Occupy Wall Street

[JLum]

What say you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

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[yappy]

I say Ron Paul and Ayn Rand are as idealistic as Karl Marx.

 

[JLum]

Oh yeah? I might agree if your implying that ignorance is prevalent here in America.

 

[Doc Smile]

socialism.

 

[Doc Smile]

From a buddy of mine on Occupy Wallstreet:

"Steve Wynn, of Wynn resorts, was born in 1942 as the son of a man who ran bingo games. His father died in 1963, and Steve took over running the bingo parlors. He made enough money to purchase a small stake in a Las Vegas hotel. He now has a net worth of 2.3 billion dollars. His company, which he built from a small bingo operation in Maryland, employs 16, 405 people.

Note to the "99%"...the "1%" are the reason you have jobs at all. Quit complaining about the power those individuals wield in the world. They have earned it. If you don't like it, go out and become successful. Live the REAL American dream, be an entrepreneur, make your fortune, and rightfully earn some of that power. Then see if you want the power to be held by the pot smoking twenty-somethings holding signs and clogging up traffic.

Sources:
http://www.hoovers.com/company/Wynn_Resorts_Limited/rfjrcif-1.html
http://www.investingvalue.com/investment-leaders/steve-wynn/index.htm"

AND:

so yeah.

 

[newpredent]

Dentists and dental students should align themselves with the Occupy Wall street movement. We rely on patients to be able to pay for the services we provide. The movement wants to rebuild he middle class. The top 1% have too much wealth, which in turn hurts the wealth of the nation.
A more evenly distributed wealth will help all dentists and increase the number of patients that have access to our services. A win-win.

 

[SeattleRDH]

Dentists are not in the top 1%. CEOs and Investors of Insurance Companies, however, are.

It is very difficult to survive (especially in an urban/suburban area) without being a PPO provider of at least one insurance plan.

This year one of the most popular plans in Washington State, Washington Dental Service, reduced it's fees to providers by 15% without warning. So dentists in these parts are having to make a decision: 1) either take the 15% reduction out of profits or 2) discontinue being a PPO provider and risk losing all WDS patients. The former is undesirable for obvious reasons because the dentist is taking the entire hit. The later, however, will likely result in less patients, less production, and laying off staff.

It is not easy to get into dental school. We are all very smart, driven people. We are not, however, the top 1%. We are small business owners.

 

[lotexigeus]

tl dr

 

[charlestweed]

We would get out of this economic crisis a lot faster if each of us stop looking at others (the top 1% earners or the government) and ask when will they change things for us. And instead, each of us should start saying to ourselves “I will bear the responsibility for who I become and for the quality of my own life.”

I couldn’t agree more with Herman Cain’s statement “Don’t blame Wall Street. Don’t blame big banks. If you don’t have a job and you are not rich? Blame yourself. ” And Mr. Cain went on to explain: “when I was growing up, I was blessed to have had parents. That didn’t teach me to be jealous of anybody and didn’t teach me to be jealous of somebody. It is not a person’s fault because the succeeded. It is a person’s fault if they failed. And so this is why I don’t understand these demonstrations and what is it that they’re looking for.”

 

[SEAirLand]

I cannot tell you how sick this movement is.

Redistribution of wealth is simply a manipulation of the law in order to STEAL another persons efforts.

Who are these people to determine what is too much?? What right do they have to do this? The arrogance and the entitlement beliefs/issues with these people are ridiculous.

This country was designed to PROVIDE the OPPORTUNITY to make whatever you want out of life. Does that mean you will be GIVEN anything? NO. What this means is that its there if you want it. You need to be creative to find a niche, or, work your ***** off like the below story, and actually EARN it.

People who complain about this just want a FREE dollar. People who complain about this simply want to have what these people have EARNED and what they HAVE NOT!

From a buddy of mine on Occupy Wallstreet:

"Steve Wynn, of Wynn resorts, was born in 1942 as the son of a man who ran bingo games. His father died in 1963, and Steve took over running the bingo parlors. He made enough money to purchase a small stake in a Las Vegas hotel. He now has a net worth of 2.3 billion dollars. His company, which he built from a small bingo operation in Maryland, employs 16, 405 people.

Note to the "99%"...the "1%" are the reason you have jobs at all. Quit complaining about the power those individuals wield in the world. They have earned it. If you don't like it, go out and become successful. Live the REAL American dream, be an entrepreneur, make your fortune, and rightfully earn some of that power. Then see if you want the power to be held by the pot smoking twenty-somethings holding signs and clogging up traffic.

Sources:
http://www.hoovers.com/company/Wynn_Resorts_Limited/rfjrcif-1.html
http://www.investingvalue.com/investment-leaders/steve-wynn/index.htm"

AND:

so yeah.

We would get out of this economic crisis a lot faster if each of us stop looking at others (the top 1% earners or the government) and ask when will they change things for us. And instead, each of us should start saying to ourselves "I will bear the responsibility for who I become and for the quality of my own life."

I couldn't agree more with Herman Cain's statement "Don't blame Wall Street. Don't blame big banks. If you don't have a job and you are not rich? Blame yourself. " And Mr. Cain went on to explain: "when I was growing up, I was blessed to have had parents. That didn't teach me to be jealous of anybody and didn't teach me to be jealous of somebody. It is not a person's fault because the succeeded. It is a person's fault if they failed. And so this is why I don't understand these demonstrations and what is it that they're looking for."

 

[yappy]

Many of the interviews I've seen of this group has been educated, employed people who are worried about the growing income disparity in this country.
Your arguments lack any historical or global perspective. Many people understand how wealth is created in this country. It is created by a great idea and a lot of hard work. Indeed, that grows the "pie" and makes many people money. This is capitalism and it is wonderful. This idea of growing the "pie" is an important issue but there is a second issue at work right now.

The issue is as an accountant, engineer, cashier, sales rep, electrician, RN etc. how much of that pie have you earned? That is to say, at the present levels of revenue being generated at any point in economy X how is labor valued? The answer is less and less. Look back at past income disparity levels in history and what the economy was doing. Strongest growth was in times when those individuals who did important work were compensated well and in-turn spent their hard earned money on great products.

