Oh, Well How About THIS BS!!!!
Started by Narcotized
.
Last edited:
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Honestly, I've seroiusly started to think that guns, ammo, property, cattle and 2 yr. supply of rice, can foods, etc..... Isn't that crazy after all.
PGG et al... has got me thinking lately.
PGG et al... has got me thinking lately.
There is a new series on TV.... documents individuals who do exactly this...
Pretty interesting.
Pretty interesting.
I would like to see education about living within our means that started at the top with a president who would cancel the usual inauguration ball that costs millions and teach us that unnecessary spending needs to stop. Then let congress follow suit. Limits for spending on advertisements during elections and other items that would show America that out of control spending is a bad idea. Start a better verification for any welfare programs. Trust but verify that people who say they need help really need it. Let people who are capable go out and earn something for themselves. Many people are unemployed because they will not do jobs they feel are beneath them. If I was unemployed for several months, I would take any job I could get whether its bussing tables or flipping burgers. We have generations of americans who have seen their families live off of welfare and that is all they know. We need to break that cycle.
If this was all in place, I would not feel as bad giving as much of my salary to taxes because I would feel better that they were being used wisely.
I would cut benefits for elected leaders such as perpetual salary and benefits. Once they have served their time, go back to the workforce. There are so many ways to cut govt spending, but it will never be done because it has to be voted on by those who would be affected most by it. Sadly, it will probably never happen.
If this was all in place, I would not feel as bad giving as much of my salary to taxes because I would feel better that they were being used wisely.
I would cut benefits for elected leaders such as perpetual salary and benefits. Once they have served their time, go back to the workforce. There are so many ways to cut govt spending, but it will never be done because it has to be voted on by those who would be affected most by it. Sadly, it will probably never happen.
What show is that? I saw some doomsday survivor show on the National Geographic channel that was honestly kind of silly. Of the four profiles they had, one of them was a pair of South Carolina families who were concerned about inflation or hyperinflation so they bought some rural farm property and were trying to live a more self-sustainable life. They seemed like the only rational people on the show, but of course not everybody can or should move out to the sticks and live a pseudo-19th-century homesteader lifestyle.
There were some suburban Phoenix hippies who turned their swimming pool into a fish pond, and a guy who thought Memphis was going to get nuked so he built a bomb shelter out in the hills. I can't remember the 4th segment. Not exactly the kind of 'sane' profiles that would encourage ordinary people to do reasonable, small things to better prepare themselves for common or likely catastrophes. Like job loss, major natural disasters, and our inevitable standard of living recalibration (I don't like the term "collapse").
Unfortunately ratings are what get things televised, and no one's going to watch a boring "live within your means and don't buy **** you don't need with money you don't have" TV show. But maybe those TV shows are coming.
Raaaa-men.
Personally I'm just hoping relieved investors will rush their money back to the stock market, putting a hit on commodity and PM prices. I'd like to buy more of that shiny stuff.
That's the one. I found it entertaining for sure... the best part was the hippie family from phoenix (solar flare catastrophe) and their home made grass slurpie
or how the father was timing the family on how quick they could put on their nuke suits 
I did like the ex-military dude joining forces with the engineer. That wood burning truck was pretty cool.
Yeah... mostly over the top.... but who knows, if you have the funds, might not be a bad idea to have a plan B... whatever that may be. 🙂
.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Gradually, over a period of a few years, not abruptly while squealing about a manufactured debt ceiling deadline.
Aggressive efforts to get off oil. What's really killing the United States, even more than deficit spending, is our trade deficit. Close to a trillion dollars per year of US wealth is being exported to the rest of the world. Most of that is oil, which we import at astoundingly high expense and then burn. (Not to mention the foreign policy and military costs associated with keeping the oil coming.)
Large cuts to social security. Sucks, because no one wants to see old people hungry or homeless. But maybe old people will need to move out of the retirement communities and shack up with their adult children. Kinda like the way human society worked for 1000s of years prior to the invention of retirement communities. Painful.
