NYU terminates prominent organic chemistry professor over student grievances about course difficulty

[Lost in Translation]

At N.Y.U., Students Were Failing Organic Chemistry. Who Was to Blame? (Published 2022)

Maitland Jones Jr., a respected professor, defended his standards. But students started a petition, and the university dismissed him.

www.nytimes.com

After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

[…]

“They weren’t coming to class, that’s for sure, because I can count the house,” Dr. Jones said in an interview. “They weren’t watching the videos, and they weren’t able to answer the questions.”

NYU students get chemistry teacher fired for failing class

“He hasn’t changed his style or methods in a good many years,” said former department head in interview

www.independent.co.uk

While the 85 students were a minority of the 350 class, the university offered the students – one of whom was said to have “hyperventilated” about their grades and chances of getting into medical school – the chance to withdraw from the course of have their grades reviewed, according to the report.

As a graduate from this school I find this professor’s termination troubling. Yes, several of my pre-med-hopeful colleagues struggled in Dr. Jones’ course, but they also struggled in this course when not taught by this him. He certainly had a reputation for being harsh when dealing with students directly but he never intentionally deflated grades.

It’s no secret Orgo (as we called it at NYU) is a weeder course at all undergraduate institutions. It’s a demanding subject that cannot be mastered with rote memorization. While the NYT article has a quote that I don’t fully agree with about not being a good physician if you don’t understand molecular transformations (because we don’t really need to know atomic reactions), I do agree that not being able to understand acid-base relationships and not being able to learn a completely abstract topic like Orgo can predict your future success as a doctor. Orgo teaches you to study differently, and in med school you’ll be doing so in spades. If you can’t handle a two-semester long course, you’re going to have a bad time in med school.

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[Princeton Medical Student]

I had a bad time with orgo (not with Jones but with that crazy German prof) at this school and just generally at NYU as a whole and so far medical school has been a far better experience where I am not treated like yet another student but rather am supported like an adult.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

orgo is useless in medicine. all you need to know is where H+ goes. no one will ever ask you the molecular mechanism of anything in medicine. even pharm in med school is not chemistry based.

 

[Tryhj11]

At N.Y.U., Students Were Failing Organic Chemistry. Who Was to Blame? (Published 2022)

Maitland Jones Jr., a respected professor, defended his standards. But students started a petition, and the university dismissed him.

www.nytimes.com

NYU students get chemistry teacher fired for failing class

“He hasn’t changed his style or methods in a good many years,” said former department head in interview

www.independent.co.uk

As a graduate from this school I find this professor’s termination troubling. Yes, several of my pre-med-hopeful colleagues struggled in Dr. Jones’ course, but they also struggled in this course when not taught by this him. He certainly had a reputation for being harsh when dealing with students directly but he never intentionally deflated grades.

It’s no secret Orgo (as we called it at NYU) is a weeder course at all undergraduate institutions. It’s a demanding subject that cannot be mastered with rote memorization. While the NYT article has a quote that I don’t fully agree with about not being a good physician if you don’t understand molecular transformations (because we don’t really need to know atomic reactions), I do agree that not being able to understand acid-base relationships and not being able to learn a completely abstract topic like Orgo can predict your future success as a doctor. Orgo teaches you to study differently, and in med school you’ll be doing so in spades. If you can’t handle a two-semester long course, you’re going to have a bad time in med school.

The problem is not Orgo in itself but the unreasonable expectations that some professors have set for this course, and the fact that it is poorly taught for the most part. Case in point, as a non-trad, I took Orgo I at a specific school. I studied, did the assignments etc. and I got an A, owing in part to better study habits that I’ve developed compared to my undergrad years. On the other hand, I had to take Orgo II at another school, and it was an ultimate **** show. Again, I’m far removed from undergrad (educated at the master’s level and above) and thought that my Orgo II class was crap to say the least. No amount of studying could have improved my grade in that course yet the material was not “harder” than what I learned in Orgo I. In fact, the professor would try to cover so much material in each lecture so there was little chance of it been thoroughly explained. Instead, what I received was an inordinate amount of material that was poorly presented, and hours of homework every week. Giving students a sh*tload of material/work does not equate to academic rigor. It’s nothing more than an abuse of power/authority and I only hope that this is a wake up call for other incompetent professors who want to “show” themselves in their Organic chemistry courses.

