Forum Members Official: Job Offer Thread

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Diabetes rate is real high there....maybe that is where the diabetes related podiatrist demand is that the profession keeps promising


Pay me like an instagram model and I’ll fly right over there

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Per their website, Kaiser Oakland full time annual salary for podiatrist is $198-203k. I guess that’s better than PP but living in NorCal on that salary with loans etc 😫
I hope this is for their non-op positions. The surgical pods should be paid much more than that.
At the time when I interviewed the job offers were 280k with pension and full benefits plus a housing stipend/loan that's forgiven after x number of years staying with Kaiser for NorCal surgical positions. SoCal started 40-50k lower compared to NorCal. We are talking about pre-pandemic years.
Of course I won't be surprised if they lowered that due to our extreme saturation.
 
Pay me like an instagram model and I’ll fly right over there

If it wasn’t so hot or far away I’d live in Dubai and shave off all of the oil barons calluses. Super clean, almost no crime, you don’t have to pretend that boys are girls, there’s lots of money to throw around, no need to learn another language. But I still think the majority of jobs/hospitals are for real doctors and they aren’t necessarily recruiting any meaningful number of US podiatrists to the UAE…
 
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If it wasn’t so hot or far away I’d live in Dubai and shave off all of the oil barons calluses. Super clean, almost no crime, you don’t have to pretend that boys are girls, there’s lots of money to throw around, no need to learn another language. But I still think the majority of jobs/hospitals are for real doctors and they aren’t necessarily recruiting any meaningful number of US podiatrists to the UAE…
At one point Cleveland Clinic had an opening (and it was open for some time)!
 
Getting back to the states

Mobile podiatry with PSLF and benefits……almost as good as a PA job

Podiatrist- Traveling (PSLF Potential)​

NWCARE INC
Salem, OR

Full-time

  • 401(k)
  • 401(k) matching
  • AD&D insurance
  • Dental insurance
  • Disability insurance
  • Employee assistance program
  • Flexible spending account
  • Health insurance
  • Life insurance
  • Loan forgiveness
  • Mileage reimbursement
  • Paid time off
  • Vision insurance

NWCare is seeking a full-time Podiatrist who thrives in a detailed oriented, professional environment and has the ability to provide exceptional service to our patients.

NWCare provides quality on-site medical care services to residents of nursing homes and long-term care facilities. We offer Podiatry, Dentistry, Optometry, Mental Health, Audiology, and Physical Therapy services. Our entire team is reliable, professional, caring, and kind. Our doctors always keep the patients’ wellbeing as their top priority with a focus on excellence in care.

NWCare's culture is built on a foundation of teamwork and entrepreneurial drive. While each staff member has clear responsibilities in fulfilling our mission, we promote, expect, and reward a small business culture and work ethic where no task is above or below any individual.
We respect our Providers and offer an excellent work life balance, generous benefits with bonus structure and Zero On-call coverage requirement.
Department:
Podiatry
FLSA Status:
Exempt
 
Getting back to the states

Mobile podiatry with PSLF and benefits……almost as good as a PA job

Podiatrist- Traveling (PSLF Potential)​

NWCARE INC
Salem, OR

Full-time

  • 401(k)
  • 401(k) matching
  • AD&D insurance
  • Dental insurance
  • Disability insurance
  • Employee assistance program
  • Flexible spending account
  • Health insurance
  • Life insurance
  • Loan forgiveness
  • Mileage reimbursement
  • Paid time off
  • Vision insurance

NWCare is seeking a full-time Podiatrist who thrives in a detailed oriented, professional environment and has the ability to provide exceptional service to our patients.

NWCare provides quality on-site medical care services to residents of nursing homes and long-term care facilities. We offer Podiatry, Dentistry, Optometry, Mental Health, Audiology, and Physical Therapy services. Our entire team is reliable, professional, caring, and kind. Our doctors always keep the patients’ wellbeing as their top priority with a focus on excellence in care.

