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Just a suggestion that people chill.
NYU terminates prominent organic chemistry professor over student grievances about course difficulty
- Thread starter Lost in Translation
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I’m pretty neutral on whether Mait needed to be let go or not, but I strongly disagree with this comment.
It potentially indicates a problem, but in and of itself doesn’t really say anything deterministic. Making a diagnosis of cause off a single data point isn’t a good practice, especially for evaluating complex issues like teaching effectiveness.
For one, there are legitimate pedagogical uses of low exam averages and curving to help tease apart performance at the top end of the class. I took classes in undergrad where negative points on an exam could still be a B (upper level math classes) but the instructor was great and the classes were well designed.
For another, class performance isn’t just on the professor. Students have to put in time to learn, including reading the book and coming to class. This last Spring was a particularly hard semester for that across many campuses for undergraduates.
Especially for organic during last springs class, a 30% average on the first midterm would not have shocked me at all.
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throwaway198773
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No I’m not mad. Although your right I wasn’t handed the grade I wanted, I earned the grade I got and was proud of it. I did well in his class, so if you’re assuming I’m one of his students who complained that it was too hard, you’re wrong.
My whole point is that you are making assumptions based off of a 1 page article you read. While I have literal first hand experience with this professor.
Having a class average of 30 on multiple exams over a long period of time is problematic for many reasons. My defensiveness stems from your immediate reaction of blaming the students for being lazy, maybe there is more to the story than what you can read in an article?
Edit: regardless, we can agree to disagree. I am going to take Goro’s advice to chill and discontinue this argument. I understand your point but I’ve been disappointed with the poor reporting on this entire situation. Labeling NYU students as lazy and whiny is reductive and based on misleading information. This is a professor with over a decade long track record of being an ***hole. So to see the public (who know nothing about the real situation) blame 85 students for his firing is a bit infuriating. Goodnight and goodbye.
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I have a comparison between me and a friend at a different university. Both of us took Organic Chemistry and both are Pre-med.
For me: The way that the professor taught the course was incredible. On the first day, he explicitly said that Orgo should not be a weed-out course, and that he's not "expecting" people to fail. His class wasn't easy; in fact, it's probably one of the hardest courses ever (as organic chemistry probably is for most pre-meds). He was always open to questions and encouraged team-based learning, including my university's peer tutoring system. If you went to office hours, he'd write your name down for future reference so he knew EXACTLY what each student needed throughout the course. He was passionate about making sure his students didn't just memorize the material, but rather truly understood it. (For example, each student bought this ball and stick model molecular set that we used during exams and practice problems to help us visualize what was going on). He was also consistently receptive to feedback from students and emphasized clear communication of the class expectations. The average for the course ended up being a B+, across like 80-100 students. He has a near perfect rating on ratemyprofessor for all the years he's taught. And the end of the course, all of us stood up and gave a standing ovation and cheered for him for like a solid 5 minutes (not exaggerating).
For my friend: According to them, the professor didn't help students at all. Her class averages were consistently 35-40% across the board. She didn't help them with anything, wasn't receptive to feedback at all. Dismissed all student concerns as well. (I think she went on probation after that year, but I might be misremembering). Half of the students failed the course, and my friend (who is a whiz at chemistry) ended up with a B- (the ONLY grade that they had throughout university that was less than an A).
From these two examples, I think that a professor can make or break orgo. The content is hard, but if taught the right way, most (if not all) students can succeed (as long as they put in the work and effort to do so). I'm not saying the NYU professor necessarily shouldn't have been renewed (I didn't go to NYU so I don't know how much it differed from my university), but if there were consistent problems throughout the years, then perhaps some action should've been taken. That's just my 32 cents though
For me: The way that the professor taught the course was incredible. On the first day, he explicitly said that Orgo should not be a weed-out course, and that he's not "expecting" people to fail. His class wasn't easy; in fact, it's probably one of the hardest courses ever (as organic chemistry probably is for most pre-meds). He was always open to questions and encouraged team-based learning, including my university's peer tutoring system. If you went to office hours, he'd write your name down for future reference so he knew EXACTLY what each student needed throughout the course. He was passionate about making sure his students didn't just memorize the material, but rather truly understood it. (For example, each student bought this ball and stick model molecular set that we used during exams and practice problems to help us visualize what was going on). He was also consistently receptive to feedback from students and emphasized clear communication of the class expectations. The average for the course ended up being a B+, across like 80-100 students. He has a near perfect rating on ratemyprofessor for all the years he's taught. And the end of the course, all of us stood up and gave a standing ovation and cheered for him for like a solid 5 minutes (not exaggerating).
For my friend: According to them, the professor didn't help students at all. Her class averages were consistently 35-40% across the board. She didn't help them with anything, wasn't receptive to feedback at all. Dismissed all student concerns as well. (I think she went on probation after that year, but I might be misremembering). Half of the students failed the course, and my friend (who is a whiz at chemistry) ended up with a B- (the ONLY grade that they had throughout university that was less than an A).
From these two examples, I think that a professor can make or break orgo. The content is hard, but if taught the right way, most (if not all) students can succeed (as long as they put in the work and effort to do so). I'm not saying the NYU professor necessarily shouldn't have been renewed (I didn't go to NYU so I don't know how much it differed from my university), but if there were consistent problems throughout the years, then perhaps some action should've been taken. That's just my 32 cents though
