Official 2020-2021 Rheumatology Fellowship Application Cycle

[tacowithgreensauce]

Hi

Do you have any input on the programs at Yale, UPMC , BIDMC and Georgetown and how they compare with each other ? Also for Cleveland Clinic and Emory- They both are big names but the sense I got was that these places are predominantly clinical programs and not big on doing any research and I wanted to know if that was your impression as well

Any insight would be super helpful!

Thank you

i guess u need to determine what ur career goals are.

i found some of these programs are verrrrry research oriented and others are more clinically oriented.

for my own rank list last year, i personally ranked several “clinically stronger” programs over some “top tier programs” because they ultimately fit my career-path better

do u want a 3 year program or a 2 year program ... and y? that’s the question u should first answer before u figure out how u will rank them.

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[richa11]

Any ideas about Chicago programs like loyola or rush? Loyola seems like they make the first year work hard with lots of call days.

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

Any ideas about Chicago programs like loyola or rush? Loyola seems like they make the first year work hard with lots of call days.

i think there is a big misconception out there. youre going to be worked hard no matter where you go for fellowship. sure it’s not IM residency hours, but I’m realizing fellowship is a different kind of beast.

with that said, if you feel that all things are otherwise the same between the two programs, then i would prefer the program with more co-fellows. but thats just me.

i will say though, if u like loyola better fits your career goals, then dont be discouraged by the fact that it is a one fellow a year program.

 

[Animalcules]

i think there is a big misconception out there. youre going to be worked hard no matter where you go for fellowship. sure it’s not IM residency hours, but I’m realizing fellowship is a different kind of beast.

with that said, if you feel that all things are otherwise the same between the two programs, then i would prefer the program with more co-fellows. but thats just me.

i will say though, if u like loyola better fits your career goals, then dont be discouraged by the fact that it is a one fellow a year program.

Objectively, Rush is the better program, but that does not mean it is the better fit for you.

 

[Aspyn]

Any insight on any standout California programs?

 

[Residentdoc86]

Thanks for all the updates. I am applying next year. I think it would be helpful to put together a list of program strengths and career paths. Good luck to everyone applying.

 

[krismurthy78in]

What are my chances to match with 10 ivs?

 

[Animalcules]

What are my chances to match with 10 ivs?

Good. Unless you are terrible at interviews, then bad.

 

[miamiamia]

you’re middle of the road programs seem to have a NE and southern flavor to them.

i think theyre all fine programs, and this is my own bias, but last year for my “middle of the ROL programs”, i ranked them based on
“us news ranking” and livability of city. i would also take into account “i would be willing to live in this area after i graduate“

me personally? id rank them as
emory
hofstra
san antonio/ usf
albany/weschester

again all great programs would be happy to go to any

True! Thank you so much, this was very helpful for me.

 

[richa11]

If you are thinking of going into private practice, does it matter if you go to a competitive fellowship program or not for jobs?

 

[richa11]

Any comment on UCF florida program?

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

Any comment on UCF florida program?

it is a rheumatology program. they will allow u to sit for board certification.

any specific question u had in mind?

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

If you are thinking of going into private practice, does it matter if you go to a competitive fellowship program or not for jobs?

loaded question that im still too fresh into fellowship to be able to answer. ill leave this one for the more seasoned rheumies

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

Any insight on any standout California programs?

depends what ur career plans are. they standout depending on what u want.

i dont know if it is true or not but there is this old belief that california programs are competitive just based on the fact that they are in california.

 

[mszzeta]

you’re middle of the road programs seem to have a NE and southern flavor to them.

i think theyre all fine programs, and this is my own bias, but last year for my “middle of the ROL programs”, i ranked them based on
“us news ranking” and livability of city. i would also take into account “i would be willing to live in this area after i graduate“

me personally? id rank them as
emory
hofstra
san antonio/ usf
albany/weschester

again all great programs would be happy to go to any

I am a current rheum fellow who interviewed with hofstra, but not san antonio/ usf in my year of application

just pure out of curiosity, I wonder why you would rank hofstra higher than san antonio/ usf?

