NYU tuition free

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Had to check to make sure it wasn't April. Best of luck to anyone who gets accepted, and hopefully they can pay it forward!

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Harvard Medical School vs NYU Medical school (with free tuition).... I think the obvious and clear choice would be NYU.
 
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Harvard Medical School vs NYU Medical school (with free tuition).... I think the obvious and clear choice would be NYU.

Idk, I'm sure there's plenty of people who wouldn't be able to say no to the name Harvard. For me though I agree it would be an easy decision with NYU. Really, almost any school on my list that gave me a full ride would be an easy decision.
 
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Idk, I'm sure there's plenty of people who wouldn't be able to say no to the name Harvard. For me though I agree it would be an easy decision with NYU. Really, almost any school on my list that gave me a full ride would be an easy decision.
Pretty sure 99% of people would choose NYU. Guess Christmas came early this year for some.
 
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Pretty sure 99% of people would choose NYU. Guess Christmas came early this year for some.

I've browsed the school x vs y forums and seen otherwise lol, it wasn't necessarily Harvard but I've seen plenty of people choose the small prestige boost over full ride. Although I guess you have a point in this case NYU has both the prestige and the full ride so it's not the same.
 
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Yea, it's interesting that CCLCM doesn't have anyone going into FM!

CCLCM Class of 2018 Match Results

I agree that NYU is better known for the university name recognition, but I disagree with your implication that it's not a "really top school." Honestly a lot of this is CCLCM's own fault for almost intentionally hiding its program, but if you take a closer look their students match like a top 5 medical school (I would argue stronger than NYU). Not to mention it's affiliated with the #2 hospital in the country. None of this is to discredit NYU, but they simply weren't first.

But also, this idea that reducing cost of medical education will magically encourage people to pursue primary care is a joke. The only way to encourage people to go into primary care is to make it a more compelling proposition (better lifestyle, compensation, etc). You can see it in CCLCM's match list and no doubt NYU's match list will be specialty heavy for years to come.

I don't think CCLCM is the best comparison as it is basically a program that is in-between a traditional MD and a MSTP MD/PhD. Its mission is to produce physician-scientists and physician-investigators. NYU's mission is to produce physicians. Obviously I am somewhat generalizing as many NYU grads are probably headed down a heavy research path. But pretty much all of CCLCM's grads are going down the research path long term. With that in consideration, it kinda makes sense that CCLCM doesn't have anybody matching primary care.
 
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You guys are also severely underestimating Harvard (and other top schools for that matter) in giving aid. After this, COA will only lower at other top schools. They simply have no choice but to compete otherwise they risk losing top applicants...such is the beauty of capitalism and competitive markets.
 
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I don't think CCLCM is the best comparison as it is basically a program that is in-between a traditional MD and a MSTP MD/PhD. Its mission is to produce physician-scientists and physician-investigators. NYU's mission is to produce physicians. Obviously I am somewhat generalizing as many NYU grads are probably headed down a heavy research path. But pretty much all of CCLCM's grads are going down the research path long term. With that in consideration, it kinda makes sense that CCLCM doesn't have anybody matching primary care.

Although I think the point of the
You guys are also severely underestimating Harvard (and other top schools for that matter) in giving aid. After this, COA will only lower at other top schools. They simply have no choice but to compete otherwise they risk losing top applicants...such is the beauty of capitalism and competitive markets.

True, I feel like if anyone was able to give free tuition then harvard would be it. I doubt they're lacking in donors/funds. For that matter most top programs could probably pull it off.
 
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Just found an even worse feeling than being a recent grad of NYU.

One of my former fellow scribes got accepted to NYU, but matriculated at U Chicago instead this year.....
 
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I don't think CCLCM is the best comparison as it is basically a program that is in-between a traditional MD and a MSTP MD/PhD. Its mission is to produce physician-scientists and physician-investigators. NYU's mission is to produce physicians. Obviously I am somewhat generalizing as many NYU grads are probably headed down a heavy research path. But pretty much all of CCLCM's grads are going down the research path long term. With that in consideration, it kinda makes sense that CCLCM doesn't have anybody matching primary care.
That's a fair point -- CCLCM is certainly a more niche program, but it's still a MD program (not a dual-degree program) whose goal seems to be to train clinicians who are good investigators as opposed to researchers who happen to be clinicians (like MSTP). That's why I think it's a fair comparison to make, especially since it is associated with a clinical powerhouse (CCF) and because NYU is very a much an academic-focused medical school whose graduates will be pursuing similar career paths.

