OD or PharmD

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texas110477

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10+ Year Member
Just wondering who makes more coming out of school. I know pharmacy students coming out of school could start in retail making 100-120K. Can OD make 100-120K coming out of school, say working for walmart? Just wondering b/c in both professions students will be >100,000 in student loan debt.
 
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texas110477 said:
Just wondering who makes more coming out of school. I know pharmacy students coming out of school could start in retail making 100-120K. Can OD make 100-120K coming out of school, say working for walmart? Just wondering b/c in both professions students will be >100,000 in student loan debt.
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Do you want to deal with customers or patients all day?
 
blysssful said:
:smack:
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Salary is a relevant question since student debt is a hot issue.
Is investing 150k worth it for an OD?

I met an OD who worked at wal-mart 5-6 days/week out of school...140k.
SO it's possible to make equal or greater to recent PharmDs.

If your goal is private practice, associates are hired at about =/<70k because the practice can't support a new OD with a high salary. And hopefully you have in writing you will be buying into the practice in a few years. Very few PharmDs own their own pharmacy or practice.
 
texas110477 said:
Just wondering who makes more coming out of school. I know pharmacy students coming out of school could start in retail making 100-120K. Can OD make 100-120K coming out of school, say working for walmart? Just wondering b/c in both professions students will be >100,000 in student loan debt.
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Pharmacist's usually are employees if I'm correct in assuming. For the most part most Optometrists are Independent Contractors (wally-world), or self-employeed. As a pharmacist you're most likely to have your corporate taxes paid, disability, life-insurance, health insurance, vacation days paid for, and paid time off. I would have to say that is at least $10-15k/yr additional income as a perk working as a pharmacist to have benefits.

As an Optometrist you are taxed much higher as an IC or self-employed. There are OD's out there that work for the government, schools or other doctors. You can make 100k out of school, but it is difficult, and have to find the right area. But this is becoming more and more difficult with inflation (business costs), insurance reimbursements flat or sinking, three new OD schools already saturating a half full cup of water supersaturated with sugar.

I do like Optometry, and its a great job. But if i had to do it over, I would have went to Pharmacy school for a safe job, and benefits (I originally was a pharmacy major). I could never be a dentist. Most patients do not come to the OD for health-care, they come for a "product."
 
Ryan_eyeball said:
I do like Optometry, and its a great job. But if i had to do it over, I would have went to Pharmacy school for a safe job, and benefits (I originally was a pharmacy major). I could never be a dentist. Most patients do not come to the OD for health-care, they come for a "product."
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Do you think pharmacy is a safe job? What role do you see technology playing in pharmacy? I already see a lot of drugs being dispensed by computers.

Pharmacists are looking to expand their prescriptive authority. Look at Canada. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...pharma21/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth/home

Maybe pharmacists will be the new PCP?
 
Maybe pharmacists will be the new PCP?[/quote]

Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Samus2008 said:
Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The testicle thing is a mode. :laugh: 👍
 
Samus2008 said:
Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I meant they are trying to expand their scope of practice and want to take a bite out of the MD's pie.

PAs/NPs already perform most of that, so you're out of luck.
 
It seems to me that optometrists have a bit more autonomy than pharmacists. There is no doubt that pharmacists make more than optometrists right out of th gate, however. It's pretty much impossible to open up an independent pharmacy anymore, but I still see independent optometric offices. So there are positives and negatives with both choices.

But if you're strictly going by salary, pharmacists make more. Once you get your license, an RPh can sign on to work at Walgreens or CVS and make $55/hour. There is plenty of overtime available too.
 
blysssful said:
:smack:
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Students want to know what their salary potential will be once graduated. Some might not choose OD if they will not be able to pay off a loan of >100,000 and might choose pharmacy b/c you instantly make 50/hour once you graduate. Both OD and PharmD can work in retail, but which one can pay of the loan the fastest and has job security is what new grads want.
 
jmnj06 said:
Students want to know what their salary potential will be once graduated. Some might not choose OD if they will not be able to pay off a loan of >100,000 and might choose pharmacy b/c you instantly make 50/hour once you graduate. Both OD and PharmD can work in retail, but which one can pay of the loan the fastest and has job security is what new grads want.
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Of course students want to know about their salary potential. Its a common concern--one that's been addressed quite a bit.
 
blazenmadison said:
Do you think pharmacy is a safe job? What role do you see technology playing in pharmacy? I already see a lot of drugs being dispensed by computers.
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Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?
 
jmnj06 said:
Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?
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Optometrists do more than just refract.
 