NWCare's culture is built on a foundation of teamwork and entrepreneurial drive. While each staff member has clear responsibilities in fulfilling our mission, we promote, expect, and reward a small business culture and work ethic where no task is above or below any individual.
We respect our Providers and offer an excellent work life balance, generous benefits with bonus structure and Zero On-call coverage requirement.
Department:
Podiatry
FLSA Status:
Exempt

I see they are looking for a detail oriented podiometrist. As a quintuple board certified total toenail replacement surgeon, I am extremely detail oriented and make sure to always maintain my dremel speed within a 50 rpm range, also known as a pRVU (podiatric RVU).
 
Company was started by a podiatrist a couple years ago after residency. Owner has an interesting background.

Nice mobile Dremels to bring with you to the assisted living facilities. What RPM can those babies do?

11 years to do this…..colleges are waiting for you to help meet the unmet demand.


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IMG_0957.jpeg
 
Company was started by a podiatrist a couple years ago after residency. Owner has an interesting background.

Nice mobile Dremels to bring with you to the assisted living facilities. What RPM can those babies do?

11 years to do this…..colleges are waiting for you to help meet the unmet demand.


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A non profit nursing home company is smart... you can do the pslf thing as part of your recruitment efforts like this company. That said its still a hard sell.
 
11 years to do this…..colleges are waiting for you to help meet the unmet demand.
In and of itself, work is work so who cares. The problem is if you take this job it will become your life. You can easily scale down from heavy surgery to clinic work or from clinic work to nursing home, but it's difficult to go in the opposite direction. If nursing homes are where you start, nursing homes are where you will always be.
 
In and of itself, work is work so who cares. The problem is if you take this job it will become your life. You can easily scale down from heavy surgery to clinic work or from clinic work to nursing home, but it's difficult to go in the opposite direction. If nursing homes are where you start, nursing homes are where you will always be.
Agree to an extent

It is often backbreaking work that does not pay well unless you have very lucrative "protocols" or are the owner.

The owner and protocols part often applies to PP as well.

The profession does not market to prospective students that this is where most of the jobs are that are not competitive. I guess the shadow requirement part theoretically covered it. The training is excessive for this.
 
Some new IHS jobs at Crow nation in Montana and Pine Ridge in SD....you want to get some trauma and limb salvage there you go....
 
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Some new IHS jobs at Crow nation in Montana and Pine Ridge in SD....you want to get some trauma and limb salvage there you go....
Be careful thinking every IHS site is going to be surgically heavy. My friend got stuck at one in ND for 3 years and he operated maybe 20 times?
 
Sounds amazing to me

It does. Unfortunately the pay that comes with these IHS jobs is far from “amazing.”

Of course, it’s much better pay than a vast majority of podiatry associates get. But in the world of “employed” organizational jobs it’s the worst. Well, at least now that the VA has been increasing DPM compensation.
 
After @Feli 's absolutely epic post about past trends in residency training vis-a-vis job market trends, it's clear these are the kinds of postings we are going to see more frequently. As older 1980s era DPM grads retire, the need will be for people who can replace their skillset which is mainly for routine trimming of toenails. The pitiless hand of the marketplace will decide who among us is consigned to that hell.
This is no joke, lol.

We, as a profession, basically replace 300 C&C docs who retire annually (barely any heavy surgical ones retiring) with 500+ "foot and ankle surgeon" docs right now (and maybe 50-100 new C&C or wound wizard docs who got forced into 3yr residency).

The nursing home nail care agencies and supergroups paying DPMs (or midlevels... or 'STARs') to be doing nails and calluses are the ways to get rich. That's true need. That is the demand. Imagine having a nail care place + nursing home and house calls van company with 4 or 5 nail techs, two NP, and two DPMs (for the ingrown proc, injects, etc). That is a cash machine. That is the lower malpractice for non-op and predictable work.

We, as a professin, have the bone/joint surgery covered... 10x over and soon enough it'll be covered 100x over. My residency director used to always say, "if you just want to make money, quit now, take your 1 year certificate, and go do nursing homes" in response to residents looking for jobs or complaining about pay or talking about codes that pay.

