USMLE Official 2018 Step 1 Experiences and Scores Thread

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I don't know a single 260+ scorer who isn't intensely dedicated to medicine. I do know a ton of people in the 200s with tons of pubs through good luck or nepotism/favoritism though.

Well said. Step 1 is neither a clinical aptitude test nor an IQ test. It's a very hard pill for a lot of people to swallow, but the fact of the matter is that hard work is far and away the most important factor to doing well on boards. I honestly believe that literally every single person in my class was capable of a 260+ on Step 1, but in reality <5 will achieve it. I haven't gotten my score back yet, but if I end up as one of those few top scorers, the only reason will have been because I worked much harder than most people. I'm not smarter than those kids, but I was consistently the only one in the library until 11 PM pre-dedicated. I was the only one to head straight to the library after completing final exams. I was putting in more hours per week since M1 than they were putting during dedicated. And that's precisely why Step 1 is so valuable - it tells you who wants it bad enough and is willing to sacrifice. Pumping out research does not even come close. Sure, research can be a grind too. But for every person who put in hundreds of hours towards a research paper, there are probably 2 more people who just got their names put on one because they kissed the right ass at the right time.
 
I agree 100 percent with all the posts that STEP 1 is a measure of hard work. The only issue I have with STEP 1 is that we are all being graded against each other, which is still fair, however what is not fair is that IMGs in other countries that have already practiced medicine for years get to take the same exact test as medical students who had 2-3 years to study for step in their pre-dedicated i.e. m1, m2 , some schools post m3, I am not even talking about the Caribbean medical students or international medical students, I am talking about the GRADUATES. How is it fair that the step 1 scores of medical students go down because medical students are being graded against medical GRADUATES, to me that is insane.
 
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If you think about it the easiest solution would be to not allow people to give USMLE after they graduate.


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Yeah it is simple and fair, but how would they get a residency after they graduate?... maybe still give them STEP 1 but have them in their own graduate pool separate from medical student pool, and then they can apply the same corrections to their score against all other grads only.
 
I agree 100 percent with all the posts that STEP 1 is a measure of hard work. The only issue I have with STEP 1 is that we are all being graded against each other, which is still fair, however what is not fair is that IMGs in other countries that have already practiced medicine for years get to take the same exact test as medical students who had 2-3 years to study for step in their pre-dedicated i.e. m1, m2 , some schools post m3, I am not even talking about the Caribbean medical students or international medical students, I am talking about the GRADUATES. How is it fair that the step 1 scores of medical students go down because medical students are being graded against medical GRADUATES, to me that is insane.
Well, to be completely fair they are at a massive disadvantage when it comes to the process. Every year the top programs in each specialty take one or two FMGs who absolutely killed it in every aspect. Someone in another thread linked someone from Harvard neurology (not neurosurg even) who scored a 278 and a 282 on 1/2 respectively. There was that other NSG guy who infamously got on here and proved he got 282 and 284. I probably couldn't do that with infinite study time and experience. If I get a 260 as an AMG MD/PhD, I'm at a bigger advantage than basically any FMG save for those 0.00001% applicants who simply can't be ignored.

It's also not fair that some schools take it post-M3 (clear advantage, regardless of how much biochem you forgot). It's not fair that some students have to take it in 1.5 years. It's not fair that some schools are P/F while others have grades. However, this is still way more standardized than any exam you've ever taken. Everyone has a similar time frame (unlike SAT/MCAT). Everyone knows what study resources are best (unlike SAT/MCAT). It's extremely "study-able" compared to most other exams. Most people have a somewhat similar level of preparation going in, and the variance was decided by your own study habits.
 
Well said. Step 1 is neither a clinical aptitude test nor an IQ test. It's a very hard pill for a lot of people to swallow, but the fact of the matter is that hard work is far and away the most important factor to doing well on boards. I honestly believe that literally every single person in my class was capable of a 260+ on Step 1, but in reality <5 will achieve it. I haven't gotten my score back yet, but if I end up as one of those few top scorers, the only reason will have been because I worked much harder than most people. I'm not smarter than those kids, but I was consistently the only one in the library until 11 PM pre-dedicated. I was the only one to head straight to the library after completing final exams. I was putting in more hours per week since M1 than they were putting during dedicated. And that's precisely why Step 1 is so valuable - it tells you who wants it bad enough and is willing to sacrifice. Pumping out research does not even come close. Sure, research can be a grind too. But for every person who put in hundreds of hours towards a research paper, there are probably 2 more people who just got their names put on one because they kissed the right ass at the right time.

+++
 
I agree 100 percent with all the posts that STEP 1 is a measure of hard work. The only issue I have with STEP 1 is that we are all being graded against each other, which is still fair, however what is not fair is that IMGs in other countries that have already practiced medicine for years get to take the same exact test as medical students who had 2-3 years to study for step in their pre-dedicated i.e. m1, m2 , some schools post m3, I am not even talking about the Caribbean medical students or international medical students, I am talking about the GRADUATES. How is it fair that the step 1 scores of medical students go down because medical students are being graded against medical GRADUATES, to me that is insane.
how is a foreign med school graduate at any advantage vs a med student? are you trying to tell me that a professor of neurosurgery here in the US would somehow do better in step 1 just because he is what he is? i agree with footfetish - this is an exam that favors those that work their butt off. having a brain helps but it helps in everything else too.

i know an FMG who frequented this forum and got a 270+ on both the steps. and a 99%ile on MCAT too (yes, he did take the mcat but didnt get in because he was not a citizen). it's because he is a really smart and hardworking individual and nothing else. By the way he is a really great guy and fun to hang out with.

after i read ff's review of what his test was like, i also doubt that any time on the wards would compensate for studying. What you gain on the wards you could gain by watching a youtube video of a procedure/a video lecture. It's just more regimented and sticks better but dont forget you lose tons of time.
 
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Yeah it is simple and fair, but how would they get a residency after they graduate?... maybe still give them STEP 1 but have them in their own graduate pool separate from medical student pool, and then they can apply the same corrections to their score against all other grads only.
isnt that whats happening? to get into any residency as an fmg you got to beat a mean by a margin to have any chance for an interview... and it's not like they are going to take mine or your residency spots in most cases... how many 265+ FMGs are there?
 