That is what this movement is about. Returning to a time between the 40's - 2000's. Where the people who did the actual work in this country were valued at a level consistent with their education and the real value they created.

PS: sea land air? are you in the community?

I cannot tell you how sick this movement is.

Redistribution of wealth is simply a manipulation of the law in order to STEAL another persons efforts.

Who are these people to determine what is too much?? What right do they have to do this? The arrogance and the entitlement beliefs/issues with these people are ridiculous.

This country was designed to PROVIDE the OPPORTUNITY to make whatever you want out of life. Does that mean you will be GIVEN anything? NO. What this means is that its there if you want it. You need to be creative to find a niche, or, work your ***** off like the below story, and actually EARN it.

People who complain about this just want a FREE dollar. People who complain about this simply want to have what these people have EARNED and what they HAVE NOT!

 

[teh dentist]

I think the movement is losing its true direction. American entrepreneurs and Corporate america has always been out to make profit. This is obvious and important for success. However, what companies are doing now are taking the jobs from this country, the USA, and bringing them wherever they can get the cheapest wage. They are making even more profit than ever before as well as cutting more jobs IN THE USA than ever before.

I wish the movement focused on that more instead of the more socialist veer it's beginning to take.

 

[Bereno]

I think the movement is losing its true direction. American entrepreneurs and Corporate america has always been out to make profit. This is obvious and important for success. However, what companies are doing now are taking the jobs from this country, the USA, and bringing them wherever they can get the cheapest wage. They are making even more profit than ever before as well as cutting more jobs IN THE USA than ever before.

I wish the movement focused on that more instead of the more socialist veer it's beginning to take.

I don't think you (and many Americans for that matter) understand how modern economics works... The idea of "keeping jobs in the USA" was only viable back in the 1950s. Since then, jobs have continually moved from the US to other countries regardless of economic performance. This might sound odd to you, but it is because of this outsourcing that our economy has been able to survive in today's global economy. US corporations would not be globally competative if they continued to pay US worker saleries. The question for US corporations quickly becomes one of three options:

1. Keep your workers, maintain their salaries, and watch the company die.
2. Keep you workers, offer them a severe pay cut, and watch the company struggle to compete.
3. Keep some workers, move many workers overseas, reduce costs, and watch the company survive.

I think it is unfortunate that the idea of the US being its own separate economic entity still exists. Politicians in the US are continually holding less and less influence over our economic performance. The truth of the matter is, is that this is a GLOBAL economy, and the US is losing its competitive edge to other countries. This is why there has been a shift from goods production to service production in the US. There is nothing that politics can do to curb this trend.

 

[JLum]

We would get out of this economic crisis a lot faster if each of us stop looking at others (the top 1% earners or the government) and ask when will they change things for us. And instead, each of us should start saying to ourselves "I will bear the responsibility for who I become and for the quality of my own life."

I couldn't agree more with Herman Cain's statement "Don't blame Wall Street. Don't blame big banks. If you don't have a job and you are not rich? Blame yourself. " And Mr. Cain went on to explain: "when I was growing up, I was blessed to have had parents. That didn't teach me to be jealous of anybody and didn't teach me to be jealous of somebody. It is not a person's fault because the succeeded. It is a person's fault if they failed. And so this is why I don't understand these demonstrations and what is it that they're looking for."

Your entire statement wreaks of ignorance, both in economics and politics. Don't blame big banks or government for encouraging the true 20+% unemployment, rampant inflation, a declining dollar, and stagnant wages. Blame the working man (which includes businesses that pay taxes). Blame the tax payer who is currently financing the 16 trillion dollar bailout of zombie banks in 08(google GAO Fed audit) only to see them still needing liquidity and further stimulus. It's not failed economic policies bought by special interest, aka global bankers and some multinational corps. Those same groups don't continue to write regulatory law or support a fraudulent tax code. They aren't seeing record profit margins while paying zero taxes. It's the people who have stopped thinking, stopped working, stopped trying.

Oh wait, that's just your ignorance speaking. Back to reality now. We WILL NEVER escape this "crisis" without major change to our financial and political system. The more we paper over the ever-expanding bubbles, the worse it will become. More printing, more debt, more corrupt central planning economics. The dollar is on its way out of reserve currency status, just waiting for one final big push. At that point, your tune will start to change. And many, including yourself, will realize that prevailing ignorance has destroyed this nation.

 

[JLum]

I should state, I am not for bigger taxes or government handouts. I believe in true free markets and limited government. That is the only solution to all these problems. People need to stop expecting big homes, fast cars, and fine wine. Live within your means and realize you still have it better than 95% of the world's population. Occupy Wall Street is a movement representing of a plethora of ideas. Some are very good and others are atrocious.

 

[charlestweed]

Your entire statement wreaks of ignorance, both in economics and politics. Don't blame big banks or government for encouraging the true 20+% unemployment, rampant inflation, a declining dollar, and stagnant wages. Blame the working man (which includes businesses that pay taxes). Blame the tax payer who is currently financing the 16 trillion dollar bailout of zombie banks in 08(google GAO Fed audit) only to see them still needing liquidity and further stimulus. It's not failed economic policies bought by special interest, aka global bankers and some multinational corps. Those same groups don't continue to write regulatory law or support a fraudulent tax code. They aren't seeing record profit margins while paying zero taxes. It's the people who have stopped thinking, stopped working, stopped trying.

The top 1% earners (except GE corporation) pay 38% of all federal income taxes and the bottom 50% pay almost nothing. I have never been a supporter of big bank and auto bailout programs that were initiated by the Bush administration and were continued by the Obama administration.

Oh wait, that's just your ignorance speaking. Back to reality now. We WILL NEVER escape this "crisis" without major change to our financial and political system. The more we paper over the ever-expanding bubbles, the worse it will become. More printing, more debt, more corrupt central planning economics. The dollar is on its way out of reserve currency status, just waiting for one final big push. At that point, your tune will start to change. And many, including yourself, will realize that prevailing ignorance has destroyed this nation.