...We will almost get to the point even Justin Fleming or Thomas Roukis or Ryan Rigby or whoever won't really stand out much for jobs due to sooo many applicants... and any job they take will have hospital HR dept or ortho office manager phones blown up with others wanting to do the job for less. They will probably survive and keep or find new surgery jobs based on network, but schools/residencies are putting out 600+ "3year surgical DPMs" (with few/no surgical ones retiring) annually to ortho F&A producing just ~70 per year. There is a massive surplus overall, and even the decent PP podiatry surgery jobs are drying up.

I honestly think that's why a lot of really well-trained DPM guys like Cottom or McAlister or DiNucci or others who could have hospital jobs choose do PP instead... it's just more resistant to saturation if you can lock in the referrals now with maybe 5k-10k surgical DPMs around and before we get to 20k+ surgical DPMs. Well, that and they just make more $ in PP. Ortho group employ with partnership is also fairly insulated (but rare for DPMs). With some ownership, there is just less chance of admin and hospital politic issues or pay freeze/cut later once the saturation gets worse. After the jobs all get filled, it always seems the weird niche practices and marketing and the lower pay follows next. We shall see.
 
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It does. Unfortunately the pay that comes with these IHS jobs is far from “amazing.”

Of course, it’s much better pay than a vast majority of podiatry associates get. But in the world of “employed” organizational jobs it’s the worst. Well, at least now that the VA has been increasing DPM compensation.
IHS jobs pay parity (VA) if govt IHS, should be near that if tribal. There is additional loan forgive if you do 2yr or more obligation IHS.
They (and VA) are among the worst in terms of pay among employ / hospital jobs. For sure... that's why MDs usually don't touch them.

IHS is cool in that you actually have a good amount of female and peds pts (not so in VA).
IHS is not cool in terms of desolate locations, bad roads, bad schools, reverse racism, corruption, etc.
Clinic has many DM pts, many disabled/unemployed/substance... just like VA.
Collective laziness is expected (like VA), understaffing is common (ditto), hiring is molasses (yup).
OR time and staffing and capability can be hit-or-miss in IHS, so ask and learn (VA are generally ORs present but just slooow). If the IHS has ortho and gen surg or OB etc, that's a good sign. Some IHS jobs are non-op.
The IHS MDs will occasionally be talented and just paying loans, many will be locum, most will be low level... failed boards, would have trouble getting typical jobs or have checkered past, etc (just like VA).

...The big strength of IHS doc jobs [ financially ] is that there is NOoOoOoTHING to spend your $ on out in those ultra-LCOL areas. The VAs will be opposite: many in HCOL or at least avg cost areas. The IHS job pay in tandem with $500 or $750/mo house rent in walk distance to hospital can effectively be as good as other org podiatrist jobs in terms of net income after rent + bills. The hospital housing is always very cheap (but some places have dilapidated housing), or the nearby cities (if there are any close enough for call radius who will rent to non-native ppl) are not expensive. If anyone takes a job for IHS, be smart, invest and don't screw it up by online shopping or speculation investments or some dumb mistakes that negate the LCOL factor.

They are desolate areas, you are making a sacrifice, and most reservations include only tiny towns (the kind with 1 or 2 gas stations, 2 or 3 restaurants, and one basic grocery store) and the hospitals are far from even small cities (5k, 10k, 25k) where you'd go to go shopping at a chain superstore or go "for fun." Okla reservations/hospitals are the occasional exception (some of the bigger cities are" reservation" also).

The IHS jobs are ok places to get numbers, pay off loans.
In the current job market, they are significantly better than avg grad will do. I'd look into them if new grad and single*** or have an outdoorsy and self-starter partner willing to rough it for a few years. Again, use the low COL and decent pay wisely - or you kinda defeat the purpose if you just buy a new Mercedes.
Like most hospitals and jobs in general, they were steadily cutting the 401 match and changing vesting timeline and raising cost and/or lowering quality of bennies when I left IHS, but it's still pretty good in terms of DPM gigs. We are saturated and just don't have anywhere near the options or demand and pay that MDs do.

