Official: Harvard 2006

[letitgo]

Does anyone know anything about Harvard's Biochem class (like who teaches it, how difficult it is, etc.)? Is it offered more than one semester? I only need one semester of it, though, right? I have all my pre-reqs done except biochem, which I guess I should take. Don't want to, though.

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[Sundarban1]

Does anyone know anything about Harvard's Biochem class (like who teaches it, how difficult it is, etc.)? Is it offered more than one semester? I only need one semester of it, though, right? I have all my pre-reqs done except biochem, which I guess I should take. Don't want to, though.

This year there is a new biochemistry teacher, so I'm not sure. I know a few students who took it last year who said it was pretty good and not too difficult. However with the new professor, it could be different. Most schools require only one semester of biochem, you should call the specific school you are applying to to get the details.

 

[nanaschool2000]

Do you guys have a job? I know that classes aren't that expensive, but I was wondering how you all afford the places you live in right now. I heard that classes are pretty rigorous. As a person who is considering of doing HCP, I want to know what would be the proper amount of time to work while taking classes (like two courses).

Can someone tell me if SMP can help to enhance the poor science gpa from undergraduate? Someone tell me that graduate program doesn't really help making up for the poor science gpa from undergraduate.

 

[Sundarban1]

Do you guys have a job? I know that classes aren't that expensive, but I was wondering how you all afford the places you live in right now. I heard that classes are pretty rigorous. As a person who is considering of doing HCP, I want to know what would be the proper amount of time to work while taking classes (like two courses).

Can someone tell me if SMP can help to enhance the poor science gpa from undergraduate? Someone tell me that graduate program doesn't really help making up for the poor science gpa from undergraduate.

This has been addressed several times by myself and others in this thread. The majority of students do not work at all, or work part time at the most while in the program. You live off of loans for the entire time you are you. No, SMPs and other graduate level programs do not count towards your undergraduate GPA.

 

[Sundarban1]

For those of you taking physucks next semester you can visit the class website here where you can download old exams, syllabus, suggestions to do well, etc. I saw the pitiful syllabus posted online and I'm sure they will post a more in-depth one to come, but here I'll give you a head start.

 

[redsky]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=305932

What about the "bad reputation"? I would like to hear from you guys, who already study there. That made me question my decision. I was not thinking about attending Harvard because its name, but because I understood the program is very strong. The bad reputation, if true, might mean that the program is not that strong anymore.

 

[Sundarban1]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=305932

What about the "bad reputation"? I would like to hear from you guys, who already study there. That made me question my decision.

First of all the discussion in that thread and the article they were referring to did not pertain to the Health Careers Program at the Extention School. The HCP is one of the most established and regarded post bacc pre med programs around, so do not take advice from people not actually in the program itself. If you need further convincing you need simply to contact admissions at any medical school you may be applying to and ask them their opinion on the strength of the program.

There are many other areas of study and degrees offered at the Extention School, however the Heath Careers Program is, as I said, one of the most highy regarded around. End of story.

 

[jays2cool4u]

There are many other areas of study and degrees offered at the Extention School, however the Heath Careers Program is, as I said, one of the most highy regarded around. End of story.

Well said

 

[nanaschool2000]

First of all the discussion in that thread and the article they were referring to did not pertain to the Heath Careers Program at the extention school. The HCP is one of the most established and regarded post bacc pre med programs around, so do not take advice from people not actually in the program itself. If you need further convincing you need simply to contact admissions at any medical school you may be applying to and ask them their opinion on the strength of the program.

There are many other areas of study and degrees offered at the Extention School, however the Heath Careers Program is, as I said, one of the most highy regarded around. End of story.

Can you tell me what kind of loans you are referring to? Do people get enough loans to cover their living expenses? I'm really desperate.

 

[Sundarban1]

Can you tell me what kind of loans you are referring to? Do people get enough loans to cover their living expenses? I'm really desperate.