The people who have destroyed this country are the people who think the government is the solution to every problem, the people who don't think social security program is ponzi scheme, the people who believe healthcare is a right. The people who always blame others instead of themselves.

 

[yappy]

Jlum, I agree with you that the average guy who goes out there and educates himself, pays taxes, and provides for his family is not to blaim for the current economic crisis; although, I think you're drinking a little too much Ron-Paulism.

BTW, the reason I asked you about Ayn Rand is because she helped Ron Paul form alot of his ideas about libertarianism. I dont agree with him (or her) on pretty much anything but I think it may speak to you if you like his ideas. Pick yourself up a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" or any of her other books if you get a chance.

"Who is John Galt?"

PS: It's sickening how most have no historical context to guide their opinions. Look at old marginal tax rates, old income schedules between the quintiles. WTF are people thinking? We're living in unpresedented times. Pragmatism instead of ideology.

 

[JLum]

The top 1% earners (except GE corporation) pay 38% of all federal income taxes and the bottom 50% pay almost nothing. I have never been a supporter of big bank and auto bailout programs that were initiated by the Bush administration and were continued by the Obama administration.

The people who have destroyed this country are the people who think the government is the solution to every problem, the people who don't think social security program is ponzi scheme, the people who believe healthcare is a right. The people who always blame others instead of themselves.

You seem to have missed everything I posted. I never said the top 1% didn't pay any taxes now did I? I never said that as a class, they should be taxed more. No, you just decided post a random fact and act like you said something. You must not understand what the "bailout programs" are, why the exist, and who they serve. GE is just one of a countless number of mega corps which pay more into special interest lobbying than federal income tax. A quick google search will teach you much of tax havens amid a faulty tax code. Many of the zombie banks, including BofA, Citi, Goldman Sachs, etc, receive tax credits back from the government after receiving massive stimulus for their fraud! I pay for that! As do other hard working individuals, most likely including yourself and many of those occupying various cities. They are sick of the fraud that has found its way into government policy. Stop blaming the workers for the crushing public debt, the fraudulent policies, the inflation, the bailouts, etc. Start blaming big global banks and the government they crawled into bed with. Free markets purge the wrong decisions by allowing failure, by teaching producers what the market doesn't want. We don't have free markets.

 

[JLum]

Jlum, I agree with you that the average guy who goes out there and educates himself, pays taxes, and provides for his family is not to blaim for the current economic crisis; although, I think you're drinking a little too much Ron-Paulism.

BTW, the reason I asked you about Ayn Rand is because she helped Ron Paul form alot of his ideas about libertarianism. I dont agree with him (or her) on pretty much anything but I think it may speak to you if you like his ideas. Pick yourself up a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" or any of her other books if you get a chance.

"Who is John Galt?"

PS: It's sickening how most have no historical context to guide their opinions. Look at old marginal tax rates, old income schedules between the quintiles. WTF are people thinking? We're living in unpresedented times. Pragmatism instead of ideology.

Greetings yappy! At least you read, an achievement in and of itself here in America!
I believe you meant to say "Who is Ron Paul?"

I'm not drinking much of anything, actually. I just happen to believe in liberty. I have read some Rand, but I am afraid you give her too much credit in light of Paul. Ron Paul is not an Objectivist. He is a Christian and stated in his book "The Revolution: A Manifesto" that while he agrees somewhat with Rand on economics and parts of personal liberty, he strongly disagrees with her on religion and selfish motive. In fact his statement "She didn't like libertarians, she was much more militant. And the founding fathers were less militant. They didn't want us to be militants." can be see below. So, be more careful with sloppy accusations of "helping Paul form many of his libertarian ideas." And no, he didn't name his son after Ayn Rand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjwuGHPilwI

Perhaps you could provide a little more of your ideology on fixing this mess?

Surely that tax slant wasn't directed at me. Mindsets in America have drastically changed for the worse, just another symptom of the sickness. The sickness spawns from the kool-aid which is brewed by corporate media and crooked politicians.

 

[SEAirLand]

The reality of what's going on is that people suffer from greed and envy. It's not just the government that is supporting big business. It's not just Wall Street that is causing financial turmoil. It's not the tax code and some "disparity" between the top 1% and the bottom 50%.

It's the fact that everyone is wanting what their neighbor has. Or, what the top income earners in the USA have. Whatever. Try and go live in another country and realize how far along we are here in the USA with regard to material goods. There is rampant waste, rampant spending beyond peoples means and above all else, rampant greed.

Sure, take us back to the 50's. Take us back to the 60's. The lower income earners will STILL be there. Just might be a larger or smaller group. But they'll still be there.

The reality is that NO ONE is ENTITLED to anything in this world, or country. People in this country are SO arrogant to believe that since we are the USA, we rule, we can have whatever we want, etc.

The REALITY is that we are not, cannot, live in that belief. What made the USA great was that we got off our but and actually worked! We strived together to accomplish something. We have lost this edge. Now we have a country of idealogical and entitlement beliefs that have taken large groups in different directions and when it doesn't work, start to blame everyone else. The banks did this. The government did this. MY f-ing neighbor did this.

Come on people.. Until WE THE PEOPLE come together and work together, nothing will change.

I was going through the grocery the other day. The lady at the check out started to complain to me (the customer) that her hard work was unappreciated. I asked her if she wanted to debate this. She looked at me and said, "how would you like to earn $7.50/hr and work hard at it as well?"

I simply said I wouldn't work for that amount and I would find or create something to make more than that and work my but off to do so.

She had no idea what I was talking about.

AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

 

[SEAirLand]

PS: sea land air? are you in the community?

ST2, former.

 

[JLum]

The reality of what's going on is that people suffer from greed and envy. It's not just the government that is supporting big business. It's not just Wall Street that is causing financial turmoil. It's not the tax code and some "disparity" between the top 1% and the bottom 50%.

It's the fact that everyone is wanting what their neighbor has. Or, what the top income earners in the USA have. Whatever. Try and go live in another country and realize how far along we are here in the USA with regard to material goods. There is rampant waste, rampant spending beyond peoples means and above all else, rampant greed.