***If you have a partner, they will likely NOT be happy there in the IHS middle of nowhere for very long. You can only hike deserted trails and marvel at wildflowers so much, and it gets old side stepping drunks or packs of 8 rez dogs at the gas station. 🙂
 
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Okla reservations/hospitals are the occasional exception (some of the bigger cities are" reservation" also).

The Cherokee have done alright for themselves. The PNW tribes also have IHS clinics in some rural but not prototypical AZ/NM rez land, that wouldn’t be awful from a relocation and living standpoint. But overall, most of them are pretty rough. And the ones that you can routinely get locums/permanent work, are generally the ones that nobody wants to stay at largely for the problems with the location that Feli alluded to
 
Spoke with a coresident today who got offerred 60K job with no benefits, in a metro in the midwest. Bonus of this job is they aren't expected to work more than 35 hours a week so they could probably do something on the side to maybe push it up to 100k. The attending hiring them isn't part of our residency but is at another residency program in our state.
 
Spoke with a coresident today who got offerred 60K job with no benefits, in a metro in the midwest. Bonus of this job is they aren't expected to work more than 35 hours a week so they could probably do something on the side to maybe push it up to 100k. The attending hiring them isn't part of our residency but is at another residency program in our state.

That’s actually pretty decent. Aside from the 60k sign on bonus, do you know what they’re offering as a base salary?
 
That resident did get another job offer that he didn't even consider because of location, it's much more rural but was at 75k with no benefits, only 8 hours a day with no call.
 
That resident did get another job offer that he didn't even consider because of location, it's much more rural but was at 75k with no benefits, only 8 hours a day with no call.

Even an 8 hour job with no call should be 100-120 min
 
Even an 8 hour job with no call should be 100-120 min

The market doesn't believe so. These jobs can be had for 80k which based off looking at it, is extremely fair right now considering plenty are going below that. I had one job I was applying for and they asked what my prospective salary was, I felt I didn't want to push it too far up or too far down so I stuck with 100k which kind of sucks because I have to uproot my entire life for a 100k salary.
 
I feel like I wouldn’t even know what to say if they asked for expected salary because the market says one thing but I wouldn’t be able to ask for just $100k salary but asking for my true salary would result in a bunch of laughs in my face
 
I feel like I wouldn’t even know what to say if they asked for expected salary because the market says one thing but I wouldn’t be able to ask for just $100k salary but asking for my true salary would result in a bunch of laughs in my face

If the place expects you to take hospital call the minimum I would accept is 150. It’s not worth ruining your days away from work for anything less
 
I feel like I wouldn’t even know what to say if they asked for expected salary because the market says one thing but I wouldn’t be able to ask for just $100k salary but asking for my true salary would result in a bunch of laughs in my face
That is pretty much rule #1 in negotiating anything: let the other party name a price first.

That is hilarious if DPM postings are now trying to get candidates to underbid one another. I never saw that on any job search... employers would put up a decent base number (and sometimes bonus % also) to attract apps, and you could both negotiate from there.

The correct answer, in a f2f convo after seeing the office and mutual interest, is to say you think you'd generate 500k-700k or more collections and ancillary services, so $200k-250k is about right.

...If they are trying to make you spit out a number on the phone, that's one to just move on from. They are obviously not very interested in quality - on the cheapest possible associates.
 
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I feel like I wouldn’t even know what to say if they asked for expected salary because the market says one thing but I wouldn’t be able to ask for just $100k salary but asking for my true salary would result in a bunch of laughs in my face
I would ask them how many patients they'll schedule you with per week and figure some formula off of that that is respectful to all parties involved.

Example: [# of patients/week] x [average collections per pt] x [some %]

That way you're not just picking a number out of the air and it's founded in an understanding that they're providing work, you're doing it, and everyone's making money together. OK obviously people don't get along that harmoniously in the real world but isn't it nice to at least make believe?
 
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That resident did get another job offer that he didn't even consider because of location, it's much more rural but was at 75k with no benefits, only 8 hours a day with no call.
Every time you post one of these terrible offers, it makes me feel pretty lucky I got the job I did last year.
 