I am also very skeptical of this dramatically changing the landscape of medical education financing. Perhaps other schools will try to compete, but the reality is there are already many schools who flat out refuse to match scholarships from other institutions regardless of their pedigree (Yale comes to mind). I very much doubt Harvard will have any difficulty recruiting top students for full-price regardless of what NYU does with their tuition. And this isn't just because people value lay prestige more than they should; it's because another top medical school has been doing this for a decade and it hasn't dramatically reshaped the landscape. Though it could be argued it has led to the gradual change of more generous scholarships that we are seeing over time.
 
That's a fair point -- CCLCM is certainly a more niche program, but it's still a MD program (not a dual-degree program) whose goal seems to be to train clinicians who are good investigators as opposed to researchers who happen to be clinicians (like MSTP). That's why I think it's a fair comparison to make, especially since it is associated with a clinical powerhouse (CCF) and because NYU is very a much an academic-focused medical school whose graduates will be pursuing similar career paths.

I am also very skeptical of this dramatically changing the landscape of medical education financing. Perhaps other schools will try to compete, but the reality is there are already many schools who flat out refuse to match scholarships from other institutions regardless of their pedigree (Yale comes to mind). I very much doubt Harvard will have any difficulty recruiting top students for full-price regardless of what NYU does with their tuition. And this isn't just because people value lay prestige more than they should; it's because another top medical school has been doing this for a decade and it hasn't dramatically reshaped the landscape. Though it could be argued it has led to the gradual change of more generous scholarships that we are seeing over time.

CCLCM has a class size of 32 so it's limited in its ability to snatch top applicants from the waiting jaws of Harvard/Hopkins/Stanford. It's also in Cleveland.

NYU has a class size of 132 and is based in the far more desirable location of New York City. It is also ranked far more highly than CCLCM. Further, NYU appeals to applicants who don't want academic medicine as a career; CCLCM doesn't have that same pull.
 
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That's a fair point -- CCLCM is certainly a more niche program, but it's still a MD program (not a dual-degree program) whose goal seems to be to train clinicians who are good investigators as opposed to researchers who happen to be clinicians (like MSTP). That's why I think it's a fair comparison to make, especially since it is associated with a clinical powerhouse (CCF) and because NYU is very a much an academic-focused medical school whose graduates will be pursuing similar career paths.

CCLCM has a class size of 32 so it's limited in its ability to snatch top applicants from the waiting jaws of Harvard/Hopkins/Stanford. It's also in Cleveland.

Keep in mind that CCLCM is a 5-year program so it's not exactly a fair comparison and a lot of their students also get cost of living covered which is huge. So longer but more money. I think the Geffen scholarship is a better comparison although it doesn't apply to the whole student body.
 
stats wise I am at their level and I have very good service with underserved and tons of research although I am very average (I was told in the past by you and LizzyM that I have the minimum amount that is considered okay) when it comes to clinical volunteering/shadowing

tbh though, now that they are giving full rides to everyone Im guessing it'll get even more competitive so not sure how much of a chance I'll have but it's worth a shot to spend the extra 40 dollars now

on that note my bank account is looking very sad right now, I have now applied to 4 more schools than i intended initially although having FAP has helped a ton, luckily I got a job that pays more for the upcoming semester to make up for it haha
If you of their caliber, then by all means go for it. U Penn will take you if NYU won't
 
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Idk, I'm sure there's plenty of people who wouldn't be able to say no to the name Harvard. For me though I agree it would be an easy decision with NYU. Really, almost any school on my list that gave me a full ride would be an easy decision.

Pretty sure 99% of people would choose NYU. Guess Christmas came early this year for some.

I think that a lot of people make decisions based on factors other than money such as family, location, and their career goals. If their career goal is to match at MGH and to become a Harvard doctor, then Harvard is gonna be the best way to do it. If they want to go into academia, pedigree does matter and no matter what US News says, NYU is no Harvard. But this money does tilt the balance a bit.

