Observations of the 2007 match

[heech]

Here's an interesting fact, and something that might motivate more into the DO match...

In the 2007 match, only 6 positions each remain unmatched in the NRMP match for OB/GYN and EM. An awful lot of US seniors will be looking to scramble into those programs, starting tomorrow. By way of contrast, 26 EM and 20 OBGYN spots remain unfilled in DO programs. This year at least, DOs would have had a natural advantage. Maybe the quality and geographic location isn't ideal, but at least DOs have more flexibility in going into a specialty of choice.

Does anyone know whether MD graduates can scramble into DO-training programs? Would they still be BC/BE?

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[Taus]

Here's an interesting fact, and something that might motivate more into the DO match...

In the 2007 match, only 6 positions each remain unmatched in the NRMP match for OB/GYN and EM. An awful lot of US seniors will be looking to scramble into those programs, starting tomorrow. By way of contrast, 26 EM and 20 OBGYN spots remain unfilled in DO programs. This year at least, DOs would have had a natural advantage. Maybe the quality and geographic location isn't ideal, but at least DOs have more flexibility in going into a specialty of choice.

Does anyone know whether MD graduates can scramble into DO-training programs? Would they still be BC/BE?

No, MD grads can not enter a DO spot...its an issue that is frequently debated on here...but as it stands....MD's cannot enter those spots

 

[beastmaster]

What are the 2 websites where I can read these stastics for both the MD and DO matches?

 

[heech]

So, this seems like a practical, obvious argument against the joint match then.

I personally know of several MD graduates who're scrambling this week, all of whom would kill for one of the available DO training spots. (And would gladly compete on the basis of board scores.)

 

[heech]

What are the 2 websites where I can read these stastics for both the MD and DO matches?

The NRMP match results are being kicked around in the specialty forums on SDN. Only those with access to ERAS gets to see the report, so I'm only reporting second-hand. You can take a look at OB/GYN and EM forums for both of those two numbers, both historic lows (at least within recent memory).

DO match results are:
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/summpos.htm

 

[beastmaster]

And would gladly compete on the basis of board scores.

If only it was that simple...

 

[homeboy]

i don't think it's necessarily a plus that more AOA residencies were unfilled, especially considering there's less of them to begin with, meaning a much higher percentage were unfilled.

yea, sure, lots of unmatched MDs would love those slots, but that doesn't mean they're good residencies. I don't see how that's an argument against a joint match: many go unfilled because they're not good residencies. seems more like an argument that those spots (in terms of health care dollars) should be re-allocated to residencies that do fill because they're known to be good residencies.

 

[bravotwozero]

The NRMP match results are being kicked around in the specialty forums on SDN. Only those with access to ERAS gets to see the report, so I'm only reporting second-hand. You can take a look at OB/GYN and EM forums for both of those two numbers, both historic lows (at least within recent memory).

DO match results are:
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/summpos.htm

Man, I can't believe there were leftover residency spots for anesthesiology and orthopedic surgery!

Granted, it was a handful, but still...Even if it's not a 'good' residency, I'd have still taken it.

 

[Testy McAterson]

something worth noting, though... a few of these residencies may be unfunded. for example: a dermatology residency at a hospital in long beach might sound golden, but reading up on it i found:
"IMPORTANT: This is an AOCD/AOA approved program but it is unfunded at this time. Income earning opportunities MAY be available in the second and third year of training." link

(under 'training information')

 

[Orthodoc40]

Man, I can't believe there were leftover residency spots for anesthesiology and orthopedic surgery!

Granted, it was a handful, but still...Even if it's not a 'good' residency, I'd have still taken it.

Yah at the end of it you're still gonna be able to practice that specialty!
But the unfunded part could change my mind.

So if someone did not go through the DO match, then didn't match in the allo match, can they scramble to get the open DO and/or MD spots? Or can they only scramble for the allo match?

 

[gagolden]

Yah at the end of it you're still gonna be able to practice that specialty!
But the unfunded part could change my mind.

So if someone did not go through the DO match, then didn't match in the allo match, can they scramble to get the open DO and/or MD spots? Or can they only scramble for the allo match?

Im about 99% sure you can scrambe into the DO match. I thought about it when I saw all those open spots and couldn't take the anticipation anymore.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

I would place some money that those spots will get taken now that the allo match is over, better to go somewhere in the specialty you want then a wasted year.

 

[heech]

something worth noting, though... a few of these residencies may be unfunded. for example: a dermatology residency at a hospital in long beach might sound golden, but reading up on it i found:
"IMPORTANT: This is an AOCD/AOA approved program but it is unfunded at this time. Income earning opportunities MAY be available in the second and third year of training." link

Very interesting! That program isn't listed in the list of AOA vacancies linked above (no derm programs at all listed)... so, perhaps that list is only of funded positions?

 

[Taus]

I would place some money that those spots will get taken now that the allo match is over, better to go somewhere in the specialty you want then a wasted year.

thats usually how things play out to the best of my knowledge

 

[jhug]

i think this is a great argument FOR a joint match...but there are some details that people must understand as the anti-joint match people will fill your heads with fallacies much like the AOA does.
5 or 6 years ago we had a "joint-match" in that we all matched the same day. The problem was that DO's would match in BOTH AOA & ACGME programs and then pick the better program. Obviously this upset a lot of people so the AOA moved their match a month earlier and eliminates anyone who matches at that time from the ACGME match. What we want is to RE-join the match so that we could rank MD or DO programs at the same time and are only allowed one match (as it is with the both matches now individually)...How many of the DO OB/EM applicants might have applied to the statistically HUGE amount of openings in the AOA match AND the ACGME programs had they be offered that option?
Instead, the AOA forces us to chose AOA vs ACGME from the outset.
As always, MD students have never been able to apply to DO residencies and that would not change.

 

[heech]

Instead, the AOA forces us to chose AOA vs ACGME from the outset.
As always, MD students have never been able to apply to DO residencies and that would not change.

Not being privy to the negotiations, I have no idea about what might be going on behind closed doors.

But is it possible that the ACGME is pressing the AOA to merge their residency programs entirely, as a condition of a joint match? In other words, all programs accredited by the ACGME (which I wouldn't mind), and all programs must accept MD/DO students equally?

 

[jhug]

we were pushing policy (and i sincerely feel we could have gotten it to pass) in the MSS and into the HOD at the AMA...the AMA isn't like the AOA...In the allo world the ACGME oversees the academic issues while the AMA can wield its influence in the political arena...the ACGME listens to the AMA but doesn't have to follow it.
As i said above, we were ever so close to passing policy in the AMA to re-join the match...until the AOA president, without consent from those he claimed to so horribly represent, sent a personal letter (yet claiming to act as the president of the AOA) to the AMA pleading that we not pass this resolution. The end result was the AMA putting the resolution on hold until the AOA makes up its mind. That gave the AOA just enough time to create some farce of a "study" that proved the (+)90% DO students who participated in a poll supporting the re-joining of the match didn't really want it.
Never before, or since, has the ACGME (or the AMA for that matter) asked that ACGME students have access to AOA programs...(at least openly)
I agree with you though, I've met plenty of MD students that would love to learn OMM in residency...but the AOA, in its hampered wisdom, doesn't want that to happen.