**Official** CONFUSED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MD AND DO thread

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JaggerPlate said:
ROFL bad luck. Yeah, I know some people who dropped out of pre-med with 'bad luck' too. It sucked, they wouldn't study or try hard or put forth the effort and then, just because GOD was trying to screw them ... they'd fail. This thread is ****ing stupid. I think we all agree that arguing about this for the sake of a pre-med dead set on plastics is pointless and I think we all agree that for certain top tier, highly competitive ACGME specialties ... DOs suffer. Close.
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There's no need to be curt.
 
Decicco said:
Just because the residency program is at Harvard does not mean it is a good residency program. Some big name medical schools have some relatively low-grade residencies, it just depends on the school's individual strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure there have been DOs in some of their programs.
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So what your saying is that top med schools may not have top residencies?? 😱 [sarcasm] lol.....did you just want to be the thousanth person on SDN to reiterate this? I'm siding with Latebloomer here. No reference of residency quality is mentioned at all...just the schools reputation, and that it what matters to the general public.
 
dozitgetchahi said:
This is approximately true, although chiropractors have a rather elaborate (and questionable) set of philosophies that ARE NOT shared by osteopathic physicians. For instance, you won't hear DOs talking about subluxations (at least not subluxations in the chiropractic sense).
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The only subluxations I know about are the rather painful dances my kneecaps sometimes do... what do chiropractors mean by it?
 
amichael2587 said:
So what your saying is that top med schools may not have top residencies?? 😱 [sarcasm] lol.....did you just want to be the thousanth person on SDN to reiterate this? I'm siding with Latebloomer here. No reference of residency quality is mentioned at all...just the schools reputation, and that it what matters to the general public.
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mayo's ortho chief resident 2 years ago was a DO from DMU
 
amichael2587 said:
So what your saying is that top med schools may not have top residencies?? 😱 [sarcasm] lol.....did you just want to be the thousanth person on SDN to reiterate this? I'm siding with Latebloomer here. No reference of residency quality is mentioned at all...just the schools reputation, and that it what matters to the general public.
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Unless the general public needs an extremely risky procedure, I'd wager that they want a competent and caring doctor, regardless of he or she trained at Harvard, JHU, Yale, or a less known institution.

I have hospitals around my home town that are continously ranked by USNews and other agencies as leaders in various fields. You've probably never heard of St. Luke's hospital yet it is one of the continuously high-ranking hospitals in cardiac care. They aren't associated with an academic medical center but do well on their own.
 
I would say it's pretty much physical therapy. From what I've heard from Phys Therapy people, we do nearly identical things.

It's not a wonderskill that heals all things. It's simply a nice supplement for a modest % of your patients, depending on what type of doctor you are. It's also nice to be able to ALWAYS have the tool you need for it with you: your hands.
 
Bacchus said:
Unless the general public needs an extremely risky procedure, I'd wager that they want a competent and caring doctor, regardless of he or she trained at Harvard, JHU, Yale, or a less known institution.

I have hospitals around my home town that are continously ranked by USNews and other agencies as leaders in various fields. You've probably never heard of St. Luke's hospital yet it is one of the continuously high-ranking hospitals in cardiac care. They aren't associated with an academic medical center but do well on their own.
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St. Lukes is right across the street from Columbia University; I'm pretty sure they're connected. I volunteered at its sister hospital, Roosevelt. 🙂

Unless, of course, there's some other St. Lukes.
 
circulus vitios said:
There's no need to be curt.
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Realistic. Don't limit yourself because you think you have 'bad luck.' That's BS. The application process can be random, but thinking you aren't going to get in because of bad luck is silly. Make your own luck.
 
seriously

if osteo students learn all the same things PLUS with more of a focus on the humanistic aspects of medicine.. WHY is allo more sought after?

am i not understanding the difference here?

please feel free to give me the news.
 
mainly cuz the reasons of having the letters MD after your name instead of DO.
 
apart from that one...

or why isn't "DO" the more exciting pair of letters? just because it isn't recognized on the other side of the atlantic??
 
time2go said:
mainly cuz the reasons of having the letters MD after your name instead of DO.
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No, not really.

Osteopathic medicine is still a new concept for much of the general public, including a LOT of pre-med students, almost all of which apply to MD schools. MD schools have usually been able to pick the "best" from the applicant pool, thus maintaining their high MCAT/GPA averages. DO schools, on the other hand, have had somewhat different admissions criteria; for a while they were stuck with an applicant pool that simply had stats that were not good enough for MD schools, but they have also been able to look beyond the numbers and have also usually had a much higher affinity towards non-traditional applicants. However, the gap between MD and DO schools' averages are definitely closing, and as osteopathic medicine is spreading, it is also converging with allopathic medicine, so these days there is not much of a difference between the two other than OMM. So if anything, I'd chock it down to lack of knowledge of osteopathic medicine and a lot of misinformation.