Well said. Step 1 is neither a clinical aptitude test nor an IQ test. It's a very hard pill for a lot of people to swallow, but the fact of the matter is that hard work is far and away the most important factor to doing well on boards. I honestly believe that literally every single person in my class was capable of a 260+ on Step 1, but in reality <5 will achieve it. I haven't gotten my score back yet, but if I end up as one of those few top scorers, the only reason will have been because I worked much harder than most people. I'm not smarter than those kids, but I was consistently the only one in the library until 11 PM pre-dedicated. I was the only one to head straight to the library after completing final exams. I was putting in more hours per week since M1 than they were putting during dedicated. And that's precisely why Step 1 is so valuable - it tells you who wants it bad enough and is willing to sacrifice. Pumping out research does not even come close. Sure, research can be a grind too. But for every person who put in hundreds of hours towards a research paper, there are probably 2 more people who just got their names put on one because they kissed the right ass at the right time.

my experience tells me it's more than 2 people who never get their names on a paper despite being in a lab. not necessarily kissed the right ass @ the right time. just that most research never sees the light of day.
 
my experience tells me it's more than 2 people who never get their names on a paper despite being in a lab. not necessarily kissed the right ass @ the right time. just that most research never sees the light of day.
Clinical research at this level really is favoritism and luck in med school though. I can't say it's anything more unless you do a research year. You go to the department and they either hand you a chart review destined to rot on a shelf until a resident gets around to it or they hand you a small assignment on a NEJM paper that will be submitted next month. You have no control over that, and most med students have very little to contribute intellectually.

Papers at my school are more or less given out as a boon to students well-liked by the department or particular attendings. I personally know one girl who got on 5 papers last year alone because an attending developed a crush on her. She couldn't do the analysis, the attending recruited a friend of mine to help. He did the whole thing and got told to beat it when it came time for authorship. Another friend of mine got on 10 papers this year through a powerful connection. He also barely passed 2nd year and, I kid you not, did not know that ALT and AST were different during wards orientation. I should mention that he also has done well on initial clinical evals as he is a likeable person. Sometimes hanging out with residents in the role of a med student isn't the perfect way to assess clinical competence of a person, which is why we have the exams. Great social skills won't help you when you're taking call at 4 am and something crazy rolls in the door.

We need objectivity. These other systems just aren't robust enough to tell who is actually showing competence.
 
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I agree 100 percent with all the posts that STEP 1 is a measure of hard work. The only issue I have with STEP 1 is that we are all being graded against each other, which is still fair, however what is not fair is that IMGs in other countries that have already practiced medicine for years get to take the same exact test as medical students who had 2-3 years to study for step in their pre-dedicated i.e. m1, m2 , some schools post m3, I am not even talking about the Caribbean medical students or international medical students, I am talking about the GRADUATES. How is it fair that the step 1 scores of medical students go down because medical students are being graded against medical GRADUATES, to me that is insane.

I don't think there is any advantages for FMG over US medical students. The test still relies heavily on basic sciences including genetics, micro, anat, biochem etc. You will realize after getting to clinical/practice, that unless you are grinding STEP 1 material everyday of your life, you will forget almost all of it day by day. Even the greatest clinicians will get below average marks in STEP 1 because 90 percentage of questions require detail knowledge of basic sciences in some form.
I feel the best way to Ace this test is by doing what "Foot Fetish" has done. A US medical student working hard on M1 M2 will on average always get higher score compared to a FMG.

Besides that, FMG and US medical students are not compared on same scale. I may have to forget the dream of practicing in US if I get a 230s in step 1 while US med student can get any residency with same score . It is what it is.
 
Clinical research at this level really is favoritism and luck in med school though. I can't say it's anything more unless you do a research year. You go to the department and they either hand you a chart review destined to rot on a shelf until a resident gets around to it or they hand you a small assignment on a NEJM paper that will be submitted next month. You have no control over that, and most med students have very little to contribute intellectually.

Papers at my school are more or less given out as a boon to students well-liked by the department or particular attendings. I personally know one girl who got on 5 papers last year alone because an attending developed a crush on her. She couldn't do the analysis, the attending recruited a friend of mine to help. He did the whole thing and got told to beat it when it came time for authorship. Another friend of mine got on 10 papers this year through a powerful connection. He also barely passed 2nd year and, I kid you not, did not know that ALT and AST were different during wards orientation.

We need objectivity. These other systems just aren't robust enough to tell who is actually showing competence.
i seem to always agree with parts of what you write and disagree with other.

i do agree that favoritism plays a part but i dont know a single person @ any schools i've been to that has 5 papers in the first 2 years - let alone 10. if a person gets 10 papers it's likely because he focused on papers and not on ALT/AST. He is an outlier by a wide, wide, dude... freaking WIDE margin... no way you get 10 publications and you are a dunce...

i agree nepotism occasionally favors someone and you might get a publication although you pretty much did nothing... research is more of luck than objectivity but regular high end publications - with first authorship - would indicate a distinct ability. also, how many people actually publish in NEJM on a regular basis? So that kind of luck is just what it is - luck. It's like getting an interview @ a top institution with a 199 in both the Step 1 and Step 2.

Research experience (i dont mean MD/PhDs) and LOR are overrated. What really gets you an interview is that score. And yes, occasionally a phone call helps but it's not like you are guaranteed a match just because you interviewed.
 
I agree 100 percent with all the posts that STEP 1 is a measure of hard work. The only issue I have with STEP 1 is that we are all being graded against each other, which is still fair, however what is not fair is that IMGs in other countries that have already practiced medicine for years get to take the same exact test as medical students who had 2-3 years to study for step in their pre-dedicated i.e. m1, m2 , some schools post m3, I am not even talking about the Caribbean medical students or international medical students, I am talking about the GRADUATES. How is it fair that the step 1 scores of medical students go down because medical students are being graded against medical GRADUATES, to me that is insane.

