NYIT B.S/D.O Program

[halfHAVOC]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Quick question : does anyone know when the deadline for applying to this program is?

also for anyone who has gotten accepted, what was your H.S GPA and SAT/ACT score ? I know they list the minimal requirement but i was just wondering where you have to be on a realistic playing field to get in this program?

Thanks.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Don't even apply. There is a huge attrition rate. Also the guarantee is pretty flimsy. A 3.5 and 27 MCAT are not so easy too achieve and if you do there are plenty of schools that would take you in. Most people don't make it through there.

 

[HH Holmes]

Don't even apply. There is a huge attrition rate. Also the guarantee is pretty flimsy. A 3.5 and 27 MCAT are not so easy too achieve and if you do there are plenty of schools that would take you in. Most people don't make it through there.

Not at all. I recently visited and know people who have went and who are currently going. A 3.5 is not hard to keep, as NYIT's classes are not crazy hard and you are mixed with regular undergrad kids. Also the MCAT score is a 26, which is challenging, but not impossible. Solid studying from Semester 1 can easily spot you a high twenties to low thirties.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Not at all. I recently visited and know people who have went and who are currently going. A 3.5 is not hard to keep, as NYIT's classes are not crazy hard and you are mixed with regular undergrad kids. Also the MCAT score is a 26, which is challenging, but not impossible. Solid studying from Semester 1 can easily spot you a high twenties to low thirties.

If I had a 26+ MCAT and a 3.5+ GPA I would not got NYCOM. It is not considered a decent DO school.

 

[ahmede19]

Its a great program for anyone who wants to be a primary care physician. you're basically guaranteed to become one!

 

[MilkmanAl]

Its a great program for anyone who wants to be a primary care physician. you're basically guaranteed to become one!

Hmmm...is that a joke? Well played, if so. Unfortunate if not.

I (personally) do not see why you would want to lock yourself into a DO program before you've even begun undergrad.

Word. (Not because it's a DO school, mind you, but because it's a combined program.)

 

[FutureCTDoc]

While I think this is arguably one of the worst dual programs in the US (high attrition, poor quality education and ridiculous requirement). Dual programs are not a bad idea. People can know that medicine is truly the path for them. If it isn't one can always leave a dual program. I disagree with the previous poster as a Dual admissions program is certainly a more sure path than applying as a traditional pre-med. NSU-COM's BS/DO, UNECOM's, LECOM's, PCOM's and WesternU all have far superior programs. All of these programs have at least as good if not better medical schools than NYCOM.

 

[MilkmanAl]

This is one of those youth vs. experience arguments that won't really ever be settled. See any of the other discussions on the subject if you're interested in detailed pros and cons. I think you'll see that the older students lean quite a lot towards encouraging the "traditional" route to getting into med school while high schoolers advocate the combined programs.

I'm using "you" in the general sense, for the record.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

This is one of those youth vs. experience arguments that won't really ever be settled. See any of the other discussions on the subject if you're interested in detailed pros and cons.

If this individual is interested they should apply they can always exit the program if they no longer wish to be a physician. It's not uncommon for a pre-med to A) not get accepted anywhere B) Get waitlisted. This even after 4 years of hard work. For an average DO school 3.45 GPA and a 27 MCAT for the average MD a 3.55 GPA and a 31 MCAT. A 27 is a full SD from the mean, 31 2 and 1/3 SDs out. If you get into a dual program by all means go. I know several grads of dual programs who consider it the brightest decision they made. These programs include BU, Penn State/JMC, NEOUCOM and UMKC. These attending physicians range in age from mid 40s to late 50s, there is your experience. They have gone onto highly successful careers at Dartmouth as a professor, WVU as a professor, ophthalmic sub-specialties and radiology. These people decided at 17 to commit to a life in medicine. Honestly I don't believe a 21 year old is greatly different in many respects from a 17 year old making the same decision.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Honestly I don't believe a 21 year old is greatly different in many respects from a 17 year old making the same decision.

You might when you're 21. 😉

 

[FutureCTDoc]

I don't know why you are so opposed to these programs. However it is better to do this than to risk the pre-med route. As I previously stated out of the attending physicians I know who did dual programs 2 BU, 3 PSU/JMC, 1 NEOUCOM and 1 UMKC grad who are all mid-career it was the best choice they made. You have still failed to give a reason why dual programs are poor choices. My program is a 4+4 with a lot of latitude in course selection, credit transfer, ability to study abroad, etc. Some programs are more rigid, but don't throw the baby with the bathwater.

 

[VMSmith]

Honestly I don't believe a 21 year old is greatly different in many respects from a 17 year old making the same decision.

I used to think the same thing when I was 17.

Then when I was 21, I realized I was wrong. But then I thought there wasn't much difference between a 21 year old and a 25 year old in terms of decision making.

