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docwatson

Private Practice O.D.
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It has been said that the doctors on the site don't offer enough constructive advice. So here I am...

I don't know about any other doctors but if you have any questions for me I'd be happy to answer them. But rule #1 is to make the questions to the point. I'd rather not type forever. 😉 Rule #2, I won't argue with anyone. Please respect my opinion. 🙂 Most of my comments will only be from my perspective and I'm not going to give you studies or statistics. Take it at face value.

Let's see how many questions I get.

( I'd appreciate it if only optometry students post in this thread. Thank you. )
 
It has been said that the doctors on the site don't offer enough constructive advice. So here I am...

I don't know about any other doctors but if you have any questions for me I'd be happy to answer them. But rule #1 is to make the questions to the point. I'd rather not type forever. 😉Rule #2, I won't argue with anyone. Please respect my opinion. 🙂Most of my comments will only be from my perspective and I'm not going to give you studies or statistics. Take it at face value.

Let's see how many questions I get.

( I'd appreciate it if only optometry students post in this thread. Thank you. )

I was asked to tell my story so here it is... Believe it or not, THIS IS THE SHORT VERSION! Could have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer… 😉

I want to tell this story to show you that it's a tough world out there and you need to be prepared for it. There are a lot of unscrupulous people in the world and many of them are ODs and OMDs. Believe me, I’m no dummy. I was an electrical engineer in my prior life for five years at IBM so it’s not like I hadn’t seen the world. I probably could write a book about my life but I don’t think anyone would even care. Anyway… Here goes…

I originally went to optometry school to become a private practice optometrist. That was my dream. I wanted to own a large practice.

I was an electrical engineer at the time at IBM having worked for five years in Texas. Really it only took me one day on the job before I realized, in a cold sweat, what the heck am I doing? I’m not corporate material! Five years of pure torture, going through yearly layoffs convinced me that engineering was ridiculous. I didn’t want my life dictated by corporate profit takers. So I needed an occupation where I could be in control. Took me two years of night classes to do my biology and chemistry preregs.

Lucky for me, the least expensive optometry school at the time, UHCO, happened to be in the same state as my residence. Unlucky for me, the admissions director was an ___ and he required me to take additional courses which made no sense. I could have made an additional $10K at my job in that time! What a jerk.

During one of my externships I was ill and the attending thought I was faking it so he told me to not come back. Odd that he didn't take it upon himself to examine my eyes since they were killing me. Anyway, the school did nothing about it. He was a big benefactor so obviously who cares about the student. I then went to a LASIK center to finish out my externship but it was a place that no one wanted to work at (that’s why there was an opening). I could see why. They were slave drivers and didn’t bother to teach anything. During my second week I had to move my family: my wife, my 80 yo mother-in-law, and my newborn to a new residence and we miscalculated on the time. It took us until 4 am, I overslept, showed up at "work" two hours late, and I was let go again. I finished my externships 3 months late.


Oh well. I graduated in ’99.

My first real job was in Houston at Eyemasters. The "owner" of the doctor side owned five locations and he promised me an ownership position after two years. I soon grew weary of the commercialism, the lack of equipment, the shuttling around, and what I was certain of a broken promise if I kept that up since there was nothing written. I quit after only 60 days. Made me feel ill since I wasn’t sure what to do next.

I had no idea what I was going to do but decided to work for myself by filling in up and down the Texas Gulf Coast. Turned out to be a pretty good gig except that I had to travel a lot. It was a good experience since I got to see a lot of commercial and private practices and how they ran. I advertised my availability and I was generally able to keep up the work assignments with no interruptions for a full year.

One doc tried to sell me his office which interestingly was a Vision Source in the Houston underground. Boy was that a hard sell! Looked like a good opportunity but it seemed like he was really trying the hard press trying to get me to agree to his over-inflated price. I almost went for it. Glad I didn't. One month later I heard he sold the practice and moved to California. An odd get away huh? Then shortly thereafter I read an article from the Texas Optometry board that this doctor lost his license. Not sure what the reason was thinking back on it but I remember that it reflected very negatively on the practice…

We then decided to move to Colorado to work for a Wal-Mart in the middle of nowhere USA. Yeah, it was spectacular since our house was at 8,000 feet. It had an outdoor hot tub complete with elk that came through the back yard regularly. It was awesome sitting under a clear moonless night in mid-winter.