Sure, take us back to the 50's. Take us back to the 60's. The lower income earners will STILL be there. Just might be a larger or smaller group. But they'll still be there.

The reality is that NO ONE is ENTITLED to anything in this world, or country. People in this country are SO arrogant to believe that since we are the USA, we rule, we can have whatever we want, etc.

The REALITY is that we are not, cannot, live in that belief. What made the USA great was that we got off our but and actually worked! We strived together to accomplish something. We have lost this edge. Now we have a country of idealogical and entitlement beliefs that have taken large groups in different directions and when it doesn't work, start to blame everyone else. The banks did this. The government did this. MY f-ing neighbor did this.

Come on people.. Until WE THE PEOPLE come together and work together, nothing will change.

I was going through the grocery the other day. The lady at the check out started to complain to me (the customer) that her hard work was unappreciated. I asked her if she wanted to debate this. She looked at me and said, "how would you like to earn $7.50/hr and work hard at it as well?"

I simply said I wouldn't work for that amount and I would find or create something to make more than that and work my but off to do so.

She had no idea what I was talking about.

AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

People are, were, and always will be greedy. That will never change. I would agree with just about everything else you are ranting about, although I don't expect it to change. People will continue being more ignorant and more determined to sit at home and draw their entitlements. Those in power, real wealthy power, are happy to see it happen. That is what you seem to miss.
All the best,
JL

 

[SEAirLand]

People are, were, and always will be greedy. That will never change. I would agree with just about everything else you are ranting about, although I don't expect it to change. People will continue being more ignorant and more determined to sit at home and draw their entitlements. Those in power, real wealthy power, are happy to see it happen. That is what you seem to miss.
All the best,
JL

And what you seem to "rant" about is what? That people should be protected from themselves? The government, system, country wasn't created to babysit people. It was founded on the belief, on the faith, that people will want to improve themselves. That people will want to better themselves. That people, given their inalienable rights, will prosper with hard work and creativity. THAT is what made this country strong in the past.

What we have now is a gross amount of envy, ineptitude, and entitlement which has created an epidemic of people that just want to sit back and draw their entitlements or blame others. And the "occupy wall street" movement and any sort of "program" or "bailout" of these people will not help them. Why give people something when they are NOT even willing to help themselves? All you create is a society of people who just will wait until given things and in turn, will fall prey to the other powers in this world.

 

[MRSA]

 

[JLum]

And what you seem to "rant" about is what? That people should be protected from themselves? The government, system, country wasn't created to babysit people. It was founded on the belief, on the faith, that people will want to improve themselves. That people will want to better themselves. That people, given their inalienable rights, will prosper with hard work and creativity. THAT is what made this country strong in the past.

What we have now is a gross amount of envy, ineptitude, and entitlement which has created an epidemic of people that just want to sit back and draw their entitlements or blame others. And the "occupy wall street" movement and any sort of "program" or "bailout" of these people will not help them. Why give people something when they are NOT even willing to help themselves? All you create is a society of people who just will wait until given things and in turn, will fall prey to the other powers in this world.

Apparently you have a hard time reading or a will to ignore. I wrote plenty above and much more in the blog in my signature. God given rights, an astounding Constitution, a representative Republic, and intelligent citizens are why I began writing. They are the only things which made America special. I certainly don't disagree.

Envy, ineptitude, and entitlements are here to stay. The masses are ignorant (I want you to realize why) and the elite are smiling ear-to-ear. Six Corporations own every major media (tv, radio, written) outlet."We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller, 1991

There is no easy way out now, it's gonna hurt. We have no job creation, massive debt, a fraudulent marriage between government and the Fed, and a debased currency. The "powers" of the world are happy to see America's sovereignty destroyed. Go read about David Rockefeller, J.P. Morgain and Mayer Rothschild. They own or founded the Fed, the ECB, the trilateral commission, the United Nations, the WTO, the Council on Foreign Relations, NAFTA, EU, etc. You need to understand that those are the global elite banking cartel and they have bought this country. The pain we now see has been a long time coming, with years of planning. "We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller

You don't even understand Occupy Wall Street. You want to generalize and bash without adequate knowledge. It is the direct reflection of anger and despair in this country. There are no doubt, unions and liberals who want bigger government, more regulation (which promotes further monopolization of industry), and more spending. But there are many, who want to have a shot again at prosperity. Who value those ideals you presented above. Who are sick to death of the corruption between the Fed, our economic policy, and the political circus. Good for them! I have been asked to participate in our local version and I just may. You lack understanding that not everyone can be a dentist, engineer, or accountant. What should they do? Go 50k in debt for a worthless Psychology degree? Work for minimum wage or draw a government check? Most people simply can't conquer this country. They lack the knowledge, the skill, or the capital. They are bound in a perpetual cycle of being serfs, and they have had enough. I don't like any of it, but America is comprised of service jobs that pay nothing. The whole system must change before it will get better. That won't happen unless people finally wake up, which is what we may be witnessing.

All the Best

 

[charlestweed]

You seem to have missed everything I posted. I never said the top 1% didn't pay any taxes now did I? I never said that as a class, they should be taxed more. No, you just decided post a random fact and act like you said something. You must not understand what the "bailout programs" are, why the exist, and who they serve. GE is just one of a countless number of mega corps which pay more into special interest lobbying than federal income tax. A quick google search will teach you much of tax havens amid a faulty tax code. Many of the zombie banks, including BofA, Citi, Goldman Sachs, etc, receive tax credits back from the government after receiving massive stimulus for their fraud! I pay for that! As do other hard working individuals, most likely including yourself and many of those occupying various cities. They are sick of the fraud that has found its way into government policy. Stop blaming the workers for the crushing public debt, the fraudulent policies, the inflation, the bailouts, etc. Start blaming big global banks and the government they crawled into bed with. Free markets purge the wrong decisions by allowing failure, by teaching producers what the market doesn't want. We don't have free markets.