And then when I was 25, I realized I was wrong again.

You'll be surprised by what a huge difference just a few years can make.

For the OP (and anyone else with a similar decision): I would strongly recommend against locking yourself into a DO program before attending college. No matter what other premeds (and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year med students) might tell you, it does make a difference in terms of residency matching. Yes, you can do (insert specialty here) as a DO, but some specialties are harder to match into as a DO and certain high-powered institutions have biases against DO applicants. There are exceptions to this rule, of course, and people are always quick to point them out.

But remember, they are exceptions and not the rule.

Leave as many doors open at every step of the way as possible.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

I used to think the same thing when I was 17.

Then when I was 21, I realized I was wrong. But then I thought there wasn't much difference between a 21 year old and a 25 year old in terms of decision making.

And then when I was 25, I realized I was wrong again.

You'll be surprised by what a huge difference just a few years can make.

For the OP (and anyone else with a similar decision): I would strongly recommend against locking yourself into a DO program before attending college. No matter what other premeds (and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year med students) might tell you, it does make a difference in terms of residency matching. Yes, you can do (insert specialty here) as a DO, but some specialties are harder to match into as a DO and certain high-powered institutions have biases against DO applicants. There are exceptions to this rule, of course, and people are always quick to point them out.

But remember, they are exceptions and not the rule.

Leave as many doors open at every step of the way as possible.

There is always the option to apply to other med schools including MD programs. Honestly you can use your program as a safety school and btw while it may be more difficult to match allo derm, we have our own match, just for DOs. So in reality it is of equal difficulty to match ophtho, derm or plastics and cards for fellowships.

 

[VMSmith]

However it is better to do this than to risk the pre-med route.

It's only better if you don't believe you have the ability to get into a medical school, and if you're terrified of uncertainty. I advise against entering ANY program (DO or MD) that limits your future options.

It's a different story if your program allows you to enter the AAMCAS application cycle and reserves you a spot if you don't get in anywhere else. I think there are a couple BS/MD programs that allow this, for example the U of Rochester.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

It's only better if you don't believe you have the ability to get into a medical school, and if you're terrified of uncertainty. I advise against entering ANY program (DO or MD) that limits your future options.

It's a different story if your program allows you to enter the AAMCAS application cycle and reserves you a spot if you don't get in anywhere else. I think there are a couple BS/MD programs that allow this, for example the U of Rochester.

Actually most do. My BS/DO does, you can apply allo or oste and not lose your seat. This is a program specific issue and not a general one, so it is not necessarily pertinent. BTW some great med schools i.e. Brown, Northwestern, Jefferson Medical College, Albany Medical college offer it. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to being in one of those programs. It isn't bad to hedge your bets. In fact if you get accepted to these programs go for it.

 

[MilkmanAl]

You have still failed to give a reason why dual programs are poor choices.

If you want my rationale for not going into a combined program, it's all over this forum, including the the last thread we discussed this matter in.

"Hedging your bets" sounds like a good way to make sure you're doing more work than you have to. You have to make yourself qualified for the combined program, and then you have to do all the usual pre-med crap to be qualified for med schools. Applying to med school is stressful, but if all you're saving by getting into a combined program is that stress, there's no way in hell the extra pre-college effort is worthwhile.

For what it's worth, your analysis of matriculants' average MCAT scores is incorrect. The mean score for all takers is a 25.1 with a standard deviation of 6.5, so MD schools are 1 std. dev. above the mean, while DO schools hover around the 60th percentile, assuming a 27 is the correct score. A 27 isn't an easy score to achieve, but it's definitely not worth committing to medicine early so you don't have to try to hit that mark.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

If you want my rationale for not going into a combined program, it's all over this forum, including the the last thread we discussed this matter in.

"Hedging your bets" sounds like a good way to make sure you're doing more work than you have to. You have to make yourself qualified for the combined program, and then you have to do all the usual pre-med crap to be qualified for med schools. Applying to med school is stressful, but if all you're saving by getting into a combined program is that stress, there's no way in hell the extra pre-college effort is worthwhile.

For what it's worth, your analysis of matriculants' average MCAT scores is incorrect. The mean score for all takers is a 25.1 with a standard deviation of 6.5, so MD schools are 1 std. dev. above the mean, while DO schools hover around the 60th percentile, assuming a 27 is the correct score. A 27 isn't an easy score to achieve, but it's definitely not worth committing to medicine early so you don't have to try to hit that mark.