You might want to PM BOBLJ99, I know he using loans to pay for school and could give you some advice.

 

[BobLJ99]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=305932

What about the "bad reputation"? I would like to hear from you guys, who already study there. That made me question my decision. I was not thinking about attending Harvard because its name, but because I understood the program is very strong. The bad reputation, if true, might mean that the program is not that strong anymore.

You have to be joking! Do not listen to a word that johnnydrama(queen) and braluk have to say because neither one of them has the slightest inkling of what they are talking about. Johnny needs to seriously brush up on his reading comprehension skills for the MCAT because the article about the Extension School in the NYT said nothing about a bad reputation; the article was in fact speaking highly of the Extension School.

I have no idea what classes Johnny claims to have taken, but I can assure you that most of the classes and faculty are fantastic. If you have never taken any of the prerequisites for medical school, then you qualify for the Health Careers Program in which you get a Harvard ID card with many privileges and can attain sponsorship if you meet certain requirements. No worries if you have already taken some or all of the prerequisites, you can take upper level science classes and if certain requirements are met, you can obtain sponsorship.

As far as the rigor of the program, I can say that this program will challenge one as good as any other if not more. The classes are difficult and the faculty thus far has been top notch. Furthermore, as Sundarban alluded, the program is very well received and respected by medical schools. The assistant dean of admissions for the University of Vermont School of Medicine said that the Extension School’s premedical advising provide some of the best letters of recommendation. He also said that Owen Peterson is a literary genius.

Finally, the program you choose is ultimately up to you. There is not a lot of hand holding here and some people really want that. However, the rigor of the classes and the challenge to make it through are appealing to many. You should know that if the reputation was at stake, then why do many of the brightest from Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Stanford, and Princeton continue to choose the Extension School to fulfill their prerequisite courses for medical school?

 

[BobLJ99]

Can you tell me what kind of loans you are referring to? Do people get enough loans to cover their living expenses? I'm really desperate.

If you qualify for the diploma in premedical studies (i.e., have not taken biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics), you will be able to utilize federal loans for 12 consecutive months. After these 12 months, you will have to pay for cost of attendance out of pocket or through private loans.

I have used two private lenders. Year one in the program, I received federal aid, but needed a little more for living arrangements, so went with the Citiassist loan from Citibank: CitiAssist Loan


For my second and final year here, I am financing my total cost of attendance through a private loan through Bank of America called the Education Maximizer Loan: Education Maximizer Loan


Yes, taking out loan stinks, but is a necessary evil for many. Not everyone can get a full-time, good paying job in an expensive city like Boston and take classes that require as much focus as these do. Finding a good paying job that will accommodate to a student’s schedule is not as easy as many think. At some point, we all need to make sacrifices. Feel free to PM with any additional questions.

 

[plastictree]

a question...

I noticed the application for HES is for the Health Careers Program and there is none for Pre-med directly.

What I am wondering is, if I am interested in the Diploma for Pre-med studies, when I apply to HCP do I get admission directly into the diploma program or into HCP and then I have the option to complete the 8 requirements for the diploma?

 

[Sundarban1]

a question...

I noticed the application for HES is for the Health Careers Program and there is none for Pre-med directly.

What I am wondering is, if I am interested in the Diploma for Pre-med studies, when I apply to HCP do I get admission directly into the diploma program or into HCP and then I have the option to complete the 8 requirements for the diploma?

It is assumed that if you are applying it is for pre-medical studies. There should be an option on the application that you want to be considered as a diploma applicant. If you meet those requirements and you are accepted you are all set.

 

[dcb154]

Sundarban, Check your PMs.

 

[Maxprime]

I've officially decided - HCP here I come!!!

 

[Maxprime]

I know that it's been discussed before - but no one has asked specifically: Is taking 3 courses without working reasonable?

I thought I saw a link somewhere to find places to volunteer - anyone have any good suggestions on where people often go to get clinical experience? Thanks.