And the DO degree IS recognized "on the other side of the Atlantic".
 
medhearter said:
apart from that one...

or why isn't "DO" the more exciting pair of letters? just because it isn't recognized on the other side of the atlantic??
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There isn't a whole lot apart from that one. Some people want to be just like the TV shows... some people just don't know what a DO is. Another possibility is that there are way more state MD programs, so they're a lot cheaper than private DO programs.

Those are guesses. Sometimes I wonder if people are just weird.
 
medhearter said:
apart from that one...

or why isn't "DO" the more exciting pair of letters? just because it isn't recognized on the other side of the atlantic??
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IMO, time2go nailed it. There's no secret or no conspiracy. There are probably lots of theories, but one is certainly familiarity: more docs have MD degrees than DO degrees, the MD degree is more recognizable, there are more MD programs, more people apply to MD programs, MD programs in general have been around longer.
 
Jack Daniel said:
IMO, time2go nailed it. There's no secret or no conspiracy. There are probably lots of theories, but one is certainly familiarity: more docs have MD degrees than DO degrees, the MD degree is more recognizable, there are more MD programs, more people apply to MD programs, MD programs in general have been around longer.
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Also, folks should recognize that Osteopathic Medicine is still the 2nd most competitive degree program in the health care field. It's not Podiatry or Chiropractic people 😉
 
just go to a bookstore and pick up one of those US NEWS medical school book. It has the acceptance rates for DO schools and you will notice that a lot of the schools have an acceptance rates ranging from 15%-10%. Some even go as low as 5%!

Yes stats wise DO schools are generally 3.4-3.5 and 25-27 MCAT which is lower than allopathic schools but the number of applicants applying to these schools still make the process competitive.
 
Hokie06 said:
just go to a bookstore and pick up one of those US NEWS medical school book. It has the acceptance rates for DO schools and you will notice that a lot of the schools have an acceptance rates ranging from 15%-10%. Some even go as low as 5%!

Yes stats wise DO schools are generally 3.4-3.5 and 25-27 MCAT which is lower than allopathic schools but the number of applicants applying to these schools still make the process competitive.
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Hold on, cowboy. Let's be clear about what those stats actually mean. They are dividing their class size by the number of applications that they received. By that measure, Harvard accepted about 3% of applicants in 2006. Now, it's late and I'm tired but you're not going to convince me that some DO school is as competitive as Harvard.

Those numbers that you are touting are inflated by people (myself included) who submitted apps to DO schools as backups with no intention of attending if things went as planned.

An inflated denominator doesn't turn people's last ditch effort before heading to the Caribbean into a "competitive" school.
 
hermit said:
Hold on, cowboy. Let's be clear about what those stats actually mean. They are dividing their class size by the number of applications that they received. By that measure, Harvard accepted about 3% of applicants in 2006. Now, it's late and I'm tired but you're not going to convince me that some DO school is as competitive as Harvard.

Those numbers that you are touting are inflated by people (myself included) who submitted apps to DO schools as backups with no intention of attending if things went as planned.

An inflated denominator doesn't turn people's last ditch effort before heading to the Caribbean into a "competitive" school.
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1. Your bull**** is tiring. Seriously, find something better to do with your time. The continual DO bashing is old ... we all get it.
2. Numbers that low indicate that 5% = number attending/total number of applicants. Not accepted applicants/total number of applicants (which would be higher).
 
theStrand said:
Good 'ole hermit, the standby DO basher.
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How is keeping the facts straight considered bashing?

Ol' boy was patting himself on the back by misinterpreting an admission statistic. If (class size/apps) is our metric, I'm sure there are some cosmetology schools out there with similar numbers.
 
medhearter said:
seriously

if osteo students learn all the same things PLUS with more of a focus on the humanistic aspects of medicine.. WHY is allo more sought after?

am i not understanding the difference here?

please feel free to give me the news.
Click to expand...

just want to throw out that there isnt more of a focus on the humanistic aspects of medicine for either degree, DO or MD.
 
theStrand said:
Did you go to a Caribbean school? If so, I understand where you're coming from. If not, I have no idea what your motives are.
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No...like I said earlier, I would have used one of the DO acceptances before heading to the Caribbean. And I wouldn't be running around telling people that my program is so competitive that only 1 in 20 are accepted...because that is a such an extreme misrepresentation that it borders on a lie.
 