 

[Lost in Translation]

In fact, the professor would try to cover so much material in each lecture so there was little chance of it been thoroughly explained.

Welcome to MS1 year.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Welcome to MS1 year.

Far more enjoyable, supportive and relaxed then NYU orgo.

 

[Goro]

orgo is useless in medicine. all you need to know is where H+ goes. no one will ever ask you the molecular mechanism of anything in medicine. even pharm in med school is not chemistry based.

That's irrelevant to the case at hand. The whole purpose of organic chemistry is to weed out people who can't handle different difficult Concepts

The professor was on a continual 1-year contract. He was not fired so much as he wasn't renewed for his next year. What I find troubling that even in the age of Zoom when he has a class average of 30% on an exam, that says the problem is not with the class but with the professor

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

That's irrelevant to the case at hand. The whole purpose of organic chemistry is to weed out people who can't handle different difficult Concepts

The professor was on a continual 1-year contract. He was not fired so much as he wasn't renewed for his next year. What I find troubling that even in the age of Zoom when he has a class average of 30% on an exam, that says the problem is not with the class but with the professor

Tbh, MCAT is a much better test to weed out people, but then there’s this whole PC thing around it… or everyone should take a clown class to see who gets weeded out..

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Don’t go to nyu as a premed

 

[doomer_md]

When you realized you should have gone to a grade-inflating Ivy. 😡😡😡

On a practical note I think I’m going to start Karening anything that doesn’t go my way. Seems to be paying dividends for everyone else.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

When you realized you should have gone to a grade-inflating Ivy. 😡😡😡

On a practical note I think I’m going to start Karening anything that doesn’t go my way. Seems to be paying dividends for everyone else.

I mean I went to a grade inflating Ivy but I would say that the average Ivy leaguer is more intelligent than the average NYUer (I know a bunch of both) so it’s not really a fair comparison

 

[throwaway198773]

I mean I went to a grade inflating Ivy but I would say that the average Ivy leaguer is more intelligent than the average NYUer (I know a bunch of both) so it’s not really a fair comparison

source: "I know a bunch of both"

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

It’s a demanding subject that cannot be mastered with rote memorization.

I thought that was all orgo (at least at the undergrad level) was about; I just treated it like a job and spent ~30 hours/week on it. Got me a B+. Thought all the other students just had much better memories than I did, and I made up the difference with hard work.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

source: "I know a bunch of both"

I mean NYU isn’t really considered an elite undergrad school. For actual medical school, yes, but I would rate it at the level of BC, BU, USC etc.

 

[Lost in Translation]

I mean NYU isn’t really considered an elite undergrad school. For actual medical school, yes, but I would rate it at the level of BC, BU, USC etc.

Just because NYU’s med school demands elite stats doesn’t make it “elite” just the same as it not being an “Ivy” doesn’t make it a lower tiered school. It’s certainly better than BU. Don’t get hung up on numbers.

I thought that was all orgo (at least at the undergrad level) was about; I just treated it like a job and spent ~30 hours/week on it. Got me a B+. Thought all the other students just had much better memories than I did, and I made up the difference with hard work.

I still remember spending entire Sundays in the business school classrooms (that had whiteboards spanning all 4 walls) pushing electrons in ketone and acid/base reactions. I first used examples from the textbook to make sure I understood the basic concepts but at some point I’m pretty sure I started making up my own molecular reactions to work through and sent them to the TAs to make sure I was going them right as a sort of test to gauge my understanding of the reaction.

 

[throwaway198773]

I mean NYU isn’t really considered an elite undergrad school. For actual medical school, yes, but I would rate it at the level of BC, BU, USC etc.

I was mocking your point about the students intelligence, not the “eliteness” of the school. I don’t make personal ratings for schools and you probably shouldn’t either lol.

Generalizing the average intelligence of the student bodies based on a “bunch” of people you know and whether or not it holds Ivy League status is incredibly naive.