 

[Sundarban1]

I know that it's been discussed before - but no one has asked specifically: Is taking 3 courses without working reasonable?

I thought I saw a link somewhere to find places to volunteer - anyone have any good suggestions on where people often go to get clinical experience? Thanks.

We have discussed this numerous times. Most people do NOT take 3 classes, working or not. Is it unreasonable? That depends on your educational background. There is no concrete answer to the question because the ability to do well in these classes depends on you.

 

[Maxprime]

Any insider tips for those of us going through our first semester? Are any lab times better than others or anything along those lines?

 

[Maxprime]

Quick question - is it better to add the max # of classes you think you can handle and drop one or to wait and add one if you have capacity? I guess my question is more - if you're not enrolled in a class, can you attend the first few meetings just in case you may add it? Thanks.

 

[Sundarban1]

Any insider tips for those of us going through our first semester? Are any lab times better than others or anything along those lines?

You will sign up for labs the first day of class. Whatever fits into your schedule is the best. Try to avoid the 9-midnight physics lab.

 

[Maxprime]

For those that volunteer or work - what times do you find most convenient? I would assume it would be early morning until noonish and then you can study before class/lab and afterwards.

 

[Sundarban1]

Quick question - is it better to add the max # of classes you think you can handle and drop one or to wait and add one if you have capacity? I guess my question is more - if you're not enrolled in a class, can you attend the first few meetings just in case you may add it? Thanks.

The 4 basic science classes are open enrollment, so if you don't register the day class begins there is nothing to worry about. Yes you can sit in on science classes in the science center since the lecture halls are so big, no one knows who's registered or not. The only reason I would sign up for a class before deciding whether or not to drop it is if there is limited enrollment.

 

[BobLJ99]

The 4 basic science classes are open enrollment, so if you don't register the day class begins there is nothing to worry about. Yes you can sit in on science classes in the science center since the lecture halls are so big, no one knows who's registered or not. The only reason I would sign up for a class before deciding whether or not to drop it is if there is limited enrollment.

Also, the head TF's will NOT give you a section slot or lab slot unless you are officially registered.

 

[prav]

You will sign up for labs the first day of class. Whatever fits into your schedule is the best. Try to avoid the 9-midnight physics lab.

9-midnight physics lab = personal kindergarten

 

[Maxprime]

Which of the drop dates is the last one you can drop a class and not have it show up on your transcript?

 

[maximus07]

So I've made up my mind about HES...I'm going to send in my application in tomorrow. Since I have already taken the pre-reqs I will be taking other advanced science classes. I need to complete 28 credits to be sponsored and so I was thinking about taking 3 courses in the fall and biostats (which will continue into spring) and 3 courses in the spring. I'm defintely not working so I think I can handle the workload. What do you guys think about this? Any suggestions on the combination of particular classes I should take? Also I'm living inbetween porter & davis sq, anybody living out there?...LASTLY I WANT TO THANK ALL YOU GUYS/GALS OUT THERE FOR BEING SO HELPFULL AND DIRECTING US LOST FOLKS!

 

[Sundarban1]

9-midnight physics lab = personal kindergarten

Bits per pit baby

 

[Sundarban1]

Which of the drop dates is the last one you can drop a class and not have it show up on your transcript?

They will tell you the add/drop dates when you register, if its not already on the website.

 

[Sundarban1]

So I've made up my mind about HES...I'm going to send in my application in tomorrow. Since I have already taken the pre-reqs I will be taking other advanced science classes. I need to complete 28 credits to be sponsored and so I was thinking about taking 3 courses in the fall and biostats (which will continue into spring) and 3 courses in the spring. I'm defintely not working so I think I can handle the workload. What do you guys think about this? Any suggestions on the combination of particular classes I should take? Also I'm living inbetween porter & davis sq, anybody living out there?...LASTLY I WANT TO THANK ALL YOU GUYS/GALS OUT THERE FOR BEING SO HELPFULL AND DIRECTING US LOST FOLKS!

