****Official Verbal Reasoning Help Thread****

[Re3iRtH]

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I was scoring consistent 9s from the EK 101 passages book.
I heard that EK verbal was "just as hard and maybe a little
harder" than the actual MCAT.

Well I ended up with 3 points lower on the MCAT.. which killed
my chances of applying with this test.

I have noticed that the passages are very easy to read and understand
with EK, the questions do require you to think. Do you guys suggest
practicing with kaplan verbal... I've been trying to find kaplan verbal
material but havent had any success.

Any help is appretiated!

 

[Chemgirl27]

Hey,
I'm using the EK method now an after completeing my third exam today with a third 8, I'm getting a little fustrated. Approximately how many exams did you take before you saw the jump from 6-8 to an 11? Thanks

 

[H and D]

I completed all of the EK Verbal In Class Exams and got 7-8 (the last one I think I got a 6), took EK full length 1g (got a 7). I took the first 101 passage exam and I got a 8.
At this point I was extremely frustrated and worried. Then I began reviewing the question stems and answer choices from my previous exams. The second 101 test I took I got a 10, I took the third 101 test yesterday and scored an 11 (I was actually only 1 question away from a 12).
They are correct when they say you need to develop a feel for what the right answer will "sound" and "feel" like, not what a science major wants to hear I know.
I am not sure if I will get these same types of scores on the AAMC practice tests but I am encouraged. I am going to take 5r this weekend so I will see how it goes.
Improvement is possible I promise (and believe me two weeks ago I was contemplating not going to the August MCAT).

 

[Shejeboshease]

I completed all of the EK Verbal In Class Exams and got 7-8 (the last one I think I got a 6), took EK full length 1g (got a 7). I took the first 101 passage exam and I got a 8.
At this point I was extremely frustrated and worried. Then I began reviewing the question stems and answer choices from my previous exams. The second 101 test I took I got a 10, I took the third 101 test yesterday and scored an 11 (I was actually only 1 question away from a 12).
They are correct when they say you need to develop a feel for what the right answer will "sound" and "feel" like, not what a science major wants to hear I know.
I am not sure if I will get these same types of scores on the AAMC practice tests but I am encouraged. I am going to take 5r this weekend so I will see how it goes.
Improvement is possible I promise (and believe me two weeks ago I was contemplating not going to the August MCAT).

this is very optimistic. i wonder if physics or bio part might work the same way

 

[riDer]

i used PR and have been getting 5s and 6s actually got a 6 inthe aug2005 after taking PR.

now i am using EK method and after 6 tests i am getting 10s and actually finishing on time unlike PR who tell their students not to do one passage.

 

[H and D]

this is very optimistic. i wonder if physics or bio part might work the same way

I certainly hope so since I have beec scoring in thr 8-9 range on my practice tests in those sections. I am aiming for 10-11 on each section (I am sure like everyone else). I think taking 5r this weekend will be a good indicator of how I am doing and what I may get come 8/19.

 

[odependent]

From what i have heard from people who took both, they said that EK seems easier because their passages are more interesting. However, EK does lack abstract passages. Kaplans passages dont resemble AAMC because they are designed to follow their strategy which is more of a retrieval than a reasoning strategy. I would say EK will better reflect your mark, vs. kaplan.

 

[CanadianPre-Med]

My August 2005 Score: 33Q (13PS-7VR-13BS-Q)
My Practice Score Range: 35-40

I was really upset. I am re-writing this August '06. I'm not sure what went wrong with VR, as I found it much easier than AAMC's practice test and EK's. I was hitting 9s and 10s on those, in VR. A 7 on the real thing? What gives?

This time around, I'm getting 8-10 on EK VR. It's worrisome!

 

[odependent]

I'm in the same position as you guys but I know what went wrong. My 10 question passage showed up on passage 7 and threw off my timing in a serious way. EK kinda hurt me in that respect but now I'm practicing with verbal sections that have a passage with 10 questions and am locating it/completing it earlier in the sequence of passages.

What passages are you using that have 10 questoins?

 

[ADeadLois]

What passages are you using that have 10 questoins?

AAMC 7-9 each have 2 10 question passages. There were 2 10 question passages on my actual MCAT

 

[Chemgirl27]

I'm in the same position as you guys but I know what went wrong. My 10 question passage showed up on passage 7 and threw off my timing in a serious way. EK kinda hurt me in that respect but now I'm practicing with verbal sections that have a passage with 10 questions and am locating it/completing it earlier in the sequence of passages.

