NYU College of Dentistry and Nursing

[groundhog]

This debate reminds me of an incident that I witnessed many years ago. I was in a Bio Prof's office when a student came in carrying an attitude about a recent exam. After a brief discussion the Prof quickly cut him off and said "well you got your B if that is all you are concerned about." The student was instantly placated by the Prof's response to his grievance. As soon as the student left, the Prof turned to one of her staff and quipped " a good mechanic is much more valuable to society than a mediocre biology major." I have always thought that that Prof was someone who actually knew how the real world functions. So, in her memory, I'll say a good nurse is more valuable to society than a medicore dentist and vice-versa.

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[datu]

This debate reminds me of an incident that I witnessed many years ago. I was in a Bio Prof's office when a student came in carrying an attitude about a recent exam. After a brief discussion the Prof quickly cut him off and said "well you got your B if that is all you are concerned about." The student was instantly placated by the Prof's response to his grievance. As soon as the student left, the Prof turned to one of her staff and quipped " a good mechanic is much more valuable to society than a mediocre biology major." I have always thought that that Prof was someone who actually knew how the real world functions. So, in her memory, I'll say a good nurse is more valuable to society than a medicore dentist and vice-versa.

Indeed. And for all of you knuckleheads who oppose this merger because of the name change, you deserve what's coming to you. While your concern is valid, the fact that you can't see the more pertinent issues at hand only helps the NYUCD administration dismiss any protest against the merger as being shallow and prestige-motivated.

I heard from someone at your school that you have until January 29th to submit your protest in writing to the Provost (who or whatever that is). You're not going to stop the merger, but at least your letter will be a tangible record that you don't accept the administration's decision in case something goes awry down the road.

So, folks, get your pens out and start writing. Think hard about why you don't agree with the merger. There are countless reasons to oppose it, and while "my degree will say nursing" is one of them, it shouldn't be the raison d'etre of your argument.

BTW, one of your classmates wrote an e-mail that was posted somewhere in this forum. You might want to start by looking at that. If you have half a brain, you'll be able to pick out a few of the other issues at play.

Show that you are intelligent enough to merit the title of "Doctor."

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

I'm too old to fight

I've given up on this whole thing and will just accept the fact that politics will always over-rule common sense.

 

[blankguy]

Rereading this thread people didn't seem to mention that there could be cost savings for NYU doing this. Also since Dental doesn't get as much support as a medical school(from what people have been alluding to some time back) there could be better to consolidate two schools into one. Do you think this is a reason? Money at work here

 

[ItsGavinC]

There's always money and politics at work, this much is for sure. This situation is no different. Common sense and decency often go out the window in lieu of money and politics.

 

[blankguy]

There's always money and politics at work, this much is for sure. This situation is no different. Common sense and decency often go out the window in lieu of money and politics.

Decency?? It's only merging the name of Dentistry and Nursing. It's really no big deal. It may irk some people but in the long run I don't see it being a big deal.

This is administrators decision using info that students don't have access to. Not to start another rumor but if the administrators saw an opportunity to support one consolidated school better than two separate schools common sense indicates merging into one. People have made a point about dental schools not getting as much support in general as medical schools plus the fact that they constantly seem to be undergoing renovation in terms of curriculum and facilities. Maybe that's why their medical school isn't involved in this at all?

 

[datu]

Maybe that's why their medical school isn't involved in this at all?

I happen to have a credible, inside source that claims NYU initially intended to merge the medical school with the nursing school, and that the meddies would have none of it.

And in fact, the merger was proposed (as I had postulated earlier) to infuse funds into a failing nursing programme. Again, the meddies didn't want any part of it.

And so they say that the students will not be impacted in any material way by the merger, but that is subject to change.

Which is why I still recommend you people at NYUCD write your administration with your complaints, just so there's a paper record that you don't agree with what's going on, if indeed you don't agree with what's going on.

But then again, you can sit back, do nothing, carry on whining, and show that NYUCD accepts the dregs of the dregs, the überdummkopfen.

So let this be an end to the discourse. Pax vobiscum et nox bonae habueritis, nunc et semper, et in secula seculorum. Amen.

 

[HuyetKiem]

Which is why I still recommend you people at NYUCD write your administration with your complaints, just so there's a paper record that you don't agree with what's going on, if indeed you don't agree with what's going on.
:

or drop out to protest this merger.

 

[datu]

or drop out to protest this merger.

Can't speak for those who have to deal with this, but I sure would consider it if I were there. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't have anywhere to turn, which makes the whole thing all the more irritating. They're taking advantage of the students.

There are a million other things that one could do besides dentistry, some better, most not nearly as good. A substantial fraction of the class would have to drop out to make waves and judging by the people in my dental school (can't imagine NYU to be all that different) many seem to be having enough trouble getting by in dentistry and I doubt they'd be able to cut it in any other field. Some are old. What to do, what to do?