I worked six days per week and it was miserable. I thought I could do this for a few years and build up some savings so I could buy a practice. The store manager was a jerk since he couldn't keep his little troll self out of my office. He thought he ran this little town and of course he didn't want some punk optometrist telling him what to do. But I did everything I could to try to build that practice by even working WITH the optical because we could mutually expand our businesses. Hey, I was into making money right? He opened all my mail with his excuse being the anthrax scare at the time. Funny that he didn't open the bank's mail. I told him that I had confidential information that should not be tampered with. Didn't matter. The optical personnel came into my office at all hours getting trial contacts which was ridiculous so I piled up all the contacts in the optical after a couple of months of that crap. The troll came in whenever he felt like it to remove things from my walls telling me that it was interfering with their cameras. Whenever there was a disagreement with a patient, of course he took the customer's side 100%. He even griped at me when a stupid volunteer complained about where I was parking. Yeah, okay, 20 acres of empty parking wasn't enough for a town of 12,000 people. Long story short: New optical manager comes in, acts like I'm the devil, conspires to get me fired. She was a wacko! Turns out my good friend from optometry school worked with this optical manager (they were good friends) and the store manager behind the scenes for six months and she was installed as the next optometrist in my place. That’s right, they conspired to have me fired. She always wanted to live in the area and apparently it didn't matter that she kicked her friend to the street. She is still there.

So I sat in our house for three months looking for more opportunities. Felt that Colorado wasn’t it so we found a great practice for sale in Georgia. Saw twice the national average of patients a year but had a high percentage of VSP. Ugh. But I thought it could be a good practice to build up the medical side. Had to work for this guy for two years and he would sell to me. It was awful. I had to sit with his horrible wife in the back and she was a pig who had a really bad attitude. The doc had congestive heart failure and it was part of the deal that I hire him so that it would carry him to Medicare age. Long story that I won’t get into. Anyway, he was quite ill originally then it seemed that he was getting better by the day. He was an arrogant SOB who changed the contract is seemed daily for no other reason than the felt like it. “Don't like it? Then walk out.” was his response. He sure was a nice guy in the beginning—like a Southern Gentleman—but I sure learned the true him. Like I had any thoughts of leaving after investing so much time and energy! Long story short: He pulled out at the closing table (at the 11th hour) telling me he changed his mind. Sure we had a contract and I could have sued him but it would have meant living like a street person so I could prove that we were damaged severely. Yeah, we came THAT close to buying this place.

Turns out, he shafted a couple before us, and he did the same thing to one other doctor after me. But he opened right across the street so that may have backfired on him.


It took me about a month to recover from severe depression. I just suddenly snapped out of it. I then spent the next 4 months filling in at various places from Augusta to Savannah. In the meantime I was scouring the trade magazines, the AOA news, and the internet looking for another practice to buy. I searched in 25 states and went through at least 100 offers. We took about 8 seriously. Most offers were just ridiculous. It’s really interesting what doctors will tell you to inflate their bottom line. Often they will tell you that they wrote off thousands from various things like their furniture in their houses. Incredible how many docs took me for a sap.

One doctor here in Connecticut actually made me fly out to the state (from GA), seemed like we practically had a deal, when they told me “oh by the way, we just installed a new phone system, that will be $5,000 more”. No thanks. Good bye. (it was more to it than just that but it illustrated how sleezy this guy was—I didn’t see this deal going anywhere).

Just missed a million dollar practice in Ohio where the doctor died suddenly. The wolves really come out of their dens when this happens.

Looked at places in Chicago, Pennsylvania, Virginia, California, Washington, and each one of these places just had ridiculous offers or the sleeze factor was too high. Then we finally found a great offer in CT. The owners appeared to be ready to sell, the office was really nice, and the patient base was great. But… This deal almost didn’t go through either at the closing table because the sellers let the frame inventory run dry. So I would have owned an optical with zero frames. We worked that one out fortunately. I told them point blank, this is the way it’s going to be or no deal. My attorney looked at me like I was nuts. I was fully prepared to walk away. I had been screwed so many times I knew what it felt like to hit bottom so this was nothing new. Learn the power of walking away. It works. Although I believe I way over paid, it has worked out in the end.