Yeah, I was definitely in the same position as you guys for verbal in april. I was working with the EK Verbal, and I got a score lower on the actual exam than on any of my practice exams. This time around, I'm going to actually use the EK method since I didn't use it before and I'm hoping to see results.
I'm also interested to know what verbal sections you are looking at that have 10 passages each. I'm also gonna stick with redoing the EK verbals because I really do think it's a matter of getting the main idea and spending the most time answering the questions.
I think Kaplan verbal will help in the respect that the passages are more dry and more like the real MCAT. But I think in terms of seeing for score improvement, the AAMC exams are the best indicators.

 

[ADeadLois]

Thanks QofQuimica for consolidating the VR help threads.

Hopefully, this will make it easier for anyone seeking help to find some good advice 👍

 

[shantster]

Hey,
I'm using the EK method now an after completeing my third exam today with a third 8, I'm getting a little fustrated. Approximately how many exams did you take before you saw the jump from 6-8 to an 11? Thanks

I saw more of a stablizing at a 9 (my diag, free from Kaplan at school, was an 8) until I got the test back at a 12.

I did start to feel more confident while taking the test though, but the score didn't increase.

 

[ADeadLois]

I completed all of the EK Verbal In Class Exams and got 7-8 (the last one I think I got a 6), took EK full length 1g (got a 7). I took the first 101 passage exam and I got a 8.
At this point I was extremely frustrated and worried. Then I began reviewing the question stems and answer choices from my previous exams. The second 101 test I took I got a 10, I took the third 101 test yesterday and scored an 11 (I was actually only 1 question away from a 12).
They are correct when they say you need to develop a feel for what the right answer will "sound" and "feel" like, not what a science major wants to hear I know.
I am not sure if I will get these same types of scores on the AAMC practice tests but I am encouraged. I am going to take 5r this weekend so I will see how it goes.
Improvement is possible I promise (and believe me two weeks ago I was contemplating not going to the August MCAT).

My progress was very similar to yours. At first I was spending way too much time analyzing the passage, yet was missing a lot of good information in the questions themselves. I started to reproportion my test-taking time to focus more on the questions. I saw definite improvement in my scores, and I was able to finish all of the passages in time.

 

[mcatmania]

im currently doing the ek 101 and i always narrow it down to two choices and and i ALWAYS seem to pick the wrong one grrrrrr 😡 is there something wrong with me?? or is there a way to decide between two answer choices??? 😕

 

[Natatiap]

I'm sorry I saw this post somewhere else a while ago but I couldn't find again but for those who improved on verbal what technique worked best for you?? I am constantly getting 6's and 7's on verbal and nothing seems to be improving. I am doing practice but I need major improvement before the test.

 

[newbie1kenobi]

I'm sorry I saw this post somewhere else a while ago but I couldn't find again but for those who improved on verbal what technique worked best for you?? I am constantly getting 6's and 7's on verbal and nothing seems to be improving. I am doing practice but I need major improvement before the test.

Try annotating.

Don't use personal opinion and personal knowledge to answer the questions.
Base your answers on the passage. Oftentimes the mistake is to reason out the answer instead of trying to figure out what the passage is implying. There seems to be this tendency when you have some knowledge of the subject.

I found the Kaplan MCAT reviewer (that big, thick book that's worth about $65) helpful for the verbal reasoning section. Got me from a 6 to a 10.

 

[tik-tik-clock]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=297705
there ya go..

 

[RisingSun]

I've been using EK for verbal. So far: 7, 9, 9, 9, 10, 9. The first test was the only one where I finished on time. For the last three tests I have been choosing a passage that looks particularly tough and just choosing C for all 7 questions. That gives me more time to focus on the rest of the test. I need to mull over questions to get at what is being asked, and this takes time but I usually get it right. My verbal for Kaplan 3 was 8 or 9 I think.

I think that I will do this on the real thing. I'll make sure to do the two 10 question passages and then focus on the others minus whichever one seems like it might give me the most trouble. I'll try this technique with AAMC 7-9 and see how it works.

Any suggestions, comments, ideas?

 

[goheat!]