Are you trying to give me a heart attack

 

[nanaschool2000]

wow. Three courses @ HES. I heard that it's very tough to handle three courses in one semester. Is that the reason you are having a heartattack?

 

[Sundarban1]

wow. Three courses @ HES. I heard that it's very tough to handle three courses in one semester. Is that the reason you are having a heartattack?

We've just discussed this a lot. You can look back on the last page or search my previous posts thourgh my main profile to get the scoop.

 

[Maxprime]

They will tell you the add/drop dates when you register, if its not already on the website.

I saw the date, just wanted to clarify which one was the last time you had to not have it show up on your transcript as a WD - from my understanding, it's the third one (w/ no refund).

 

[Maxprime]

With the '07 MCAT offered almost every two weeks and score reporting down to 30 days, isn't there a greater incentive to finish pre-reqs quickly and try to avoid a third year?

 

[Sundarban1]

With the '07 MCAT offered almost every two weeks and score reporting down to 30 days, isn't there a greater incentive to finish pre-reqs quickly and try to avoid a third year?

No. Quicker is not better and most people realize that they want to take the MCAT and apply ONE TIME! Therefore students want to do it right the first time (ie not overloading, learning the material, getting their experience, not taking the MCAT until they are ready, etc.). Waiting a year is not going to make or break your medical school career, taking the MCAT unprepared is another story.

 

[Maxprime]

Everyone all registered up?

I've been trying to knock out the biology text - this class is going to be freaking hard - I am really surprised at my perceived mismatch in difficulty (bio vs. chem or physics). Has anyone else started? I breezed through the chem & physics texts, but the bio book is really sticking it to me - I was much more surprised when I saw how quickly we're covering topics (Lecture 2 is 4 chapters worth of material!).

I'm also headed to Boston next week to find a place and move in - has anyone actually stayed in the Boston Hostel? I'll be crashing somewhere until the first - thought that would be my best bet.

Anyone up for getting a beer sometime next week?

 

[dcb154]

Just got registered today. Do you guys have any suggestions on preparation for Chem and Physics for the first class? How many chapters do you suggest we knock out before hand?

 

[Maxprime]

I would do as much as time allows, but people may disagree with me. IMO for chem & physics, I'd read both books (the chapters for this semester) and have a decent understanding of the material. I'm saving a lot of problems to work during the semester so I'll be sharp on whatever we're working on. At the same time, I'm taking Bio too and think that it is a much more difficult text. I will probably not finish before class time, but every bit helps. I also don't have a job right now, so I have a lot of free time.

Do we have a class saying? I like:
"HCP, where the oldest gunners come to roost."

 

[dr_cheeks]

I am thinking about doing the HCP at HES and I have a question about sponsorship. Does the number of credits we need to take depend on our GPA at the time of application to the program, or will in progress classes be counted toward that too? Also, in order to get sponsorship, do we need to have finished all the required premed courses or do we have the option of finishing up later if the required number of credits have been completed? Thanks!

 

[ofthebest]

I just wanted to pop my head in here. I am getting my (belated) undergrad degree at HES and am planning to do the HCP as a part of my ALB degree. I won't actually start dipping my toes into the pre-reqs until next fall. This semester I'm taking the required expository writing class and cliche of cliches--a psych 101 class. I really need to beef up my math skills right before the prereqs so I'll be taking algebra and some other junk in the spring ('07).

I'm a bit of a freak--a 23 year old home-schooled humanities type who had 1 year at a miserable start-up college (now closed before ever attaining full accreditation ) and then 3 years of running around working random jobs in NYC. I moved to Cambridge last year for a part-time job at Harvard (and a boy). Working half-time at Harvard is brilliant because it pays well and gives you full benefits and your HES courses only cost you $40 each. I highly recommend it. I don't know if I'll be able to keep it up once I get into the hard stuff but my position is very flexible, so I am hoping yes.