There is a fb group that is dedicated to step 1 prep and the number of FMGs in there is astounding. (Many) think it is weird US students take it as students, not graduates. Many more say you need 6 months to prepare.

But if you get a bad score as an FMG, youre not in good shape at all. Also, the further removed from graduation you get, the more difficult the process seems to get.
 
i seem to always agree with parts of what you write and disagree with other.

i do agree that favoritism plays a part but i dont know a single person @ any schools i've been to that has 5 papers in the first 2 years - let alone 10. if a person gets 10 papers it's likely because he focused on papers and not on ALT/AST. He is an outlier by a wide, wide, dude... freaking WIDE margin... no way you get 10 publications and you are a dunce...

i agree nepotism occasionally favors someone and you might get a publication although you pretty much did nothing... research is more of luck than objectivity but regular high end publications - with first authorship - would indicate a distinct ability. also, how many people actually publish in NEJM on a regular basis? So that kind of luck is just what it is - luck. It's like getting an interview @ a top institution with a 199 in both the Step 1 and Step 2.

Research experience (i dont mean MD/PhDs) and LOR are overrated. What really gets you an interview is that score. And yes, occasionally a phone call helps but it's not like you are guaranteed a match just because you interviewed.
This is totally fair. This guy is an outlier because he has experience in this field and because a personal connection put him in a great spot. He certainly deserves some credit, but the whole story is also very clear when you combine it with his step failure. This person would make a decent researcher, but he couldn't find a way to be consistent enough with actually working to pass step 1, and he didn't care enough to learn even the most basic principles of medicine for his future patients. And he's not a dunce, but he's definitely no genius. There are a lot of people out there like that actually. I'd imagine there is one at most med schools (maybe not 10 papers, but plenty). It's actually not hard to publish 10 papers if someone gives you the work. Clinical papers can be hammered out in a week if you have the data. The hard part is getting the opportunity, which for him happened through a personal connection which did result in favoritism.

That's why 10 papers is such an outlier. It basically always results from favoritism, because most students, regardless of experience or ability, aren't given more than 1 or 2 chances to publish in a given year. Also, most students need to devote more time to actually learning the principles of medicine, so they try not to overload their plate with tons of research and instead focus on step 1, which is still largely relevant to our careers. People bash on the biochem pathways, and I agree it's stupid, but how many of us could transition to the wards and know what was going on without step 1? The majority of First Aid is still extremely relevant to the wards, even if the tiny minutiae and a few basic science sections aren't. That stuff was just there to identify/separate the top scorers anyway, because they'd be the ones going off the huge academic hospitals where you'd actually see those sorts of diseases.
 
Wondering how much does nbme 19 underpredict ? Got 240..
Not sure if I can break 250
Anywhere from 0 points to 25 points. Fewer points as you get higher. A 220 might indicate a 235+, but a 240 might be borderline for 250. Definitely possible.

The worst I've heard other than my 50 point drop friend is only 1 point over. I know literally only 1 person IRL who dropped below their NBME 19 score. You definitely have it in you to break 250.
 
Anywhere from 0 points to 25 points. Fewer points as you get higher. A 220 might indicate a 235+, but a 240 might be borderline for 250. Definitely possible.

The worst I've heard other than my 50 point drop friend is only 1 point over. I know literally only 1 person IRL who dropped below their NBME 19 score. You definitely have it in you to break 250.
Thank you for your reply. I'm just a couple of weeks away from my exsm. Still have to take uwsa2 and nbme 18.
Previous nbmes got 240 in all of them. But I think what matters most is the says of exam. How much you have control on your nerves and a good sleep is all what you need on that day. But still you never know.
 
One week out and planning on taking NBME 17 Saturday and UWSA2 on Monday (or should I change this around??). NBME 15/16 in low 220s, UWSA1 237. Hoping to break 240+

Anyone have suggestions on what to be doing? I still have 400 UWorld questions left in my second UW pass. Been three FA and Pathoma once, FA systems about twice.

Edit: Thinking of moving my exam back a week, but the center is booked for now :/
 
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One week out and planning on taking NBME 17 Saturday and UWSA2 on Monday (or should I change this around??). NBME 15/16 in low 220s, UWSA1 237. Hoping to break 240+

Anyone have suggestions on what to be doing? I still have 400 UWorld questions left in my second UW pass. Been three FA and Pathoma once, FA systems about twice.
I may not be the best person to suggest you but actually I was scoring low in my first 2 nbmes (225). What I did , I did targeted study and focused on weakest areas with revising FA and UW for those particular subjects and revised 1_3 pathoma chapters. Then after 2 weeks I got 240 in my next nbme
 
I may not be the best person to suggest you but actually I was scoring low in my first 2 nbmes (225). What I did , I did targeted study and focused on weakest areas with revising FA and UW for those particular subjects and revised 1_3 pathoma chapters. Then after 2 weeks I got 240 in my next nbme

Thanks! I guess I have to take a deeper look into what my weak areas are, I think I didn't have any glaring issues but a few things were around average such as immuno, biochem and GI and I think one other thing as well. It just seemed to vary a little from exams for me.
 
I don't think there is any advantages for FMG over US medical students. The test still relies heavily on basic sciences including genetics, micro, anat, biochem etc. You will realize after getting to clinical/practice, that unless you are grinding STEP 1 material everyday of your life, you will forget almost all of it day by day. Even the greatest clinicians will get below average marks in STEP 1 because 90 percentage of questions require detail knowledge of basic sciences in some form.
I feel the best way to Ace this test is by doing what "Foot Fetish" has done. A US medical student working hard on M1 M2 will on average always get higher score compared to a FMG.

Besides that, FMG and US medical students are not compared on same scale. I may have to forget the dream of practicing in US if I get a 230s in step 1 while US med student can get any residency with same score . It is what it is.

I agree with you but, it still should be students against students (US, Caribbean, international). and graduates against graduates, if graduates forget a lot of basic sceinces then it will be to their advantage to be pooled against other graduates when correcting step 1 scores. Also lol I know PLENTY of IMGs that matched with 210s, 215 220s, so I don't know what your talking about when you say " my dreams of practicing in us are over if I get in the 230s" haha. Even the stats provided by NRMP are not in line with that statement.
 