I have been trying to follow the EK strategy of going back to verbal passages (essentially, the VR sections of the AAMC tests) that I have done under timed conditions to try to answer the questions by analyzing the question stems and answer choices. I have noticed that despite my analysis and construction of the main idea based on the question stems and answer choices, when I am going over passages I have already done, I tend to remember my answers from when I took it the first time, and thus feel that this strategy is not very helpful. Do/ did you guys feel the same way?

 

[xylem29]

My progress was very similar to yours. At first I was spending way too much time analyzing the passage, yet was missing a lot of good information in the questions themselves. I started to reproportion my test-taking time to focus more on the questions. I saw definite improvement in my scores, and I was able to finish all of the passages in time.

Hey, could you guys elaborate a bit on the question stems part? B/c I'm trying to do that too but I don't know what to look for, I mean - it's quite clear that when you look over all the questions and what they ask - the main idea of the passage becomes clear right? ...what about when you're actually taking the test and you give urself 8.5 mins to do the passage, isn't it a bit difficult to analyze the questions? what's that "feel" you guys are talking about?

 

[ADeadLois]

Hey, could you guys elaborate a bit on the question stems part? B/c I'm trying to do that too but I don't know what to look for, I mean - it's quite clear that when you look over all the questions and what they ask - the main idea of the passage becomes clear right? ...what about when you're actually taking the test and you give urself 8.5 mins to do the passage, isn't it a bit difficult to analyze the questions? what's that "feel" you guys are talking about?

It's a two-part process. First, it's taking a few seconds to determine what the question is asking. This might sound obvious, but often reading the question too quickly can cause to miss key words. Even though a question might sound like a detail queston, upon second glance it really is not see below) Second, it's looking over the answer choices to see which choices you can (1) eliminate based on your knowledge of the passage, and (2) eliminate based on the language of the qusestion.

A common example is a question "Based on the author's assertion on line 47 "Quote from passage", what would he/she think about blah blah blah"

At first glance, this sounds like a detail question, and most people will go back and re-read the paragraph line 47. However, all the question is asking is to make an inference based on the quote given in the knowledge. Typically, this detail relates in some way to the main idea or at least one of the main points of the passage.

Then, there will often be answer choices you can eliminate based on your knowledge of the main idea. Also, since the question is asking you for the author's opinion, then you can eliminate any answer choices that are irrefutable facts (these are often the ones with complicated language that sound "right" or are direct quotes from the passage). Often, getting it down to two is the best you can do...go with your gut.

 

[da_donut]

What do you guys do after finishing an EK verbal test from the 101 passages book.

Do you go back to your mistakes and read why your choice was wrong in the answer explanations?

or do you go back and just analyze the question stems alone?

or do you just try to answer the ones you got wrong again?

I guess what have you found helps after doing one of the exams and scoring yourself so that you can improve the next time round

Thanks!

 

[xylem29]

It's a two-part process. First, it's taking a few seconds to determine what the question is asking. This might sound obvious, but often reading the question too quickly can cause to miss key words. Even though a question might sound like a detail queston, upon second glance it really is not see below) Second, it's looking over the answer choices to see which choices you can (1) eliminate based on your knowledge of the passage, and (2) eliminate based on the language of the qusestion.

A common example is a question "Based on the author's assertion on line 47 "Quote from passage", what would he/she think about blah blah blah"

At first glance, this sounds like a detail question, and most people will go back and re-read the paragraph line 47. However, all the question is asking is to make an inference based on the quote given in the knowledge. Typically, this detail relates in some way to the main idea or at least one of the main points of the passage.

Then, there will often be answer choices you can eliminate based on your knowledge of the main idea. Also, since the question is asking you for the author's opinion, then you can eliminate any answer choices that are irrefutable facts (these are often the ones with complicated language that sound "right" or are direct quotes from the passage). Often, getting it down to two is the best you can do...go with your gut.

Ah, ok, that makes sense, if it's an opinion, then it certainly can't be a fact...and when you say a direct quote, are you talking about something the author has written or something he/she quoted in the passage? Because what happens if the direct quote is an opinion of the author?

 

[ADeadLois]

Ah, ok, that makes sense, if it's an opinion, then it certainly can't be a fact...and when you say a direct quote, are you talking about something the author has written or something he/she quoted in the passage? Because what happens if the direct quote is an opinion of the author?