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

I am a current rheum fellow who interviewed with hofstra, but not san antonio/ usf in my year of application

just pure out of curiosity, I wonder why you would rank hofstra higher than san antonio/ usf?

personally, i ranked them as such based on my city preference. i have more local ties to NY > TX > FL.

granular details that one could consider is # of fellows, publication record of faculty, VA association, length of training, sub-specialty clinics (which has both pros and cons imo), research funding, ongoing trials, local ties, ultrasound, graduate first jobs, benefits, gme benefits, emr, vibe of faculty, etc.

when i ranked last year, i took it to a granular detail for my upper half of my ROL and for the bottom half i gave a strong preference to where i thought i’d be happiest.

gl to everyone!

 

[miamiamia]

I am a current rheum fellow who interviewed with hofstra, but not san antonio/ usf in my year of application

just pure out of curiosity, I wonder why you would rank hofstra higher than san antonio/ usf?

Hi! May I ask what your impression of Hofstra was when you interviewed there?

 

[richa11]

it is a rheumatology program. they will allow u to sit for board certification.

any specific question u had in mind?

In terms of how the program is ranked compared to other florida programs?

 

[mszzeta]

personally, i ranked them as such based on my city preference. i have more local ties to NY > TX > FL.

granular details that one could consider is # of fellows, publication record of faculty, VA association, length of training, sub-specialty clinics (which has both pros and cons imo), research funding, ongoing trials, local ties, ultrasound, graduate first jobs, benefits, gme benefits, emr, vibe of faculty, etc.

when i ranked last year, i took it to a granular detail for my upper half of my ROL and for the bottom half i gave a strong preference to where i thought i’d be happiest.

gl to everyone!

Thank you for your opinion. I am very impressed by the granular details you went for your RoL.

 

[Aspyn]

@tacowithgreensauce thank you so much for all the insightful information.. it's helpful having someone who's been through it weigh in

This year, since we haven't been able to visit cities/places/get the vibes, do you think this list would be helpful? https://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/rankings/rheumatology

 

[Animalcules]

personally, i ranked them as such based on my city preference. i have more local ties to NY > TX > FL.

granular details that one could consider is # of fellows, publication record of faculty, VA association, length of training, sub-specialty clinics (which has both pros and cons imo), research funding, ongoing trials, local ties, ultrasound, graduate first jobs, benefits, gme benefits, emr, vibe of faculty, etc.

when i ranked last year, i took it to a granular detail for my upper half of my ROL and for the bottom half i gave a strong preference to where i thought i’d be happiest.

gl to everyone!

Thank you for your opinion. I am very impressed by the granular details you went for your RoL.

Sub-specialty clinics are the way to go to learn the intricate nuances of treating patients with rheumatic diseases. Don't expect to become good at treating all the phenotypically different subtypes of myositis when you see it a couple of times a year.

 

[mszzeta]

Hi! May I ask what your impression of Hofstra was when you interviewed there?

1. Hofstra is not a very prestigious university in medicine overall. But there are nationally renowned rheum faculty there, including people who are expert in clinical trial and lab-based research

2. Clinical wise, rheum is about seeing rare complicated challenging cases. And places such as Emory is the biggest tertiary referral center for the all GA state, while for Hofstra, there are already many very prestigious university hospitals at NYC. So I am not sure if the cases you see there will be comparable to other fellowship in a more remote state. But it should probably be decent enough for private practice.

3. Great Neck (or Long Island), NY, in my opinion, is one of the best place to live in the country

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Hey @Taco, did you interview at any of the Mayo’s during your cycle?

 

[sm14]

I would appreciate any input on ranking Montefiore, Rutgers Newark, Stony Brook, George Washington, Indiana and Loma Linda programs. Personally, I want to stay in the east coast but I am worried about ranking location over the quality of training.

 

[rheum546]

Thoughts on New Mexico rheum program?

 

[richa11]

Any thoughts on community rheumatology programs that is mostly clinic and not consult service? Will that impact your job opportunities later on?

 

[Animalcules]

Any thoughts on community rheumatology programs that is mostly clinic and not consult service? Will that impact your job opportunities later on?

That seems like a terrible idea. You need to see the sick acute cases to learn.

 

[mszzeta]

Any thoughts on community rheumatology programs that is mostly clinic and not consult service? Will that impact your job opportunities later on?

What do you mean "mostly"? How many inpatient months? How many new consult a week? What is the inpatient disease spectrum, especially for the rare acute crazy rheum staff?

From what I know, Cleveland Clinic has only 4 months inpatient for 2-year fellowship. But their intensity and disease spectrum may probably yield an even better training outcomes than some other programs.