9 weeks out NBME 13 234, CSE 224
8 week NBME 15 242
7 week UWSA 1 246
6 week NBME 17 234 *_*
UWSA 2 week 254
3 days before step NBME 18 246
2 days before step NBME 19 250.

Hard to say how the exam will end up. This process is so random. From what I read, most people said NBME 19 is hard, but I scored higher I think just because they actually asked what I know. On step, if they ask my weak areas, I may not even hit 230. What a crappy process. Just my two cents.
 
This is totally fair. This guy is an outlier because he has experience in this field and because a personal connection put him in a great spot. He certainly deserves some credit, but the whole story is also very clear when you combine it with his step failure. This person would make a decent researcher, but he couldn't find a way to be consistent enough with actually working to pass step 1, and he didn't care enough to learn even the most basic principles of medicine for his future patients. And he's not a dunce, but he's definitely no genius. There are a lot of people out there like that actually. I'd imagine there is one at most med schools (maybe not 10 papers, but plenty). It's actually not hard to publish 10 papers if someone gives you the work. Clinical papers can be hammered out in a week if you have the data. The hard part is getting the opportunity, which for him happened through a personal connection which did result in favoritism.

That's why 10 papers is such an outlier. It basically always results from favoritism, because most students, regardless of experience or ability, aren't given more than 1 or 2 chances to publish in a given year. Also, most students need to devote more time to actually learning the principles of medicine, so they try not to overload their plate with tons of research and instead focus on step 1, which is still largely relevant to our careers. People bash on the biochem pathways, and I agree it's stupid, but how many of us could transition to the wards and know what was going on without step 1? The majority of First Aid is still extremely relevant to the wards, even if the tiny minutiae and a few basic science sections aren't. That stuff was just there to identify/separate the top scorers anyway, because they'd be the ones going off the huge academic hospitals where you'd actually see those sorts of diseases.

Just to clarify for those that got scared:

One paper is plenty. 2 is outstanding = outliers unless MD/PHD or took a year off. Most dont have any publications and just get a research experience. Some might have an abstract. There are plenty of MD/PHDs with 1-2 papers @ graduation. Most schools require a first authorship or 2 to graduate. As an MD/PhD it is relatively easy to get a non-first authorship. If all else fails you usually know enough to write up a review...

VERY FEW people EVER publish in NEJM/Nature. So ya all - relax. There are plenty out there with no research experience. What is more important is that research experience for non-MD/PHDs matters only after you get far enough in the interview process.
 
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How is it fair that the step 1 scores of medical students go down because medical students are being graded against medical GRADUATES, to me that is insane.

As an FMG myself, I will have to disagree. Being an FMG already puts you at a great disadvantage from the beginning (which tbh is understandable from any PD's perspective). Many US students might not realize the extent of the disadvantage we are during the match : it's not only that you just graduated from a med school outside of the states :

1)Your clerkships mean nothing because the clerkships here are done in a different way. You can't even match them.
2) You have no Dean's letter because guess what, the title of the Dean here means nothing and most students don't even know his name - and of course he doesn't know you, so if he writes you a letter out of pity because you told him about your dreams of doing your residency in the States, that's a two-line generic impersonal letter at best.
3) Your grades don't mean ****. You might get a 9 in IM during your 6th year which you literally worked your ass for but the PD doesn't know (and isn't obligated really) what scale are we talking about, the relative difficulty of getting x vs y grade, since exams are not standardized and non comparable between different schools or even what is that 6th year you 're talking about, as med school here is 6 years and there is no pre-med.
4) Your LOR's don't mean ****, even if you tried really hard to get them.
5) Doing your rotations here is VERY expensive for the average IMG. I'm not talking about the few millionaires from India who can easily afford them, I'm a European myself coming from a middle class family and just doing the steps, coming to the US for step 2cs and coming again for interviews is almost a year's worth of money of what BOTH my parents earn. Adding to this the cost of a 2 or 3 month stay in the States and the total cost goes overboard.
6) Prepping for the USMLE as a med student, at least in my country, almost certainly means that you get to be behind in your studies and graduating later and that might not be an option for many. And with no step scores while a student, good luck finding an elective - which can ONLY be done while in med school, and as we already mentioned, they 're expensive.

Therefore, as an FMG, going to the match with just great step scores, a publication if you 're really lucky and maybe an observership, with no US LOR's and no actual US clinical experience, the step scores are the only strong card in my hand. And I consider it fair, that I get the chance to put in the effort to make absolutely sure I gain this only advantage I can get, and that is of course taking the steps as a graduate. That of course while earning zero money (as my then-fellow med students are now working) and at the expense of my own personal life.

And for those who 'll ask "Then why come here?", the answer is because I want to get the best training I can get worldwide and reach my full potential as a medical doctor, while earning a decent amount of money while busting my ass off during residency - residents here might be working the same hours but earn around 1/4 of the average US salary.

I didn't come here to whine about being FMG. I actually think the US matching system is actually pretty good at filtering the average from the good and the good from the best. In comparison, we don't even have interviews for the residency spots, it's just a waiting list. Rather I posted this to make things clear about why having the chance to take the steps as a graduate is fair game.
 