Edit: especially when you include yourself in the “Ivy league” group. Reads like a headline from The Onion.

 

[eigen]

I thought that was all orgo (at least at the undergrad level) was about; I just treated it like a job and spent ~30 hours/week on it. Got me a B+. Thought all the other students just had much better memories than I did, and I made up the difference with hard work.

Memorization is a very inefficient strategy for organic. Are there a handful of things you need to memorize? Sure. It's an empirical science.

But OChem is all about pattern recognition, and using basic principles to predict behavior on untested systems based on those empirical results. It's also about being able to pull together disparate pieces of information and synthesize it into a cohesive picture. And about non-linear problem solving.

My experience has been that people who try to memorize their way to success for OChem are the ones who think it's a brutal, soul-sucking course.

 

[Doctoscope]

I mean NYU isn’t really considered an elite undergrad school. For actual medical school, yes, but I would rate it at the level of BC, BU, USC etc.

Bro no offense but don't you ever get tired of talking about the prestige of XYZ on every other post lol.

 

[Doctoscope]

I'm not familiar with how things work at NYU, but I was looking into this story the last few days and it seems like the prof has been problematic for years and this was the straw that broke the camel's back (all based on anecdotes I've read online though). It doesn't look like this is simply Karen students demanding A's and getting a prof fired for it.

 

[eteshoe]

I had some tough ochem profs but once I figured the basic principles, electron pushing, etc - it was quite manageable... I was also a chemical engineering & biochem double major so it definitely wasn't the worst class. Thermo was waaay worst lol

 

[LunaOri]

I had some tough ochem profs but once I figured the basic principles, electron pushing, etc - it was quite manageable... I was also a chemical engineering & biochem double major so it definitely wasn't the worst class. Thermo was waaay worst lol

Nooo! Thermo was fun! It made sense.

 

[fd25]

I really didn’t want to get involved in this convo, but I think a lot of people are making strong assumptions on all of this without firsthand experience.

I can understand why people would start (falsely) making claims that these students are being oversensitive, but this is 100% not the case.

I took Jones’ class several years ago (pre-pandemic) at NYU. I scraped by with a B in orgo I by absolutely dedicating blood, sweat, and tears to the course. The following semester, despite giving my all, pursuing office hours, TA help sessions, tutoring, and studying countless hours a week, I had to drop. This was after trying to have a discussion with Jones about where I stood in the course and seeking other methods to improve. He was incredibly, incredibly dismissive, and told me he would decide the curve at the end of the course. He told me if I’m putting time in then he doesn’t know what else to suggest, implying that hey, if you’re not smart enough then so be it. That seems to be the sentiment of a lot of other people speaking on this issue online as well.

I withdrew from the course and got an A when I took it with another professor. I also scored a 131 on chem/phys on the MCAT (the “great equalizer,” right?)

Those of you suggesting that NYU kids can’t cut it I think are speaking out of turn. Im sure there ARE students who haven’t put the work in and who are just blaming the professor. There are students like that in every undergrad course at every institution. In my mind, his issue is not the rigor but rather lack of transparency and condescension.

The final and very important point I want to make is that not one single person who signed the petition was requesting that Jones be fired. They were simply trying to shed light on an issue that wasn’t been addressed by the profesor himself. If the university fired him, then I strongly believe there were many other issues going on that we simply don’t know about.


I think the idea that people on here are trying to make this about “ivy” vs non-ivy is absolutely bonkers and elitist. Literally who cares. You can get an awesome education anywhere if you really want to.

This situation only further demonstrates to me how important it is to not draw conclusions about people/something without having firsthand knowledge or experience.

 

[deleted1141182]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but based on my own personal experience in O chem people who said the professor was "unfair" just didn't have it in them to study and work hard enough to do well. You don't even have to be passionate about organic chemistry to do well in it; there are many well-established study habits that can help people succeed in o chem without a modicum of interest in the subject.

I can't help but feel skeptical that this professor was truly malicious in the way he graded students. Students exaggerate all the time, especially with regard to class difficulty.

 

[fd25]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but based on my own personal experience in O chem people who said the professor was "unfair" just didn't have it in them to study and work hard enough to do well. You don't even have to be passionate about organic chemistry to do well in it; there are many well-established study habits that can help people succeed in o chem without a modicum of interest in the subject.

