OD or PharmD

This forum made possible through the generous support of
SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

texas110477

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
22
Reaction score
0

Members don't see this ad.
Just wondering who makes more coming out of school. I know pharmacy students coming out of school could start in retail making 100-120K. Can OD make 100-120K coming out of school, say working for walmart? Just wondering b/c in both professions students will be >100,000 in student loan debt.
 
Last edited:

EyeWitness

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
129
Reaction score
0
Just wondering who makes more coming out of school. I know pharmacy students coming out of school could start in retail making 100-120K. Can OD make 100-120K coming out of school, say working for walmart? Just wondering b/c in both professions students will be >100,000 in student loan debt.



Do you want to deal with customers or patients all day?
 

blazenmadison

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
432
Reaction score
5

Salary is a relevant question since student debt is a hot issue.
Is investing 150k worth it for an OD?

I met an OD who worked at wal-mart 5-6 days/week out of school...140k.
SO it's possible to make equal or greater to recent PharmDs.

If your goal is private practice, associates are hired at about =/<70k because the practice can't support a new OD with a high salary. And hopefully you have in writing you will be buying into the practice in a few years. Very few PharmDs own their own pharmacy or practice.
 

Ryan_eyeball

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
427
Reaction score
43
Just wondering who makes more coming out of school. I know pharmacy students coming out of school could start in retail making 100-120K. Can OD make 100-120K coming out of school, say working for walmart? Just wondering b/c in both professions students will be >100,000 in student loan debt.

Pharmacist's usually are employees if I'm correct in assuming. For the most part most Optometrists are Independent Contractors (wally-world), or self-employeed. As a pharmacist you're most likely to have your corporate taxes paid, disability, life-insurance, health insurance, vacation days paid for, and paid time off. I would have to say that is at least $10-15k/yr additional income as a perk working as a pharmacist to have benefits.

As an Optometrist you are taxed much higher as an IC or self-employed. There are OD's out there that work for the government, schools or other doctors. You can make 100k out of school, but it is difficult, and have to find the right area. But this is becoming more and more difficult with inflation (business costs), insurance reimbursements flat or sinking, three new OD schools already saturating a half full cup of water supersaturated with sugar.

I do like Optometry, and its a great job. But if i had to do it over, I would have went to Pharmacy school for a safe job, and benefits (I originally was a pharmacy major). I could never be a dentist. Most patients do not come to the OD for health-care, they come for a "product."
 

blazenmadison

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
432
Reaction score
5
I do like Optometry, and its a great job. But if i had to do it over, I would have went to Pharmacy school for a safe job, and benefits (I originally was a pharmacy major). I could never be a dentist. Most patients do not come to the OD for health-care, they come for a "product."

Do you think pharmacy is a safe job? What role do you see technology playing in pharmacy? I already see a lot of drugs being dispensed by computers.

Pharmacists are looking to expand their prescriptive authority. Look at Canada. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...pharma21/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth/home

Maybe pharmacists will be the new PCP?
 

Samus2008

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
113
Reaction score
0
Maybe pharmacists will be the new PCP?[/quote]

Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

e p i c

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
165
Reaction score
1
Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The testicle thing is a mode. :laugh: :thumbup:
 

blazenmadison

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
432
Reaction score
5
Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I meant they are trying to expand their scope of practice and want to take a bite out of the MD's pie.

PAs/NPs already perform most of that, so you're out of luck.
 

meister

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
2,154
Reaction score
359
It seems to me that optometrists have a bit more autonomy than pharmacists. There is no doubt that pharmacists make more than optometrists right out of th gate, however. It's pretty much impossible to open up an independent pharmacy anymore, but I still see independent optometric offices. So there are positives and negatives with both choices.

But if you're strictly going by salary, pharmacists make more. Once you get your license, an RPh can sign on to work at Walgreens or CVS and make $55/hour. There is plenty of overtime available too.
 

jmnj06

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Students want to know what their salary potential will be once graduated. Some might not choose OD if they will not be able to pay off a loan of >100,000 and might choose pharmacy b/c you instantly make 50/hour once you graduate. Both OD and PharmD can work in retail, but which one can pay of the loan the fastest and has job security is what new grads want.
 