Thanks to the top 1% earners. Because they pay most of the federal taxes, my parents didn't have to pay any. Because of the top 1% earners' generous tax contributions, the government was able to give me the college grants and helped me complete my BS degree with zero student loans. My dad never blamed others when he couldn't get good paying jobs. He blamed himself….for being an old man (52 years old when he came to the US)….for not being able to learn English fast enough. The greatest gift that my dad gave me was he brought me to America, the land of opportunities.

Thanks to the big banks (the zombie banks that you referred to). These banks loaned me the money for my dental school education. After dental school, I didn't get enough student loan money for my ortho residency; the high-interest credit cards helped me pay the rest of the educational expenses. After completing my residency, these big banks loaned me the money to start my own business, to buy a nice car and a dream house. Without these loan money, I wouldn't be where am I today…..a proud business owner.

In many other countries (including own native country), if you are poor, you will remain poor for the rest of your life. In America, everybody has equal chance at success.

 

[SEAirLand]

In America, everybody has equal chance at success.

Which is the point of my "rant" which I find funny that it was so termed by the person who is flagrantly "ranting" as well.

People like to mix words or use negative rhetoric (see above posts) in order to carry out an agenda.

Some say that we don't read, understand, etc.

But what is the true agenda? They say they understand why the country was founded this way, etc. But then throw in the disparities of where people are, etc.

You can't have it one way and still have, or want it, the other way.

As for those that don't have the knowledge, etc as pointed out above, what about the illegal immigrant that doesn't even speak english, makes something of himself and propers? Oh yeah, its called effort, desire, and not being LAZY.

I'm sorry that I don't manipulate words or attempt to legalize a redistribution of wealth. I'm sorry that I'm old school and believe that people EARN what they have and that I'm where I am because I have busted my but and NO ONE has given me what I have earned. Nor did I manipulate the system to gain something from someone else.

The Constitution was not written to provide everyone everything that they want. Healthcare isn't a right. But the Constitution was written in order to give everyone the opportunity to pursue what they want.

A "worthless" psychology degree maybe worthless to you, but to the person who dreams to help people from a behavioral stand point, it isn't worthless.

People do things not just for money which is what this whole debate is about. Who has more money than the other and why can't I "pretty please" have some of it.

If you are all about money, then go out and earn it instead of trying to enact policies that take it from others.

It might even behoove you to learn some simple economics.

 

[BombayBDS]

We would get out of this economic crisis a lot faster if each of us stop looking at others (the top 1% earners or the government) and ask when will they change things for us. And instead, each of us should start saying to ourselves “I will bear the responsibility for who I become and for the quality of my own life.”

 

[JLum]

Thanks to the top 1% earners. Because they pay most of the federal taxes, my parents didn't have to pay any. Because of the top 1% earners' generous tax contributions, the government was able to give me the college grants and helped me complete my BS degree with zero student loans. My dad never blamed others when he couldn't get good paying jobs. He blamed himself….for being an old man (52 years old when he came to the US)….for not being able to learn English fast enough. The greatest gift that my dad gave me was he brought me to America, the land of opportunities.

Thanks to the big banks (the zombie banks that you referred to). These banks loaned me the money for my dental school education. After dental school, I didn't get enough student loan money for my ortho residency; the high-interest credit cards helped me pay the rest of the educational expenses. After completing my residency, these big banks loaned me the money to start my own business, to buy a nice car and a dream house. Without these loan money, I wouldn't be where am I today…..a proud business owner.

In many other countries (including own native country), if you are poor, you will remain poor for the rest of your life. In America, everybody has equal chance at success.

So are you glad you took money from the top 1% to get a free ride or mad they have to pay taxes? Which is it?

No, the banks gave you money because they have a never-ending line of credit provided by the Federal Reserve. They also gave out trillions in loans to people who were unqualified and irresponsible then gladly gambled on derivatives with the bubbled credit, you and I are now paying for that. That credit bubble which happily provided your success has now popped. Please try to improve your understanding of our economic system. You seem to speak of your heritage as if it is an accolade on its own, I strongly disagree. It has allowed you greater opportunity in our education system than a lower middle class white male; not that I care, because merit should stand on its own. Nearly all the members of this forum work hard and hope to make it. Everyone does not have an equal chance, that is ignorance. Once again, not everyone can be doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants, engineers, professors, etc. Apparently you apply your ability to succeed in the classroom to the population as a whole. Yes some can become wealthy, but those are the minority. I am thankful for my opportunities in dentistry; such opportunities are hard to come by for the masses.

You totally missed the whole point of the discussion, yet again. You keep pointing to your own success, screaming look at me! Everyone can do it! Let's all be wealthy. Please, read Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell. That would improve your lack of understanding in economic basics.

 

[Bereno]

No, the banks gave you money because they have a never-ending line of credit provided by the Federal Reserve. You don't understand economics at all. That credit bubble that happily provided your success has now began popped. No one here needs your sentimental heritage provided as if it is an accolade on its own. Nearly all the members of this forum work hard and hope to make it. Everyone does not have an equal chance, that is ignorance. Once again, not everyone can be doctors, dentist, lawyers, accountants, engineers, professors, etc. Apparently you apply your ability to succeed in the classroom to the population as a whole.

You totally missed the whole point of the discussion, yet again. You keep pointing to your own success, screaming look at me! Everyone can do it! Let's all be wealthy. Please, read Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell. That would improve your lack of understanding in economic basics.

 

[JLum]

Which is the point of my "rant" which I find funny that it was so termed by the person who is flagrantly "ranting" as well.

People like to mix words or use negative rhetoric (see above posts) in order to carry out an agenda.

Some say that we don't read, understand, etc.

But what is the true agenda? They say they understand why the country was founded this way, etc. But then throw in the disparities of where people are, etc.

You can't have it one way and still have, or want it, the other way.

As for those that don't have the knowledge, etc as pointed out above, what about the illegal immigrant that doesn't even speak english, makes something of himself and propers? Oh yeah, its called effort, desire, and not being LAZY.

I'm sorry that I don't manipulate words or attempt to legalize a redistribution of wealth. I'm sorry that I'm old school and believe that people EARN what they have and that I'm where I am because I have busted my but and NO ONE has given me what I have earned. Nor did I manipulate the system to gain something from someone else.