It also matters if you plan to do outpatient-predominate private practice or doing heavy and complex consult in a university hospital after graduate

 

[mszzeta]

I would appreciate any input on ranking Montefiore, Rutgers Newark, Stony Brook, George Washington, Indiana and Loma Linda programs. Personally, I want to stay in the east coast but I am worried about ranking location over the quality of training.

I only interviewed at Montefiore, but know people at George Washington and Loma Linda

They are all at similar level in my opinion. So I totally agree if you want to prioritize the location first.

Montefiore is probably one of the biggest rheum program in the country (4 fellows per year!) and appears to have a good pathology mix (PD told me they saw a few ADULT Kawasaki disease, of course before COVID pandemic. incredible to me)

George Washington is particularly strong on scleroderma. Loma Linda is particularly strong on MSK ultrasound.

I believe there are other niches for these and other programs.

 

[sm14]

I only interviewed at Montefiore, but know people at George Washington and Loma Linda

They are all at similar level in my opinion. So I totally agree if you want to prioritize the location first.

Montefiore is probably one of the biggest rheum program in the country (4 fellows per year!) and appears to have a good pathology mix (PD told me they saw a few ADULT Kawasaki disease, of course before COVID pandemic. incredible to me)

George Washington is particularly strong on scleroderma. Loma Linda is particularly strong on MSK ultrasound.

I believe there are other niches for these and other programs.

Thank you very much!

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

in regards to the question about usnews ranking: i know rankings matter, but come on guys/gals ... you know in your gut when you’ve reached a certain level of “prestige” where rankings become frivolous. asking for people to compare mgh vs ucla vs “insert program” is kind of silly. (unless there is a very specific question they have). i’d even say this for asking someone to compare a “top tier program” vs a solid university program (unless there is a specific question in mind)

in regards to sub-speciality clinics: i guess im lucky enough to go to a place that offers these, and i agree about getting more comfortable with nuance. BUT there is alot of hassle at the same time. i won’t belabor the details, but it’s not all sunshine. at least as a trainee, grass is not always greener.

i agree that generally speaking, a referral center with less competing programs will offer more exposure. with that said though, locality and going somewhere that maximizes work-life balance is equally as important.

dont over think it. go with your gut and dont look back.cant speak for how things will look post-covid, but pre-covid rheum was considered competitive.

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

Hey @Taco, did you interview at any of the Mayo’s during your cycle?

i did not apply to Mayo Clinic

 

[Rheum123]

Hi this question is more for you guys @tacowithgreensauce @mszzeta
I’ve worked closely with a rheum research mentor at my home program (who’s also part of the admissions committee), and she wrote one of my LORs. My top choice right now is a program that my mentor personally trained at & she also worked there before. I was wondering if it would hurt to ask my mentor to advocate/call the PD for me since she has personal connections? As I know my home program is interested in keeping me, I’m not sure if letting her know my top choice would possibly hurt my ranking at the home program (if I don’t get into my top program)?

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

Hi this question is more for you guys @tacowithgreensauce @mszzeta
I’ve worked closely with a rheum research mentor at my home program (who’s also part of the admissions committee), and she wrote one of my LORs. My top choice right now is a program that my mentor personally trained at & she also worked there before. I was wondering if it would hurt to ask my mentor to advocate/call the PD for me since she has personal connections? As I know my home program is interested in keeping me, I’m not sure if letting her know my top choice would possibly hurt my ranking at the home program (if I don’t get into my top program)?

my home program knew i was taking interviews from other programs and was supportive of me ranking alternate programs higher.

i guess it’s program dependent, but i was told with open arms that they would be happy to have me and would not be upset if i ended up elsewhere. in my own limited experience it did not change how they internally ranked me or viewed me.

in fact one could argue that your success as a resident and ability to match elsewhere also speaks to their success. Also, it encourages collegiality amongst programs. like “hey you took our guy/gal last year... we’ll take your candidate this year/hey let’s do some collaborative research/etc”

i ultimately ended up at a different program than my home program. i like my current program alot and would rank it like i did for my ROL, but i will say there are advantages to training at the same place as you did residency. just to give an isolated example:

i find myself having to convince some of my attendings vs those who stayed local and did their residency here. they are already afforded that innate trust.