Members don't see this ad :)

blysssful

SUNY c/o 2013
10+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
817
Reaction score
8
Students want to know what their salary potential will be once graduated. Some might not choose OD if they will not be able to pay off a loan of >100,000 and might choose pharmacy b/c you instantly make 50/hour once you graduate. Both OD and PharmD can work in retail, but which one can pay of the loan the fastest and has job security is what new grads want.

Of course students want to know about their salary potential. Its a common concern--one that's been addressed quite a bit.
 

jmnj06

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Do you think pharmacy is a safe job? What role do you see technology playing in pharmacy? I already see a lot of drugs being dispensed by computers.


Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?
 

blysssful

SUNY c/o 2013
10+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
817
Reaction score
8
Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?

Optometrists do more than just refract.
 

WoodyJI

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
168
Reaction score
1
Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?
We have machines that can do this (autorefractors), but unfortunately not all losses of vision are due to refractive error. Also, it's up for debate how accurate the machines are, especially for patients with higher refractive errors. You need to start looking at the eye from the cornea back to the retina to find the reason why the vision seems blurry. Autorefractors also don't consider the binocular status of the eyes...if someone has convergence insufficiency and gets headaches when they read, an autorefractor's not going to be able to sort that out for them...especially if they're far sighted!
 

JMU07

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
1,152
Reaction score
2
Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?

Sadly enough, one of our professors told us that walmart IS starting to put these silly machines in their stores. Sit down, read some letters and it'll either spit out a "20/20, you do not need an eye exam!" or "You should see an optometrist!" :eek::scared:
 

Ryan_eyeball

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
427
Reaction score
43
Sadly enough, one of our professors told us that walmart IS starting to put these silly machines in their stores. Sit down, read some letters and it'll either spit out a "20/20, you do not need an eye exam!" or "You should see an optometrist!" :eek::scared:

I do not see how this could happen in any state. Saying, "You do not need an eye exam" would be a medical decision making process. Walmart is not licensed to practice Optometry in any state as far as I know. I do not advocate the use of visual screening outside of any wal-mart or any other commercial entity.

There is way too much subjective consideration into a prescription that I will write. A machine would not understand that over minus of myopes is going to be detrimental.
 

JMU07

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
1,152
Reaction score
2
I do not see how this could happen in any state. Saying, "You do not need an eye exam" would be a medical decision making process. Walmart is not licensed to practice Optometry in any state as far as I know. I do not advocate the use of visual screening outside of any wal-mart or any other commercial entity.

There is way too much subjective consideration into a prescription that I will write. A machine would not understand that over minus of myopes is going to be detrimental.

Exactly. I have no idea how Walmart would do this either, but evidently it's in the works. Whether or not it'll actually get to the stores is another story... but there is SO MUCH wrong with this idea!! We spent the rest of that lecture arguing about it. Although I don't know what's to argue other than that it's a terrible idea.
 

IndianaOD

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
1,146
Reaction score
3
Exactly. I have no idea how Walmart would do this either, but evidently it's in the works. Whether or not it'll actually get to the stores is another story... but there is SO MUCH wrong with this idea!! We spent the rest of that lecture arguing about it. Although I don't know what's to argue other than that it's a terrible idea.


Yet new OD grads line up in droves to work for wally. Disgraceful.
 

Aznfarmerboi

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
2,106
Reaction score
180
The problem with technology is that in the process, there is a human being (who does make mistakes) inputing the data and a human being on the recieving end.

I have seen a lot of technology that fail because it tries to replace the pharmacist or health care professional rather than implement and improve the process of it. I also stress a lot of times to people who mention technology replacing pharmacists that a lot of drug errors and medical errors are due to over information.

With that said, I think outsourcing is a more serious problem than technology. Technology when done correctly can reduce costs (computer data keeping), improve efficacy, and increase profits allowing for more pharmacies to open. Outsourcing however has put a lot of people out of a job. We now have lawyers in India reviewing documents and practicing radiology medicine.

