NYU vs. Kaiser Permanente

[greymandude]

I have narrowed down my choices to these 2 awesome schools! Super lucky (obviously) to have these choices, but this is proving to be a much more difficult decision than I anticipated. I have very little "gut feeling" about either school.

Both schools have global health opportunities, awesome faculty, early experience in hospitals, mentoring societies, and a bunch of other things in common. I tried to mention only the distinguishing pros and cons between the two. I will be a great doctor at both, financially I will be fine, facilities at both are world class, both are adventures in their own way and I will explore and make friends at both. But there are still some distinctions!

I am recently married and unsure about specialty, possibly ortho. Completely unsure what to do. That's why I'm asking you all. I am 55% NYU and 45% KP at the moment and have no clue what to decide. Any input at all is helpful, seriously anything!


NYU
Pros

• Full Tuition. Cost of attendance will be about 24k a year for me. I anticipate having to take out 30K in loans each year to cover my wife and I's expenses
• Established and on the rise. NYU is doing great things as an institution. I am interested in ortho (for now), and I will match into competitive specialties easier than Kaiser, not to say I can't at Kaiser.
• Guaranteed subsidized student housing. I know this contributes to a community feel and building friendships with my classmates. I know in undergrad it was great living in dorms for interacting with other students.
• Housing location relative to the student housing. Being able to walk to campus and most of my clinical experiences is awesome. I love the way the hospitals are set up with Bellevue, Tisch, Kimmel, VA, Langone, all the NYU buildings are walkable, like the rest of NYC!
• The adventure of living in NYC. The food, city life, diversity, cultural experiences. I've been on the west coast my whole life and am intrigued by living on the east coast. Not completely sold on it, but it does excite me to think about. Tangentially, weekend trips across the east coast excite me too! Visiting NJ, Carolinas, Vermont, Maine, Pennsylvania is all easier from NYC.
• Location within NYC. Midtown Manhattan is awesome. The location within the city is far enough from a ridiculously busy pace, but still in a place that I can enjoy a full NYC experience. I can definitely explore NYC to the fullest.
• More students. More people in my social group that will be my own age (or similar) will be good for social life. Having upperclassmen will provide mentorship and more social interaction!
• Dual Degree Program. I am not completely decided because it would add a year, but an MD/MBA would be super cool and interests me a lot. Stern MBA is even more alluring. MPH in 4 years is also really enticing.
• Intramurals and clubs. Already established and the larger student population means more chances to do things like play basketball with peers and find a club that interests me.
• Orthopedics. NYU Langone is a killer orthopedic institution. I will have world-class mentors to learn from and I will access as much ortho research as I want.
• Non-mandatory classes. Many things, including lectures, are not mandatory at NYU. Meaning I will be able to take a day off when I need. Or take many, many days off if I want to. Especially pertinent to me as this means I will be able to enjoy NYC with my wife when we feel the need. Taking a lunch to go to a sick food place seems like a fun option to have.
• Testing. Testing every two weeks means every other weekend is off.
• Curriculum. Seems to have flexiblity within lectures while still incorporating newer innovations in education. They are pretty strong in being progressive as far as medical education goes and I expect them to be attentive to what works and what doesn't.
• Matching. I am not sold on living in NYC for the next 10 years, but say I get there and love it, 3 year MD that fast tracks you into an NYU residency is a greeeeaaat option. Regardless, the NYU name will carry more weight for residency than Kaiser will. Notwithstanding that fact, I think I will stand on my own two feet when it comes to residency, but anything helps considering uncertainty of pass/fail step and where the world is in 4 years.