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As an FMG myself, I will have to disagree. Being an FMG already puts you at a great disadvantage from the beginning (which tbh is understandable from any PD's perspective). Many US students might not realize the extent of the disadvantage we are during the match : it's not only that you just graduated from a med school outside of the states :

1)Your clerkships mean nothing because the clerkships here are done in a different way. You can't even match them.
2) You have no Dean's letter because guess what, the title of the Dean here means nothing and most students don't even know his name - and of course he doesn't know you, so if he writes you a letter out of pity because you told him about your dreams of doing your residency in the States, that's a two-line generic impersonal letter at best.
3) Your grades don't mean ****. You might get a 9 in IM during your 6th year which you literally worked your ass for but the PD doesn't know (and isn't obligated really) what scale are we talking about, the relative difficulty of getting x vs y grade, since exams are not standardized and non comparable between different schools or even what is that 6th year you 're talking about, as med school here is 6 years and there is no pre-med.
4) Your LOR's don't mean ****, even if you tried really hard to get them.
5) Doing your rotations here is VERY expensive for the average IMG. I'm not talking about the few millionaires from Indian who can easily afford them, I'm a European myself coming from a middle class family and just doing the steps, coming to the US for step 2cs and coming again for interviews is almost a year's worth of money of what BOTH my parents earn. Adding this the cost of 2 or 3 month stay in the States and the total cost goes overboard.
6) Prepping for the USMLE as a med student, at least in my country, almost certainly means that you get to be behind in your studies and graduating later and that might not be an option for many. And with no step scores while a student, good luck finding an elective - which can ONLY be done while in med school, and as we already mentioned, they 're expensive.

Therefore, as an FMG, going to the match with just great step scores, a publication if you 're really lucky and maybe an observership, with no US LOR's and no actual US clinical experience, the step scores are the only strong card in my hand. And I consider it fair, that I get the chance to put in the effort to make absolutely sure I gain this only advantage I can get, and that is of course taking the steps as a graduate. That of course while earning zero money (as my then-fellow med students are now working) and at the expense of my own personal life.

And for those who 'll ask "Then why come here?", the answer is because I want to get the best training I can get worldwide and reach my full potential as a medical doctor, while earning a decent amount of money while busting my ass off during residency - residents here might be working the same hours but earn around 1/4 of the average US salary.

I didn't come here to whine about being FMG. I actually think the US matching system is actually pretty good at filtering the average from the good and the good from the best. In comparison, we don't even have interviews for the residency spots, it's just a waiting list. Rather I posted this to make things clear about why having the chance to take the steps as a graduate is fair game.

Yes your education may not be at good as schools in US, but that discrepancy exists here too: low titer US MD versus high titer US MD. Based on your logic, does that mean low titer US MD schools should have been given a chance to take step after 3th or 4th year or longer time to study?
Also, life is not fair. I understand where you come from. But I am personally a US resident and I am paying 100K more than others (after 80K scholarship) because I am going to out of state school, so if you choose to get a better education then it comes with a price tag unfortunately. It is a bullet that I had to bite, so I do not think what you mentioned is valid simply because that occurs here too whether FMG or US.
 
As an FMG myself, I will have to disagree. Being an FMG already puts you at a great disadvantage from the beginning (which tbh is understandable from any PD's perspective). Many US students might not realize the extent of the disadvantage we are during the match : it's not only that you just graduated from a med school outside of the states :

1)Your clerkships mean nothing because the clerkships here are done in a different way. You can't even match them.
2) You have no Dean's letter because guess what, the title of the Dean here means nothing and most students don't even know his name - and of course he doesn't know you, so if he writes you a letter out of pity because you told him about your dreams of doing your residency in the States, that's a two-line generic impersonal letter at best.
3) Your grades don't mean ****. You might get a 9 in IM during your 6th year which you literally worked your ass for but the PD doesn't know (and isn't obligated really) what scale are we talking about, the relative difficulty of getting x vs y grade, since exams are not standardized and non comparable between different schools or even what is that 6th year you 're talking about, as med school here is 6 years and there is no pre-med.
4) Your LOR's don't mean ****, even if you tried really hard to get them.
5) Doing your rotations here is VERY expensive for the average IMG. I'm not talking about the few millionaires from Indian who can easily afford them, I'm a European myself coming from a middle class family and just doing the steps, coming to the US for step 2cs and coming again for interviews is almost a year's worth of money of what BOTH my parents earn. Adding this the cost of 2 or 3 month stay in the States and the total cost goes overboard.
6) Prepping for the USMLE as a med student, at least in my country, almost certainly means that you get to be behind in your studies and graduating later and that might not be an option for many. And with no step scores while a student, good luck finding an elective - which can ONLY be done while in med school, and as we already mentioned, they 're expensive.

Therefore, as an FMG, going to the match with just great step scores, a publication if you 're really lucky and maybe an observership, with no US LOR's and no actual US clinical experience, the step scores are the only strong card in my hand. And I consider it fair, that I get the chance to put in the effort to make absolutely sure I gain this only advantage I can get, and that is of course taking the steps as a graduate. That of course while earning zero money (as my then-fellow med students are now working) and at the expense of my own personal life.

And for those who 'll ask "Then why come here?", the answer is because I want to get the best training I can get worldwide and reach my full potential as a medical doctor, while earning a decent amount of money while busting my ass off during residency - residents here might be working the same hours but earn around 1/4 of the average US salary.

I didn't come here to whine about being FMG. I actually think the US matching system is actually pretty good at filtering the average from the good and the good from the best. In comparison, we don't even have interviews for the residency spots, it's just a waiting list. Rather I posted this to make things clear about why having the chance to take the steps as a graduate is fair game.

All of these are fair and valid points, and I truly admire your perseverance.

That said, the purpose of a country’s healthcare education system is to train physicians that will serve the healthcare needs of that country. If someone sincerely wanted to practice medicine in the US, they should enter the system earlier (i.e undergrad) than after they graduate medical school in their respective country.

I’m not a hardcore nationalist by any means, but it seems silly to give residency spots — which amounts to wasted tax dollars and a training spot that could have gone to someone else — to someone that has no intention of serving the healthcare needs of the US. We have far more students capable of becoming physicians than available med school spots, so there is no logical reason to outsource these spots to foreigners.

The rare exception, is those times where you have a student that is so brilliant (the > 270 variety) that it would be morally irresponsible to not provide them the best training available.
 