Large cuts to Medicare. Sucks, but healthcare costs are unsustainable and out of control. Maybe healthcare isn't a fundamental human right after all? Not good for our profession's paychecks either. Painful.
Military cuts.
Higher taxes. We ran up the credit card. The national debt is money we've already spent, payments need to be made. Maybe a VAT - but some good and bad economic forces accompany a federal sales tax.
Modest currency devaluation / inflation. Really just the ultimate regressive tax. Proof that neither party cares about the poor, else there would be some acknowledgement of inflation. The national debt is too big to pay off in real terms, so it must be devalued too.
The problem is not unsolvable. If you take a step back and look at the planet from a distance, the United States is still in an enviable position. We produce all our own food. We have huge fossil fuel deposits (coal and NG), the ability to build new nuclear power plants, and lots of land and varied geography for renewable energy options. We're a free, democratic, pluralistic, capitalist society (leeches notwithstanding). We have nuclear weapons; therefore no real fear of invasion and conquest. We have the technology to build anything we need.
A cynic might even say we're playing the game correctly, by trading worthless paper and promises for useful foreign goods and materials. So what if it's a Ponzi scheme if we're the ones running the scam and swindling China and OPEC? Replace oil with something domestic ... and what exactly do we need the rest of the planet for? (I don't really agree with that interpretation of events.)
That's the one. I found it entertaining for sure... the best part was the hippie family from phoenix (solar flare catastrophe) and their home made grass slurpie
Right ... and their plan if they needed the nuke suits was to walk out of Phoenix with backpacks and their dog on a leash. I hear it gets kinda warm in that sandy, cacti-filled wasteland.
Honestly, I've got to wonder how much of that was really their plan, and how much was staged by Nat Geo to make the show more sensational.
And now - if they ever actually need any of that stuff, now their neighbors know where to go.
Of all the people on the show, they seemed to have the tightest grip on reality. They're already living their plan for bad times, and they didn't seem to have sacrificed any happiness doing so.
The truck was cool.
I'm all about plan B, but my swimming pool is for swimming and there's no fallout shelter on my todo list. 🙂
PGG,
I definitely agree with a lot of what you have written here. 👍👍
Not coincidentally, most of what you write ends up with the term PAINFUL. And I think that's the only way to "fix" things. But, like the smoker who would rather face the dangers in 30 years as opposed to tomorrow, fixing something, thus, taking the PAIN now (and moving in the inlaws, seems highly doubtful). And that's frustrating. Because, like you say, we really NEED A FIX, not a bandaid.
I also think, forgive me if I missed it, DECREASED IMPORTS and RAMPING UP of domestic products is where I think our dollars should be going. Flip over 9.9/10 of the products in your house, and I dare you if they don't say, "Made in China." That sort of dependency, like what Brazil went through with the US, is REALLY bad. It might float you for a while, but then BOOM, reality hits. Let's keep our dollars in the US, might be PAINFUL for a bit, but I think it would be better for my kids' kids in the long run. Agree? Disagree?
D712
.
Last edited:
.
Last edited:
Narc,
I think you give dependency theory short shrift when you label it as "protectionism". It's a well known and accepted theory of international relations and economics. If we take the US and name it the periphery, where it was once the wealthy country, and label China as the developing reapers of our lack of recent industrialization and education, where the US once sat, it states we have a problem. A big problem.
I'll add some short papers for reading when I look em up if you ask for em.
D712
I think you give dependency theory short shrift when you label it as "protectionism". It's a well known and accepted theory of international relations and economics. If we take the US and name it the periphery, where it was once the wealthy country, and label China as the developing reapers of our lack of recent industrialization and education, where the US once sat, it states we have a problem. A big problem.
I'll add some short papers for reading when I look em up if you ask for em.
D712
Indeed. How this basic concept is lost on so many people is just mind boggling (not you pgg, but folks in general).
EVERY single nation which once WAS an economic leader got there from exporting high value products to the rest of the world. The industrial revolution started in the UK, NOT Germany. But, the British "Empire" squandered away their real wealth and got into the empire building and finance business.