Well, I was talking about the hypothetical example of a direct quote that's actually a fact. However, I've found that if an answer choice is verbatim from the passage, it's usually wrong.

 

[BXP]

I usually get through 8 passages, and if I'm especially attentive, and the passages are more interesting than usual, I can get through all 9.

But how in the world are you people finishing EARLY? Some with even 30 minutes to spare?! Please enlighten me on your insane speed reading abilities!!

 

[LifetimeDoc]

There is no need to speed read! I repeat, there is no need to speed read!

Read at a normal pace, though be on the quick side, just not slow. Read for comprehension.

Spend time on the questions, realizing that you don't always need to read the passage to answer them. There is a wealth of information in the question stems and answers.

Stop going back (aka referring back to the passage) to find the answer to a question. I repeat, stop going back to the passage to search, find, discover the answer to a question. Many times, you won't find the answer in the passage at all, or at least the question isn't about some detail in the passage that you can easily find.

Going back to the passage multiple times is probably the biggest time waster there is in verbal. If you cannot finish the exam with a few minutes to spare, stop going back to the passage completely! The next biggest time waster is spending too much time on a very difficult question. If you are stuck on a question, make an educated guess and learn to move on.

 

[H and D]

I usually finish the verbal section with 25-30 minutes to spare. I should peface that with the fact that I have always been a fast reader. However I believe the main reason why I am finishing early is that I rarely go back to the passage. I have become a firm believer in EK's methods and I only go back to the passage for detail questions. If I am stumped on the question I use the question stems and answer choices and not the passage. This technique has improved my score from the 7-8 range to the 11-12 range.

 

[CavalierMD]

I agree that going back to the passage takes a lot of time, but for me, reading carefully enough so that I don't have to go back takes even longer. I'm a big fan of Kaplan's "passage mapping"... or at least, an adapted version that worked for me. Read paragraph by paragraph. Then in the margins jot down how the paragraph fits in the bigger scheme of the argument: "author's view" "critics view" "example" "evidence" etc. That way, when the question stem says... "what would critics of the author say..." you have narrowed your search to a specific paragraph. It's a good compromise. Good Luck!

 

[estairella]

On average, I've taken 65 minutes for the VR section. My score has stabilized around 11-12.

First of all, I agree that you should not speed-read. However, if you're subvocalizing (mouthing out the words as you read), don't do that either, because that slows down most people (most people can read faster than they can speak, so the speaking is like a limiter).

I don't do any mapping/outlining/circling (so I mostly follow EK). Frankly, having circles and random notes just distracts me from trying to learn what the author is wanting to say (the main argument).

I haven't followed EK in their study method for VR (looking at the answer stems only to answer a question), but that might help you in not looking back at the passage.

You shouldn't look back in the passage unless you see direct quotes in the answer stems. Usually, a direct quote in the question (like... "From the statement of "bla bla bla", it can be inferred that") is inference, so going back isn't that useful either. Going back is only useful for those "what does the author mean by X word" questions.

Also, try timing yourself by every 3 passages. There's always 1 or 2 questions where the answer seems so ambiguous (or there seem to be two correct answers); frankly, chances are you will get them wrong, and it's better to maximize your score by having attempted all questions instead of guessing on an entire passage.

 

[BXP]

Oh man you guys have been so helpful, thank you SO much!!! 👍

 

[Noeljan]

personally
i think people seem to waste too much time on finding "techniques" The only way I see to do it is read the whole passage and answer the questions.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

i tend to read the questions for the passage first (no answers) and then read the passage, keeping in mind the questions i read. I got an 11 in verbal, so it worked well for me. but i don;t know if it will help anyone else, or if this is good or bad, as i did not take a review course.

 

[mikedaspawn]

I'm really at a loss as to what approach I should take with verbal.
With my kaplan diagnostic and first full length I scored 4,5 respectively due to me being inherently a slow reader. Trying to boost my pace I just start getting questions wrong. Is there any smart approach that you guys would advise in the event that I only finish 6/9 passages if I read them through thoroughly? People seem fond of the EK strategy, but it just seems that I dont have the time to sit and read every passage. The kaplan mapping approach usually gets me reading the whole passage anyway/otherwise I just dont comprehend the heck the point of the passage is. I have the 101passage book, I just need to practice a method that can bump me up. Is there any efficient way can wrack up those points?

thanks 🙁

 

[estairella]

Let's say timing is your only issue, and you are actually getting 90% consistently. 0.9 x 6/9 x 60 = 36. That translates to a scaled score of about 7, which is the best you can hope for (maybe +5 from guessing on the rest).