I volunteer at Boston Healthcare for the Homeless, which I am hoping counts as some sort of "clinical" experience though it is mostly just taking vitals and putting cream and bandaids on feet. As I get further into the science morass I hope to find some small research position (hopeful still within Harvard so I can keep raking in the benefits)

The point of all this is just an introduction, and also a question...what "pre-prereqs" would you have taken right before you launched into the premed classes? As I said, I plan to take algebra, and get myself a really talented tutor because as I said my math needs help (it was just me and some textbooks and a notebook in my bedroom back in the high school years.) I have hope that I'll do well because I'm fairly smart and the one thing home schooling taught me was how to study alone. But I'm still wetting my pants at the phantom shadow of Biochem.

So, hi, and any advice from people already in the trenches is most welcome.

 

[dcb154]

IMO for chem & physics, I'd read both books (the chapters for this semester) and have a decent understanding of the material. QUOTE]

What chapters do we cover for this semester? I've looked on the syllabus and haven't seen any specific chapters...can you clue me in? I'm especially concerned about physics...

 

[Sundarban1]

I am thinking about doing the HCP at HES and I have a question about sponsorship. Does the number of credits we need to take depend on our GPA at the time of application to the program, or will in progress classes be counted toward that too? Also, in order to get sponsorship, do we need to have finished all the required premed courses or do we have the option of finishing up later if the required number of credits have been completed? Thanks!

The number of credits you will need to complete will depend on your GPA before you enter the program. I'm guessing the answer to your second question would be yes, but why would you complete 20+ credits and not complete all of the pre reqs before you apply? I would call Dr. Fixsen and ask.

 

[Sundarban1]

IMO for chem & physics, I'd read both books (the chapters for this semester) and have a decent understanding of the material. QUOTE]

What chapters do we cover for this semester? I've looked on the syllabus and haven't seen any specific chapters...can you clue me in? I'm especially concerned about physics...

Last year we covered though chapter 12 first semester. A few pages back I listed the course website. You should take a look for yourself.

 

[dr_cheeks]

The number of credits you will need to complete will depend on your GPA before you enter the program. I'm guessing the answer to your second question would be yes, but why would you complete 20+ credits and not complete all of the pre reqs before you apply? I would call Dr. Fixsen and ask.

Just to clarify, does that mean if I want to start in the spring, my grades from fall will be counted in my GPA for that even though I won't know what they are when I apply?

 

[Sundarban1]

Just to clarify, does that mean if I want to start in the spring, my grades from fall will be counted in my GPA for that even though I won't know what they are when I apply?

There is no application deadline so why would you apply now for the Spring? Just wait for your grades to come out, it only takes a week or 2 for them to get back to you. Furthermore if you are taking any of the 4 required pre-reqs you should know that they do not offer Chem Bio Ochem or Physics I in the Spring. If you were to start in the Spring you would be starting with the second semester of each class, which is not what they recommend if this is your frist time taking them.

 

[dr_cheeks]

There is no application deadline so why would you apply now for the Spring? Just wait for your grades to come out, it only takes a week or 2 for them to get back to you. Furthermore if you are taking any of the 4 required pre-reqs you should know that they do not offer Chem Bio Ochem or Physics I in the Spring. If you were to start in the Spring you would be starting with the second semester of each class, which is not what they recommend if this is your frist time taking them.

I didn't know we could apply so last minute. Ok, I'll just wait then. And yea, I saw the class schedules. I was going to take the second semester of physics if possible since I am taking physics now, or maybe some electives. Thanks for the info!

 

[maximus07]

just wondering why 3 courses at HES is so highly not recommended. I took 3 science courses + 2 electives in college for the past 4 years. I'm not working or volunteering during my time at Harvard so wouldn't I have enough time to read up and do my studying for each class. I'm thinking about taking Biochem, neuro, physio, and biostat this fall and 3 courses in spring to fullfill my credits for sponsorship.