The Constitution was not written to provide everyone everything that they want. Healthcare isn't a right. But the Constitution was written in order to give everyone the opportunity to pursue what they want.

A "worthless" psychology degree maybe worthless to you, but to the person who dreams to help people from a behavioral stand point, it isn't worthless.

People do things not just for money which is what this whole debate is about. Who has more money than the other and why can't I "pretty please" have some of it.

If you are all about money, then go out and earn it instead of trying to enact policies that take it from others.

It might even behoove you to learn some simple economics.

Stop getting butt hurt because I said you were ranting. There is nothing wrong with a good rant!

Do you read previous comments? I agreed with much of what you said earlier. Clearly you don't read or can't understand what is written. Now your supporting illegal immigrants? We have enough problems within the native population. Blah, blah, blah you worked hard, blah, blah. Yeah, we all "worked hard" to enter D-school. You don't have any clue what our Constitution appoints, as seen by your mindless commentary. Who is advocating redistribution of wealth? I haven't read one post in the discussion making such claims. Who is trying to "have it both ways?" What does that even mean? Try posting with clarity for the benefit of all.

More ignorance... *Facepalm* I never said psychology was bad or worthless, it is just a commonly pursued undergraduate degree. A degree becomes worthless when there are 1000 other similar degrees competing for a fraction of correlated careers. It's really quite simple. A DDS would become worthless if everyone could easily obtain a DDS. Just simple economics here; the study of supply and demand in a market. Dreams are like butt holes, we all got em'. People long to see the realization of those dreams, which is becoming scarce.

Did I say I was all about money? The false claims and empty rhetoric never stops. NONE of this debate is about taking money from those who earned it. No one here is advocating further wealth distribution. Once again, ignorance is prevailing and it is so sad to witness. Nothing you said pertains to economics, but you wouldn't understand that. When you have something of value to offer, I would love to listen. Until then, there is a plethora of information above which you seem to have missed.

 

[JLum]

Indeed, I am. Not at dentists who work hard and see success. No, that is my present path. But instead at the massive ignorance here in America. People refuse to read or think, opting instead for FOX news and NFL football. This is the downfall of all our greatness. The economic failures and corruption are just symptoms. Yes, symptoms of our sickness, great ignorance. Surely my emotion doesn't show in my writing!

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people… They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
- Thomas Jefferson

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
- Thomas Jefferson

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
- Abraham Lincoln

 

[charlestweed]

No, the banks gave you money because they have a never-ending line of credit provided by the Federal Reserve. They also gave out trillions in loans to people who were unqualified and irresponsible then gladly gambled on derivatives with the bubbled credit, you and I are now paying for that. That credit bubble which happily provided your success has now popped. Please try to improve your understanding of our economic system. You seem to speak of your heritage as if it is an accolade on its own, I strongly disagree. It has allowed you greater opportunity in our education system than a lower middle class white male; not that I care, because merit should stand on its own. Nearly all the members of this forum work hard and hope to make it. Everyone does not have an equal chance, that is ignorance. Once again, not everyone can be doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants, engineers, professors, etc. Apparently you apply your ability to succeed in the classroom to the population as a whole. Yes some can become wealthy, but those are the minority. I am thankful for my opportunities in dentistry; such opportunities are hard to come by for the masses.

You totally missed the whole point of the discussion, yet again. You keep pointing to your own success, screaming look at me! Everyone can do it! Let's all be wealthy. Please, read Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell. That would improve your lack of understanding in economic basics.

I am no expert in economics and I never pretend to be one. In my opinion, econ is a boring subject….and I can't make money majoring in econ. I don't care where the big banks get their money from. All I know is they gave me money to build my dream and I wrote them back the check (principal + interest) every month. With out them and without the initial working capital, I would fail.

I firmly believe that everybody in this country has an equal chance at success unless he/she suffers from some kind of mental and physical illnesses. Not everybody can become doctors, engineers etc because most people choose the easy ways (ie not going to school, not taking risk etc). If most people wanted to go to school to become doctors, dentists, pharmacists, engineers etc, then I don't think I would have the chance of getting accepted to dental school because I would have to compete against 10,000-100,000 or a million applicants, instead of just 1,000 applicants per school.

I am not worry about the greedy bankers and Wall Street investors whom you think has destroyed America. What scare me more is the elected officials who promise the people that "Don't worry! we, the government, will take care of you." What scare me more is the politicians who are afraid to tell the truth that "we are broke and it is time to make major cuts"….except the military budget….and this is why I will never vote for Dr. Ron Paul.

 

[JLum]

I am no expert in economics and I never pretend to be one. In my opinion, econ is a boring subject….and I can't make money majoring in econ. I don't care where the big banks get their money from. All I know is they gave me money to build my dream and I wrote them back the check (principal + interest) every month. With out them and without the initial working capital, I would fail.

I firmly believe that everybody in this country has an equal chance at success unless he/she suffers from some kind of mental and physical illnesses. Not everybody can become doctors, engineers etc because most people choose the easy ways (ie not going to school, not taking risk etc). If most people wanted to go to school to become doctors, dentists, pharmacists, engineers etc, then I don't think I would have the chance of getting accepted to dental school because I would have to compete against 10,000-100,000 or a million applicants, instead of just 1,000 applicants per school.

I am not worry about the greedy bankers and Wall Street investors whom you think has destroyed America. What scare me more is the elected officials who promise the people that "Don't worry! we, the government, will take care of you." What scare me more is the politicians who are afraid to tell the truth that "we are broke and it is time to make major cuts"….except the military budget….and this is why I will never vote for Dr. Ron Paul.

At least now you have admitted your ignorance. For the betterment of other readers, I'll explain. Banks don't get their money from anywhere. Our dollars are worthless and fractional reserve banking creates money from thin air. This is why the Fed is so powerful. Bankers own the government, they BUY their loyalty. Stop talking of things you do not understand. Not everyone can be a sought after professional because of vast variance in IQ and ability. Science proves this, not your personal opinion. If a dental school has 100 spots per year, the "best" 100 applicants will get in. This hold true even if applicant numbers were infinite. Once again, so those who can't get a 4.0 or 22 on the DAT can't be dentists; the creme of the crop will always make it.