Now a consistent 90% is probably going to be quite hard to achieve (unless you have it already). So if you say "well I'll only do 6 passages", you've limited yourself to a maximum score of 7, but a likely score of 5 or 6.

Also, it sounds like you have an issue with comprehension and taking too long on the questions, not reading speed issues. Try a complete VR section, don't map, and don't do any questions. I bet you find you will have lots of time left. You can't just say "well reading all 9 is too much and I don't understand enough, so I'll just do things at my own pace", that's the whole point of practicing to make your performance improve.

To sum up: the smartest approach is doing all the passages; if you can still only do 6/9 by test day, you need to make sure you'll be satisfied with a 6 or 7.

 

[ADeadLois]

A lot of verbal questions today. Though I'd bump this.

 

[MahSpoon]

The point is that you don't have to read them thoroughly. The best you can hope for is getting the main idea of the essay and having a basic idea of where the details are in case you need to go back to address a question. If you aren't already trying, read a few of the questions first to get an idea of what the passage will be upon. You don't need to be looking to answer any specific questions. You should figure things out like "ok this is going to be about astonomy....something about measuring distance of stars, different techniques." That will be good enough to get your brain ready as opposed to reading the first two paragraphs and have no clue what the final point will be.

 

[mikedaspawn]

The point is that you don't have to read them thoroughly. The best you can hope for is getting the main idea of the essay and having a basic idea of where the details are in case you need to go back to address a question. If you aren't already trying, read a few of the questions first to get an idea of what the passage will be upon. You don't need to be looking to answer any specific questions. You should figure things out like "ok this is going to be about astonomy....something about measuring distance of stars, different techniques." That will be good enough to get your brain ready as opposed to reading the first two paragraphs and have no clue what the final point will be.

I'm totally unstatisfied with anything under 9. I realize my limitations, so 9-10 on verbal would be ideal...if I can atleast get to an 8 I wont be too distraught. I understand that an 8 is not particularly competitive..but I can work with it (relying on the sciences to pull me up/ reasonably high GPA/ strong resume including research), rather than a friggen 5... I have about a month before judgement day and I'm going to try to work on verbal + try to up my sciences more untill then. I'm open to any suggestions you guys may have. Again thanks for the help.

MahSpoon, Thanks for the post, I'll give that a shot today.

 

[abadri421]

No im not paralyzed. I am writing in regards to verbal passages. Many of you have said that your are doing good by having a "feel" for the right answers..I know the whole deal with softeners and avoiding extreme answer choices, but those are rare. Most of the time I narrow it down to two answer choices and then pick the wrong one...I have dont about 4-5 EK practice tests and scored 8's on all of them..

How do u get a "feel" for the right answers? 😕

 

[lastbastion]

I think a large part of that "feel" is innate. However, I do feel that anyone can score a 10 on the verbal section. Practice reading verbal passages, and even very lenghty supplemental material. A lot of verbal misques occur because of a lack of focus, which a lot of us have in our generation of "Now!". We want everything now, quick results, and when we have to focus a little longer, our minds drift away. So work on that.

And although I said a large part of it is innate, there are ways to hone your "feel". Skip the passages altogether, and focus just on the questions and answer choices. Don't over analyze here. Just based on the question alone, do any answer choices seem incorrect? Worded too weird? Does one not fit in with the others? Do they even touch on the question at all? Treat them like a criminal line up. Then, when you go back and read the passages and then answer the questions, see if you were correct. Most of the time, after sufficient practice, you will be.

 

[Div_MD2B]

hey abadri421--
i don't have an answer to ur concern but i have to admit, i am in the same boat as you. i have done 3 EK tests so far and have gotten 8s on them...i don't know how to or what to fix. also, i have noticed that there's usually 5-6 more questions that i could have gotten right...but just ended up picking the wrong answer choice out of the two that were left after eliminating the wrong ones. my "feel" for one of the choices usually turns out wrong...i dunno...i just hope we can improve on the "feel" with more practice as the test comes closer...
anyways, good luck to ya! also, any more advice from others would be greatly appreciated!🙂

 

[Instatewaiter]

Abad: the 'feeling' you are talking about will come with more practice. Verbal is hard to improve b/c unlike PS or BS you can't just learn more info to improve the score. The best way to improve is to take more tests and make sure to go over each answer after you have scored the test. It should take you as much time to review why you got each one right or wrong as it did to take the test. Your score will only improve if you go over the anwers.