If the place expects you to take hospital call the minimum I would accept is 150. It’s not worth ruining your days away from work for anything less

I agree. You have to be firm about not accepting less pay than a mid level provider or bucees manager. Therefore, after the mustache DPM is finished hysterically laughing at your counteroffer and giving an emphatic response of hell no, I would recommend looking at options for collecting unemployment instead - this makes much more sense to me. Thank you.
 
We will soon have podiatrists on medicaid themselves seeing medicaid patients. The podiatry circle of life continues.
We joke, but many DPMs already do collect social services - or have their spouse/family collect - during residency.

...I think the associate pay - and most other practice settings - drop as it becomes clear DPMs are abundant. The compensation will stay juuuust viable enough for DPMs to tread water (esp when you consider the loan repay IBR plans with minimum payments ). Income will be rough... not much left to live and little or no benefits at most PP jobs (think chiro... pharma and OD have low pay also due to saturation, but at least they get benefits at most of their gigs).

...Increased podiatrist competition from the saturation will be what we see mainly. There will be even more apps for hospital/MSG jobs, DPMs undercutting one another for pay on those gigs... and even more apps and calls for what were low-interest PP jobs a decade ago. Sure, lower pay will happen also, but it can only go so low - although that level is unfortunately below what PAs and even most RNs rake in. Job posts clearly attest to that.

As we continue to manufacture tons of "surgical podistrists" to replace the very few of those who retire, it'll mostly be DPM on every corner, more advertising, increasing amounts going to nursing homes or house calls (replace the C&C retiree DPMs), more quirky services and offerings, more social media attempts, etc (basically, think chiropractors). Direct mail, billboard, TV, whatever... you will see it if you haven't already (even if you're not in a metro that's had that stuff for a long time). You already see the cheesy tactics in a good amount of places, mainly pod school cities and other big cities. All of the "same day appointments" and "we pay your copay" (illegal, insurance violation) and "free initial consult" and "50% off insoles" and other stuff you see DPMs trying in the dog-eat-dog metros will soon be going on in many more places also. 🙁
 
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Just saw a job offer for a podiatrist, not a MA, a podiatrist, 20-28$ an hour. If you work 52 weeks a year thats still under 55k. Amazing
 
Just saw a job offer for a podiatrist, not a MA, a podiatrist, 20-28$ an hour. If you work 52 weeks a year thats still under 55k. Amazing
Nah those things are just errors in posting.
 
increasing amounts going to nursing homes or house calls (replace the C&C retiree DPMs)
so there's a question for the labor market, do you:
a) take a 5-figure salary offer
b) work for a company like healthdrive for potentially more money than (a) at the price of letting your clinical/surgical skills atrophy with who knows what long term impact on your career
c) decide that as long as option (b) is on the table to start your own mobile podiatry business for negligible capital investment and learn the business/billing/coding side of podiatry on your own.

Option C is interesting because you could have a really lean operation and build up the capital to open an office in 1-2 years. Maybe sublet an office 1-2 days/week after 1 year, get hospital privileges and ride the pus bus to get back into surgery, then who knows where the future leads. Best part is you're mobile. Until you open a physical site, you can learn what communities are less saturated than others, learn who's close to retirement, be strategic about where you open up, basically look before you leap.

Admittedly I would have never done the above, but I never heard of offers that low when I graduated residency 6 years ago
 
Spoke with a coresident today who got offerred 60K job with no benefits, in a metro in the midwest. Bonus of this job is they aren't expected to work more than 35 hours a week so they could probably do something on the side to maybe push it up to 100k. The attending hiring them isn't part of our residency but is at another residency program in our state.
That resident did get another job offer that he didn't even consider because of location, it's much more rural but was at 75k with no benefits, only 8 hours a day with no call.

Two horrible job offers but picking the lesser of the 2 evils then I will pick the 60K for 35 hours a week (2-3 working days) could be a hidden gem.

No non-compete because they obviously expect you to find another job to bring you up to $100k+. Good opportunity to open your practice 5 blocks away and work at your own practice 2-3 days a week. Rent space from a PCP for 2 or 3 days a week and build your patient volume from there.