Also, keep in mind that the kind of students we're talking about who are going to be getting into these schools are going to have a lot of schools after them (more likely than not) and so they will be considering scholarships as well. So while NYU is giving free tuition to 100% of its class, the calculus is different for each individual student who might have full-ride offers elsewhere as well. It may be more difficult to choose when you're talking about Penn giving you a full ride or UChicago.
 
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CCLCM has a class size of 32 so it's limited in its ability to snatch top applicants from the waiting jaws of Harvard/Hopkins/Stanford. It's also in Cleveland.

NYU has a class size of 132 and is based in the far more desirable location of New York City. It is also ranked far more highly than CCLCM. Further, NYU appeals to applicants who don't want academic medicine as a career; CCLCM doesn't have that same pull.

Lol CCLCM isn’t even ranked by US News, and NYU wasn’t even in the top 10 until this year. What are you talking about? They are peer institutions by any measure — match lists, stats, academic pedigree, etc. Location has no bearing on school caliber. And CCLCM’s associated hospital is far more highly ranked than NYU’s hospital.

I do agree that NYU is more broadly appealing to students not interested in academics. But frankly these top schools funnel most of their grads into academics anyway.
 
That's a fair point -- CCLCM is certainly a more niche program, but it's still a MD program (not a dual-degree program) whose goal seems to be to train clinicians who are good investigators as opposed to researchers who happen to be clinicians (like MSTP). That's why I think it's a fair comparison to make, especially since it is associated with a clinical powerhouse (CCF) and because NYU is very a much an academic-focused medical school whose graduates will be pursuing similar career paths.

I am also very skeptical of this dramatically changing the landscape of medical education financing. Perhaps other schools will try to compete, but the reality is there are already many schools who flat out refuse to match scholarships from other institutions regardless of their pedigree (Yale comes to mind). I very much doubt Harvard will have any difficulty recruiting top students for full-price regardless of what NYU does with their tuition. And this isn't just because people value lay prestige more than they should; it's because another top medical school has been doing this for a decade and it hasn't dramatically reshaped the landscape. Though it could be argued it has led to the gradual change of more generous scholarships that we are seeing over time.

CCLCM has a class size of 32 so it's limited in its ability to snatch top applicants from the waiting jaws of Harvard/Hopkins/Stanford. It's also in Cleveland.

NYU has a class size of 132 and is based in the far more desirable location of New York City. It is also ranked far more highly than CCLCM. Further, NYU appeals to applicants who don't want academic medicine as a career; CCLCM doesn't have that same pull.

Lol CCLCM isn’t even ranked by US News, and NYU wasn’t even in the top 10 until this year. What are you talking about? They are peer institutions by any measure — match lists, stats, academic pedigree, etc. Location has no bearing on school caliber. And CCLCM’s associated hospital is far more highly ranked than NYU’s hospital.

I do agree that NYU is more broadly appealing to students not interested in academics. But frankly these top schools funnel most of their grads into academics anyway.

I think we all make some fair points but I argue strongly the fact that CCLCM is NOT a "normal" medical school. Even though it is a MD-only granting institution (though many of their students get an "auto" MS for the fifth year of full-time research) and so is NYU, they are not really comparable.

CCLCM is a small, very niche, specialized program that attracts a specific type of MD applicant (I would know, it is my top choice school and I have done in-depth research into the school and have concluded pretty clearly that its different than other schools, even top 20 or top 10). Sure NYU might also recruit a similar type of applicant (because of its status as a research powerhouse) but the fact remains that NYU also attracts a type of applicant that doesn't meet CCLCM's mission. To summarize: all CCLCM students can be NYU-material in terms of competitiveness, fit, future prospects, etc but not all NYU students can be CCLCM material.

That is why I think CCLCM isn't a good comparison for this recent financial move by NYU. CCLCM is too small, niche, and relatively unknown compared to NYU to be in the same category. NYU represents a high tier of a typical medical school; I don't think the CCLCM qualifies under the same category. NYU making education tuition-free is a HUGE step in my opinion, though I also have some reservations about how exactly it will affect the financial situation at top 10-20 schools.
 