Assuming you want to go to to a decent school you need a decent GPA, you will have to work. Your analysis is actually wrong. The actual SD is 2.1-2.3. Mea culpa, I really did feel like doing research earlier as ball park figures were fine. However, your figures are off by a figure of three. I don't think you understand the concept of dual programs. There is not "more work", in fact there is less work involved. "Commiting" to medicine is not an obscene idea, in fact with the notable exceptions of the US and Canada, almost every other country uses the MBBS model where you start at 18. I suppose however some people will be leery of any work... those are the ones who really don't deserve to go into medicine. Perhaps you don't understand hedging your bets, it means having a backup which really isn't a bad idea, considering 50% of applicants will be accepted to a US MD school. BTW the average matriculant in 2008 had a 3.66 GPA with an SD of .26 and an average MCAT by section of 9.9 verbal with an SD 1.8, PS of 10.3 with an SD of 2.0, BS of 10.7 with an SD of 1.7. Considering most dual programs requirements are significantly less rigorous, you will in fact save work.

 

[MilkmanAl]

your figures are off by a figure of three.

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/admissionsadvisors/examstatistics/scaledscores/combined09.pdf

There is not "more work"

Getting into a combined program is harder than just getting into college. Meeting those requirements plus getting into med school is harder than just getting into med school.

I suppose however some people will be leery of any work... those are the ones who really don't deserve to go into medicine.

Obviously.

Perhaps you don't understand hedging your bets, it means having a backup which really isn't a bad idea

That would be why the expression is in quotes in my post above; I think your plan is a bad idea.

BTW the average matriculant in 2008 had a 3.66 GPA with an SD of .26 and an average MCAT by section of 9.9 verbal with an SD 1.8, PS of 10.3 with an SD of 2.0, BS of 10.7 with an SD of 1.7.

That's where I got the "MD schools are 1 std. dev. above the mean" comment from. I've seen the statistics. 😉

Considering most dual programs requirements are significantly less rigorous, you will in fact save work.

If you decide to stay in the program, sure. If you decide to apply out, not so much.

Again, I encourage people looking to do combined programs to look at previous threads on this issue, including the sticky at the top of this forum, before making any decisions. Note the experience levels of the people responding.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

That would be why the expression is in quotes in my post above; I think your plan is a bad idea.
That's where I got the "MD schools are 1 std. dev. above the mean" comment from. I've seen the statistics. 😉

You may have seen statistics but you don't know how to use them. You conflated subscores' SDs with the overall and calculated it that way. You need to figure out the SD for the entire test. That SD is 2.1-2.3, nowhere near 6.5, and the average is nowhere near 27, that would mean if your data was true a 33.5 would be at the 83.7th percentile. That is patently false, assuming a normal distribution. You may want to brush up on your stats. Now in reality that means MD schools are about 2-3 SDs out and DO schools 1-2 SDs out. Remember many people with a bad MCAT A) don't apply B) Apply to Foreign Med School C) Apply to Pod School. Hence you only have people at the 50th percentile plus applying. Look at the average applicant's versus matriculant's MCAT. After you have looked at that then we can have a rational discussion grounded in fact, rather than half-truths and assumptions. The same goes regarding these programs as none "lock you into life of medicine", look at the requirements for several top programs and then we can talk rationally about that as well.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Did you look at the link I posted? On the first page, it very clearly lists the mean for all MCAT takers as 25.1 with a standard deviation of 6.5. You're quoting me data regarding MD school matriculants. I'm aware that you're probably used to being more informed and driven than your peers, but the members of this forum are not your peers. Give your audience some credit. Condescension from a high schooler isn't going to go over terribly well.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Did you look at the link I posted? On the first page, it very clearly lists the mean for all MCAT takers as 25.1 with a standard deviation of 6.5. You're quoting me data regarding MD school matriculants. I'm aware that you're probably used to being more informed and driven than your peers, but the members of this forum are not your peers. Give your audience some credit. Condescension from a high schooler isn't going to go over terribly well.

BTW I'm not a high schooler😉. You are actually quite condescending and confrontational for a moderator. I'm a dual admit to medical school in college. I could go ad hominem on you and I'm certain that you wouldn't enjoy it. However if you continue to attack me I certainly will refrain no longer.

 

[schrizto]

This program doesn't sound worth it.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

This program doesn't sound worth it.

Definitely isn't if you had a 3.5, 27 MCAT, you wouldn't go to NYCOM. The point of a dual is a guaranteed acceptance, this is a fairly high bar.

 

[Handy388]

So in reality it is of equal difficulty to match ophtho, derm or plastics and cards for fellowships.

the great irony with yoru user name, is that CT or cardiothoracic surgery board actually does not recognize DO surgery training. As a result, you cannot be board certified in CT surgery if you go to a DO surgery residency.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

the great irony with yoru user name, is that CT or cardiothoracic surgery board actually does not recognize DO surgery training. As a result, you cannot be board certified in CT surgery if you go to a DO surgery residency.

What is even more ironic is it stands for Connecticut, my home state.