We are now the proud owners of a million dollar practice.

Yeah, I admit I made a lot of mistakes. Maybe I was a bit too trusting—at least in my younger days. I’m not that way now believe me. I don’t trust anyone, but maybe that’s not good either. Maybe I could just say I ran into some incredibly bad luck. I like to think it was this to preserve my precious ego. Looking back, I’m not sure what I could have done differently or if I could have seen the signs and avoided certain disasters. Fortunately, I never lost huge sums of money except maybe my time and energy. The practice in GA did cost us quite a bit since we had to hire attorneys to put together the deal and the jerk owner ran up the bill since he kept making changes. But it wasn’t enough to keep us from buying a large practice. Anyway… I was persistent in getting what I wanted. I wasn’t about to let anything get in the way of my dream.

My advice to you: Take chances since you’ll never really live without doing it and don’t ever give up on your dreams.
 
I haven't gotten many questions and it's odd. Any students care to ask me a question? What do you think of my history?
 
docwatson,

Interesting story, something we can all learn from. I'll ask some questions:

1. What steps can one take to avoid being screwed over so many times?

2. How early in school should one begin to phone and meet with doctors with practices for sale or hiring an associate?

3. You mentioned you filled in for other doctors and it wasn't the best but certainly not the worst. Does opportunity exist for a person to find 5 days of fill-in work per week? Obviously it's location dependent.

4. How do most private docs feel about a new associate making $50K-60K supplementing income at a corporate location or another private office 1-2 times per week?

5. When you took over your current practice did you make any significant changes to it? i.e. policy, scope of practice, building renovations, etc.
 
Anytime someone breaches a contract, you can sue for specific performance. You don't have to be living on the streets to show that you've been damaged. I can't believe how disgusting people can be. Maybe I'm just too naive.

1) What were your resources to look for a practice? (which internet site, newspaper, etc.)
2) When you moved from GA to CT did you have to sit for the CT state boards?
 
Anytime someone breaches a contract, you can sue for specific performance. You don't have to be living on the streets to show that you've been damaged. I can't believe how disgusting people can be. Maybe I'm just too naive.

1) What were your resources to look for a practice? (which internet site, newspaper, etc.)
2) When you moved from GA to CT did you have to sit for the CT state boards?

First though, you have to make sure you have some kind of contract in WRITING! If they won't write it down, you know you're in trouble from day one. Anyone can promise you you can buy in right away to get you to take a position and then back out when it comes time to pay up. I've seen this happen to friends of mine time and time again.
 
Yes, you are right. To be safe, any promises made should be in writing. Although, some minor contracts can be oral and can be brought into court.
 
I haven't gotten many questions and it's odd. Any students care to ask me a question? What do you think of my history?

How busy can your practice be? You post a lot and long posts. Do you see patients?
 
How busy can your practice be? You post a lot and long posts. Do you see patients?

TO EVERYONE...

While I realize that this thread can spark some conversation, do you mind it being limited to just me giving out advice? There's plenty of space here for everyone on other threads (you can post a million threads if you would like). Can I have this one? Thanks.😀


Also, I would appreciate it if you could keep the belittling comments to a minimum. I'm not posting here to take abuse. I'm here to provide help for those who may have questions about the profession. Thank you for understanding.
 
Anytime someone breaches a contract, you can sue for specific performance. You don't have to be living on the streets to show that you've been damaged. I can't believe how disgusting people can be. Maybe I'm just too naive.

1) What were your resources to look for a practice? (which internet site, newspaper, etc.)
2) When you moved from GA to CT did you have to sit for the CT state boards?

If I turn around and buy another practice that is the same size, how much damage can I sue for? The damage has to be substantial enough to pay for the attorney and to make it worth it myself. Ideally it would be best to show that because of the failed purchase, I couldn't make a decent living, and I would have had to stick around for a couple of years for anything to materialize. It wasn't worth pursuing because for one thing I wasn't interested in staying in GA. No offense to anyone in GA. I had a lot of personal reasons for leaving the state. Plus, I'm a go-getter. I wanted to buy a place right away.

I didn't have to sit for an exam when going from GA to CT. But I did when I went from CO to GA. It was a jurisprudence exam--no big deal.
 
TO EVERYONE...