I can't help but feel skeptical that this professor was truly malicious in the way he graded students. Students exaggerate all the time, especially with regard to class difficulty.

Yes I agree that this happens plenty. The point of my entire anecdote was to show that that is not at all an absolute. I put the hard work in every step of the way, and I know many classmates did too. And if I didn’t have it in me to put in the work and do well, I don’t think I would have been successful with another professor or on the MCAT.

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

O chem has always been difficult. What a bunch of woke students

 

[eigen]

O chem has always been difficult. What a bunch of woke students

I'm really starting to hope you're a parody account.

 

[doomer_md]

I withdrew from the course and got an A when I took it with another professor. I also scored a 131 on chem/phys on the MCAT (the “great equalizer,” right?)

Considering how sparsely organic chemistry is tested on the MCAT, not really.

 

[fd25]

Considering how sparsely organic chemistry is tested on the MCAT, not really.

My point is in response to people trying to claim that those who had a problem with this professor simply did not have the work ethic or study skills to be successful. A strong MCAT score doesn’t accidentally fall into your lap. You earn it.

I do not see eye to eye with many of those who did not experience this first hand, and that’s totally fine. I’m just offering another perspective.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

How to Get Into NYU: Requirements and Strategies — Shemmassian Academic Consulting

Discover the NYU acceptance rate and requirements, plus a sample essay to boost your NYU admissions odds

www.shemmassianconsulting.com

The average SAT score for incoming NYU freshmen is 1550 and the average ACT is a 33. If these students can't understand the material, it probably is this professor's fault. The students may not attend the lectures because the lectures stink.

I would like to know why people who are paying $60,000 per year in tuition are getting an 82 year old adjunct professor for one of the most important classes they might take. That just stinks.

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

How to Get Into NYU: Requirements and Strategies — Shemmassian Academic Consulting

Discover the NYU acceptance rate and requirements, plus a sample essay to boost your NYU admissions odds

www.shemmassianconsulting.com

The average SAT score for incoming NYU freshmen is 1550 and the average ACT is a 33. If these students can't understand the material, it probably is this professor's fault. The students may not attend the lectures because the lectures stink.

I would like to know why people who are paying $60,000 per year in tuition are getting an 82 year old adjunct professor for one of the most important classes they might take. That just stinks.

No one deserves an A because they had a high SAT or ACT score. Just because they are paying an outrageous amount for tuition, does not buy them an A.

The ageist claim that an 82 year old can't teach is concerning. Should all doctors be required to retire before age 80?

 

[dnyal]

Organic chemistry is hard both to learn and to teach. So, I don’t see why everyone is divided in this topic. It could be very well be that the professor didn’t have the best attitude and many of his students felt entitled. Those aren’t mutually exclusive things.

My OC professor at a community college had a very unorthodox approach to the topic. He said live lecturing was useless, since organic chemistry had too much content and was so hard to grasp intuitively at first. So, he recorded lectures so we could watch them as many times as we needed to and instead combined his lecture hours with his office hours so we could go and ask him about what we didn’t get in the lecture recordings. Then he gave us long and difficult assignments as homework so we’d be forced to go to office hours, as he would pretty much explain to you there the problem and basically give you the answer. The exams had an in-class component and a take-home component. The in-class exams were like 30-40 brutal questions, mostly conceptual, to be completed in 50 min. The take-home portion, we had 48 hrs to complete and was mostly synthesis reactions and MR stuff. He challenged us to find the answers on Google; they were nowhere to be found. He told us his purpose was to get to know both how much information we could understand and learn with the in-class exam and how much we could “think” with the write-in take-home portion (we had to show the steps for every reaction). The take-home exam was always the lowest class score despite being open book and having 48 hrs to turn it in online.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

No one deserves an A because they had a high SAT or ACT score. Just because they are paying an outrageous amount for tuition, does not buy them an A.

The ageist claim that an 82 year old can't teach is concerning. Should all doctors be required to retire before age 80?

