NYT article: How Pharmacy Work Stopped Being So Great

[RXDOC1986]

I only had two weeks of PTO when I worked for CVS. If I had unlimited PTO then I would taken a vacation every month. I don't get how this benefits the employer.

I have been in the job market for 40 years, and have never heard of unlimited PTO. Maybe a layoff, or furlough, but PTO is Paid Time Off with pay and benefits. Kind of a Unicorn Job. Any company that offers that, will not be around long. Fiscal suicide.

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[WorthlessOxygen]

I only had two weeks of PTO when I worked for CVS. If I had unlimited PTO then I would taken a vacation every month. I don't get how this benefits the employer.

You don't get it because you're taking the marketing term at face value. It doesn't generally work out the way you're picturing.

 

[mentos]

You don't get it because you're taking the marketing term at face value. It doesn't generally work out the way you're picturing.

So how would it work not at face value? I guarantee if CVS offered unlimited PTO then no one would go to work ever.

 

[RXDOC1986]

So how would it work not at face value? I guarantee if CVS offered unlimited PTO then no one would go to work ever.

AND that is why youse guys can't be trusted with unlimited PTO
That's why we can never have nice things!

Hey, I am actively looking for a company with unlimited PTO, even if I am not qualified, they won't know because I will go on the unlimited PTO immediately after hire!!!!!!!!

YES, marketing terms = bold face lies, but packaged nicely

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

So how would it work not at face value? I guarantee if CVS offered unlimited PTO then no one would go to work ever.

Unlimited = no set bank of PTO, not that you can just take off whenever you feel like. You're still responsible for making sure you meet deadlines/attend whatever meetings you really need to. It would never work with any sort of shift work.

 

[projektreverb]

I only had two weeks of PTO when I worked for CVS. If I had unlimited PTO then I would taken a vacation every month. I don't get how this benefits the employer.

So I believe this was actually studied. Employees actually tended to take less PTO overall. Asfar as assets/liabilities go, it creates less liabilities on the books since PTO is a financial liability on the books. Also, if they lay you off/you leave, company has no pto to pay out.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I only had two weeks of PTO when I worked for CVS. If I had unlimited PTO then I would taken a vacation every month. I don't get how this benefits the employer.

it generally benefits the employer when you have project mgmt type of work, not shift work like most of us do. When we are gone, they have to pay someone to fill in for us. If we do mgmt, projects, etc - they just expect the projects to get done regardless of how long it takes. So when you are on PTO, they aren't paying someone to fill in for you

 

[owlegrad]

So how would it work not at face value? I guarantee if CVS offered unlimited PTO then no one would go to work ever.

When I worked at CVS pharmacists had unlimited sick time. As far as I know no one simply didn’t go to work ever and I doubt anyone would have been allowed to do so.

 

[mentos]

So I believe this was actually studied. Employees actually tended to take less PTO overall. Asfar as assets/liabilities go, it creates less liabilities on the books since PTO is a financial liability on the books. Also, if they lay you off/you leave, company has no pto to pay out.

Suckers. This would never work in pharmacy.

 

[projektreverb]

Suckers. This would never work in pharmacy.

It wouldn’t work for shift work in general. My wife has unlimited PTO. The flip side is she never clocks out per say. I have better hours than she does.

Ironically enough I’m looking to make the junp into her world (IT) but we shall see.

 

[confettiflyer]

Unlimited PTO is common around here, but not with hourly jobs with set schedules and responsibilities (like pharmacists). Management-like jobs are going to be the target for unlimited PTO, where work needs to be done/your pay is essentially the same whether you are putting in 40 hours or 80hrs a week to support your projects.

Win-win for the employer with the reduced earned liabilities and work still “gets done” but I personally think the jury is still out on whether productivity doesn’t get hit.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Unlimited PTO is common around here, but not with hourly jobs with set schedules and responsibilities (like pharmacists). Management-like jobs are going to be the target for unlimited PTO, where work needs to be done/your pay is essentially the same whether you are putting in 40 hours or 80hrs a week to support your projects.

Win-win for the employer with the reduced earned liabilities and work still “gets done” but I personally think the jury is still out on whether productivity doesn’t get hit.

I remember reading an article, not sure how scientific of a study it was thou, that showed people in those types of jobs actually took less time off if they have unlimited time. They sort of felt guilty taking too much time, so they ended up not taking it vs if you have a allocation, especially if a use it or lose situation, you are gonna take that time.

I get 8 weeks a year, and believe me, I am going to use every last hour, but if I was in a corporate gig, honestly it would look bad if nearly every month I took a week and left on a vacation.

 

[rxdawg21]

So how would it work not at face value? I guarantee if CVS offered unlimited PTO then no one would go to work ever.