The Germans and Japanese GOT wealthy with manufacturing and they are STAYING (relatively, not saying they are perfect) wealthy as a result. The Koreans? I don't see them coveting "service industry" jobs in order to put themselves on the map. No. They are targeting high value manufacturing. China? Well, they're pretty much making it all. And the high end stuff is coming very soon.
The deindustrialization of the U.S. and the demoralized manufacturing sector (as %'s of the overall economy) is one of the most egregious aspects to our decline. And, credible people have been sounding this alarm for a LONG time.
Stop the wars. Phase out entitlements. Eliminate mortgage interest deduction. Eliminate pensions for gov employees (make them have 401 like everyone else). Make senators and reps ineligible for reappointment if there is a deficit. End free trade agreement.
It's not rocket science.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I absolutely agree ... I mostly disagree ... I absolutely agree.
But hey, Time Magazine says The US Is Not Drowning In Debt because the dollar amount doesn't matter, it's just what we have to pay in interest to service the debt. So I guess everything's cool.
Brilliant!!
Why would you pay for something if it is rightfully yours?
Same reason we gotta pay for dental care.
How much longer can interest rates stay close to 0%? I don't know if they'll be low for 5 more months or 5 more years, but I bet we don't pay off a substantial portion of the debt before they go back up.
Either the Fed won't fire up QE3+ and rates will rise to attract bond buyers, or they will start QE3+ and rates will stay low while the dollar gets further debased.
No more QE = interest rates have to rise eventually, else nobody will buy our bonds to fund our deficit spending. Interest rates are a rapidly compounding problem when you owe $14 trillion. At just 3% that's $420 billion/year in interest; reasonable rates in line with historical averages start pushing $1 trillion/year in interest. Two year Greek bonds were commanding 25% rates last time I looked.
Endless QE = Time Magazine would be right, the debt wouldn't matter. Because the dollar would be worthless. That's not exactly a good outcome either.
Is there a third possibility I'm missing?
It's probably going to be both. We're going to dick around with QE and inflation as long as we can 'get away with it' and then we're going to default the old fashioned way.
(And don't look now, but the world's cheap oil is gone too.)
It's my right to have guns, but nobody is just giving me free guns. Well, short of Uncle Sam but he expects me to use them when he hands them out.
That's the one. I found it entertaining for sure... the best part was the hippie family from phoenix (solar flare catastrophe) and their home made grass slurpie
I did like the ex-military dude joining forces with the engineer. That wood burning truck was pretty cool.
Yeah... mostly over the top.... but who knows, if you have the funds, might not be a bad idea to have a plan B... whatever that may be. 🙂
I wanna descend on that Carolina clan with an automatic sux gun, just to see that guy defasiculate without any anesthesia. Would keep the engineer as a useful hostage. As for the phoenix lady, I'd like to try an ECT on her, just with the pads, no anesthesia--maybe that will tailor her brain to operate a little on the sane side. With regards to the underground guy out in Utah, I think I'll just drop a smoke bomb in his underground bunker and then steal his food supply
. And that crazy chickens/miniature goats fella.... Well, he lives near a bunch'a of mehicanos! No chance gringo, no chance! .
Last edited:
Time to move. Choices...
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
.
Last edited:
.
Last edited:
Media such as that represent the voice of the establishment. I think the importance for people to understand this can't be overstated. They are clearly part of the problem, because they obviously are disseminating mis/disinformation with respect to the reality that even they can not be oblivious to. So, is their rhetoric purposeful? I think so.
.
Last edited:
Those who are against increasing taxes do not realize that the Bush tax cuts contributed to the deficit. Deficits are incurred by not just increased spending but also by reductions in revenue.
These senseless wars must end also. We have no idea how to bring stability to the countries that were are presently fighting in. The more that we fight extremists the more that we create them. We are going broke creating extremist.
Health care must be cut.
No one wants their special interests cut.
Cutting spending without increasing revenue is a mistake.
Cambie
The problem as always is that the people in control are making boatloads of money, so their only concern is staying power. They do what looks good to the general public or whoever it is that helped them achieve their position with no real goal of solving anything. There are ways to solve most of our economic problems, but they would upset a lot of people and no one has the balls to take those routes.