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Im curious to see what competition this brings
 
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Also, to bring up a point barely being addressed: we are resorting to these hypothetical full-tuition Harvard vs. no tuition NYU examples. The real world isn't that clear cut. One could argue that there are two ends of the applicant spectrum:

On one end is all applicants that come from a very-wealthy background for which cost probably doesn't matter much (if at all). For them, Harvard is probably a no-brainer, even for paying full-tuition (as they probably wouldn't get any aid).

On the other end is your SES disadvantaged applicant that is extremely competitive in terms of MD applications but doesn't have any financial support to help with medical school tuition. If they get into Harvard or Stanford or Yale or wherever, those schools still have excellent financial aid. They might not get all tuition covered but maybe they get half-tuition or some significant chunk taken care of by the school. That brings all those schools a lot closer to NYU when it comes to choosing a school at the end of the day.

What I think this means moving forward is that middle-class applicants that get into NYU and other top 10-20 schools will be more likely to choose NYU then upper or lower-class students that are in a similar situation.

All in all, I somewhat agree with people that think that this isn't going to drastically change anything for other top schools and their financial offerings. Sure we might see some more initiatives to increase financial and/or merit aid but all in all, it would still be very hard (and maybe impossible) for schools to start up full-tuition programs for their entire classes immediately.
 
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Just to preface: I think this is absolutely amazing news and I hope it starts a trend towards more schools acting the same way.

At the same time however, people are somewhat underestimating how much financial aid other "top" schools already give out. At my school (Stanford), any student that qualifies for $1 of financial aid has their parental contributions matched by the school up to to $21,000/year (1/3 tuition) automatically. On top of this, full-tuition scholarships are given to roughly 1/5 of the class based on need.

At Stanford specifically, every student also gets ~$65,000 in guaranteed funding to fund 5 quarters of research - you end up making considerable money if you do research over MS1 summer and your research year (or doing it part-time in-quarter), which again, helps defray tuition considerably. And on top of that, 50%+ of students end up TAing at some point, as the school purposely overpays medical students to give another opportunity to reduce COA - a 10 hour/week commitment (in reality, much less than that) gets you $11k a quarter ($44k/year). None of this is the same as full tuition for everyone (which is absolutely better), but it does close the gap significantly.

I was accepted to both NYU and Stanford last cycle (and HMS too for what its worth). While both are great schools and this will absolutely help NYU's yield rate, I don't really think this would have changed my decision personally. The difference in COA between the two schools even with full tuition at NYU would have ended up being < $100k (instead of NYU being considerably more expensive), and based on what I was personally looking for and my impressions of both schools (which again, are still both absolutely amazing schools), this would still have been an acceptable premium to attend the school I really ended up being sold on and felt I would be the most happy at. It would definitely have made the decision closer, but I think people are also overestimating how much this news would have changed the decisions of many people who took acceptances at HMS/Stanford/JHU/Penn w/o full tuition etc. over NYU last cycle.
 
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I was accepted to both NYU and Stanford last cycle (and HMS too for what its worth). While both are great schools and this will absolutely help NYU's yield rate, I don't really think this would have changed my decision personally. The difference in COA between the two schools even with full tuition at NYU would have ended up being < $100k (instead of NYU being considerably more expensive), and based on what I was personally looking for and my impressions of both schools (which again, are still both absolutely amazing schools), this would still have been an acceptable premium to attend the school I really ended up being sold on and felt I would be the most happy at. It would definitely have made the decision closer, but I think people are also overestimating how much this news would have changed the decisions of many people who took acceptances at HMS/Stanford/JHU/Penn w/o full tuition etc. over NYU last cycle.

This is an important point that I think is missed by many on this thread. Factors other than money are deciding factors here for students at these schools, especially since these same students are likely getting similar scholarships to attend the other schools.
 
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If I can give any of you guys advice, is to take the free ride or cheapest school you got into if cost are $50k+ different. You can try to convince yourself that paying an extra 100k to go to Stanford or X school is worth it, but it's not. Your post residency 32 yo self will thank you for having less loans since most of you have no clue what real life taxes and bills are.

NYU just became one of the most competitive medical schools in the country. All of these "top 50" schools are going to have to start chipping into their endowments to offer free rides.
 
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This is an important point that I think is missed by many on this thread. Factors other than money are deciding factors here for students at these schools, especially since these same students are likely getting similar scholarships to attend the other schools.