If I were a golf pro, charged $300 per lesson and had a bunch of major college second basemen and point guards as pupils, I would consider myself an abject failure if those students couldn't break 90 by the end of summer. If a professor has talented and motivated students, it's on the professor to see the students succeed. If not, why are the students paying him or her? I have four academic degrees and after taking about 110 courses I know that some faculty are clear, concise, motivated and happy to see their students succeed. I also know that there are a lot of professors who are incompetent jerks who get a big thrill from bullying their students. If you were foolish enough to go to law school, you'd see that clearly.

All commercial airline pilots are required to retire at age 65. There is simply no question that people lose some mph on their cognitive fastball as they age.

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

If I were a golf pro, charged $300 per lesson and had a bunch of major college second basemen and point guards as pupils, I would consider myself an abject failure if those students couldn't break 90 by the end of summer. If a professor has talented and motivated students, it's on the professor to see the students succeed. If not, why are the students paying him or her? I have four academic degrees and after taking about 110 courses I know that some faculty are clear, concise, motivated and happy to see their students succeed. I also know that there are a lot of professors who are incompetent jerks who get a big thrill from bullying their students. If you were foolish enough to go to law school, you'd see that clearly.

All commercial airline pilots are required to retire at age 65. There is simply no question that people lose some mph on their cognitive fastball as they age.

I like your no nonsense posts. You clearly are an extremely talented man.

 

[throwaway198773]

I like your no nonsense posts. You clearly are an extremely talented man. But... perhaps you have not had to work with this new generation of entitlement. It is a different world on some campuses where the loud entitled students are coddled. Primarily in the expensive high tuition schools.

Have to disagree on the age issue. Outside of ER and surgery, doctors don't need to make split second decisions like pilots.

You're mischaracterizing the story to support your argument that the students are entitled and just complaining that the class was too hard. Have you read more than the headline?

The students petitioned to make the class more transparent, return online access to lectures and acknowledge the condescension that seemed to be notorious with this professor. The administration is responsible here for firing him without due process, how can you blame it on 85 students who sought to make the class more accessible?

I graduated from NYU, Jones was notorious not only for being an incredibly hard tester but also for being an ***hole. If this problem is still occurring, YEARS after I left, is he not the common denominator? Or is every NYU student who has taken Orgo over the last 15 years just an entitled, coddled child?

 

[snooper]

In all fairness, the NYT article isn't quite accurate, or so it seems.

Editorial: The NYTimes article on NYU & Maitland Jones was incomplete.

The New York Times published an article about the firing of Maitland Jones Jr., a renowned professor. The article, however, gravely misrepresented NYU students.

nyunews.com

 

[throwaway198773]

I like your no nonsense posts. You clearly are an extremely talented man. But... perhaps you have not had to work with this new generation of entitlement. It is a different world on some campuses where the loud entitled students are coddled. Primarily in the expensive high tuition schools.

Have to disagree on the age issue. Outside of ER and surgery, doctors don't need to make split second decisions like pilots.

In all fairness, the NYT article isn't quite accurate, or so it seems.

Editorial: The NYTimes article on NYU & Maitland Jones was incomplete.

The New York Times published an article about the firing of Maitland Jones Jr., a renowned professor. The article, however, gravely misrepresented NYU students.

nyunews.com

"There are dozens of comments across social media warning students about taking Jones’ class dating back more than a decade. WSN also accessed student evaluation records for courses taught by Jones, which showed that his scores had been consistently low for years — long before the spring 2022 student petition. In the past five years, Jones’ co-professors teaching the same course typically had scores around or above 4.0 on a 5.0 scale, while Jones averaged around 3.3."

 

[deleted1065184]

He's basically an adjunct, the only reason anybody cares is bc he used to teach at Princeton...which is probably the only reason NYU signed him anyway. Weed-out classes are stupid and don't make better physicians, so there's literally no value in a professor making a class exceptionally difficult, refusing to update his teaching methods for a new generation of learners, and generally treating them poorly.

Imo orgo should not be required for admission (argue with your mother, if A&P and genetics aren't required, orgo sure af shouldn't be). And if you are gonna require it, there should be a premed orgo course that is taught as a 10,000 mile overview of orgo concepts.