Cons

• Finances. Taking loans out is okay. 75k in loans is also okay with me. But pales in comparison to Kaiser's offer.
• Cost of Living. Eating, moving, traveling, sleeping, breathing. It's all more expensive in NYC and I don't want to be terribly frugal while I'm there. Will probably slowly increase spending and get expensive quick.
• Further from family. Not many people in mine, or my wife's, family will be able to visit us regularly. If something bad happens or something exciting happens it is nice to be easily accessible to family.
• Weather. I love being outdoors, and while upstate New York and the surrounding areas offer tons of outdoors things, I will not be able to step outside and enjoy the sunshine like I am used to doing. My whole life I have been used to sunshine and blue skies, there is no saying how much the cold and drab weather will effect me, but I'm sure it will.
• NYC. Very busy, I like thinking about NYC, but maybe I actually hate the pace and crowded-ness.
• Family life. If my wife and I end up deciding to have a kid, or accidentally have one, NYC will be close to miserable with a kid. Especially for my wife once clerkships start and I am less helpful. Don't anticipate it, but who knows.
• Smaller living space. The dorms are cheap for New York, but they're not extravagant by any means. Couples housing is sharing a studio in the student housing, so we'd be two in a space for one. Its not ironically small, but still small.
• Covid. NYC will likely be the worst place for Covid for a while to come. I don't want to put too much on pause and my life in New York will be put on pause more than anywhere else.
• People. I will vibe with the people worse than I will at Kaiser. More people, sure. But I'm undeniably a west coast guy through and through.
• Wife's Desires. One main con is that my wife is not eager to move to New York City. She'll be further away from her family. Less sunshine for her. She's a little scared of living in a big city and isn't sure how safe she will be in New York. She doesn't think she'll feel comfortable taking the subway and stuff like that. I have no problems with these things generally, and I think its a good chance for her to grow as a person. She's okay with going to NYU but fears she'll be more lonely or even depressed in New York.

Kaiser Permanente
Pros

• Money. All that I said about NYU can, for some people, be negated by the difference of about 65K each year. (35k grant compared to 30k loans). Over four years thats a 260k difference. While the loans at NYU alone do not seem bad in a vacuum. We are looking at a difference of up to 260k between the two institutions.
• Weather. Pasadena has sunny skies, palm trees, beaches nearby, need I say more? Skiing, hiking, and surfing all in the safe day might be an exagerration, but its a pretty sweet idea.
• Inaugural class pampering. I am amazed at the lengths that Kaiser has gone so far to spoil us and incentivize top-tier students to attend. I can get used to be treated like that for 4 years. They're providing hotels for all interviewees, sending us palm trees, they will call us whenever we want. They will provide us with Surface Pro tablets, pay for all out Uworld, FirstAid, etc. They are all in on your success. This is intangible and is more of a feeling than a material pro, but its a huge reason I haven't withdrawn.
• Family Friendly. I can decide to have kids more comfortably if I'm in Pasadena and will worry less about how that will go over.
• Leadership. I will be surprised if every student at Kaiser doesn't have their name somewhere in an organization or club's leadership. There are infinite opportunities to start clubs and lead your groups because, well, everything needs to be started.
• Funding. I know NYU has money also, but it feels like the money at Kaiser is more accessible to students. For example, I can go to the dean of [something] and say I was thinking we could do a class trip to Alaska. And the odds of that happening at Kaiser are much higher than NYU. At NYU they have their forms and their well-defined limitations on what can and can't be done. At Kaiser I feel that they will be that much more eager to support me.
• Facilities. My God. If you haven't already, go take a look at the medical school building tour on YouTube and tell me that isn't the place you would want to be stuck in if the world has a zombie apocalypse. Yoga, gym, meditation, coffee, study rooms, cafeteria, lounge areas, cool chairs, sunlight. It has everything I thought I would need and more. The
• Faculty. There is a very unique opportunity to grow close to mentors and the faculty, including the founding dean who is awesome, in a way that I don't think is possible anywhere else. This is not to say that at NYU I will not have close mentors, but it just can't compare to a full time medical school's staff walking with 48 students.
• Student class. These are reeeeeaaaaaalllllyyyyy qualified students. I would not underestimate the quality of students at Kaiser. I can only imagine the awesome things that will happen when you take 48 students who are really motivated to succeed, likely sacrificed some prestige for KP, and are being carefully nurtured and taken care of by world-class faculty...
• Lifestyle. I think my wife and I will live as close to royalty as we want to. We'll have plenty of spending money and the environment to support it, even though Pasadena does have a high cost of living. Really, the idea of living in Pasadena is awesome and enticing, likely similar to what I want in my residency. However, experiencing something new in NYC might make this lifestyle a little less standout because the other lifestyle also seems cool.
• Matching. I want to match on the west coast, so ideally Kaiser gives me the best chance to match in the area. KP LA has residency programs and they offer some in many specialties. However, they do not have an orthopedic residency, only fellowship, so if stuff really hits the fan, back up in my current specialty of interest is nonexistent. But I do not worry from matching out of Kaiser at all. This is just worst case scenario.
• Wife's desires. My wife will enjoy SoCal more when she is on her own and I am studying or whatever than she will New York.