I think you are severely overestimating how many people get full rides or significant tuition discounts. To offer a full ride for all students, this is a game changer and a much needed one as tuition is out of control for medical schools. Taking out $250k and then go into low paying specialty while living in a hcol city is a death sentence.
 
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pretty much. Data shows that after 500 MCAT majority of people pass med school fine. Stat inflation is not a reflection of anything besides supply and demand. Schools can demand stupid high stats just because.

the thing is tho..i definitely want doctors that are more than "passed just fine".. i want more like "got A+ with ease" so they can actually spend time understanding the nuances of human body instead of being too exhausted to do anything after trying very hard just to memorize the facts in the books
 
the thing is tho..i definitely want doctors that are more than "passed just fine".. i want more like "got A+ with ease" so they can actually spend time understanding the nuances of human body instead of being too exhausted to do anything after trying very hard just to memorize the facts in the books
Sounds like you have a rosy and unrealistic expectation of physicians! Not to mention the predictive power of MCAT/GPA.
 
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I think we all make some fair points but I argue strongly the fact that CCLCM is NOT a "normal" medical school. Even though it is a MD-only granting institution (though many of their students get an "auto" MS for the fifth year of full-time research) and so is NYU, they are not really comparable.

CCLCM is a small, very niche, specialized program that attracts a specific type of MD applicant (I would know, it is my top choice school and I have done in-depth research into the school and have concluded pretty clearly that its different than other schools, even top 20 or top 10). Sure NYU might also recruit a similar type of applicant (because of its status as a research powerhouse) but the fact remains that NYU also attracts a type of applicant that doesn't meet CCLCM's mission. To summarize: all CCLCM students can be NYU-material in terms of competitiveness, fit, future prospects, etc but not all NYU students can be CCLCM material.

That is why I think CCLCM isn't a good comparison for this recent financial move by NYU. CCLCM is too small, niche, and relatively unknown compared to NYU to be in the same category. NYU represents a high tier of a typical medical school; I don't think the CCLCM qualifies under the same category. NYU making education tuition-free is a HUGE step in my opinion, though I also have some reservations about how exactly it will affect the financial situation at top 10-20 schools.
I don’t disagree. I’m just pushing back on this notion that NYU is the first top tier school to do this when CCLCM has been doing it for a decade, and despite being a top school, hasn’t fundamentally changed the landscape of medical education financing.

People at CCLCM also probably turn down Harvard/Stanford every year but again, this hasn’t had a huge impact. This notion that NYU is about to single-handedly change everything is a clever PR move but not grounded in reality.
 
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Only on SDN could a basically universally good thing — school taking away debt for hundreds of students and hundreds more to come — spark a debate lol
 
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Only on SDN could a basically universally good thing — school taking away debt for hundreds of students and hundreds more to come — spark a debate lol
At least I think those who are from a wealthy background (plenty of upper-middle class for top 20 schools) can afford to pay their tuitions.
 
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More importantly, do y'all think US Snooze Rankings are gonna have NYU top Harvard?
 
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After changing the methodology.
I think that may say more about the inadequacy of the old methodology than school. Clearly, if they felt the need to change the methodology, it wasn’t a proper reflection of the “reality” of medical school rankings. I’d trust the new rank over the old.
 
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My very naive analysis of this-NYU has already been trending towards the top and becoming more selective by the year. Along with other top medical schools being more generous towards their med students, this is a strong power move to the top. A tuition free medical education would probably decrease future class sizes. Compounded with the fact that NYU is already very selective they will get the top of the top. However, this could be a positive move forward if the top 20 schools follow suit therefore actually making an impactful change on the cost of medical school education as a whole.
 
I think you are severely overestimating how many people get full rides or significant tuition discounts. To offer a full ride for all students, this is a game changer and a much needed one as tuition is out of control for medical schools. Taking out $250k and then go into low paying specialty while living in a hcol city is a death sentence.

Within the realm of top tier schools, which NYU definitely belongs to lately and plans to firmly stay in, I disagree. Most of the people I talked to in my entering class received at least one full tuition (or close to it) scholarship somewhere. I received two (although not at the school I committed to).