jmnj06 said:
Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?
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We have machines that can do this (autorefractors), but unfortunately not all losses of vision are due to refractive error. Also, it's up for debate how accurate the machines are, especially for patients with higher refractive errors. You need to start looking at the eye from the cornea back to the retina to find the reason why the vision seems blurry. Autorefractors also don't consider the binocular status of the eyes...if someone has convergence insufficiency and gets headaches when they read, an autorefractor's not going to be able to sort that out for them...especially if they're far sighted!
 
jmnj06 said:
Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?
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Sadly enough, one of our professors told us that walmart IS starting to put these silly machines in their stores. Sit down, read some letters and it'll either spit out a "20/20, you do not need an eye exam!" or "You should see an optometrist!" 😱:scared:
 
JMU07 said:
Sadly enough, one of our professors told us that walmart IS starting to put these silly machines in their stores. Sit down, read some letters and it'll either spit out a "20/20, you do not need an eye exam!" or "You should see an optometrist!" 😱:scared:
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I do not see how this could happen in any state. Saying, "You do not need an eye exam" would be a medical decision making process. Walmart is not licensed to practice Optometry in any state as far as I know. I do not advocate the use of visual screening outside of any wal-mart or any other commercial entity.

There is way too much subjective consideration into a prescription that I will write. A machine would not understand that over minus of myopes is going to be detrimental.
 
Ryan_eyeball said:
I do not see how this could happen in any state. Saying, "You do not need an eye exam" would be a medical decision making process. Walmart is not licensed to practice Optometry in any state as far as I know. I do not advocate the use of visual screening outside of any wal-mart or any other commercial entity.

There is way too much subjective consideration into a prescription that I will write. A machine would not understand that over minus of myopes is going to be detrimental.
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Exactly. I have no idea how Walmart would do this either, but evidently it's in the works. Whether or not it'll actually get to the stores is another story... but there is SO MUCH wrong with this idea!! We spent the rest of that lecture arguing about it. Although I don't know what's to argue other than that it's a terrible idea.
 
JMU07 said:
Exactly. I have no idea how Walmart would do this either, but evidently it's in the works. Whether or not it'll actually get to the stores is another story... but there is SO MUCH wrong with this idea!! We spent the rest of that lecture arguing about it. Although I don't know what's to argue other than that it's a terrible idea.
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Yet new OD grads line up in droves to work for wally. Disgraceful.
 
The problem with technology is that in the process, there is a human being (who does make mistakes) inputing the data and a human being on the recieving end.

I have seen a lot of technology that fail because it tries to replace the pharmacist or health care professional rather than implement and improve the process of it. I also stress a lot of times to people who mention technology replacing pharmacists that a lot of drug errors and medical errors are due to over information.

With that said, I think outsourcing is a more serious problem than technology. Technology when done correctly can reduce costs (computer data keeping), improve efficacy, and increase profits allowing for more pharmacies to open. Outsourcing however has put a lot of people out of a job. We now have lawyers in India reviewing documents and practicing radiology medicine.

In the end, pharmacists and other primary care providers (OD) are here to stay because they are suppose to be cost saving to begin with. I know the errors that I catch daily are saving my hospital millions in potential lawsuits (in coagulation alone). Heck, just by doing renal dosing which optimizes drug therapy, I am reducing drug costs (For example, MD orders vanco 1 g q12 hours which is two bags, but I got it reduced to q24 hrs based on Crcl, saving the hospital one bag of vanco). That alone pays for my salary and saving medicaid/medicare millions from toxicities/side effects, reduced bed days, and superbugs.

Oh yeah, reading IndianaOD post, I almost forgot that the greatest threat is an oversuppy of healthcare professionals. I am sick of new pharmacy schools opening up when we have saturation in some places.
 
Aznfarmerboi said:
Oh yeah, reading IndianaOD post, I almost forgot that the greatest threat is an oversuppy of healthcare professionals. I am sick of new pharmacy schools opening up when we have saturation in some places.
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All allied health fields will have new schools opening up b/c that seems like the only stability in this economy. You probably wont find a job where you graduated, but you will find one if you look a couple of hours away. Other professions like engineering, finance and other sectors are just laying people off. So that is why people are rushing to get into health care b/c there is a hope for stability.
 
jersey9000 said:
All allied health fields will have new schools opening up b/c that seems like the only stability in this economy. You probably wont find a job where you graduated, but you will find one if you look a couple of hours away. Other professions like engineering, finance and other sectors are just laying people off. So that is why people are rushing to get into health care b/c there is a hope for stability.
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And these are all facts ? 🙄
 
Samus2008 said:
Maybe pharmacists will be the new PCP?
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Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]


Dude, this is one wicked response! 😀
 
Samus2008 said:
Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Funny response, but there's a grain of truth in it.