For the record, and only for the record because debating herein isn't my cup of tea, in replying to Narcotized, I want to be clear that I was not quoting television or newspaper writers discussing economic theory. CFdavid has a different point of view, and I understand it. It was just reading to me that my argument for dependency theory etc got tied into the media-establishment debate. For one, Paul Krugman isn't an economist behind dependency theory. Rather, the true economists and academics who proposed it decades ago are of the ilk that Narcotized would recognize and clearly reads (i.e. Hazlitt.) I would also go on the record and say that free market economics (i.e. Hazlitt) and keeping a purely government-hands-off approach to trade, doesn't preclude dependency from taking place. Paul Krugman has no part of my debate. Saying that "well known economic theory is mostly crap" and quoting Hazlitt text, to me, makes very little sense.
D712
.
Last edited:
.
Last edited:
.
Last edited:
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
When is gold gonna stop? 😱 1660$ an ounce
All hail the great leader! He offered HOPE and saved us from disaster again.
Not.
He had the opportunity to force change, guilt both sides into a meaningful start on a real solution. He blew it. "Put a real piece of legislation, a real start on fixing the problem, on my desk Monday morning or face the wrath of the American people'." Maybe he wouldn't get reelected, maybe he'd get a landslide victory for being a real leader and holding a lame congress to the fire. What a joke. He could have been hailed as a hero, if not next year, 5 years from now. A real legacy. Opportunity knocked and no one was home.
Not.
He had the opportunity to force change, guilt both sides into a meaningful start on a real solution. He blew it. "Put a real piece of legislation, a real start on fixing the problem, on my desk Monday morning or face the wrath of the American people'." Maybe he wouldn't get reelected, maybe he'd get a landslide victory for being a real leader and holding a lame congress to the fire. What a joke. He could have been hailed as a hero, if not next year, 5 years from now. A real legacy. Opportunity knocked and no one was home.
Well, let's not forget that Newsweek literally sold for $1 about a year ago:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/08/02/good-news-newsweek-sold-for-a-dollar/
My parents used to subscribe to it in the late 90s and at that point it was still a fairly decent (if greatly watered down) newsmagazine. A week ago I leafed through a copy at a local Borders (itself going bankrupt) and was mildly surprised to see that it had become 100% garbage with an ultraliberal bent.
I really wasn't using the fall back and respected argument, so much as lobbing dependency theory into the convo. accepted and respected by whom? academic and NGO economists i think? isn't that like taking some facts out of Miller, some accepted facts, and saying, "accepted by whom?" some theories are well entrenched in economic lore. i think dependency is one of them. nevertheless, i hear your argument.
D712
Sure, there are commentators whom do have those ideologies (Maddow). I'm speaking, more generally, to the point that most of those talking heads report to media executives. They know, intrinsically, the issues that are either off limits or that "require" a certain spin.
Also, the large media conglomerates are beneficiaries of the status quo. Hence an absolute lack of real investigative journalism that we suffer through in today's "news". Where's the challenge to the absurd official stance that we're in Libya for humanitarian reasons? How this administration can get away with that so very easily speaks volumes to the impotence of our media. We're in Libya for humanitarianism, but Darfur? Ah, that's just different I guess.
They don't rock the boat because they benefit from the current regime in the U.S. The status quo which is dessimating middle class Americans.
I didn't mean to be quoting Hazlitt at you. I meant to create a signature, but some reason my new computer is low tech in reproducing that signature.
.
Last edited:
And here's the cherry on top, Moody's has given a future negative warning on our US credit, and a Chinese equivalent has lowered our credit rating -- despite the agreement - because of the clear evidence that DC cannot work together.
Can you blame them?
Good job politicians, you really did us proud in 2011.
D712
Can you blame them?
Good job politicians, you really did us proud in 2011.
D712
D
deleted126335
Nothing will change till financial markets force change. Skyrocketing Gold won't do it. Only skyrocketing interest rates or really significant inflation will. Congress will print money until they can't.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