Now you hop into GOP candidates? Your last statement is the craziest of them all! Ron Paul says we are broke and it's time to make cuts. It's time to stop the warmongering, time to balance the budget, cut special interests, remove the Fed, improve trade laws, fix trade tariffs, and shrink government. If you weren't so blind and confused you would understand that everything you advocated above fall in line with Ron Paul. He hates government trying to micromanage the economy and private lives. Please go educate yourself.

You are in for a wild ride in coming years, if you only knew. I genuinely hope you decide that economics, politics, and their intertwined relationship are worthy of your time. Until then, there is nothing to say.

 

[newpredent]

JLum is the man!

 

[2PacClone23]

To hell with Wall Street! Give em' hell!

 

[JLum]

JLum is the man!

You sir(ma'am? ), are far too kind. I am only a passionate, hard working student fighting for liberty. A tedious task; one only possible when people stop watching TV and start educating themselves. I'm afraid it will take massive pain and suffering before the majority comes to life. I honestly wish everyone on here the best. Disregard the emotion in my writing if it rubs you wrong, my intent is for the best.

All the best,
JL

 

[charlestweed]

Now you hop into GOP candidates? Your last statement is the craziest of them all! Ron Paul says we are broke and it's time to make cuts. It's time to stop the warmongering, time to balance the budget, cut special interests, remove the Fed, improve trade laws, fix trade tariffs, and shrink government. If you weren't so blind and confused you would understand that everything you advocated above fall in line with Ron Paul. He hates government trying to micromanage the economy and private lives. Please go educate yourself.

His intention to bring our troops home and end the war on terror is the reason I can’t vote for him. And He is not the only GOP candidate who promises to make all these cuts.

You are in for a wild ride in coming years, if you only knew. I genuinely hope you decide that economics, politics, and their intertwined relationship are worthy of your time. Until then, there is nothing to say.

With all of these excessive and government borrowings and spendings, I expect there will be tough road ahead regardless of who will take the White house. This is why I work as hard as I can now (when my business is still doing OK….well, it is slightly on a downward trend and I don’t expect it to move back up) to pay off my home mortgage and save as much for our children (who will inevitably face higher taxes) as possible.

 

[SEAirLand]

JLum is the man!

Jlum is not the man.

He asks us "what say we" in the opening post and when we say something, he begins a diatribe of negative wording simply to say what?? People give their opinions and then "Jlum the man" jumps on it and puts you all down ("you've shown your ignorance") because he miraculously "knows" that we are in for a "wild ride".

Jlum, you sir speak from ignorance and make assumptions of people you do not know.

Jlum, you assume that since we are all aspiring to be dentists, that this is all we have done. And know.

You sir are making naive assumptions of people who are simply giving you what you wanted, their opinion.

Sorry, it doesn't coincide with yours. And to top it off, you attempt to make people feel ignorant and belittle them in order to sway them to your line of thought.

 

[JLum]

His intention to bring our troops home and end the war on terror is the reason I can't vote for him. And He is not the only GOP candidate who promises to make all these cuts.


With all of these excessive and government borrowings and spendings, I expect there will be tough road ahead regardless of who will take the White house. This is why I work as hard as I can now (when my business is still doing OK….well, it is slightly on a downward trend and I don't expect it to move back up) to pay off my home mortgage and save as much for our children (who will inevitably face higher taxes) as possible.

Oh my friend, you have bought a great lie in our military conquests. We were led into war on faulty premise, promises of great weapons which never existed. We have spent 10 years and TRILLIONS doing nothing! Blowing up cities, taking innocent lives, then rebuilding those cities. All financed by you and I. Our military budget is nearing 1 trillion and some non-governmental estimates have us spending more than that. We spend almost 10x more than any other nation on military spending. We police the world with troops in 130+ countries at almost 900 military bases. Other nations hate our presence in their land. We have caused more extremist hatred with our warmongering. We build bases on their holy grounds and are indignant to their culture and practices. We tell other countries how to live, what to believe, and when to do it. They owe us nothing.

Imagine America with armed Chinese troops policing your public roads. With tanks and choppers looking for trouble. We would fight! Stop drinking the kool-aid, please! Wake up!

Surely you know our first president and founding father. He warned against our massive military complex.
"Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty." - George Washington

He is the only candidate who has voted and fought for the same things in the past. He has been trying those things for 35 years but people continue to vote for establishment candidates and wonder why things aren't getting better. It will be a long road, but the shortest road will come under Ron Paul's economic policy. The keynesian system under the Fed's control is what got us here.

 

[JLum]

Jlum is not the man.

He asks us "what say we" in the opening post and when we say something, he begins a diatribe of negative wording simply to say what?? People give their opinions and then "Jlum the man" jumps on it and puts you all down ("you've shown your ignorance") because he miraculously "knows" that we are in for a "wild ride".

Jlum, you sir speak from ignorance and make assumptions of people you do not know.

Jlum, you assume that since we are all aspiring to be dentists, that this is all we have done. And know.

You sir are making naive assumptions of people who are simply giving you what you wanted, their opinion.

Sorry, it doesn't coincide with yours. And to top it off, you attempt to make people feel ignorant and belittle them in order to sway them to your line of thought.

Oh stop the pity party. I put no one down. In fact, I greatly appreciate an intelligent debate. I'm sorry you said some ignorant things and I pointed them out. Opinions without facts are completely useless. My "line of thought" is simply to present facts. Please stop posting, you aren't furthering discussion.

 

[persenmi]

You sir(ma'am? ), are far too kind. I am only a passionate, hard working student fighting for liberty. A tedious task; one only possible when people stop watching TV and start educating themselves. I'm afraid it will take massive pain and suffering before the majority comes to life. I honestly wish everyone on here the best. Disregard the emotion in my writing if it rubs you wrong, my intent is for the best.