Cons

• Brand New. Inevitably, I will not have a typical medical school experience. The hiccups and set backs that will occur are going to happen. I need to be okay with that, knowing that it is a new institution, but I'm not 100% sure I will be okay with that. Being the first year is a pro and a con depending on the specific you're looking at. "Inaugural class" if you want to be positive, and "inexperienced" or "untested" if you want to be critical.
• LA traffic. There are plenty of clinical sites, I will get to experience diverse clinical settings, but I will have to drive around in traffic which I am not fond of. It is not that bad, really, but in comparison with NYU's row of walkable hospitals...it really doesn't.
• Less peers. I look forward to meeting new people in medical school and finding my own social group. Not networking, but friendships. With only 48 students and no upperclassmen, I will be limited. The 48 students will be very close and I already know they are exceptional, but less people is less people however you spin it.
• School identity. No affiliated graduate schools (partnership with CalTech for MD/PhD) for Kaiser whereas NYU has access to public health, business, and many other professional schools that may help build a social group. There are no traditions, there are no people telling you how much they loved their rotations with a doctor. Clubs will be smaller. I can't imagine any club will have more than a dozen or so students (and even that is a quarter of the class). There are no intramural sports where we can compete with other groups or join an undergraduate team.
• Stricter schedule. Classes are mandatory and while there is flexibility, there's a good amount of required work. Less likely to be able to take a day off or meet my wife for lunch on a whim. Mon-Fri 8-5 are pretty much blocked out between the mandatory classes and individual flexible time. This also includes the vacation time. NYU has a little more vacation time during summers for global health things or research.
• Curriculum. I have always been a "study on my own and get the content fine" person. Kaiser is big on small groups and non-lecture learning. I am okay with either curricular approach, and they're not terribly different. But I think I may not get as much out of the constant small groups as other students with different learning styles may. That being said, it is really recently developed and basically as cutting edge as curriculum gets. Maybe I should view this as a unique opportunity to learn my trade in innovative ways. The virtual anatomy, for example, is great and I loved it. I can totally view myself learning well with that VR anatomy stuff. Both schools use problem based learning and use small groups often. But NYU's lectures might be a little better for me.
• Transportation. Along with the fact that I have to drive all over LA, is the fact that I will not be biking and walking everywhere which is my personal preference. My wife feels more comfortable not on public transport, but she will accommodate what I decide. (She is also very involved in my decision, don't worry)

Summary: It boils down to if I want to take risks and have adventures in my life while having security in the medical school experience (NYU), or if I want to have security in my personal life with a familiar environment and people, while taking risks, trailblazing, and having adventures within the medical school experience (Kaiser). I would be more comfortable taking the lifestyle risk and potentially love or hate NYC if I was on my own. But for the sake of my wife, I also need to see how she will spend her next 4 years. Financially both are great, but Kaiser is just amazing. I have no undergrad loans, so I am going to be quite good financially. NYU seemed like the perfect choice this whole cycle, but Kaiser has done everything fantastically from what I've seen.

PLEASE HELP.

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[Booksandshoes]

It's definitely not an easy decision, but I would vote for NYU. The program is more established, diverse, and good networking and connections would help with a residency like ortho.

Sent from my SM-G965U using SDN mobile

 

[proudofmykids]

First, it isn’t a 260k difference since they are mutually exclusive. In the end, Going to Kaiser Nets you zero debt vs. NYUs end of about 130k debt.
However, given what you have written, I believe that keeping your wife happy while in med school is quite important, specially since residency will be even more busy and likely will require flexibility on her part at that future time. Thus, provide he pr this concession now and mention her need for more open minded flexibility in four years. Pick Kaiser and don’t look back! You’ll be great and happy.
Congrats.

 

[nymedschoolfan]

Ortho top 10 at NYU and HSS is nearby too... can't get better for ortho. It will be MUCH easier to match into ortho from NYU I bet. An established ortho residency is not likely going to take someone from Kaiser as they are so new compared to NYU student coming from top 10 ortho home program with letters from renowned faculty and amazing connections. Your wife can adjust and adapt, I think the massive differences you'd get in career opportunity make the move worth it. If this was UCLA it'd be a different story

 

[deleted997951]

From what you wrote it sounds like you want to go to kaiser tbh. Your wife should be a big part of your choice. Either go for prestige and better career options and risk her being unhappy or go where she will be comfortable and your goals will be harder to achieve but not impossible. Those are your two choices from what I read.

