Office Safety/Security

[tmvguy03]

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What is your office setup from a security standpoint? We are in a clinic associated with a hospital, but physically separated by a short distance. Their security guards can come if we need them, but not an ideal setup. Thankfully it’s a rare situation, but wanted to hear from everybody else on how you do things.

 

[SSdoc33]

here come the jokers with their talk about which type of gun they like to have underneath their white coat

 

[deleted993114]

here come the jokers with their talk about which type of gun they like to have underneath their white coat

I have a concealed carry permit, but never "carry" and certainly not in a hospital/clinic environment- only when we are way out in the woods at national parks. I have hundreds of guns, but never envision using them against people. If someone broke into my house, I would level one of the many shotguns we have at their chest and ask them to leave with the stuff they have stolen. You can replace things, but not lives.

If someone wants to shoot/injure you, they will do so and in nearly all cases having a weapon available will not help. There is the issue of the element of surprise and access to the weapon you might plan to use in your defense. I also think that having weapons in a medical clinic is not such a good idea and demonstrates a lack of trust in the patient population.

The best "defense' is a locked door between the patient waiting area and your clinic/treatment area as far a physical barrier. The best defense of all is to try to be nice and understanding to patients, which will help avoid the problems in the first place. Generally the clinic or hospital "security" is an 80 year old retired guy who would not be able to overcome a younger, fit assailant.

 

[willabeast]

I was told by local police to have a knife in my drawer in my private office for self defense (this was after a patient caused an incident). I had a knife in my drawer for about 10 years until an RN found out and reported me to admin who insisted i get rid of it (even though there were bigger knives in the nearby break room to cut up food). When i asked for help from my physician rep he told me he was disgusted that anyone would want a knife in their drawer. So i gave up, but i did keep a long 12 or 14 gauge metal needle nearby. (sterile!)

 

[willabeast]

I have a concealed carry permit, but never "carry" and certainly not in a hospital/clinic environment- only when we are way out in the woods at national parks. I have hundreds of guns, but never envision using them against people. If someone broke into my house, I would level one of the many shotguns we have at their chest and ask them to leave with the stuff they have stolen. You can replace things, but not lives.

If someone wants to shoot/injure you, they will do so and in nearly all cases having a weapon available will not help. There is the issue of the element of surprise and access to the weapon you might plan to use in your defense. I also think that having weapons in a medical clinic is not such a good idea and demonstrates a lack of trust in the patient population.

The best "defense' is a locked door between the patient waiting area and your clinic/treatment area as far a physical barrier. The best defense of all is to try to be nice and understanding to patients, which will help avoid the problems in the first place. Generally the clinic or hospital "security" is an 80 year old retired guy who would not be able to overcome a younger, fit assailant.

You have hundreds of guns? A story - i knew an OB-Gyn with a closet full of guns. Not a hundred guns, but a lot. He died when plowing a field (he was also a gentleman farmer) and his tractor fell on him. Should have bought a safer tractor instead of all the guns. Just sayin. I have a few guns that have not seen the light of day in 10+ years. Take them out and lube them now and then. Cannot imagine all the work to maintain hundreds of guns.

 

[Ferrismonk]

I was told by local police to have a knife in my drawer in my private office for self defense (this was after a patient caused an incident). I had a knife in my drawer for about 10 years until an RN found out and reported me to admin who insisted i get rid of it (even though there were bigger knives in the nearby break room to cut up food). When i asked for help from my physician rep he told me he was disgusted that anyone would want a knife in their drawer. So i gave up, but i did keep a long 12 or 14 gauge metal needle nearby. (sterile!)

with sux works better.

FWIW, I don't have security. I'm in a private office. I treat my waiting room like a garden and weed it frequently. It's usually quiet and pleasant.

 

[cowboydoc]

I was told by local police to have a knife in my drawer in my private office for self defense (this was after a patient caused an incident). I had a knife in my drawer for about 10 years until an RN found out and reported me to admin who insisted i get rid of it (even though there were bigger knives in the nearby break room to cut up food). When i asked for help from my physician rep he told me he was disgusted that anyone would want a knife in their drawer. So i gave up, but i did keep a long 12 or 14 gauge metal needle nearby. (sterile!)