In the end, pharmacists and other primary care providers (OD) are here to stay because they are suppose to be cost saving to begin with. I know the errors that I catch daily are saving my hospital millions in potential lawsuits (in coagulation alone). Heck, just by doing renal dosing which optimizes drug therapy, I am reducing drug costs (For example, MD orders vanco 1 g q12 hours which is two bags, but I got it reduced to q24 hrs based on Crcl, saving the hospital one bag of vanco). That alone pays for my salary and saving medicaid/medicare millions from toxicities/side effects, reduced bed days, and superbugs.

Oh yeah, reading IndianaOD post, I almost forgot that the greatest threat is an oversuppy of healthcare professionals. I am sick of new pharmacy schools opening up when we have saturation in some places.
 

jersey9000

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Oh yeah, reading IndianaOD post, I almost forgot that the greatest threat is an oversuppy of healthcare professionals. I am sick of new pharmacy schools opening up when we have saturation in some places.

All allied health fields will have new schools opening up b/c that seems like the only stability in this economy. You probably wont find a job where you graduated, but you will find one if you look a couple of hours away. Other professions like engineering, finance and other sectors are just laying people off. So that is why people are rushing to get into health care b/c there is a hope for stability.
 
Members don't see this ad :)

gochi

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,105
Reaction score
0
All allied health fields will have new schools opening up b/c that seems like the only stability in this economy. You probably wont find a job where you graduated, but you will find one if you look a couple of hours away. Other professions like engineering, finance and other sectors are just laying people off. So that is why people are rushing to get into health care b/c there is a hope for stability.

And these are all facts ? :rolleyes:
 

jersey9000

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
And these are all facts ? :rolleyes:


Well my undergrad degree was in civil engineering and they layed me off so I am getting into health care b/c of the stability.
 

maliciousdoc

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Maybe pharmacists will be the new PCP?

Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]


Dude, this is one wicked response! :D
 

Taurus

Paul Revere of Medicine
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
3,208
Reaction score
643
Yes, pharmacists will be the new PCP (lol), too bad they don't have exam rooms where I can discreetly pull out my testicles, I guess I'll just flop em out on the counter where all the nasty patients get passed their Valtrex.

ITS A BRAND NEW DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funny response, but there's a grain of truth in it.

I don't see pharm's as the new PCP's when you also have these health clinics being installed in the pharmacies too.

Why pay a pharm $100k to listen to someone's heart and check BP when you can pay a NP or PA $70k to do the same thing?
 

IndianaOD

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
1,146
Reaction score
3
Funny response, but there's a grain of truth in it.

I don't see pharm's as the new PCP's when you also have these health clinics being installed in the pharmacies too.

Why pay a pharm $100k to listen to someone's heart and check BP when you can pay a NP or PA $70k to do the same thing?


How do you arrive at 17000 hours? Lets consider a MD who is a GP with only the required total of 5 years. I'm guessing there is some liberal use of the term "clinic experience".
 

Taurus

Paul Revere of Medicine
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
3,208
Reaction score
643
How do you arrive at 17000 hours? Lets consider a MD who is a GP with only the required total of 5 years. I'm guessing there is some liberal use of the term "clinic experience".

5000 (during medical school years) + 12000 (assuming 3 year residency) = 17000

You can find articles in pubmed talking about 5000 hours for medical students.

While standards for the Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) are presently being devised, nursing organizations currently recommend DNP students complete just 1,000 hours of "practical experience" after obtaining a Bachelor's degree. Physicians complete more than 12 times that amount during their graduate education.​
 

IamMDMBA

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
How do you arrive at 17000 hours? Lets consider a MD who is a GP with only the required total of 5 years. I'm guessing there is some liberal use of the term "clinic experience".
WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT??? There has been NO training for General Practice since 1970 (I wasn't even born yet!)
Since 1971, you have to do Family Practice, which is a 3 years residency. Only ancillary para-professionals (OD's, DDS, etc get away with less than 3 years residency)
 

Aznfarmerboi

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
2,106
Reaction score
180
Funny response, but there's a grain of truth in it.

I don't see pharm's as the new PCP's when you also have these health clinics being installed in the pharmacies too.

Why pay a pharm $100k to listen to someone's heart and check BP when you can pay a NP or PA $70k to do the same thing?