 

[longhaul3]

I just read the other day that Kaiser's core clerkships are all outpatient. I have no stake in this decision nor a connection to either school, but if that's true, that would be a big issue for me.

 

[wagonwheel23]

@longhaul3 Wow. If that is true, that would be a huge red flag for me.

OP, tough choice. The whole post reads like you'll be happier at Kaiser. I'm entering my fourth year of medical school and am so thrilled with my location and my partner's happiness that I would recommend choosing location/happiness over other factors. However, Kaiser seems to have really sold many people on SDN on the idea of living in Pasadena... Aside from the weather, Pasadena isn't that great so I hope you've done some research and not just gone on what they've told you.

 

[longhaul3]

@longhaul3 Wow. If that is true, that would be a huge red flag for me.

OP, tough choice. The whole post reads like you'll be happier at Kaiser. I'm entering my fourth year of medical school and am so thrilled with my location and my partner's happiness that I would recommend choosing location/happiness over other factors. However, Kaiser seems to have really sold many people on SDN on the idea of living in Pasadena... Aside from the weather, Pasadena isn't that great so I hope you've done some research and not just gone on what they've told you.

clinical rotations only outpatient

Hello, I thought it would be appropriate to post this here (if not, sorry lol). I am currently considering attending a medical school (KPSOM) that only has clinical core rotations that are outpatient. No large academic center or Univ. Hospital. We would have to supplement our rotations with...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[greymandude]

First, it isn’t a 260k difference since they are mutually exclusive. In the end, Going to Kaiser Nets you zero debt vs. NYUs end of about 130k debt.
However, given what you have written, I believe that keeping your wife happy while in med school is quite important, specially since residency will be even more busy and likely will require flexibility on her part at that future time. Thus, provide he pr this concession now and mention her need for more open minded flexibility in four years. Pick Kaiser and don’t look back! You’ll be great and happy.
Congrats.

You're right! It's not a 260k difference, I have to take out all the 35k I would spend at Kaiser. I still anticipate having some leftover, but you're right. I like your idea to give up a little something for the relationship, especially because this decision is not just between medical schools how SDN likes to make it at times.

I guess I just wonder if that we will enjoy NYU and Kaiser regardless and take that out of the equation.

Thanks!

 

[greymandude]

Ortho top 10 at NYU and HSS is nearby too... can't get better for ortho. It will be MUCH easier to match into ortho from NYU I bet. An established ortho residency is not likely going to take someone from Kaiser as they are so new compared to NYU student coming from top 10 ortho home program with letters from renowned faculty and amazing connections. Your wife can adjust and adapt, I think the massive differences you'd get in career opportunity make the move worth it. If this was UCLA it'd be a different story

I've mulled over HSS benefits also. I feel that Kaiser is in a better position than OUWB was and their first class matched nicely (ortho at Pitt specifically) I know that Kaiser cannot, in its first year, compete with what NYU can offer me in ortho...

 

[greymandude]

@longhaul3 Wow. If that is true, that would be a huge red flag for me.

OP, tough choice. The whole post reads like you'll be happier at Kaiser. I'm entering my fourth year of medical school and am so thrilled with my location and my partner's happiness that I would recommend choosing location/happiness over other factors. However, Kaiser seems to have really sold many people on SDN on the idea of living in Pasadena... Aside from the weather, Pasadena isn't that great so I hope you've done some research and not just gone on what they've told you.

Pasadena, as my friend in California put it, is just okay. It's a nice quiet and more lax place in the LA area I thought. But things like not being able to find a place to eat at 10pm before my interview day did make it seem like its not as lively as I'd like. What are your thoughts on Pasadena?

 

[nymedschoolfan]

I've mulled over HSS benefits also. I feel that Kaiser is in a better position than OUWB was and their first class matched nicely (ortho at Pitt specifically) I know that Kaiser cannot, in its first year, compete with what NYU can offer me in ortho...