Time to get a "letter opener."

We have a sticker on our windows that indicates no guns allowed. Nothing to worry about here.

The hospital system has security guards (retired guys with lots of keys and a flashlight) that only make it through our offsite clinic a few times a month.

 

[lobelsteve]

10g kypho needle in every exam room for “display” purposes. And 2 above my desk. .380 in the car safe because even though I am licensed, it is against policy. And i love to follow all the rules.

 

[BobBarker]

Kershaw Leek in your front pocket would be a lot more effective than a kypho needle.

I carry my Kershaw some. When it was real bad a couple years ago, I carried my Glock 23.

 

[BobBarker]

The “security” is our maintenance guys. They are probably concealed carrying but I don’t know for sure. The police station is maybe 1/8th of a mile away so they would likely respond faster than the maintenance department if needed.

 

[lobelsteve]

Kershaw Leek in your front pocket would be a lot more effective than a kypho needle.

I carry my Kershaw some. When it was real bad a couple years ago, I carried my Glock 23.

need to practice grabbing, opening. If not I might accidentally cut myself.

 

[BobBarker]

It is super easy. Clasps tight and has a little stud to push with thumb on the blade or a little lever to actuate with a finger. Spring assisted opening.

I like how it is very small but easy to operate. Get an American made one from a retail store. I have one of those and a Chinese one off Amazon. Big difference in quality.

 

[10KHertz]

Video cameras and stickers for deterrence and fraud(slips and falls). No guns. Auto Locking door between waiting area and staff area as well. Use the PA as a shield-jk.

 

[drusso]

The wife keeps a Smith & Wesson MP Shield Caliber: 9mm I bought her for her birthday. Lead back office MA is married to local law enforcement and carries.

We changed our office policy to allow firearms on the premises after she was intimidated by a disgruntled patient in the parking lot. It's our 2nd Amendment if we have balls to keep it.

 

[SSdoc33]

The wife keeps a Smith & Wesson MP Shield Caliber: 9mm I bought her for her birthday. Lead back office MA is married to local law enforcement and carries.

We changed our office policy to allow firearms on the premises after she was intimidated by a disgruntled patient in the parking lot. It's our 2nd Amendment if we have balls to keep it.

you'll shoot your eye out, kid.

Living in a house with a gun increases your odds of death

It’s an unnecessary risk.

www.vox.com

Gun Violence Statistics | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Gun violence exacts an enormous toll on Americans—claiming tens of thousands of lives each year. Weak gun laws and unfettered access to firearms have made it… Read more

lawcenter.giffords.org

one decent item that slipped under the radar is that 25 mil was allocated to fund gun violence research.

 

[drusso]

you'll shoot your eye out, kid.

Living in a house with a gun increases your odds of death

It’s an unnecessary risk.

www.vox.com

Gun Violence Statistics | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Gun violence exacts an enormous toll on Americans—claiming tens of thousands of lives each year. Weak gun laws and unfettered access to firearms have made it… Read more

lawcenter.giffords.org

one decent item that slipped under the radar is that 25 mil was allocated to fund gun violence research.

Our policy is that you have to be trained and licensed to carry. You're wrong. We disagree about values not facts.

 

[SSdoc33]

Our policy is that you have to be trained and licensed to carry. You're wrong. We disagree about values not facts.

well, as long as you are licensed, then nothing could possibly go wrong.

we certainly disagree about values.... but im not wrong......

 

[SommeRiver]

you'll shoot your eye out, kid.

Living in a house with a gun increases your odds of death

It’s an unnecessary risk.

www.vox.com

Gun Violence Statistics | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Gun violence exacts an enormous toll on Americans—claiming tens of thousands of lives each year. Weak gun laws and unfettered access to firearms have made it… Read more

lawcenter.giffords.org

one decent item that slipped under the radar is that 25 mil was allocated to fund gun violence research.

61% of gun deaths are suicide.

 

[SSdoc33]

EXACTLY

 

[SommeRiver]

Okay...

I guess I'm unsure how that reads in support of your argument when the topic is clinic and personal security.

Are you saying that one of the physicians is going to commit suicide, or that the presence of a gun is going to make them commit suicide?