Dentist routinely do this. They work for a busy corp office 4 days a week and work out if their own new office 2 days a week and slowly fade away from the corp office as they build more patient volume.

It's a tough out there for new grads.
 
Two horrible job offers but picking the lesser of the 2 evils then I will pick the 60K for 35 hours a week (2-3 working days) could be a hidden gem.

No non-compete because they obviously expect you to find another job to bring you up to $100k+. Good opportunity to open your practice 5 blocks away and work at your own practice 2-3 days a week. Rent space from a PCP for 2 or 3 days a week and build your patient volume from there.

Dentist routinely do this. They work for a busy corp office 4 days a week and work out if their own new office 2 days a week and slowly fade away from the corp office as they build more patient volume.

It's a tough out there for new grads.
This is a good plan, but most 99% of pod jobs would instantly fire a DPM working for them who had started a nearby office (that their employee owns or intends to own/operate). They might have to let the DPM work for an additional DPM gig or mobile company or MSG or whatever if they can't offer full-time work. Some might even let the DPM do and bill own house calls (if main office doesn't do that), but if they find out the DPM has - or is planning to - opening up solo nearby doing same/similar services, they'd can that person so fast the DPM would be spinning like a top. They'd likely be slapped with a non-solicitation suit or a breach of contract also (if they were full-time or had the typical clause with any other podiatry work proceeds go to the main employer). Podiatry's too saturated. They just won't allow - and absolutely won't help fund - the building of a competition machine.

In nearly any situation I've seen, it has to be flip-switch (full time for employ job, owner knows nothing... set up PP, then suddenly quit and open up). Tale as old as time.

Just because there might not be a non-compete in the state/area doesn't mean there isn't non-solicitation... or that they can't fire an employed doc for starting a competing plan. One should fully expect that.

...A lot of things that we see viable in MD world (good pay, many job options, starting your own PP while working for a group) or things that happen often in DDS world (can get big bank loans to start PP, not taking any call, part-time work is viable) just don't materialize for DPMs. There are too many other associates available and too few patients to apply the semi-cooperative logic of MDs/DOs to us. That's a shame.
 
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I went onto medicaid in pod school. It was great. Students shouldn’t have to pay out the ass for a school sponsored BCBS plan when they’re in the prime of their health.
That is literally the entire basis for our health system.

Here's a fun story. My family plan for health insurance is $18K a year (I pay $12K of it). Not touching anesthesia or the OB.

We had a very boring c-section + 2 day stay. The hospital charged us $60K (this hospital was founded by nuns, I wonder what they'd think of that). United reduced it to $10K and paid $8K of it. We paid the other $2K and had already paid the $3K deductible for a 15 minute emergency room visit. I have a healthy insane child so "eh", but I'm always blown away that we had a hospitalization and surgery and United still made money on us that year.
 
That is literally the entire basis for our health system.

Here's a fun story. My family plan for health insurance is $18K a year (I pay $12K of it). Not touching anesthesia or the OB.

We had a very boring c-section + 2 day stay. The hospital charged us $60K (this hospital was founded by nuns, I wonder what they'd think of that). United reduced it to $10K and paid $8K of it. We paid the other $2K and had already paid the $3K deductible for a 15 minute emergency room visit. I have a healthy insane child so "eh", but I'm always blown away that we had a hospitalization and surgery and United still made money on us that year.
Yep, the entire system is garbage. And good luck changing it with insurance lobbies digging in deep and insurance companies brainwashing average Americans into thinking we somehow have a superior health system compared to universal systems. While simultaneously bankrupting families.
 
Yep, the entire system is garbage. And good luck changing it with insurance lobbies digging in deep and insurance companies brainwashing average Americans into thinking we somehow have a superior health system compared to universal systems. While simultaneously bankrupting families.
Only way out for PP is direct pay or hybrid model. I don't possibly see how one could have a successful private practice relying solely on insurance payments for revenue 5 years from now. Hell, even today every successful private practice I've seen essentially has a hybrid model where they take insurance but a large part of the revenue is from upselling on the non-covered services/lotions and potions.
 
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