I don't see pharm's as the new PCP's when you also have these health clinics being installed in the pharmacies too.

Why pay a pharm $100k to listen to someone's heart and check BP when you can pay a NP or PA $70k to do the same thing?
 
Taurus said:
Funny response, but there's a grain of truth in it.

I don't see pharm's as the new PCP's when you also have these health clinics being installed in the pharmacies too.

Why pay a pharm $100k to listen to someone's heart and check BP when you can pay a NP or PA $70k to do the same thing?
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How do you arrive at 17000 hours? Lets consider a MD who is a GP with only the required total of 5 years. I'm guessing there is some liberal use of the term "clinic experience".
 
IndianaOD said:
How do you arrive at 17000 hours? Lets consider a MD who is a GP with only the required total of 5 years. I'm guessing there is some liberal use of the term "clinic experience".
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5000 (during medical school years) + 12000 (assuming 3 year residency) = 17000

You can find articles in pubmed talking about 5000 hours for medical students.

While standards for the Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) are presently being devised, nursing organizations currently recommend DNP students complete just 1,000 hours of "practical experience" after obtaining a Bachelor's degree. Physicians complete more than 12 times that amount during their graduate education.​
 
IndianaOD said:
How do you arrive at 17000 hours? Lets consider a MD who is a GP with only the required total of 5 years. I'm guessing there is some liberal use of the term "clinic experience".
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WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT??? There has been NO training for General Practice since 1970 (I wasn't even born yet!)
Since 1971, you have to do Family Practice, which is a 3 years residency. Only ancillary para-professionals (OD's, DDS, etc get away with less than 3 years residency)
 
Taurus said:
Funny response, but there's a grain of truth in it.

I don't see pharm's as the new PCP's when you also have these health clinics being installed in the pharmacies too.

Why pay a pharm $100k to listen to someone's heart and check BP when you can pay a NP or PA $70k to do the same thing?
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Very true and one of the things I always stress to new students coming in.
 
IamMDMBA said:
WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT??? There has been NO training for General Practice since 1970 (I wasn't even born yet!)
Since 1971, you have to do Family Practice, which is a 3 years residency. Only ancillary para-professionals (OD's, DDS, etc get away with less than 3 years residency)
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Are you suggesting that DDS training is inadequate?

Care to tell us what you (or organized medicine) know about dentistry that dentists are lacking in their education?
 
What's a Kansas Wildcat? Is that like a Jayhawk?? Or did you mean Kentucky? Either way, I'll agree with the part about them sucking.
 
eyestrain said:
What's a Kansas Wildcat? Is that like a Jayhawk?? Or did you mean Kentucky? Either way, I'll agree with the part about them sucking.
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While we're talking about Jayhawks, can someone tell me what the heck rock chalk Jayhawk means?!?!
 
eyestrain said:
What's a Kansas Wildcat? Is that like a Jayhawk?? Or did you mean Kentucky? Either way, I'll agree with the part about them sucking.
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:laugh: I completely screwed that up.

I did mean a Kentucky Wildcat. And i guess a Kentucky wildcat is a cat from Kentucky that is extremely wild.
 
jmnj06 said:
Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?
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jesus. was this for real? I sure hope not.:diebanana:
 
I'm a pharmacy student and trust me I would recommend you to do Optometry because Optometrist get more respect from the general public and have more autonomy. Optometrists seem to be more satisfied with their jobs than pharmacists from my observation.
 
JackFruitLover said:
I'm a pharmacy student and trust me I would recommend you to do Optometry because Optometrist get more respect from the general public and have more autonomy. Optometrists seem to be more satisfied with their jobs than pharmacists from my observation.
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Troll? Come on you are a student of pharmacy, how can you judge a field and say they are less satisfied as another? Have you polled people weather they have more repect for their optometrist over their pharmacist?
 
JackFruitLover said:
I'm a pharmacy student and trust me I would recommend you to do Optometry because Optometrist get more respect from the general public and have more autonomy. Optometrists seem to be more satisfied with their jobs than pharmacists from my observation.
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1) Not going to take the bait
2) If you don't like your career choice then quit and do something else
3) Thanks for your observation 🙄
 
JackFruitLover said:
I'm a pharmacy student and trust me I would recommend you to do Optometry because Optometrist get more respect from the general public and have more autonomy. Optometrists seem to be more satisfied with their jobs than pharmacists from my observation.
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lol sarcasm.
 
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