You must be strongly against the prescribing of SSRIs.

 

[SSdoc33]

Gun doesnt know if it is being used for suicide. Itll shoot no matter who pulls the trigger.

 

[SommeRiver]

Gun doesnt know if it is being used for suicide. Itll shoot no matter who pulls the trigger.

Wait a minute...Are you saying that a gun REQUIRES that a human being force it into action?!?!

I thought guns were inherently bad...

 

[SSdoc33]

Nope. Cat. Floor. Broomstick handle. Etc.

I see your not so subtle point. Unfortunately, as you know, humans are not infallible. Nor are children.

 

[SommeRiver]

Nope. Cat. Floor. Broomstick handle. Etc.

I see your not so subtle point. Unfortunately, as you know, humans are not infallible. Nor are children.

I'm infallible!

Your general point is well-taken, but I think in the confines of a discussion regarding clinic safety the nuances of gun violence matter.

FYI, I strongly feel that if a person (especially a female) is threatened in the parking lot he/she unfortunately should take steps to protect themself from mentally ill people or just regular ol criminals trying to get money or dope to sell.

 

[SSdoc33]

I'm infallible!

Your general point is well-taken, but I think in the confines of a discussion regarding clinic safety the nuances of gun violence matter.

FYI, I strongly feel that if a person (especially a female) is threatened in the parking lot he/she unfortunately should take steps to protect themself from mentally ill people or just regular ol criminals trying to get money or dope to sell.

Where is the gun while she is working?

 

[drusso]

Where is the gun while she is working?

In her purse next to get desk.

 

[SommeRiver]

Where is the gun while she is working?

It could be any number of places, but unless an individual with mental illness or a normal individual whose life is being threatened grabs it the gun is harmless.

 

[SSdoc33]

It could be any number of places, but unless an individual with mental illness or a normal individual whose life is being threatened grabs it the gun is harmless.

my point is that she could have the gun on her, but when she gets to work, then what? leave it in her purse while she is seeing patients? thats insane. there is a reason why corrections officers dont walk around the yard with inmates while packing heat.

seeing patients with a gun on you is also a bad idea in my opinion.

i suppose you could put it in a gun safe while at work, but that really would only work in a private practice scenario where the owner is ok with it.

 

[SommeRiver]

Tons of ways to do this safely, and keeping privately-owned guns out of the wrong hands isn't that difficult if you're a responsible gun owner with an IQ > 95.

Of course, I can link any number of freakish stories of guns ending up in the wrong hands, but I take great care of my guns and without extreme creativity I can't see how my guns end up in anyone's hands other than my own unless someone robs me and steals them.

Your argument here requires criminality for support.

Drusso's wife would have to have someone go through her purse and steal her gun for anything bad to happen. The kind of person who slips free in the clinic, finds a random purse in an office and starts going through it is already a threat to you, with or without her gun.

Say you catch that deranged individual BEFORE the gun is found and you confront him/her...What do you think is about to happen?

Drusso's wife is getting her teeth knocked out, concussed, and potentially killed.

The only other option is that no one has a gun in society that could potentially be stolen, which we all know is an absurd proposition which virtually no one supports other than a very small and vocal minority.

 

[drusso]

my point is that she could have the gun on her, but when she gets to work, then what? leave it in her purse while she is seeing patients? thats insane. there is a reason why corrections officers dont walk around the yard with inmates while packing heat.

seeing patients with a gun on you is also a bad idea in my opinion.

i suppose you could put it in a gun safe while at work, but that really would only work in a private practice scenario where the owner is ok with it.

Also important to teach your children to respect firearms. Our daughter spends quality time with Mommy at the Range, usually before Book club, and understands how to behave around firearms. Teach girls to be confident, strong, and how to handle a weapon and they won’t take crap from boys.

 

[SommeRiver]

Also important to teach your children to respect firearms. Our daughter spends quality time with Mommy at the Range, usually before Book club, and understands how to behave around firearms. Teach girls to be confident, strong, and how to handle a weapon and they won’t take crap from boys.

Start them off on Airsoft and use actual replica platforms like the Glock replica. Safe and realistic.