I have several close friends that have it. One is a regional director in sales and takes off quite a bit. Another is accountant manager and doesn’t take off at all during busy season. However, will take off typically 1-2 random weeks outside of busy season (one being end of this month going on vacation with us lol). This person also takes the week of thanksgiving and 2 weeks over Xmas/New Years. Good luck getting that holiday leave in majority of pharmacy jobs.

I have read through forums where companies will stop approving after 3 weeks etc (just deny then leave).

But like others have said accounting wise jt takes off liabilities off your books. And like some studies have said many employees don’t take the full benefit.

Heck at my job (federal) we now get 12 weeks paid maternity/paternity leave and we still have some peeps not take it all out of duty they feel for patients.

 

[randompharm]

You of course cherry pick anecdotes as well as me. First, I didn;t say new grads are making $72.00. I have 40 years of experience. You think the new grads are better than me?
I am not retired and not a millionaire.
Housing is in a bubble right now. It 's won't stay that way forever.
I understated the real issue is the cost of tuition. The tuition when I went to pharmacy school was about 6K on salary of 26K at 40 hours. Current tuition is 40K on a salary of 100K. It's harder for you guys to carry that nut. I fully understand that. I had deep financial struggles when I started out. The salary increase is what made me rich, just dumb luck.

Pharmacy is a field where “better” is of little relevance and is not a negotiation point, maybe in a very few unicorn positions, otherwise there’s 15,000 others that can do the same thing, hence 45-50/hr new grad salaries. 100k is also not been the norm for many years, and tuition goes up to 300k or more even, cost of living has increased significantly, pharmacy is a 0 ROI game (even those with half a brain should be able to make that out given the data available). Even 100k can’t get you housing and comfortable living in many places, despite what many who don’t earn 100k believe 100k gets you.

 

[randompharm]

Graduated 2013 public school. Tuition rose 50% my 4 years there and was triple from the class that graduated 05.

I work at va and am blessed. However, after seeing so many friends clear 150k with basic jobs they don’t excel at i think that is the gripe of most pharmacists. At the end of the day retail and staff work at a hospital is not fulfilling for most. When you see friends with bachelors and some masters in marketing, accounting, finance, sales, all catch up to you and some blow by you it stings. And except for accounting all have better work environments and work/life balance.

This. Even 2 year degrees start at 80-85k these days, that’s the same (or more) than new grad pharmacists at 45-50/hr. Going in 10 years ago was ok (even then it was questionable given the data). Today, it’s the worst ranked/projected profession, and paying 200k+ for that and 6-10 years of school is brainless.

 

[randompharm]

NO! Boomers like me did not make out well until the pharmacist shortage of the early 2000's that drove salaries up.
Starting Salary 1982: $12.50/hour
Based on Inflation: $37.50/hour
Current Salary: $72.00/hour
I purchased my house in 1986 for $150,000.00 Now worth $500,000.00 (3x) Salary increased almost 6X
Mortgage Rate 10.9% Present Mortgage: 3.75%

You also have the benefit of the run up in pharmacist salaries. I do understand the cost of your degree is significantly higher and the biggest driver of your generation's financial predicament. It was much harder for me financially back then than it is now......

Don’t even know where to start to respond to this, just…

Hope no one reading this actually holds any value to it. Today vs 35-40 years ago, and thousands of other factors, and to try and insinuate that it’s a good choice for students today? I don’t care how it was 35-40 years ago when you could use it to get out of the slums, today, pharmacy is a no ROI choice, for so many reasons including tuition (200-300k), 6-10 years of schooling, the fact that there are so many options even in healthcare where you can spend so much less time in school, much less tuition, come out making more, and have 500k in your pocket by the a pharmacist even enters the workforce. Next 10 year projections are even worse. It’s literally the worst projection profession in existence and worst ranked in healthcare.

Try leaving your current job and see how easy it is to get 70+/hr when new grad rates are 45-50 and they can do the same job as you (regardless of how much better/more qualified you are). I’m a pharmacist but let’s be realistic.

 

[RXDOC1986]

Don’t even know where to start to respond to this, just…

Hope no one reading this actually holds any value to it. Today vs 35-40 years ago, and thousands of other factors, and to try and insinuate that it’s a good choice for students today? I don’t care how it was 35-40 years ago when you could use it to get out of the slums, today, pharmacy is a no ROI choice, for so many reasons including tuition (200-300k), 6-10 years of schooling, the fact that there are so many options even in healthcare where you can spend so much less time in school, much less tuition, come out making more, and have 500k in your pocket by the a pharmacist even enters the workforce. Next 10 year projections are even worse. It’s literally the worst projection profession in existence and worst ranked in healthcare.

Try leaving your current job and see how easy it is to get 70+/hr when new grad rates are 45-50 and they can do the same job as you (regardless of how much better/more qualified you are). I’m a pharmacist but let’s be realistic.