N=1 but I would've bet you that person from OUWB who matched into ortho at Pitt worked extremely hard setting up connections and impressing people compared to someone say at NYU.. and was at the top of the class. Yes you could prob do it from Kaiser but it would require much more effort.

Pasadena, as my friend in California put it, is just okay. It's a nice quiet and more lax place in the LA area I thought. But things like not being able to find a place to eat at 10pm before my interview day did make it seem like its not as lively as I'd like. What are your thoughts on Pasadena?

Boring and suburban. Nice if you want a family I guess and a more peaceful place.

 

[bluemoonwoman]

Bumping this...

 

[greymandude]

Bumping this...

Still not decided for what it's worth...input would be helpful still!

 

[nymedschoolfan]

Still not decided for what it's worth...input would be helpful still!

Might be helpful

 

[benefit_sf]

Regarding your uncertainty about life being on hold at NYU, this post about NY on the Mount Sinai thread might be helpful:

“After a long debate, I will likely be withdrawing. I was so excited to go to Ichan, but I have a friend, who is starting her PhD at another top NYC institution. She told me that the school notified them that they are almost certain that classes will not resume in the fall in-person. Unfortunately, it does not look like that school has notified their accepted medical students, with the obvious reason being that they do not want to lose all of their students before April 30th. If one NYC school has made this announcement they are all bound to follow, but the other medical schools are likely delaying.

I don't feel comfortable planning to move to NYC and endlessly guessing when my medical education can begin in-person. My other choice might also not begin at the expected start date, but I feel much more confident that in-person classes can resume faster than if I went to school in the center of the epidemic where the timeline is significantly extended and the risk of a second wave is high.”

2019-2020 Mt. Sinai (Icahn)

There's a lot of unknowns, including with the continuating of our medical education beyond our current class. Can you share any more information about this?

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[runmed11]

Regarding your uncertainty about life being on hold at NYU, this post about NY on the Mount Sinai thread might be helpful:

“After a long debate, I will likely be withdrawing. I was so excited to go to Ichan, but I have a friend, who is starting her PhD at another top NYC institution. She told me that the school notified them that they are almost certain that classes will not resume in the fall in-person. Unfortunately, it does not look like that school has notified their accepted medical students, with the obvious reason being that they do not want to lose all of their students before April 30th. If one NYC school has made this announcement they are all bound to follow, but the other medical schools are likely delaying.

I don't feel comfortable planning to move to NYC and endlessly guessing when my medical education can begin in-person. My other choice might also not begin at the expected start date, but I feel much more confident that in-person classes can resume faster than if I went to school in the center of the epidemic where the timeline is significantly extended and the risk of a second wave is high.”

2019-2020 Mt. Sinai (Icahn)

There's a lot of unknowns, including with the continuating of our medical education beyond our current class. Can you share any more information about this?

forums.studentdoctor.net

I would take the post above with a grain of salt. Of course there is a large possibility that education at NYU could start online, but if you happened to attend revisit they did a pretty good job explaining how the start of our education would work and the different scenarios they are planning for. That said, your decision seems difficult, but perhaps we will be future classmates!

 

[hailbate]

"Really, the idea of living in Pasadena is awesome and enticing, likely similar to what I want in my residency"

"My wife will enjoy SoCal more when she is on her own and I am studying or whatever than she will New York."

These two statements (in addition to cost), are pretty telling enough to me that Kaiser is the better choice. You'll be saving money, you'll be in an area where you want to match for residency, and you'll be keeping your important support system happy.

 

[greymandude]

Regarding your uncertainty about life being on hold at NYU, this post about NY on the Mount Sinai thread might be helpful:

“After a long debate, I will likely be withdrawing. I was so excited to go to Ichan, but I have a friend, who is starting her PhD at another top NYC institution. She told me that the school notified them that they are almost certain that classes will not resume in the fall in-person. Unfortunately, it does not look like that school has notified their accepted medical students, with the obvious reason being that they do not want to lose all of their students before April 30th. If one NYC school has made this announcement they are all bound to follow, but the other medical schools are likely delaying.

I don't feel comfortable planning to move to NYC and endlessly guessing when my medical education can begin in-person. My other choice might also not begin at the expected start date, but I feel much more confident that in-person classes can resume faster than if I went to school in the center of the epidemic where the timeline is significantly extended and the risk of a second wave is high.”