 

[lobelsteve]

Purse is too far. If you are serious about it enough to train, then concealed carry on your person is the only way.
@SSdoc33 putting it in safe is same as not having it at all. Making a correlation between mrs russo and prison guards is not appropriate. People in prison and patients are not the same risk.

 

[SommeRiver]

I'm not so sure the purse is too far if she's been openly and aggressively confronted in the parking lot.

In that case perhaps a desk safe is good during the day and carry it to and from the car on her person.

I can totally understand her anxiety if something has already gone down in the past.

 

[Ducttape]

in the US society, we are too far gone to ever reasonably have a safe gun climate, unlike almost everywhere else in the First and Second World, and a lot of the Third World.

unfortunately, we will just have to get used to seeing our friends & family, children and co-workers gunned down.


if anyone wants to avoid gun violence, then the only legitimate option is to move to Singapore, Japan, Indonesia, China, UK, Iceland, Bangladesh, Romania, India, Pakistan, Cambodia, Nepal, Canada, Swaziland, Kenya, Denmark, Germany, Italy, France, Austria, Finland. avoid Brazil, Venezuela, Central America...

 

[drusso]

I'm not so sure the purse is too far if she's been openly and aggressively confronted in the parking lot.

In that case perhaps a desk safe is good during the day and carry it to and from the car on her person.

I can totally understand her anxiety if something has already gone down in the past.

Interestingly. it's never the Regen patients who are aggressive/disruptive, but the "My doctor referred me because she doesn't want to refill my Vicosomaxanax" who get angry...

 

[SommeRiver]

Interestingly. it's never the Regen patients who are aggressive/disruptive, but the "My doctor referred me because she doesn't want to refill my Vicosomaxanax" who get angry...

Haha, I bet...

 

[Ducttape]

of course, but kind of a nonsequitor.

patients looking for Regen do not have substance use disorder as a probable diagnosis.

 

[Cholula]

Firstly, have complete control to choose what patients you see.

 

[deleted993114]

You have hundreds of guns? A story - i knew an OB-Gyn with a closet full of guns. Not a hundred guns, but a lot. He died when plowing a field (he was also a gentleman farmer) and his tractor fell on him. Should have bought a safer tractor instead of all the guns. Just sayin. I have a few guns that have not seen the light of day in 10+ years. Take them out and lube them now and then. Cannot imagine all the work to maintain hundreds of guns.

I take a designated 3-4 day vacation every year just to clean and maintain the weapons. As you pointed out, you cannot just leave them, unless they are packed in cosmoline. That time is coming up in march.

I don't have a hundred guns. I have HUNDREDS of guns. I think I have an example of about every type of weapon ever made and then some. Shooting is pretty fun, and there is a weapon suited well for every occasion. I even have a ww2 halftrack, to which we mount a couple of Browning 1919 machine guns and go spray the woods with .308 rounds (they have both been converted). Shooting tracers is fun in the evening, as it looks like something from a movie when you get a couple going.

That being said, I really don't think that carrying a weapon is necessary, unless one is way out in the boonies. There, bear spray is more effective for potential wildlife threats and the gun is strictly for defense against rogue humans. I would never really want to have weapons in my office, but am not concerned at all when patients (or cops who are patients) carry in their handguns.

PS- I maintain my tractors and use them appropriately, so the chance of having one roll on me is very low. I don't take chances with any equipment.

 

[BobBarker]

@hawkeye2009
Do you have a weapon room like Reba in Tremors?

 

[lobelsteve]

I take a designated 3-4 day vacation every year just to clean and maintain the weapons. As you pointed out, you cannot just leave them, unless they are packed in cosmoline. That time is coming up in march.

I don't have a hundred guns. I have HUNDREDS of guns. I think I have an example of about every type of weapon ever made and then some. Shooting is pretty fun, and there is a weapon suited well for every occasion. I even have a ww2 halftrack, to which we mount a couple of Browning 1919 machine guns and go spray the woods with .308 rounds (they have both been converted). Shooting tracers is fun in the evening, as it looks like something from a movie when you get a couple going.

That being said, I really don't think that carrying a weapon is necessary, unless one is way out in the boonies. There, bear spray is more effective for potential wildlife threats and the gun is strictly for defense against rogue humans. I would never really want to have weapons in my office, but am not concerned at all when patients (or cops who are patients) carry in their handguns.