As an FMG myself, I will have to disagree. Being an FMG already puts you at a great disadvantage from the beginning (which tbh is understandable from any PD's perspective). Many US students might not realize the extent of the disadvantage we are during the match : it's not only that you just graduated from a med school outside of the states :

1)Your clerkships mean nothing because the clerkships here are done in a different way. You can't even match them.
2) You have no Dean's letter because guess what, the title of the Dean here means nothing and most students don't even know his name - and of course he doesn't know you, so if he writes you a letter out of pity because you told him about your dreams of doing your residency in the States, that's a two-line generic impersonal letter at best.
3) Your grades don't mean ****. You might get a 9 in IM during your 6th year which you literally worked your ass for but the PD doesn't know (and isn't obligated really) what scale are we talking about, the relative difficulty of getting x vs y grade, since exams are not standardized and non comparable between different schools or even what is that 6th year you 're talking about, as med school here is 6 years and there is no pre-med.
4) Your LOR's don't mean ****, even if you tried really hard to get them.
5) Doing your rotations here is VERY expensive for the average IMG. I'm not talking about the few millionaires from Indian who can easily afford them, I'm a European myself coming from a middle class family and just doing the steps, coming to the US for step 2cs and coming again for interviews is almost a year's worth of money of what BOTH my parents earn. Adding this the cost of 2 or 3 month stay in the States and the total cost goes overboard.
6) Prepping for the USMLE as a med student, at least in my country, almost certainly means that you get to be behind in your studies and graduating later and that might not be an option for many. And with no step scores while a student, good luck finding an elective - which can ONLY be done while in med school, and as we already mentioned, they 're expensive.

Therefore, as an FMG, going to the match with just great step scores, a publication if you 're really lucky and maybe an observership, with no US LOR's and no actual US clinical experience, the step scores are the only strong card in my hand. And I consider it fair, that I get the chance to put in the effort to make absolutely sure I gain this only advantage I can get, and that is of course taking the steps as a graduate. That of course while earning zero money (as my then-fellow med students are now working) and at the expense of my own personal life.

And for those who 'll ask "Then why come here?", the answer is because I want to get the best training I can get worldwide and reach my full potential as a medical doctor, while earning a decent amount of money while busting my ass off during residency - residents here might be working the same hours but earn around 1/4 of the average US salary.

I didn't come here to whine about being FMG. I actually think the US matching system is actually pretty good at filtering the average from the good and the good from the best. In comparison, we don't even have interviews for the residency spots, it's just a waiting list. Rather I posted this to make things clear about why having the chance to take the steps as a graduate is fair game.


Listen I understand your struggle, its not meant to be offensive, its meant to be fair, no one is saying that IMGs should not be allowed to take the step one, I have no idea how you came to that conclusion?

I said they should be graded against each other when it comes time to correcting you step 1 score.

Also you should not be complaining about money to any US or Caribbean student, they graduate with 250k+ in debt, medical school in Europe is $60,000 for six years? so no, you don't have crazy debt to pay off, your literally paying a 3rd for your medical education and complaining about cost? sorry I have to disagree with you here.

At the end of the day you get to take step 1 after 6+ years of medical training, and you don't have to pay $250 -$300k in debt back.
Yes your struggling, but financially your in a much better spot.

Basically your complaining because you want the money of a U.S. doctor with out the debt of a U.S. doctor.

I have no idea why your upset that your step 1 score would be graded against other step 1 scores of GRADUATES, why do you think it would be more fair for your step 1 score to be graded against STUDENTS.

Anyway, this was a fun break from my dedicated, back to studying! I wish you the best man, don't be offended, not my intent.
 
I could really give a damn about any damn FMG, IMG (both Caribbean and foreign) etc.

They can have all the leftover spots as soon as all of the US MD and US DO students have matched.

This is how it should be and I hope it stays this way.

I really hope PDs are pressured and continue to be pressured into accepting more US students in their hospitals (even if they are funded by greedy ass caribbean diploma mills).
 
I could really give a damn about any damn FMG, IMG (both Caribbean and foreign) etc.

They can have all the leftover spots as soon as all of the US M D and US DO students have matched.

This is how it should be and I hope it stays this way.

I really hope PDs are pressured and continue to be pressured into accepting more US students in their hospitals (even if they are funded by greedy ass caribbean diploma mills).
I could really give a damn about any damn FMG, IMG (both Caribbean and foreign) etc.

They can have all the leftover spots as soon as all of the US MD and US DO students have matched.

This is how it should be and I hope it stays this way.

I really hope PDs are pressured and continue to be pressured into accepting more US students in their hospitals (even if they are funded by greedy ass caribbean diploma mills).


 
Yes your education may not be at good as schools in US, but that discrepancy exists here too: low titer US MD versus high titer US MD. Based on your logic, does that mean low titer US MD schools should have been given a chance to take step after 3th or 4th year or longer time to study?

The difference is that at the end of the day, they still are US med students and 94.3% of them will match to a residency program, according to latest NRMP Match Statistics vs 57.4% of non-US IMGs.


Also, life is not fair. I understand where you come from. But I am personally a US resident and I am paying 100K more than others (after 80K scholarship) because I am going to out of state school, so if you choose to get a better education then it comes with a price tag unfortunately. It is a bullet that I had to bite, so I do not think what you mentioned is valid simply because that occurs here too whether FMG or US.

Fair point, top-tier education is costly. But as I said, the (relative to each country's per capita income speaking) huge costs is just one parameter that set FMGs to a disadvantageous position.

All of these are fair and valid points, and I truly admire your perseverance.

That said, the purpose of a country’s healthcare education system is to train physicians that will serve the healthcare needs of that country. If someone sincerely wanted to practice medicine in the US, they should enter the system earlier (i.e undergrad) than after they graduate medical school in their respective country.

That's really not an option for the average foreigner. Your chances of getting into undergrad are pretty slim and most people don't even bother applying. Unless of course you 're coming from a very rich family. Plus why would someone get in that huge debt (which is a really dumb system imo) in a country across the globe while there is still the potential to seek education there later in your career?

I’m not a hardcore nationalist by any means, but it seems silly to give residency spots — which amounts to wasted tax dollars and a training spot that could have gone to someone else — to someone that has no intention of serving the healthcare needs of the US. We have far more students capable of becoming physicians than available med school spots, so there is no logical reason to outsource these spots to foreigners.

The rare exception, is those times where you have a student that is so brilliant (the > 270 variety) that it would be morally irresponsible to not provide them the best training available.