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh::laugh: Hateration is always funny to me.
 
theStrand said:
Then why in the hell do you give a ****?
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A lot of time some very strong anti-DO bias surprisingly comes from people who applied both with DO as a backup, got into MD, and now feel the need to belittle osteopathic medical schools.
 
I applied to DO as a backup, got into MD...and fell in love with a DO school. and here I am 🙂 heh. So glad I went to my interviews with an open mind. I can't imagine myself anyplace else.

JaggerPlate said:
A lot of time some very strong anti-DO bias surprisingly comes from people who applied both with DO as a backup, got into MD, and now feel the need to belittle osteopathic medical schools.
Click to expand...
 
singinfifi said:
I applied to DO as a backup, got into MD...and fell in love with a DO school. and here I am 🙂 heh. So glad I went to my interviews with an open mind. I can't imagine myself anyplace else.
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I don't just say this because I am applying both ... but I honestly think your attitude is the only way to go into the interview process. There are so many factors that can lead to your success in med school, and it's good to take EVERYTHING - pros and cons- into consideration when making a decision on a school.
 
I post every now and then on this forum but I am a constant lurker. I personally believe that DO schools should really just integrate into the "MD" name. They are already the same curriculum sans the OMM for MD.(I am not DO bashing at all if anyone takes what I say as such) I wonder what ramifications would happen if a school were to do such a thing.
 
bioman2006 said:
I wonder what happens when an MD grad learns OMM in CME courses. Does that make him or her an osteopathic physician?
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How many of them get 200 hours' worth? Or learn as much as an NMM residency?

Oooh, plus you need cranial for the boards, so they aren't real osteopathic physicians unless they've had that too. 😉
 
LastPolarBear said:
I post every now and then on this forum but I am a constant lurker. I personally believe that DO schools should really just integrate into the "MD" name. They are already the same curriculum sans the OMM for MD.(I am not DO bashing at all if anyone takes what I say as such) I wonder what ramifications would happen if a school were to do such a thing.
Click to expand...

Someone on the DO forum said that TCOM is looking into awarding a degree that's both MD and DO.
 
hermit said:
Hold on, cowboy. Let's be clear about what those stats actually mean. They are dividing their class size by the number of applications that they received. By that measure, Harvard accepted about 3% of applicants in 2006. Now, it's late and I'm tired but you're not going to convince me that some DO school is as competitive as Harvard.

Those numbers that you are touting are inflated by people (myself included) who submitted apps to DO schools as backups with no intention of attending if things went as planned.

An inflated denominator doesn't turn people's last ditch effort before heading to the Caribbean into a "competitive" school.
Click to expand...

A lot of people apply to schools just for the sake of applying there and seeing what happens. Do you honestly think every applicant that applies to Harvard stands a shot? Nobody is trying to convince you that a school is as tough as one of the most difficult schools to be in. Don't be a friggin idiot. The statement is implying, that when held amongst schools that are not top tier international power houses (aka most state schools), admission criteria do not differ that greatly. The difference between many applicants is maybe a B instead of an A in a class or two and misreading a couple questions on the mcat.

There is a huge denominator at EVERY medical school. The introduction of internet based applications has made it very very easy for people to simply click boxes. In the 60s you MIGHT have applied to 4 schools max. Most docs I talked to said they only applied to 2 or 3. Even strong applicants now apply to 7 or 8 programs.

On the interview trail I have met some good people, some bad people and a lot of people in the middle. When I see the people rejected from a school post-inteview, it doesn't always make sense. I know of a person with a 3.8 and a 37 mcat that was rejected post-interview from the 2 DO schools he applied to. I know people that cheated all throughout college and still had mediocre stats that were somehow accepted to allopathic programs while the honest and hardworking kids were rejected. No matter what, we have to deal with each other. You aren't going to wall off your world and only talk to MDs from top 10 schools. So everyone, regardless of letters, needs to shut the hell up and just focus on the damn books. This is exhausting.
 
medhearter said:
seriously

if osteo students learn all the same things PLUS with more of a focus on the humanistic aspects of medicine.. WHY is allo more sought after?

am i not understanding the difference here?

please feel free to give me the news.
Click to expand...