While I realize that this thread can spark some conversation, do you mind it being limited to just me giving out advice? There's plenty of space here for everyone on other threads (you can post a million threads if you would like). Can I have this one? Thanks.😀

Also, I would appreciate it if you could keep the belittling comments to a minimum. I'm not posting here to take abuse. I'm here to provide help for those who may have questions about the profession. Thank you for understanding.

Sorry, didn't mean to abuse you. You just seem to be the only doctor who has the time to be here on evry chat most of the time.
 
Anytime someone breaches a contract, you can sue for specific performance. You don't have to be living on the streets to show that you've been damaged. I can't believe how disgusting people can be. Maybe I'm just too naive.

1) What were your resources to look for a practice? (which internet site, newspaper, etc.)
2) When you moved from GA to CT did you have to sit for the CT state boards?

One other thing, contracts ideally should be negotiated from neutral territories. I made a mistake of perusing this deal while working for the seller. If things don't work out, and/or we don't like each other (which is what happened), I also lose my job. But oh well. In the past!
 
Sorry, didn't mean to abuse you. You just seem to be the only doctor who has the time to be here on evry chat most of the time.

You know, it only takes but a couple of minutes to read a post and respond to it.

I'm only here to help. 😀

(Hopefully I can stay out of the political threads and keep people from badgering me--I'd rather just help others without having to respond negatively)
 
Exactly, its either stare at the wall for a minute waiting for the next patient or type a couple of paragraphs.
 
Exactly, its either stare at the wall for a minute waiting for the next patient or type a couple of paragraphs.

Me? I just don't see patients.

Except on Saturdays. Saturdays are busy.

But not today...and its lunch...and I figured out how to use the store's wifi.
 
docwatson,

Interesting story, something we can all learn from. I'll ask some questions:

1. What steps can one take to avoid being screwed over so many times?

2. How early in school should one begin to phone and meet with doctors with practices for sale or hiring an associate?

3. You mentioned you filled in for other doctors and it wasn't the best but certainly not the worst. Does opportunity exist for a person to find 5 days of fill-in work per week? Obviously it's location dependent.

4. How do most private docs feel about a new associate making $50K-60K supplementing income at a corporate location or another private office 1-2 times per week?

5. When you took over your current practice did you make any significant changes to it? i.e. policy, scope of practice, building renovations, etc.

Appreciate your questions. I PM'd you. If anyone would like to read my comments to these questions, please PM me.

Thanks.
 
Me? I just don't see patients.

Except on Saturdays. Saturdays are busy.

But not today...and its lunch...and I figured out how to use the store's wifi.

I took lunch down the street so I could watch college football while I ate. :horns: The bartender kept trying to get me to drink beer.. and I soooo wanted that beer. But, figured OD with beer breath after lunch was probably a bad idea. (even if my team IS winning) 😉
 
How busy can your practice be? You post a lot and long posts. Do you see patients?

These kind of posts aren't really constructive. If you had wanted to ask this question in a nice way... it could have been, "how many patients do you see on an average day ? " "do you usually work weekends" "what is your typical day like? " etc
 
Hi Docwatson
Just wanted to know your thoughts on treating ocular hypertensives. Is it best to be conservative or wait for more fundus signs/higher PSD?
I know it's a pretty contentious issue.
Thanks!
 
Hi Docwatson
Just wanted to know your thoughts on treating ocular hypertensives. Is it best to be conservative or wait for more fundus signs/higher PSD?
I know it's a pretty contentious issue.
Thanks!

I sent you a PM. Anyone who wants the information, please PM me.

Hope you all understand that with the multitude of questions that I'm getting it would be difficult to post the answers here without turning this thread into a huge free-for-all. We would be getting debates on all kinds of subjects and that's just not why I decided to do this. I wanted to keep this limited so as to not overwhelm the audience and keep the questions coming. If this thread was the conglomeration of the entire website, what would be the point? Hope everyone understands.

I'm thinking about starting up a small forum with my answers so everyone can have access to them.
 
I am currently doing a project for my business communications class about my career path of choice. I am looking for some insight into the optometry world.

What does an average day in the office include for you?

What are the top 3 things you love about being an optometrist?

And the top 3 things you don't enjoy?

I will also be looking to going into a private practice, do you have any tips on how to prepare for this? (i.e. taking more business classes? having a good network of people in the field?)