I actually have the same opinion with you regarding our own health system or any other average country's health system. The difference is that the US is not just any other country, but the world's leading power in medical research and health care (despite the fact that because of hardcore capitalism it doesn't care to everyone's needs).

It only sounds rational that best in the world should take advantage of this and try attract the best of the best from other countries. You are right that there are enough students capable of becoming good doctors but I can assure you that in a world of 7 billion, there is a far greater number of determined students who have the potential to become excellent doctors, after of course the positions for excellent doctors are already filled by the natives, which is pretty much the current situation. And as long as it is the leader in health care, the US shouldn't care where these doctors are coming from - most countries don't have the convenience of choosing only the best between such a large pool of future doctors.
 
Why the vitriol against the poor FMGs. They are only using the loophole that the politicians WE (or rather those before us) voted for. That they come without the burden of student loans is not their fault. The student loans started exploding because our government started giving out student loans like there is no tomorrow and so the schools just drove up the prices. ESPECIALLY the med schools. So we have to thank those politicians that helped create this huge bubble a la the 2008 housing bubble... and, of course, the med schools.

Regarding the graduate vs student issue: i wanna ask you all. Do you really think that an average 1st or 2nd year resident can actually get an above average score within the 6 wk dedicated if he/she were asked to retake step 1? My bet is NO WAY! The step 1 score in most schools taking the boards after a year of clinicals has gone up by 10 points on average. I bet any one taking a year longer could get 10 additional points in a year...

So how do you guys imagine that a person who most likely doesn't even speak english well enough (and will hopefully learn it by the time they see the patients!) should go over our US-based curriculum while doing his/her own mandatory prep? I mean how many students do you guys know in non-pass/fail schools that actually study for the boards during one of those crazy classes that are run by professors reading off their favorite harrison's pages? So imagine if your curriculum were totally different from ours and you would be expected to also study for the USMLE... how feasible would that be?

USMLE scores are a valid measure of hard work a person is willing to put and scores are comparable between whoever. And I want the best doctor I can get, not a doctor who graduated MD because a school taught him the basics required to pass USMLE and he/she passed with a flying 197. I do think that USMLE-based knowledge, along with more knowledge and work experience learned during the residency AND work ethic are not mutually exclusive. I would prefer to be seen by a top grad from whatever country rather than walk out of a doctor's office wondering how on earth they passed their boards (happened to me in a TOP institution...).

What do you call the person graduating last in his med school class?
Ans: Doctor....
 
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Listen I understand your struggle, its not meant to be offensive, its meant to be fair, no one is saying that IMGs should not be allowed to take the step one, I have no idea how you came to that conclusion?

I said they should be graded against each other when it comes time to correcting you step 1 score.

Also you should not be complaining about money to any US or Caribbean student, they graduate with 250k+ in debt, medical school in Europe is $60,000 for six years? so no, you don't have crazy debt to pay off, your literally paying a 3rd for your medical education and complaining about cost? sorry I have to disagree with you here.

At the end of the day you get to take step 1 after 6+ years of medical training, and you don't have to pay $250 -$300k in debt back.
Yes your struggling, but financially your in a much better spot.

Basically your complaining because you want the money of a U.S. doctor with out the debt of a U.S. doctor.

I have no idea why your upset that your step 1 score would be graded against other step 1 scores of GRADUATES, why do you think it would be more fair for your step 1 score to be graded against STUDENTS.

Anyway, this was a fun break from my dedicated, back to studying! I wish you the best man, don't be offended, not my intent.

I think you 've misunderstood what I previously wrote. Basically my point is that since FMGs come with a bunch of disadvantages and their only way of proving they 're really worth it is the steps and taking the steps at a point equivalent to MS2 like US students might not be viable, it's only fair for them to be given the chance to take the test as graduates - and since this is a standardized exam they really are graded against each other. Also US med students can get away with much lower grades (which is fair given the pressure for when to take the exam). A 205 US med student can still match to FM but a 205 for an FMG is basically a death sentence regarding residency in the US. Of course there will always be that success story of an old grad with low step scores who finally matches but that is the exception really.

As far as debt goes, why should there be one in the first place. Med school is actually free here and all great minds should have access to equal opportunities despite any financial differences. It should be only excellence that dictates who goes further and who doesn't and ideally financial background shouldn't be a determining factor. But that's a topic for another time.

No offence taken and I hope the same goes for you. Good luck with your studying.
 
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Well said. Step 1 is neither a clinical aptitude test nor an IQ test. It's a very hard pill for a lot of people to swallow, but the fact of the matter is that hard work is far and away the most important factor to doing well on boards. I honestly believe that literally every single person in my class was capable of a 260+ on Step 1, but in reality <5 will achieve it. I haven't gotten my score back yet, but if I end up as one of those few top scorers, the only reason will have been because I worked much harder than most people. I'm not smarter than those kids, but I was consistently the only one in the library until 11 PM pre-dedicated. I was the only one to head straight to the library after completing final exams. I was putting in more hours per week since M1 than they were putting during dedicated. And that's precisely why Step 1 is so valuable - it tells you who wants it bad enough and is willing to sacrifice. Pumping out research does not even come close. Sure, research can be a grind too. But for every person who put in hundreds of hours towards a research paper, there are probably 2 more people who just got their names put on one because they kissed the right ass at the right time.
Saying its not an IQ test implies that test-taking skills have nothing to do with your results. This is patently false. Also, intelligent people are more able to remember what they learn and moreover are able to absorb difficult concepts whereas less intelligent students cant grasp the hardest concepts, particularly given the short 2 years granted.
So yes, the exam isnt an IQ test, but intelligence is absolutely required to succeed.
 
Aww. Step 1 giving you a hard time kiddo


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Not really bruh.

The worst that can happen to a US student is ending up in FM in a shanty town for 3 years.

After that you can literally go anywhere in the country and get a job.

FMGs and IMGs gotta hit average to above average to do the same.

I pray for everybody else who doesn't have that luxury.
 