PS- I maintain my tractors and use them appropriately, so the chance of having one roll on me is very low. I don't take chances with any equipment.

got a friend with a pair of hk91’s. Smoothest rifle Ive fired. Also shot his Uzi and a bunch of ARs. Daniel Defense makes a great version of the AR. Would love to build a 4lb version for fun.

 

[geauxg8rs]

got a friend with a pair of hk91’s. Smoothest rifle Ive fired. Also shot his Uzi and a bunch of ARs. Daniel Defense makes a great version of the AR. Would love to build a 4lb version for fun.

My biggest problem with guns in
the home is that my sons NERF bullets are
Constantly being chewed up
By the dog.

 

[Baron Samedi]

I think I'll just die

 

[deleted993114]

got a friend with a pair of hk91’s. Smoothest rifle Ive fired. Also shot his Uzi and a bunch of ARs. Daniel Defense makes a great version of the AR. Would love to build a 4lb version for fun.

Those are certainly fine weapons. H&K always makes quality weapons.

If you get an AR, I would suggest a Lewis Machine Tools, as it is an exceptionally made rifle and is piston driven, rather than a "gas gun". With the piston system, the bolt will remain much cleaner with repeated firing. I got one of the SEAL teams to change to LMT, as I have a friend who is "top sailor" on one of the teams. I was shocked they were using gas guns in the desert, so they got their armorer to change them to LMTs- they are much happier.

The H&K91s are indeed very nice .308 weapons. It provides all the quality of H&K with a round that is quite versatile. The only better quality I have seen is B&T, which is Swiss and makes parts for H&K as well as a limited supply of their own weapons. Very nice sub-guns. I've got a couple of H&K91s and really like them (there are several cheaper "knock offs" of this model that are not as good). In .308, however, a piston system AR-10 is really nice as well. My favorite short assault rifle in that mode is a german FG-42 paratrooper rifle in 8mm- lot's of power and beautiful ergonomics. Originals are $300K, but they make a new version of it that is $5K from Smith arms in Texas. They make a really nice Soviet DP-28 as well that is pretty fun.

And yes, I have a few "arsenal rooms" that have racks of rifles. If someone does not own a rifle, I let them go into the rooms and pick whatever they want off the racks, as it is good to have more gun owners and people involved in target/recreational shooting. We have boxes of ammo stacked to the ceilings for those interested in an afternoon of unrestricted "plinking". All in good fun- I am not one of those "prepper" whack jobs who thinks the world is coming to an end or a crazy "militia" type. My "enemy" is pop cans, paper targets, watermelons, and pumpkins.

 

[painfree23]

Firstly, have complete control to choose what patients you see.

How do you prevent “discrimination” in this setting?

 

[deleted993114]

How do you prevent “discrimination” in this setting?

You don’t. You have to stratify your patients via payer class and set limits on the percentage of patients by payer class.

That is the reality of economics in private practice pain med. Don’t like it? Work at a university or seek an employed position.

 

[SSdoc33]

we are so awesome at guns in this country....

Kids, aged 12 and 13, shot by driver after throwing snowballs at passing cars | CNN

Two children, ages 12 and 13, were shot after throwing snowballs at passing cars in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, police said.

www.cnn.com

 

[hyperalgesia]

My hospital has an emergency button that goes directly to the coroner's office for immediate pickup.

 

[Cholula]

How do you prevent “discrimination” in this setting?

I don't discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, age, disability, or sex. When a new patient calls for an appointment, our default statement is we are full and not accepting new patients at this time, but sometimes I will depending on the circumstances. We get their information and say we will call them back if there is an opening in the future. For risk management reasons, I will decline to accept new patients with a history of a malpractice suit, restraining order, assault, unlawful use of firearm, possession of a controlled substance, possession with intent to distribute, or possession of drug paraphernalia. I may not give credit to one who has been sued for not paying a medical bill. I may not accept checks from one who has a criminal history of passing bad checks. If possible, my office will look at a potential patient's social media to look for any red flags.

 

[10KHertz]

If you need a gun in your pain medicine practice , you’re doing something shady...