At almost all of the very top tier schools, 20%~ of the entering class are routinely given full tuition scholarships. As I posted above, while the school I went to is need-based, the definition of "need" turned out to be much broader than I expected - Stanford gave full tuition scholarships to 22% of incoming students last year (actual statistic told to us), with everyone in the remaining 78% that qualified for $1 in aid getting anywhere from 1/3 tuition to 90% tuition (the max grant before full tuition). Schools that gave out merit aid like Penn also gave out a comparative number of purely merit-based full tuition scholarships (20%~), and also gave considerable need-based aid on top of this as well.

The COA at NYU used to astronomically high compared to other schools they now rank alongside on USNews. Here are the average indebtness of graduates at comparable schools as per USNews:
  • Stanford: $96,327
  • Harvard: $105,389
  • JHU: $109,692
  • Penn: $117,677
  • UCSF: $138,024
  • NYU: $171,908

NYU had to do something if they wanted to actually be competitive with those schools beyond how they appear on USNews. This definitely makes them, but even with full tuition the gap is still a lot closer than you might think. In addition to what other comparable schools already offer in terms of aid, NYU still is in NYC - I live in one of the most expensive places on earth (Palo Alto), and despite NYU heavily subsidizing housing for medical students, only pay half of what I would have had to pay in rent had I went to NYU instead.

I unquestionably think this is a huge deal and a great thing, and will affect people's decisions. At the same time though, I don't know if I would characterize it exactly as a game changer given the level of aid given out at other top tier schools, and feel people are somewhat overinflating the impact that this will have at these schools.
 
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Within the realm of top tier schools, which NYU definitely belongs to lately and plans to firmly stay in, I disagree. Most of the people I talked to in my entering class received at least one full tuition (or close to it) scholarship somewhere. I received two (although not at the school I committed to).

At almost all of the very top tier schools, 20%~ of the entering class are routinely given full tuition scholarships. As I posted above, while the school I went to is need-based, the definition of "need" turned out to be much broader than I expected - Stanford gave full tuition scholarships to 22% of incoming students last year (actual statistic told to us), with everyone in the remaining 78% that qualified for $1 in aid getting anywhere from 1/3 tuition to 90% tuition (the max grant before full tuition). Schools that gave out merit aid like Penn also gave out a comparative number of purely merit-based full tuition scholarships (20%~), and also gave considerable need-based aid on top of this as well.

The COA at NYU used to astronomically high compared to other schools they now rank alongside on USNews. Here are the average indebtness of graduates at comparable schools as per USNews:
  • Stanford: $96,327
  • Harvard: $105,389
  • JHU: $109,692
  • Penn: $117,677
  • UCSF: $138,024
  • NYU: $171,908

NYU had to do something if they wanted to actually be competitive with those schools beyond how they appear on USNews. This definitely makes them, but even with full tuition the gap is still a lot closer than you might think. In addition to what other comparable schools already offer in terms of aid, NYU still is in NYC - I live in one of the most expensive places on earth (Palo Alto), and despite NYU heavily subsidizing housing for medical students, only pay half of what I would have had to pay in rent had I went to NYU instead.

I unquestionably think this is a huge deal and a great thing, and will affect people's decisions. At the same time though, I don't know if I would characterize it exactly as a game changer given the level of aid given out at other top tier schools, and feel people are somewhat overinflating the impact that this will have at these schools.
Do you know if this funding includes a stipend and subsidized housing? If so, the impact of living in NYC would be largely mitigated.
 
Do you know if this funding includes a stipend and subsidized housing? If so, the impact of living in NYC would be largely mitigated.

NYU has their own housing for medical students that they already subsidize by an incredible amount. Its not exactly what I would describe as nice and is 3 students per apartment, but is very cheap relative to normal NYC prices. However, it's still expensive relative to many other places - I don't even want to think about what housing would cost if you had to rent your own place in NYC to go there.
 
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NYU has their own housing for medical students that they already subsidize by an incredible amount. Its not exactly what I would describe as nice and is 3 students per apartment, but is very cheap relative to normal NYC prices. However, it's still expensive relative to many other places - I don't even want to think about what housing would cost if you had to rent your own place in NYC to go there.