“let me tell you everything and convince you it’s fibro.” “BUT are you sure it’s not this??? what amount of pressure did you palpate the tenderpoint? why are you even using tender points?” etc

vs

“hey it’s fibro.” “k. let’s go”

it’s not necessarily a bad thing though. i think it’s a good thing to be uncomfortable. there is growth in that.

anyways to go back to your question: yes. if you know for a fact youre gonna rank a place #1. i would tell your mentor. there are pros/cons to training at a different program, but dont let the cons scare you. shoot your shot.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take
– Wayne Gretzky

just last thing i’ll say. only ask for your mentor to reccomend you to another program IF you’re going to 100% rank said program #1. don’t lie. don’t burn bridges. rheum is a small world.

typos. whatever. im on my phone and it’s my weekend off.

 

[Propane]

Does anybody know of the advantages/disadvantages of working at a HCA fellowship?

 

[Member2332]

I think it may depend on which area you area / community you are ultimately planning on settling down in . In Florida I don’t think it will influence ability to get a job cause there is a need for more community rheumatologists, but this may vary specifically which region of Florida you are looking into .

Any thoughts on community rheumatology programs that is mostly clinic and not consult service? Will that impact your job opportunities later on?

 

[mszzeta]

Hi this question is more for you guys @tacowithgreensauce @mszzeta
I’ve worked closely with a rheum research mentor at my home program (who’s also part of the admissions committee), and she wrote one of my LORs. My top choice right now is a program that my mentor personally trained at & she also worked there before. I was wondering if it would hurt to ask my mentor to advocate/call the PD for me since she has personal connections? As I know my home program is interested in keeping me, I’m not sure if letting her know my top choice would possibly hurt my ranking at the home program (if I don’t get into my top program)?

Sorry, I am not sure how someone in a program leadership position exactly think on this issue. But I would guess most people, especially those who wrote you a strong LoR, would not down-rank you after hearing your real most interested program. It is very common that people want to go to another program for fellowship rather than staying, and your PD should have seen countless of previous residents they wanted to keep and they went outside.

 

[woohaa]

Thoughts on New Mexico rheum program?

Strong clinical training. UNM clinic and consults are full of vasculitis/myositis/complex SLE patients. Has own infusion center. Faculty are very engaging and love to teach and train. Dedicated joint injection clinic for procedures. The complexity of UNM is balanced with VA clinic where you can see more bread and butter patients. Overall busy which leave less time for scholarly activity but expectations are 1-2 publications during fellowship and 1-2 PSQI projects.

 

[miamiamia]

Good luck, everyone!

 

[makunni]

Best of luck to everyone. Hope everyone will match to their fav program.

 

[admitone01]

Other than BIDMC giving access to collaborators, is it still a strong program clinically? Is it top tier?
Thank you

It all depends what you want to do: clinical trials, outcomes research, bench research.

Some thoughts:
Yale is a basic research powerhouse.
BIDMC gives you access to collaborators across the city of Boston if you are creative.
Georgetown is not in the same tier, but if you are interested in OA, this may be the place for you.
Cleveland Clinic is a prominent program, focus on vasculitis.

 

[Animalcules]

Other than BIDMC giving access to collaborators, is it still a strong program clinically? Is it top tier?
Thank you

Feel free to PM me.

 

[Ashkhan56]

Hi. Does anyone have a list of unfilled spots?

 

[Ashkhan56]

Hi can anyone share the unfilled spots list here please?

 

[sabsab]

Does anyone know how many spots in rheum remained unfilled?

 

[Ruby3]

Does anyone know how many spots in rheum remained unfilled?

7

 

[rokshana]

7

Wow

 

[miamiamia]

Congrats to all who matched and wish love strength and courage to those who didnt.

matched at my #3, a univ program in a major city and am very excited. US-img, steps in 240s, 1 qi at acr, bunch of oral presentations and posters, 3-4 case reports published, strong LOR (2 rheum, 1 pd, 1 hospitalist).

 

[tacowithgreensauce]

Congrats to all who matched and wish love strength and courage to those who didnt.

matched at my #3, a univ program in a major city and am very excited. US-img, steps in 240s, 1 qi at acr, bunch of oral presentations and posters, 3-4 case reports published, strong LOR (2 rheum, 1 pd, 1 hospitalist).

congrats to u and everyone!

i wish u all the best. see u all at acr

 

[Sdveronicasd]

Congratulations! For those that have matched, if you don’t mind can you post your stats? I didn’t match this year but hoping to for the next cycle.