Lastly, the dude retired from Princeton so he was not dependent on money from NYU to survive, he'll be fine. They're really trying to paint this story as being about bratty youth bullying a sweet old man, but it's really about a crappy adjunct professor refusing to update his archaic methods, getting terrible student outcomes, and being fired as a result. The fact that this made major headlines is wild imo.

 

[Goro]

Imo orgo should not be required for admission (argue with your mother, if A&P and genetics aren't required, orgo sure af shouldn't be). And if you are gonna require it, there should be a premed orgo course that is taught as a 10,000 mile overview of orgo concepts.

If you scroll through MSAR lately, you'll see that the classic pre-reqs have become "recommended" more and more, especially over the past decade.

Some interesting commentary here:

ElectoralVote

Track the election with a red/blue map of the US updated daily using the latest state polls.

electoral-vote.com

 

[eigen]

If you scroll through MSAR lately, you'll see that the classic pre-reqs have become "recommended" more and more, especially over the past decade.

Indeed, and it's always been fascinating to me to see how much evolution of changes in pre-reqs is geographically driven. For example, the west coast schools often seem to be first to scale down requirements (Stanford and OHSU, for instance, have no explicit coursework prereqs anymore).

I've seen an increasing trend of moving from "two semesters of organic" to "a semester of organic + a semester of biochemistry" and I think that's a good balance. As someone who teaches both organic and biochemistry, the prospect of teaching biochemistry to students with no organic background is horrifying.

But, it's pretty workable to re-order the typical organic content so the first semester focuses on structure, properties, and carbonyl reactions + substitutions, and a lot of schools already teach it that way. It gives students the critical background they need for biochemistry, and then the second semester course can focus more on synthetic organic chemistry.

 

[doomer_md]

In all fairness, the NYT article isn't quite accurate, or so it seems.

Editorial: The NYTimes article on NYU & Maitland Jones was incomplete.

The New York Times published an article about the firing of Maitland Jones Jr., a renowned professor. The article, however, gravely misrepresented NYU students.

nyunews.com

The petition these students wrote was 11 pages lmao. They could’ve raised their grade by a letter if they spent that time studying.

I’ve taken plenty of courses by professors with terrible ratings on ratemyprofessor with ratings in below 2/5. Most of them weren’t even hard or even that “condescending.”

 

[Round786]

If you scroll through MSAR lately, you'll see that the classic pre-reqs have become "recommended" more and more, especially over the past decade.

Some interesting commentary here:

ElectoralVote

Track the election with a red/blue map of the US updated daily using the latest state polls.

electoral-vote.com

What does this mean for pre-meds down the road? Will it evolve into a situation where certain courses are no longer explicitly required, but the courses are practically required since the most competitive applicants would have completed the courses regardless of whether school lists them as required or not. Sorta like how research is heading?

 

[Goro]

What does this mean for pre-meds down the road? Will it evolve into a situation where certain courses are no longer explicitly required, but the courses are practically required since the most competitive applicants would have completed the courses regardless of whether school lists them as required or not. Sorta like how research is heading?

Recommended means recommended.

And pre-meds will still have to take coursework to prepare them for the MCAT

Med schools will still likely want scientifically savvy candidates but who are very well rounded in humanistic domains.

 

[throwaway198773]

The petition these students wrote was 11 pages lmao. They could’ve raised their grade by a letter if they spent that time studying.

I’ve taken plenty of courses by professors with terrible ratings on ratemyprofessor with ratings in below 2/5. Most of them weren’t even hard or even that “condescending.”

If you think the time it takes a large group of students to write 11 pages is equal to the time it takes to raise your grade by a letter you either 1. Have not taken orgo or 2. Are an incredibly slow writer.

And thank you for your input with another completely subjective anecdote that doesn’t make any sense. Congrats on taking those classes, but it adds nothing to your argument.

 

[doomer_md]

If you think the time it takes a large group of students to write 11 pages is equal to the time it takes to raise your grade by a letter you either 1. Have not taken orgo or 2. Are an incredibly slow writer.

And thank you for your input with another completely subjective anecdote that doesn’t make any sense. Congrats on taking those classes, but it adds nothing to your argument.