As another Baby Boomer, reading through Old Timer's posts, I don't see any enticement to the young students to join the ranks. Just stating how it was, and how things progressed through the years for most of us. Indeed, I was fortunate (AND I worked very hard), and the profession has been very, very good to me. These were facts, cannot be disputed. But nobody is saying it's great, or even manageable now, is delusional.
If you choose to enter the pharmacy profession today (or the last 5-10 years), in the face of all the facts, I have to seriously question your intellect!
Yet, students do every year.

 

[RxPreceptor]

I've never seen so many people salty about maternity leave as I've seen in pharmacy. Y'all act like there aren't females in other professions that have kids too. If you had kids then I'm sure you'd want your wife to be at home with her newborn instead of at work.

Maternity Leave is great; I pick up so many easy extra hours (only 10 hour shifts, stacked with tech help, easy hours of day)
cake walk shifts and easy money

 

[DH1987]

In my opinion, any useful demarcation of millionaire would be where one has enough assets to not have to work and have security of food, shelter, energy, education, healthcare, and legal services. I would consider that in the $5M to $10M range.

If you're talking purely in assets, that's probably correct. You can offset a lot of this with passive income, though.

 

[PikminOC]

I've never seen so many people salty about maternity leave as I've seen in pharmacy. Y'all act like there aren't females in other professions that have kids too. If you had kids then I'm sure you'd want your wife to be at home with her newborn instead of at work.

It's the same complaint in many fields.

 

[Splenda88]

I've never seen so many people salty about maternity leave as I've seen in pharmacy. Y'all act like there aren't females in other professions that have kids too. If you had kids then I'm sure you'd want your wife to be at home with her newborn instead of at work.

Most can't afford to do that these days and it's sad. Most are working almost up to the day they give birth and come back to work a week after delivery.

 

[mentos]

Most can't afford to do that these days and it's sad. Most are working almost up to the day they give birth and come back to work a week after delivery.

Where is it common to go back to work a week after having a baby? Middle class workers have access to short term disability, PTO, company paid parental leave, and some states have paid parental leave. Also unpaid FMLA.

 

[Splenda88]

Where is it common to go back to work a week after having a baby? Middle class workers have access to short term disability, PTO, company paid parental leave, and some states have paid parental leave. Also unpaid FMLA.

I remember when I was an RN (10+ yrs ago), I saw people coming back to work right after giving birth.

 

[confettiflyer]

I remember when I was an RN (10+ yrs ago), I saw people coming back to work right after giving birth.

I think it comes down to individual organizations’ culture. Everyone at my workplace takes the maximum time off allowed, that was maybe slightly less true 10 years ago, but there was a management shift and a lot of natural turnover (and our pharmacy staff got way younger…so prime child pumping time).

I think when you’re surrounded by others (men and women) who took the time off, it’s easier vs if you are the most junior person in a sea of 40-60 year olds who have already exited their child bearing years.

 

[KidPharmD]

Where is it common to go back to work a week after having a baby? Middle class workers have access to short term disability, PTO, company paid parental leave, and some states have paid parental leave. Also unpaid FMLA.

Here.

Our short term disability is only 33% of your salary up to a maximum unless you buy up. There is no company paid or state mandated parenteral leave. While we do have a pretty generous PTO allotment, if you didn't plan more than a year in advance you may not have more than a few weeks worth of PTO to bring up to your full salary, and less so if you had to take any PTO during your pregnancy.

 

[mentos]

Here.

Our short term disability is only 33% of your salary up to a maximum unless you buy up. There is no company paid or state mandated parenteral leave. While we do have a pretty generous PTO allotment, if you didn't plan more than a year in advance you may not have more than a few weeks worth of PTO to bring up to your full salary, and less so if you had to take any PTO during your pregnancy.

Sounds like they can buy more short term disability and use PTO. Pharmacists should have plenty of savings to take unpaid time off too.

 

[storyhill2]

I am having a baby in a few months and put in for my full 12 weeks. I am a father. I figure my employer is aware of FMLA and should be prepared for these things. My family sure appreciates it and I think it is beneficial for my wife. From what I know most dad's don't take the time off because they don't want to miss out on the money. I will only have enough PTO to cover about a month and then will go 2 months without pay.

 

[confettiflyer]

I am having a baby in a few months and put in for my full 12 weeks. I am a father. I figure my employer is aware of FMLA and should be prepared for these things. My family sure appreciates it and I think it is beneficial for my wife. From what I know most dad's don't take the time off because they don't want to miss out on the money. I will only have enough PTO to cover about a month and then will go 2 months without pay.

Does your state provide any paid family leave at all?

 

[storyhill2]

Does your state provide any paid family leave at all?

no, it's up to the employer. My employer gives moms 8 weeks off with pay. Men just get to take off and not lose their job. Paternity leave has to use vacation pay until it runs out.