Just wanted to point out this isn't completely accurate. We have 2-, 3-, and 4- bedroom apartments, all of which are priced about the same per person, available in 2 separate buildings. They also have more expensive single studios for those who want/are married.
 
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Sounds like you have a rosy and unrealistic expectation of physicians! Not to mention the predictive power of MCAT/GPA.

Looking back that was an embarrassing, poorly-executed statement i made so please allow me to try again and hopefully I can convey my point better this time

I agree an above average person can probably learn to work up chest pain "just fine" given proper training, heck an NP with an online degree can do it and if you run studies, many are already done, to evaluate the outcome; alas p<0.05, statistically comparable to physicians! But some schools expect more than that from their students, they hope some of their students can gain insights into the medical sciences and one day maybe produce some small advances, and we do as a society need some people to achieve this. I honestly would not expect those to be who complain about how hard orgo II is or struggle to grapple what the fourth question of each passage on MCAT is actually asking. Now, do we need the entire student body at all of the top20 medical schools to be at this level? probably not. And why does every top50 institution aspire to become a research powerhouse? I don't know. What I am sure is, high stats people have a meaningful niche in this ecosystem and some schools chase after them for legit reasons. Regarding MCAT score as pass/fail is rather ignorant and over-simplistic a view towards the complexity of science/medicine. Such views are counterproductive and in my opinion, echoes the dangerous trend of anti-intellectualism in American culture.

I know sdn isn't a political forum and the last sentence is quite out of place but I wanted to say it because it's really been bothering me and i feel some connection to the people on here.
 
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Looking back that was an embarrassing, poorly-executed statement i made so please allow me to try again and hopefully I can convey my point better this time

I agree an above average person can probably learn to work up chest pain "just fine" given proper training, heck an NP with an online degree can do it and if you run studies, many are already done, to evaluate the outcome; alas p<0.05, statistically comparable to physicians! But some schools expect more than that from their students, they hope some of their students can gain insights into the medical sciences and one day maybe produce some small advances, and we do as a society need some people to achieve this. I honestly would not expect those to be who complain about how hard orgo II is or struggle to grapple what the fourth question of each passage on MCAT is actually asking. Now, do we need the entire student body at all of the top20 medical schools to be at this level? probably not. And why does every top50 institution aspire to become a research powerhouse? I don't know. What I am sure is, high stats people have a meaningful niche in this ecosystem and some schools chase after them for legit reasons. Regarding MCAT score as pass/fail is rather ignorant and over-simplistic a view towards the complexity of science/medicine. Such views are counterproductive and in my opinion, echoes the dangerous trend of anti-intellectualism in American culture.

I know sdn isn't a political forum and the last sentence is quite out of place but I wanted to say it because it's really been bothering me and i feel some connection to the people on here.
I always find it odd that this site plays such a huge emphasis on US News rankings, whose methodology gives stat-hungry schools a huge edge, but at the same time tries to advocate for less emphasis on having high stats for admission. I agree with you that the average MCAT score is probably sufficient to gauge who would be qualified to become an average physician, but the future leaders in medicine (e.g., research, policy, practice) are less likely to come from this average group.

The reality is that everyone here has their own biases and they try to reframe their opinions as facts. People here who chose to spend a to of money on "higher ranked" schools naturally emphasize the importance of prestige. People who love NYU were the first ones to defend their rise in the rankings and overplay the significance of this tuition announcement. And having participated on this site for a few years, I've definitely noticed a trend where certain schools are placed on a pedestal while others are denigrated for no other reason that personal bias.
 
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Best scenario, all top schools start to do 0 tuitions to compete with NYU.
Even better if this lead to ALL med schools having free tuition. Though the world will end before that happens.
 
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Even better if this lead to ALL med schools having free tuition. Though the world will end before that happens.
imagine trying to convince California Northstate to waive their tuition
 
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Just to preface: I think this is absolutely amazing news and I hope it starts a trend towards more schools acting the same way.

At the same time however, people are somewhat underestimating how much financial aid other "top" schools already give out. At my school (Stanford), any student that qualifies for $1 of financial aid has their parental contributions matched by the school up to to $21,000/year (1/3 tuition) automatically. On top of this, full-tuition scholarships are given to roughly 1/5 of the class based on need.