All the best,
JL

Right on bro. I know you're right becuase you understand the relationship between the federal reserve (a non-federal privately owned bank) and the economic crisis. A good way to explain it (imperfect but simple) to those who don't understand is this:

Let's play a game of monopoly. I'll be the banker. I can take out as much money as I want, even if I go completely broke, but you have to earn your money in the game. Would you be willing to play with me? OF COURSE NOT! I would win everytime. In fact, I COULDN'T LOSE! Belive it or not, this is the situation in America. Wall Street can't lose. Not because they work hard or are smarter. ITS BECAUSE THE GAME IS RIGGED! Wake up people.

Did you know the federal income tax was levied soon after the Fed came into being in 1913? Do you wonder why this is? I'll tell ya. Its because the income tax is needed to pay the interest on the debt the Gov. borrows from the Fed. So why doesn't the Gov. just print its own money and avoid paying interest to a private bank (The FED)? Interestingly enough its been tried by a few Presidents before. Can you guess who they are...Lincoln, Garfield, Kennedy...ALL ASSASINATED . Thats why.

Don't kid yourself, these criminals are ruthless murderers. They own the US Gov and every Gov around the globe for that matter. THIS IS THE BIGGEST HUMANITARIAN ISSUE OF OUR TIME AND HARDLY ANYBODY IS AWARE OF IT.

Here is a simple video to help you understand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM

 

[SEAirLand]

Oh stop the pity party. I put no one down. In fact, I greatly appreciate an intelligent debate. I'm sorry you said some ignorant things and I pointed them out. Opinions without facts are completely useless. My "line of thought" is simply to present facts. Please stop posting, you aren't furthering discussion.

Called out and again, negative rhetoric. You put no one down? Stating that someone has "shown their ignorance" is putting them down.

Grow up and debate without the name calling, negative connotations and understand that your position is not the only one, and that it can be the wrong one.

Or you can just keep turning people off from Ron Paul. Which you sir have successfully done with me.

 

[charlestweed]

Oh my friend, you have bought a great lie in our military conquests. We were led into war on faulty premise, promises of great weapons which never existed. We have spent 10 years and TRILLIONS doing nothing! Blowing up cities, taking innocent lives, then rebuilding those cities. All financed by you and I. Our military budget is nearing 1 trillion and some non-governmental estimates have us spending more than that. We spend almost 10x more than any other nation on military spending. We police the world with troops in 130+ countries at almost 900 military bases. Other nations hate our presence in their land. We have caused more extremist hatred with our warmongering. We build bases on their holy grounds and are indignant to their culture and practices. We tell other countries how to live, what to believe, and when to do it. They owe us nothing.

Imagine America with armed Chinese troops policing your public roads. With tanks and choppers looking for trouble. We would fight! Stop drinking the kool-aid, please! Wake up!

Surely you know our first president and founding father. He warned against our massive military complex.
“Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.” - George Washington

He is the only candidate who has voted and fought for the same things in the past. He has been trying those things for 35 years but people continue to vote for establishment candidates and wonder why things aren't getting better. It will be a long road, but the shortest road will come under Ron Paul's economic policy. The keynesian system under the Fed's control is what got us here.

Hussein’s defiance of UN resolutions is enough for us to put him away. You think the extremists will change their mind, put down their weapons, and be nice to us again when we bring our troops home? And who care what other nations think about us. Our government needs to do what is best for our nation. We haven’t had a major attack that ruins our economy since 9/11 because of the brave men and women who have fought hard for our freedom.

 

[SEAirLand]

Federal Reserve came into being in 1913 largely in response to a series of financial panics, particularly a severe panic in 1907.

The income tax system was first created in 1861 in an attempt to pay for the Civil war. This was a tax of 3% on those earning over $800.
This was repealed and replaced in 1862 by another income tax.
In 1894, Democrats in Congress pass the first "peace-time" tax of 2% on those earning over $4000. This taxed the top 10%.

In 1913 the 16th amendment was passed that allowed congress (both houses were Democrat majorities) to levy a permanent income tax.

In 1943 the 78th congress (Democrat majority) passed the withholding tax which increased the tax base of the population.

 

[JLum]

Hussein’s defiance of UN resolutions is enough for us to put him away. You think the extremists will change their mind, put down their weapons, and be nice to us again when we bring our troops home? And who care what other nations think about us. Our government needs to do what is best for our nation. We haven’t had a major attack that ruins our economy since 9/11 because of the brave men and women who have fought hard for our freedom.

Oh is that why? Because policing the world has helped protect our borders? Goodness... The UN is corrupt, look at who founded it. No one is required to join any global organization. It's none of our business who joins the UN, we should be running from it.

 

[SEAirLand]

Hussein’s defiance of UN resolutions is enough for us to put him away. You think the extremists will change their mind, put down their weapons, and be nice to us again when we bring our troops home? And who care what other nations think about us. Our government needs to do what is best for our nation. We haven’t had a major attack that ruins our economy since 9/11 because of the brave men and women who have fought hard for our freedom.

+1

Not to mention, all that has been sacrificed will be for naught if we just pack up and leave.

 

[SEAirLand]

Here's a good, maybe not 100% accurate, description of what you are suggesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism

 

[JLum]

+1

Not to mention, all that has been sacrificed will be for naught if we just pack up and leave.

Just stop posting! It's destroying everyone else's helpful input! What logic here, let's keeping killing and dying, spending trillions on nation building, and causing further problems. All because we entered an erroneous war. No, instead, admit failure and bring the troops home to a battered USA.

 

[persenmi]

Federal Reserve came into being in 1913 largely in response to a series of financial panics, particularly a severe panic in 1907.

The income tax system was first created in 1861 in an attempt to pay for the Civil war. This was a tax of 3% on those earning over $800.
This was repealed and replaced in 1862 by another income tax.
In 1894, Democrats in Congress pass the first "peace-time" tax of 2% on those earning over $4000. This taxed the top 10%.

In 1913 the 16th amendment was passed that allowed congress (both houses were Democrat majorities) to levy a permanent income tax.

In 1943 the 78th congress (Democrat majority) passed the withholding tax which increased the tax base of the population.

Here is another video that covers the entire history in explicit detail:

The Money Masters: How International Bankers Gained Control of America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXb-LrVkuwM