2019-2020 Mt. Sinai (Icahn)

There's a lot of unknowns, including with the continuating of our medical education beyond our current class. Can you share any more information about this?

forums.studentdoctor.net

Do you feel that NYC schools will be the worst ones? Obviously they have it the worst, but I guess I've been thinking if they start remote then everyone else will too...

 

[QueenAudrey]

Marriage = sacrifice and compromise

The first 5 years of marriage are the toughest. It's not an extracurricular activity. Just like medical school, your marriage is going to require an extraordinary effort from you to succeed. Both partners need to feel important, valued and heard. When you retire from practicing medicine someday, your family will still be there...or they won't. Think carefully about your priorities.

 

[greymandude]

Are you planning on academia?

Not really, it's not on my radar at the moment. But I haven't counted anything out.

Marriage = sacrifice and compromise

The first 5 years of marriage are the toughest. It's not an extracurricular activity. Just like medical school, your marriage is going to require an extraordinary effort from you to succeed. Both partners need to feel important, valued and heard. When you retire from practicing medicine someday, your family will still be there...or they won't. Think carefully about your priorities.

This was a big consideration. I figured all this is to be happy in the end and if I'm miserable in my personal life, it's not worth it.

 

[Grapesurgery]

Which of the 2 did you decide on?

 

[greymandude]

I ended up picking Kaiser Permanente!

In short, I had an increasingly improving gut feeling every time I thought about going to Kaiser. The individual attention (which I think will be better than any school in the country), the California weather, the new building, being pampered by their resources, it was all so so exciting.

An anecdote I'll share is that the day before the commit deadline, I was tragically undecided and emailed both Deans. I emailed Dean Schuster, founding dean and CEO of Kaiser School of Medicine, and Dean Rivera, dean of admissions at NYU, laying everything out for them to see. I was honest about my decision and the factors weighing on me.

I asked Dean Rivera if I could video call the next day, and he happily obliged, scheduled me into his busy schedule and was proactive in his replies. I asked Dean Schuster if I could visit the school on a day trip (this was only possible for California, not for New York, otherwise I would have asked the same of NYU). His reply was that he would hate to have me drive there and back home in the same day, "Let us get you a hotel for the night," he told me, "Then we can talk things over and I'll give you a quarantine friendly tour of the school."

I accepted.

I drove over to California immediately that night with my wife and stayed in my wonderful Kaiser-comped hotel. The following morning I had my call with Dean Rivera and he was very direct and "took off his NYU hat" which was refreshing and so so helpful. He's a wonderful person and an excellent charmer. I was eager to go to NYU after this call. I was so excited about living in NYC, possibilities of a 3 year MD with an ortho residency at NYU Langone, I was very happy.

But then I basically got the ultra package from Kaiser. From the moment I met with the staff I felt like royalty. Dean Schuster had the most humble demeanor and welcoming, goofy personality. I got a tour of the entire building, which is absolutely beautiful. If you haven't already please look at the YouTube tour of the school. Then Schuster sat down and spoke with me for about 2 hours and answered every single question I had.

If you're familiar with how Elon Musk can answer the most specific details about rocket part XYZ, that's how this felt. He could tell me why they picked this color instead of that one, why this chair is superior, the rationale behind the amount of vacation days, locations of clinical experiences...everything.

This was the overwhelming theme that I took away from the meeting. I felt that everything about Kaiser was well thought out and had thorough research and planning behind it. It was also overwhelmingly clear that it was all built around the student experience, it wasn't working around a budget, public image, prestige, trendy buzz words. It was all built around us, the students.

Another theme from the meeting was that they were able to be very picky with everything. They planned everything about the school, and that included the faculty and students. The luxury of being very selective with faculty positions, administrative positions, and students meant that everything would be at the highest levels. This was incredibly exciting.

At the end of the meeting with Dean Schuster, I thanked him for his valuable time and told him I was very impressed with the responsiveness to my requests and willingness to spend so much time with us. He said he wanted it to be emblematic of how they want to treat students and to show us what they felt was most important. It was certainly emblematic and showed me they valued the students a lot.

This is not to say that my other choices do not care about students, but in my experience I felt that Kaiser was a cut above the rest when it came to student focus. Not just that, but they have the immense resources to actualize their focus into tangible benefits.

 

[Hmsaywhat]

Have you enjoyed your two years of med school at Kaiser?