Despite the fact that you are probably a troll:

In no particular order:
1) MD is better recognized nationally and internationally
2) Easier to get a better residency
3) Cheaper tuition- sometimes
4) Dont want to have to deal with a stigma if they dont have to
5) Better, more organized clinical education.
6) More recognized professors that lead their respective field
7) Research opportunities/desire to be academic physician
8) Better record on the boards
9) Better match lists w/o hurdles to competitive fields
10) Location


LastPolarBear said:
I post every now and then on this forum but I am a constant lurker. I personally believe that DO schools should really just integrate into the "MD" name. They are already the same curriculum sans the OMM for MD.(I am not DO bashing at all if anyone takes what I say as such) I wonder what ramifications would happen if a school were to do such a thing.
Click to expand...

I agree w/ this. Seems like nothing more than pride of the AOA leadership that prevents this.
 
alot of threads seem to bash the AOA, why is this?
 
In my experience, the only ones who bash DOs are *some* pesky MDs....
Seems fishy, no?🙄

My boss, who is an MD, came out of nowhere one day and asked why I was going for DO, and commented that I should go for MD because "its better" I tried really hard to get a good explanation out of him but got nothing. Say what you will about the benefits of MD vs DO, but it really comes down to a stigma and an attitude. It took the AMA 30+ years after Osteopathic schools began to be equivalent in training and education to give up their idea that Osteopathy was a cultist teaching.
Im not saying all MDs are like that, but too many of them have a better-than-thou attitude, not only amongst DO's but people in general. This is one of my main motivations for choosing to be a DO over an MD.
 
Instatewaiter said:
Despite the fact that you are probably a troll:

In no particular order:
1) MD is better recognized nationally and internationally
2) Easier to get a better residency
3) Cheaper tuition- sometimes
4) Dont want to have to deal with a stigma if they dont have to
5) Better, more organized clinical education.
6) More recognized professors that lead their respective field
7) Research opportunities/desire to be academic physician
8) Better record on the boards
9) Better match lists w/o hurdles to competitive fields
10) Location
Click to expand...

The fact of the probability... that's interesting.

I'm actually just a person who has recently discovered DO options (I know, ignorance happens when you're a canadian premed), and needs to know the difference between MDs and DOs

So.. thanks all for the list =]

I do think I'll apply both MD and DO this coming cycle.
 
Just Joshin said:
Someone on the DO forum said that TCOM is looking into awarding a degree that's both MD and DO.
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Nah, im pretty sure TCOM is looking into having an MD program that would award a separate degree. Michigan State has the same thing, graduates only receive the degree of the program they were accepted into and attended for the four years. A dual doctorate would take much longer than 4 years, and would be completely pointless when talking about MD/DO. That would almost be like receiving two PhD's in a very related field. There's almost no point.

Instatewaiter said:
Despite the fact that you are probably a troll:

In no particular order:
1) MD is better recognized nationally and internationally
2) Easier to get a better residency
3) Cheaper tuition- sometimes
4) Dont want to have to deal with a stigma if they dont have to
5) Better, more organized clinical education.
6) More recognized professors that lead their respective field
7) Research opportunities/desire to be academic physician
8) Better record on the boards
9) Better match lists w/o hurdles to competitive fields
10) Location
Click to expand...

Thats a pretty good list 👍
 
Last edited:
medhearter said:
since there is so much overlap.. it could take a max of 5 years to complete as well

allowing you to apply to both osteo and allo residencies..

this option should be available!

=]

in any case,

i found a link that helped me out with my questions:
http://www.princetonreview.com/GradPrograms.aspx?page=1&gpid=55

but thanks everyone!
good luck with everything.
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You already are able to apply to both osteopathic and allopathic residencies as a DO student. Though not the other way around for the MDs.
 
medhearter said:
i found a link that helped me out with my questions:
http://www.princetonreview.com/GradPrograms.aspx?page=1&gpid=55

but thanks everyone!
good luck with everything.
Click to expand...

That link really doesn't say anything different from the normal "What is a DO?" soundbite....

And this part is just an gross overgeneralization that's essentially worthless.
Therefore, if you want to work in medical research or in a competitive specialty area, you should pursue an M.D. instead. However, if you are interested in primary care—especially with a holistic approach—osteopathic medical school is an excellent option.
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Go look at some of recent match list threads and see where people are going and in what fields. I guess if you heart set on some elite Allo derm spot then yea, maybe you should get the MD, even then it's going to be an uphill battle all the way with just a little over 300 derm spots.
 
time2go said:
mainly cuz the reasons of having the letters MD after your name instead of DO.
Click to expand...

i agree with this. I have worked in an emergency room for 3 years and there are 4 MDs and 2 DOs. I didn't notice a difference until I saw it on their lab coat. A good doctor is a good doctor regardless of the last 2 letters.
 
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