At Stanford specifically, every student also gets ~$65,000 in guaranteed funding to fund 5 quarters of research - you end up making considerable money if you do research over MS1 summer and your research year (or doing it part-time in-quarter), which again, helps defray tuition considerably. And on top of that, 50%+ of students end up TAing at some point, as the school purposely overpays medical students to give another opportunity to reduce COA - a 10 hour/week commitment (in reality, much less than that) gets you $11k a quarter ($44k/year). None of this is the same as full tuition for everyone (which is absolutely better), but it does close the gap significantly.

I was accepted to both NYU and Stanford last cycle (and HMS too for what its worth). While both are great schools and this will absolutely help NYU's yield rate, I don't really think this would have changed my decision personally. The difference in COA between the two schools even with full tuition at NYU would have ended up being < $100k (instead of NYU being considerably more expensive), and based on what I was personally looking for and my impressions of both schools (which again, are still both absolutely amazing schools), this would still have been an acceptable premium to attend the school I really ended up being sold on and felt I would be the most happy at. It would definitely have made the decision closer, but I think people are also overestimating how much this news would have changed the decisions of many people who took acceptances at HMS/Stanford/JHU/Penn w/o full tuition etc. over NYU last cycle.

I agree with a lot of what you have written, but there is a very power and easy psychological advantage that NYU now has:
Free tuition. That's all you have to say.

Every pre-med in the US is going to hear about this.

It's a lot more nuanced to find out about how generous schools are with their financial aid packages


imagine trying to convince California Northstate to waive their tuition
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I think you are severely overestimating how many people get full rides or significant tuition discounts. To offer a full ride for all students, this is a game changer and a much needed one as tuition is out of control for medical schools. Taking out $250k and then go into low paying specialty while living in a hcol city is a death sentence.

Oh for sure it is a game changer. No doubt about that. But for a significant number of people who are competitive for NYU, they will be competitive for scholarships elsewhere as well. I had multiple full-tuition offers from places in the top 20 and I didn't even get into NYU. It won't be everyone by a long shot but it's still a significant number to consider.
 
Where I think this will actually have a bigger effect is waitlist movement. The type of applicant who gets into NYU directly (no waitlist) has a decent chance of receiving a scholarship from another top 25 school. At that point, NYU needs to attract the student based on the merits of their program (curriculum, location, etc.). Besides location, there isn't much to distinguish it from other top 25 schools. And I don't care what US News says; there is an insignificant difference in reputation between schools that reside in the top 25 (with maybe the exception of Harvard).

However, waitlist movement could potentially become a lot more interesting, as students accepted off the waitlist at NYU are on average less likely to have as many scholarships from other schools. This could dramatically increase the yield of NYU's waitlist acceptances, as those students now have free tuition at a top school while they are holding on to acceptances from other top tier schools without scholarship or mid-tiers with a scholarship.
 
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I'm personally not a fan of the excessive fetishization of Harvard's brand name, but it's hard to deny it exists and has a powerful influence on people's decision-making process.
 
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Literally a 100th percentile MCAT(average is 521) and a 4.0 (median is 3.92)
Yeah - even a 4.0/525 double major in biomedical engineering and astrophysics with Peace Corps service and two first author papers might have a tough time, no?
 
Do you have an NYU caliber app? If not, they don't need the money. Take your SO out for dinner instead.
What is an "NYU caliber app"? I have heard that it is a cut above even a Harvard caliber app: 3.9+/523+, preferably 525+, with insane, out-of-this-world ECs like Olympic medalist, combat veteran, or first-author Nature/Science/Cell paper?
 
What stats/ECs did you have? Of course you had 3.9+/523+, maybe from a big-name school...but what were your ECs like? Peace Corps or military service? First-author paper, maybe in a big journal like Nature/Science/Cell? Unusual life story...like daughter of Kyrgyzstani yak herders, or Chechen refugee, or Paralympic gold medalist?
 
What stats/ECs did you have? Of course you had 3.9+/523+, maybe from a big-name school...but what were your ECs like? Peace Corps or military service? First-author paper, maybe in a big journal like Nature/Science/Cell? Unusual life story...like daughter of Kyrgyzstani yak herders, or Chechen refugee, or Paralympic gold medalist?

Why are you like this lol
 
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