At least if you write a letter of protest, you can always use that down the road to say, "Hey, I was against this." Comes in handy if the school decides to shut down, or gets into some other kind of trouble. Lessen your chances of being taken to the cleaners should something happen.

Get it? Now let's move on to other things.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

At least if you write a letter of protest, you can always use that down the road to say, "Hey, I was against this." Comes in handy if the school decides to shut down, or gets into some other kind of trouble. Lessen your chances of being taken to the cleaners should something happen.

Get it? Now let's move on to other things.

Well if they do decide to close their doors I would assume that they would graduate those currently enrolled just like those other schools that have shut down.

 

[datu]

Well if they do decide to close their doors I would assume that they would graduate those currently enrolled just like those other schools that have shut down.

NYU's become a maverick of sorts, and it wouldn't be much of a surprise if they didn't, as you say, "graduate those currently enrolled just like those other schools."

Don't put anything past them. They just might bite.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

EMERGENCY MEETING
NYSDA OPPOSES MERGER OF
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY
DENTAL AND NURSING SCHOOLS
***
Wednesday, January 19, 2005
6:00 p.m.
New York Grand Hyatt Hotel, Manhattan Ballroom
109 East 42nd Street, New York, NY, Between Lexington and Park Aves.


NYSDA (New York State Dental Association) is sponsoring an emergency meeting of all NYU College of Dentistry Alumni and students who are interested in assisting the Association in obtaining a delay to the merger of the College of Dentistry and the College of Nursing. NYSDA believes strongly that no justification for the merger has been presented, that it is based on a faulty understanding of the law, provides no benefit to the nursing program and will only serve to undermine our efforts to continue elevating the stature of dentistry within the state and nation.

NYSDA has enormous respect for the nursing profession, but rejects the notion that there is such an overlap between dental and nursing curriculum that doctors of dentistry can be trained in the same school sharing many of the same courses with nurses at the baccalaureate level.

NYSDA has enlisted the support of the ADA in its effort, but at this time, it is critical that the local communities of interest such as alumni and students make their voices heard. Please attend the meeting next Wednesday where there will be a full discussion of NYSDA’s position as well as the development of a strategy for us to educate the administration at NYU regarding the inappropriateness of merging the dental and nursing schools.

Thank you in advance for your support.

http://www.nysdental.org/news/details.cfm?ID=59

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Thank goodness we are getting some help from the outside!!!

 

[HuyetKiem]

Don't forget to email your dean this link:

http://www.case.edu/pubs/cnews/2003/12-11/dentname.htm

 

[jk5177]

sometimes I wonder if they hot box the board room during the meetings when ideas like these are created.

LOL. If they hotbox the boardroom, man I'm going !!!

 

[Tzips]

A dental degree is not a doctorate! You are called a doctor out of courtesy, but you have not achieved a doctorate-level degree. The MD, JD, DMD/DDS, OD, DO, DC are all undergraduate degrees. We call them first professional degrees, but they are still undergraduate degrees. A doctorate is earned when you have achieved the highest level of education in a field, the PhD. Don't convince yourself that title alone gives you the right to say anything! I know plenty of well-ecucated people who should not be able to exercise their right to free speech.

Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm just curious - I understand your distinction between domestic and foreign degrees (if I may use so un-politic a term), but what would, say, an MD have to do to truly become a "doctor" by these other standards - get a Ph.D.? Is there a 'doctorate of philosophy' in GP medicine? If a doctorate is what "is earned when you have achieved the highest level of education in a field," then what would one have to do to obtain said doctorate? Also, are those holding an MBBS, say in England, able to set up their own pratises, or do they need a higher degree (I guess the flip side would be, can those with MDs from an American institution practise in GB)?

Just trying to get this all straight in my head . Thanks for the help.

 

[J2AZ]

As an American MD you can not practice in Britan nor any of the commonwealth states without further training in the country in which you wish to practice. Even if you graduate from one of their schools you still need to do a one year internship before being given the right to practice in the commonwealth. However, the hard part is getting work permit in Britan, Australia, South Africa etc. I have a friend who went to medical school in Australia and received what I believe is a BSBM. After graduation he was no longer a student and could not get a work permit so in a sense the country was forcing him out. He wanted to do the extra year so that he could practice in any of the commonwealths so he got a lawyer and tied the gov up in paper work until he was done with the extra year of training and then skipped town. Today he is at Detroit Mercy doing his ER residency b/c just as the commonwealth doesnt recognize our degrees, the US will not recognize foreign medical degrees unless the holder has passed all steps of the USMLE and completed secondary training. Also some foreign countries have sites where students can go and take step I of the USMLE so that they can participate in the US matching program. Here in the states, foreign medical graduates adopt the MD. Finally, remember that most countries do not have our same educational system. We do 4 years of college followed by graduate training. Other countries set up medicine and dentistry as six year degrees straight out of high school thus the BSBM. Oh, and in Australia they refer to surgeons as Mr. and general doctors as Dr.

 

[Pikeyman]

This is another reason why people should think twice or even more about going to NYU.