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I think you 've misunderstood what I previously wrote. Basically my point is that since FMGs come with a bunch of disadvantages and their only way of proving they 're really worth it is the steps and taking the steps at a point equivalent to MS2 like US students might not be viable, it's only fair for them to given the chance to take the test as graduates - and since this is a standardized exam they really are graded against each other. Also US med students can get away with much lower grades (which is fair given the pressure for when to take the exam). A 205 US med student can still match to FM but a 205 for an FMG is basically a death sentence regarding residency in the US. Of course there will always be that success story of an old grad with low step scores who finally matches but that is the exception really.

As far as debt goes, why should there be one in the first place. Med school is actually free here and all great minds should have access to equal opportunities despite any financial differences. It should be only excellence that dictates who goes further and who doesn't and ideally financial background shouldn't be a determining factor. But that's a topic for another time.

No offence taken and I hope the same goes for you. Good luck with your studying.

It's funny how some people coming here still assume education should be free. And a la our hollywood elite who demand equality for all and a ban on guns while surrounding themselves with an army of bodyguards and sending their kids to private schools... Nothing should be free and nothing is. Just like you are coming here to be better off financially - so there are millions of others who want to make a better living in their own ways. The "free" education in some countries is "free" because of taxes through the roof. If you calculate costs over a life time it is better to pay for everything yourself and have a decent salary. It is this socialist mentality that resulted in the loans to skyrocket. Before that loans were almost non-existent... And of course there will be some unlucky cases and some exceptionally lucky ones but the majority alwaays profits in pure capitalism (assuming least corruption possible). This country is the greatest, most powerful economy because capitalist ideals drove it to be this way. Our less fortunate were probably better taken care of than "average" elsewhere most of the time. People like to show extreme cases for sensationalism but did anyone read of masses of people dying on the streets in the US @ any point in time? Never happened as far as i know... It is free market that best determines waht is best. And governments should stay out of it.

ahhh better get off sdn... 🙂
 
Hey everyone

Not exactly sure where to post this, but I think I got between an 80-85 percent overall on step 1. Any correlates to actual score?

Thanks! Good luck everyone!
 
It's funny how some people coming here still assume education should be free. And a la our hollywood elite who demand equality for all and a ban on guns while surrounding themselves with an army of bodyguards and sending their kids to private schools... Nothing should be free and nothing is. Just like you are coming here to be better off financially - so there are millions of others who want to make a better living in their own ways. The "free" education in some countries is "free" because of taxes through the roof. If you calculate costs over a life time it is better to pay for everything yourself and have a decent salary. It is this socialist mentality that resulted in the loans to skyrocket. Before that loans were almost non-existent... And of course there will be some unlucky cases and some exceptionally lucky ones but the majority alwaays profits in pure capitalism (assuming least corruption possible). This country is the greatest, most powerful economy because capitalist ideals drove it to be this way. Our less fortunate were probably better taken care of than "average" elsewhere most of the time. People like to show extreme cases for sensationalism but did anyone read of masses of people dying on the streets in the US @ any point in time? Never happened as far as i know... It is free market that best determines waht is best. And governments should stay out of it.

ahhh better get off sdn... 🙂

The idea that a young adult with 0 income (unless you work - and having to work as a med student is also absurd) is forced to pay 6 figures for his education and ends up repaying that debt for his whole life is absurd. Why not create equal opportunities in the beginning for everyone? Those who manage to succeed financially will pay higher taxes, which in turn allow for the education to continue to be free.

Basically it's the same thing, successful financially-independent adults get to pay big money, only difference is who gets it : Repaying greedy bankers while people are left out of university completely and poor people having no insurance vs the state in the form of taxes that are spent in order to provide equal opportunities in education and health care.

Not going to post anything other related to this, since we already are offtopic. Plus they might be keeping tabs on me after what I wrote, shall I ever manage to make it to the US...After all Americans consider Bernie to be a communist.
 
Wao that's really encouraging. Would you mimd sharing your other nbmes and UWSA scores ?

NBMEs:
13: 240 (4 weeks out)
15: 242 (3 weeks out)
16: 244 (2 weeks out)
17: 259 (taken 4 days before)
19: 240 (2 weeks out)

UWorld:

UW1: 247 (5 weeks out)
It's funny how some people coming here still assume education should be free. And a la our hollywood elite who demand equality for all and a ban on guns while surrounding themselves with an army of bodyguards and sending their kids to private schools... Nothing should be free and nothing is. Just like you are coming here to be better off financially - so there are millions of others who want to make a better living in their own ways. The "free" education in some countries is "free" because of taxes through the roof. If you calculate costs over a life time it is better to pay for everything yourself and have a decent salary. It is this socialist mentality that resulted in the loans to skyrocket. Before that loans were almost non-existent... And of course there will be some unlucky cases and some exceptionally lucky ones but the majority alwaays profits in pure capitalism (assuming least corruption possible). This country is the greatest, most powerful economy because capitalist ideals drove it to be this way. Our less fortunate were probably better taken care of than "average" elsewhere most of the time. People like to show extreme cases for sensationalism but did anyone read of masses of people dying on the streets in the US @ any point in time? Never happened as far as i know... It is free market that best determines waht is best. And governments should stay out of it.

ahhh better get off sdn... 🙂

I think restricting access to education to those who can afford it only serves to concentrate wealth, power and opportunity in the upper classes :shrug:
 
Thank you for your reply. I'm just a couple of weeks away from my exsm. Still have to take uwsa2 and nbme 18.
Previous nbmes got 240 in all of them. But I think what matters most is the says of exam. How much you have control on your nerves and a good sleep is all what you need on that day. But still you never know.
If you're a couple weeks out, and the scales haven't changed significantly, you should be just fine.
 
Has anyone who took the exam in May gotten their scores back yet? I've been hearing conflicting things about the score release. If so, what date did you take the exam? Thanks!
 
Has anyone who took the exam in May gotten their scores back yet? I've been hearing conflicting things about the score release. If so, what date did you take the exam? Thanks!

as far as I know everyone on May 7th has gotten scores (everyone I know who took it on the 7th, anyway) but no one after.
 
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