Also what are the differences in working for a retail type store verus a private practice?

Feel free to add in any additional information that you feel would be helpful to me as a student looking to be an optometrist. I think its great you are on here to help out people like me 😀
 
Wow, I can't even imagine living through that ordeal. Congratulations on your practice.

When you were searching for the right practice to buy, for what reasons did you stay away from opening cold and building from scratch?

Thanks!
Jeff
 
These kind of posts aren't really constructive. If you had wanted to ask this question in a nice way... it could have been, "how many patients do you see on an average day ? " "do you usually work weekends" "what is your typical day like? " etc

Nice way? You aren't speaking to children doctor. It would do well for you to remember that.

With claims of having a $1.2 million dollar practice, I am curious as to how the doctor has time to post as much as he does.

That's a reasonable question.
 
Nice way? You aren't speaking to children doctor. It would do well for you to remember that.

I know exactly who I'm speaking to. I was responding to a post that was reported for being insulting. Our goal here is constructive conversation.

I'm a senior moderator of this website and have been here since it's inception. I don't appreciate your tone.
 
Hi, I was wondering if one of the ODs here can tell me what are the pros/cons of group vs. solo practice (for those ODs who have been in both settings)? Thanks!
 
Hi, I was wondering if one of the ODs here can tell me what are the pros/cons of group vs. solo practice (for those ODs who have been in both settings)? Thanks!

Do you mean working in a group or solo practice, growing your practice so that it turns into a group, merging a practice with another one to form a partnership/group??
 
Doc Watson, great story...your trials and tribulations resonate perfectly with me as I'm going through the same torture in I-banking and am looking to optometry as my answer.

My question:

you mentioned the two years of prereq's that you had to endure - looking back on it was there an easier way of getting these classes out of the way? Or even a way to get them out of the way completley or partially by doing something like going to a caribbean school?

**
I have a B.S. - M.S. and have calcs, stats, finances, bio's, but not the chems, or physics. I'm eagerly awaiting your words so I can start my plan

P.S. Thanks for making yourself available and trust that your advice will impact lives.
 
Nice way? You aren't speaking to children doctor. It would do well for you to remember that.

With claims of having a $1.2 million dollar practice, I am curious as to how the doctor has time to post as much as he does.

That's a reasonable question.


Oh the joys of reading the cocky anonymous post.😎
 
Doc Watson, great story...your trials and tribulations resonate perfectly with me as I'm going through the same torture in I-banking and am looking to optometry as my answer.

My question:

you mentioned the two years of prereq's that you had to endure - looking back on it was there an easier way of getting these classes out of the way? Or even a way to get them out of the way completley or partially by doing something like going to a caribbean school?

**
I have a B.S. - M.S. and have calcs, stats, finances, bio's, but not the chems, or physics. I'm eagerly awaiting your words so I can start my plan

P.S. Thanks for making yourself available and trust that your advice will impact lives.

There aren't any caribean OD schools. Puerto Rico is the easiest to get into, but I hope your Spanish is good.
 
DocWatson,

I think I meant in general, if you were to pick either having your own clinic (solo practice) or joining with some other optometrists in a group practice, which one would you pick and why. Thanks again and hope that's a little clearer?
 
Hi Dr. Watson,

Thanks for taking the time to help us out. I have been looking on the internet for reasons/advantages to obtaining a residency after completing the OD. If it's not required like it is for medical school, are there any benefits of that route at all?

Thanks!
 
I know it doesn't look like I'm responding but really I am. I send out PMs to everyone who asks a question to keep the thread from being a jumbled mass opposing of comments.

So keep the questions coming!

Glad to help... 😀
 
I know it doesn't look like I'm responding but really I am. I send out PMs to everyone who asks a question to keep the thread from being a jumbled mass opposing of comments.

So keep the questions coming!

Glad to help... 😀

By PMing everyone, you prevent those of us browsing the forum from learning from your answers, without repeating every question to you personally.
 
By PMing everyone, you prevent those of us browsing the forum from learning from your answers, without repeating every question to you personally.

I also said earlier that if anyone wants to know anything to please PM me. I will forward the posts.

I am not going to get into a big argument on this thread like so many other threads seem to degenerate into. So far it's been working fine.

Does this make sense? Hope so...
 
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