 

[Maxprime]

Recommendations to take 2 classes comes down from the department as well as students in the program based on the amount of work each class takes, YMMV.

 

[Moki]

just wondering why 3 courses at HES is so highly not recommended. I took 3 science courses + 2 electives in college for the past 4 years. I'm not working or volunteering during my time at Harvard so wouldn't I have enough time to read up and do my studying for each class. I'm thinking about taking Biochem, neuro, physio, and biostat this fall and 3 courses in spring to fullfill my credits for sponsorship.

Perhaps, the advice regarding two courses is primarily directed at the basic requirements (Chem, O Chem, Physics, and Bio), since they consist of mandatory lecture, lab, and a discussion section. In my experience, it is often the basic foundation courses that require additional time, while the upper level courses are far more manageable.

Make an honest assessment of your goals, your desired timeframe for the implementation of those goals, and your capabilities. Trust yourself - no one knows your capabilities and foundation better. Others, including myself, will only be able to offer you advice based on our biased perspectives. Make sure that you take all advice with a grain of salt, since this forum is anonymous and you have no way of knowing the background and life experiences from which others speak. Too much advice can have a paralyzing effect on dreams.

With that said, my suggestion would be to take a look at the syllabi (contact the prof as necessary), gauge the work load, realistically consider your discipline level and ability, and then make your own decision. Work hard and smart and you should be fine. View it as training for medical school, which will invariably make these courses look refreshingly easy.

Trust your instinct.

 

[Maxprime]

Perhaps, the advice regarding two courses is primarily directed at the basic requirements (Chem, O Chem, Physics, and Bio), since they consist of mandatory lecture, lab, and a discussion section. In my experience, it is often the basic foundation courses that require additional time, while the upper level courses are far more manageable.

I agree 100%. Just read the books of your core classes and start doing problems - the pre-req core classes @ HES (bio, phys, chem, ochem) are a LOT of work. This is coming from someone with a high threshold for doing work - trust me, they are a lot of work. I routinely took 18-21 hours in college at a Tier 1 school and am afraid to take more than 3 classes @ HES from the workload.

Plus, you can always "take it easy" one semester with a normal load and get a feel for things. The only problem is missing the fall section of a class that's 2-part (all the core classes).

Make sure that you take all advice with a grain of salt, since this forum is anonymous and you have no way of knowing the background and life experiences from which others speak. Too much advice can have a paralyzing effect on dreams.

Agreed - no on knows you but you. Personally, I have been advised not to take 3 classes, but am doing so b/c I think I know myself better. Do what you think you should do after assessing other opinions (and BS).

With that said, my suggestion would be to take a look at the syllabi (contact the prof as necessary), gauge the work load, realistically consider your discipline level and ability, and then make your own decision. Work hard and smart and you should be fine. View it as training for medical school, which will invariably make these courses look refreshingly easy.

Trust your instinct.

Exactly my suggestion (and what I've done). Syllabi are online (PM if you need addresses or look in this thread). Buy the book (you can return it) for each class and see just how much work they are. Personally, I found chem & physics to be low-work classes for me b/c I've had them in the past (no labs though, re-take - sweet) so I think I may be alright w/ 3 classes. I then looked into bio and got freaked out - this class is going to be HARD and a lot of work, so I knew that 3 was a stretch for me.

Work your @ss off and only good things will happen - just make sure you're not overloading yourself. Personally, I am expecting about 20 hours per class per week. So, normally there's 60 hours gone from your week (12 hours a day!). This is for a solid A w/ no questions and a mastering of the material.

Also remember your final goal - to kill the MCAT and get into school. If you take 2 classes, but spend a lot more time on that material - it may take a little longer, but it may save you A YEAR of applications if you can slay the MCAT.