When you understand why you get each answer right or wrong you will find that feeling people are talking about. This is a standardized test and therefore it has weaknesses that you can exploit if you understand what kind of logic you should be using. PM me if you guys have specific questions on how to improve your score. I am a teacher for a test prep course.

 

[MDavoodi_Co]

No im not paralyzed. I am writing in regards to verbal passages. Many of you have said that your are doing good by having a "feel" for the right answers..I know the whole deal with softeners and avoiding extreme answer choices, but those are rare. Most of the time I narrow it down to two answer choices and then pick the wrong one...I have dont about 4-5 EK practice tests and scored 8's on all of them..

How do u get a "feel" for the right answers? 😕

NEVER, EVER, EVER answer a question (ANY TEST QUESTION) because you "feel" like it's right, ....ever. ITS A GOOD THING YOU DON'T FEEL ANYTHING LOL!

 

[ADeadLois]

NEVER, EVER, EVER answer a question (ANY TEST QUESTION) because you "feel" like it's right, ....ever. ITS A GOOD THING YOU DON'T FEEL ANYTHING LOL!

Since there is no emperical method of answering a VR question, you have to really on intuition.

 

[BXP]

It took me a couple of tests to get used to the kinds of new question types thhat were given since previously I had only done Princeton Review verbal passages.

However, while I always found truth in the reasonings behind Princeton Review answer explanations, I find EK 101 to have numerous absolutely ridiculous reasonings for choosing one answer while another answer is very obviously fully supported.

Anyone else have this experience too? Wish the verbal weren't such a rollercoaster (score wise, and emotions too hahaha)

 

[trobin28]

I too am finding a tremendous amount of ambiguity in the Ek verbal, but perhaps this is what makes them so effective? Don't know, I haven;t tried any practice tests yet besides the EK 30 min exams, which I found the answers to be very very subtle.

 

[MedChic]

It took me a couple of tests to get used to the kinds of new question types thhat were given since previously I had only done Princeton Review verbal passages.

However, while I always found truth in the reasonings behind Princeton Review answer explanations, I find EK 101 to have numerous absolutely ridiculous reasonings for choosing one answer while another answer is very obviously fully supported.

Anyone else have this experience too? Wish the verbal weren't such a rollercoaster (score wise, and emotions too hahaha)

I agree with you.
I read over the explanation and I still find a valid argument in my answer choice. There are probably very subtle/vague shifts in tone on the real Verbal, so maybe this is what EK is trying to get us used to.

 

[ADeadLois]

I agree, some of the answer explanations are debatable. They're likely trying to get you a feel for the ambiguity of the answer choices.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

thats the beauty of EK 101, the subtle nuances you must pick up to get the best answer help to train you to do well on the actual verbal passages which are usually a slight bit easier since the answers tend to be less ambiguous. EK teaches you to figure out the precise tone of the passage which I think is essential to doing well on verbal.

 

[akinf]

I am not at the place I want to be yet (also I have never taken the MCAT) but I personally don't like or tend to go back to the passage. This works well for EK because you can do most questions w/o going to the passage, but for stuff like Kaplan, there are quite a few detail questions where going to the passage and finding the answer will get you the question right. I've been told the real MCAT is not like this also. But I can tell you that when I stopped going to the passage so often, I improved in EK, went down then begain improving in Kaplan, and started finishing about 10mins early in everything.

 

[mikedaspawn]

Guys, What do you think is better practice for Verbal...
I've tried the Kaplan verbal passages book and although doing crappy...I'm starting to get some flow, and I'm starting to pick up room for improvement.
Just today I tried the EK 101 passages full length and I simply got owned(scored way lower and I find myself lost in most of the passages)...It's way harder! passages are longer/denser questions are tougher. I'm hearing that EK and Kaplan get theyr stuff from the same distributors but it surely doesnt seem that way. Which should I work with?
I plan on moving on AAMCs after this..