The Declaration of Independence was only one page long. I find it hard to believe that one professor or one course can be so terrible to warrant an overly-pedantic petition. It’s pathetic. I can’t write 2 pages outlining everything wrong I think is wrong in the world right now.

I have taken organic 2. It was several years ago, but I remember I hardly even listened to the professor because the lectures were so early that I slept through them a lot. One of them hardly taught the class, and was more of a motivation speaker than anything. Still got As in both org 1 and 2.

You seem to have no problems with another anecdote defending those students. Why is her anecdote valid? Did you help write the petition?

 

[Goro]

The Declaration of Independence was only one page long. I find it hard to believe that one professor or one course can be so terrible to warrant an overly-pedantic petition. It’s pathetic. I can’t write 2 pages outlining everything wrong I think is wrong in the world right now.

I have taken organic 2. It was several years ago, but I remember I hardly even listened to the professor because the lectures were so early that I slept through them a lot. One of them hardly taught the class, and was more of a motivation speaker than anything. Still got As in both org 1 and 2.

You seem to have no problems with another anecdote defending those students. Why is her anecdote valid? Did you help write the petition?

A 30% class exam average is a sign of a bad professor

 

[doomer_md]

A 30% class exam average is a sign of a bad professor

From the articles I’ve read that was just one midterm during online classes. There’s also clearly students that do well in the class.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Class avg of 30? So nobody got A's in this class? If no one did, then I think the Prof is the problem. Someone had to master the material. I had 200 start out Pre Med in my class and 17 took the Mcat. Sure, Organic has lots of material and concepts. It's often the most difficult course a pre med will take. It was one of the weed out courses at my school. The students do sound a little whiny when in their petition they complained he didn't offer extra credit. When the Gen Z's get wind that they can get a professor fired, it's going to get ugly.

 

[throwaway198773]

The Declaration of Independence was only one page long. I find it hard to believe that one professor or one course can be so terrible to warrant an overly-pedantic petition. It’s pathetic. I can’t write 2 pages outlining everything wrong I think is wrong in the world right now.

I have taken organic 2. It was several years ago, but I remember I hardly even listened to the professor because the lectures were so early that I slept through them a lot. One of them hardly taught the class, and was more of a motivation speaker than anything. Still got As in both org 1 and 2.

You seem to have no problems with another anecdote defending those students. Why is her anecdote valid? Did you help write the petition?

The anecdote I defended is from an NYU student who took the class with THAT professor.

You are a random person on the internet lol. If it doesn’t compute to you how that’s different than you have bigger issues.

No I did not help write the petition, that’s an odd statement to make. The reason I’m defending the anecdote is because I went to NYU and have experienced this professor.

Congrats on getting A’s in Orgo. Again, it’s not relevant and literally does not support your point.

 

[throwaway198773]

The Declaration of Independence was only one page long. I find it hard to believe that one professor or one course can be so terrible to warrant an overly-pedantic petition. It’s pathetic. I can’t write 2 pages outlining everything wrong I think is wrong in the world right now.

I have taken organic 2. It was several years ago, but I remember I hardly even listened to the professor because the lectures were so early that I slept through them a lot. One of them hardly taught the class, and was more of a motivation speaker than anything. Still got As in both org 1 and 2.

You seem to have no problems with another anecdote defending those students. Why is her anecdote valid? Did you help write the petition?

If that’s your experience in orgo, I seriously question the rigor of your class.

 

[doomer_md]

The anecdote I defended is from an NYU student who took the class with THAT professor.

You are a random person on the internet lol. If it doesn’t compute to you how that’s different than you have bigger issues.

No I did not help write the petition, that’s an odd statement to make. The reason I’m defending the anecdote is because I went to NYU and have experienced this professor.

Congrats on getting A’s in Orgo. Again, it’s not relevant and literally does not support your point.

Oh so you’re just mad you didn’t get handed the grade you wanted. Tough luck. There’s plenty of students that defend him too. Even the premed subreddit has NYU students defending him.

If that’s your experience in orgo, I seriously question the rigor of your class.

And I question these students’ intelligence if they’re scoring 30s on exams.