Very true and one of the things I always stress to new students coming in.
 

qwopty99

Optometrist
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
988
Reaction score
4
WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT??? There has been NO training for General Practice since 1970 (I wasn't even born yet!)
Since 1971, you have to do Family Practice, which is a 3 years residency. Only ancillary para-professionals (OD's, DDS, etc get away with less than 3 years residency)

Are you suggesting that DDS training is inadequate?

Care to tell us what you (or organized medicine) know about dentistry that dentists are lacking in their education?
 
Members don't see this ad :)

gochi

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,105
Reaction score
0
Are you suggesting that DDS training is inadequate?

Care to tell us what you (or organized medicine) know about dentistry that dentists are lacking in their education?

swag.
 

RxWildcat

Julius Randle BEASTMODE!
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
3
I have an idea, lets all go off-topic and argue about random topics. The yankees suck!
 

eyestrain

Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
863
Reaction score
2
What's a Kansas Wildcat? Is that like a Jayhawk?? Or did you mean Kentucky? Either way, I'll agree with the part about them sucking.
 

RxWildcat

Julius Randle BEASTMODE!
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
3
Does SD even have a basketball team? Maybe the best farming team or something..:smuggrin:
 

JMU07

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
1,152
Reaction score
2
What's a Kansas Wildcat? Is that like a Jayhawk?? Or did you mean Kentucky? Either way, I'll agree with the part about them sucking.

While we're talking about Jayhawks, can someone tell me what the heck rock chalk Jayhawk means?!?!
 

gochi

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,105
Reaction score
0
What's a Kansas Wildcat? Is that like a Jayhawk?? Or did you mean Kentucky? Either way, I'll agree with the part about them sucking.

:laugh: I completely screwed that up.

I did mean a Kentucky Wildcat. And i guess a Kentucky wildcat is a cat from Kentucky that is extremely wild.
 

gochi

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,105
Reaction score
0
While we're talking about Jayhawks, can someone tell me what the heck rock chalk Jayhawk means?!?!


.....maybe we should start talking about optometry.
 

JMU07

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
1,152
Reaction score
2
.....maybe we should start talking about optometry.

Well, the thread got derailed about 20 posts ago. I'm not sure there is any hope of getting it back on track!
 

jymezg

SCO c/o 2013
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
302
Reaction score
1
Couldnt technology do the same thing for OD's? Couldnt someone just go into walmart sit down and have a machine refract your eye automatically then spit out a result or measurements? Couldnt you sit down and pick 1 or 2 by hitting a button rather than a OD saying 1 or 2?



jesus. was this for real? I sure hope not.:diebanana:
 

JackFruitLover

Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
139
Reaction score
10
I'm a pharmacy student and trust me I would recommend you to do Optometry because Optometrist get more respect from the general public and have more autonomy. Optometrists seem to be more satisfied with their jobs than pharmacists from my observation.
 

UNMorBUST

Mystery Man
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
3,908
Reaction score
2
I'm a pharmacy student and trust me I would recommend you to do Optometry because Optometrist get more respect from the general public and have more autonomy. Optometrists seem to be more satisfied with their jobs than pharmacists from my observation.
Troll? Come on you are a student of pharmacy, how can you judge a field and say they are less satisfied as another? Have you polled people weather they have more repect for their optometrist over their pharmacist?
 

RxWildcat

Julius Randle BEASTMODE!
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
3
I'm a pharmacy student and trust me I would recommend you to do Optometry because Optometrist get more respect from the general public and have more autonomy. Optometrists seem to be more satisfied with their jobs than pharmacists from my observation.

1) Not going to take the bait
2) If you don't like your career choice then quit and do something else
3) Thanks for your observation :rolleyes:
 

gochi

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,105
Reaction score
0
I'm a pharmacy student and trust me I would recommend you to do Optometry because Optometrist get more respect from the general public and have more autonomy. Optometrists seem to be more satisfied with their jobs than pharmacists from my observation.

lol sarcasm.
 

Cheap Eye Exams

29.95 Eye Examinations!
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
1) Not going to take the bait
2) If you don't like your career choice then quit and do something else
3) Thanks for your observation :rolleyes:

nice avatar bro! ROCK CHALK JAY HAWKS K U !!!! whoo hoooo! :thumbup:
 
Top