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Wasn't there a whole thing not so long ago about not allowing/shutting down political threads on SDN?
OHSU EM Residency Friendliness/Malignancy???
- Thread starter drusso
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This really shouldn’t have gone down any kind of political road of discussion....racist statements are pretty clear cut, or at least should be.
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Exactly. Not sure why the left-wingers think a double standard is okay. Tolerance, diversity, and inclusion, unless someone disagrees with them......
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Setting aside the (obvious) racism and nonsense political crap in this thread, this place was probably one of the most lackluster programs on the trail. It only exists due to the west coast and "Portland" factor. I'm surprised they even see enough patients to maintain accreditation and their ED was smaller than a broom closet.
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As an aside, there's an SDN subculture has always leaned towards benefit of the doubt, even in a fair number of egregious cases. The one that immediately comes to mind was in this thread, which led Soughtern Surgeon (one of my all time favorite SDNers) to leave:
BoardEligibleEventually
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LOL. That creep was in my medical school class.
It's almost like if you employ people, you should be expected to meet the same standards as everyone else. It also seems like if you offer services to other people, you don't get to discriminate against them. I mean, in the 60s would you complain about the government crushing some poor lunch counter owner for refusing to serve black people?
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Maine and Nebraska distribute electoral votes via house districts with the 2 electors gained from the senators going to the state popular vote winner.
Besides that... got nothing.
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Off topic, but there are some neat and fairly persuasive articles out there suggesting that all of the states should go to a system similar to that.
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deleted480308
It’s none of the govts business what benefits an employer offers to adults, if they don’t want the terms they don’t have to work there
And if you only wanted to serve dinner to 4’7” eskimos you should be legally allowed to waste your money on your crappy business model and let the free market crush you, govt isn’t the answer to people not wanting to voluntarily associate
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It was more a freedom of expression issue. Should the baker be forced to make a Nazi cake? How about a pedophile cake?
Neither of those are protected classes and the baker does make wedding cakes so it's purchasing a product that he already makes. The bigger question is at what point does baking become art. Is simply putting script on a sheet cake "art"?
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he says he doesnt want to make the cake
I love gay people but for eff sake
If you tell me this guy isnt baking gay cakes I wont give him my business
The free market will root him out
Why dont these people go to muslim bakers, o ya crowder did that, wheres the outrage?
The person you replied to was talking about segregation; are you implying the free market would have ended segregation without government intervention?
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deleted109597
Yeah, can we bring this around to being back on topic. It's swung pretty wide from OHSU.
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I'm not white. I've got little skin (punz lolz) in this game. But what she said in that tweet is frankly, abhorrent.
I take care of patients all that time that are "exhausting". Never once does the color of their skin even factor in. Have white people historically had significant advantages bestowed upon them because of their skin color? Of course, nobody is denying that. But that in no shape or form is related to whether they are difficult to take care of. She is trying to make an association that simply doesn't exist because it gets a standing ovation from many of the card carrying social justice warriors on social media.
She should just do her job and take care of her patients without instilling all this crap "woke" commentary into our specialty and pandering on social media. I go to residency in the Rust Belt, with a large percentage of my attendings being strong Trump supporters. They do good work and they focus on taking care of patients, irrespective of how exhausting it is and how that correlates with their race.
I also stopped following Esther Choo on twitter A LONG time ago. You should too. Her posts are literally just every left talking point that are some variation of "I'm an ER doctor. I take care of gun violence patients, I see all the suffering" etc etc. There is literally no deeper or unbiased discussion of a more complex issue.
I take care of patients all that time that are "exhausting". Never once does the color of their skin even factor in. Have white people historically had significant advantages bestowed upon them because of their skin color? Of course, nobody is denying that. But that in no shape or form is related to whether they are difficult to take care of. She is trying to make an association that simply doesn't exist because it gets a standing ovation from many of the card carrying social justice warriors on social media.
She should just do her job and take care of her patients without instilling all this crap "woke" commentary into our specialty and pandering on social media. I go to residency in the Rust Belt, with a large percentage of my attendings being strong Trump supporters. They do good work and they focus on taking care of patients, irrespective of how exhausting it is and how that correlates with their race.
I also stopped following Esther Choo on twitter A LONG time ago. You should too. Her posts are literally just every left talking point that are some variation of "I'm an ER doctor. I take care of gun violence patients, I see all the suffering" etc etc. There is literally no deeper or unbiased discussion of a more complex issue.
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deleted480308
To bring it back around for docmcninja...
I think the free market handles things like this just fine. Jim crow was govt not letting all people eat in restaurants which was a law passed specifically because there were restaurants willing to let everyone in...the market can work
In the same manner, if the market was allowed to work in hospitals. No public ones and no certificate of need, there would be more options for hospitals and employees doing things that are bothersome publicly could be let go (and conversely if you really valued certain opinions you can have a hospital that selected for opinions and see if the patients drift that way too)
None of this requires govt to make the decision
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I've worked at OHSU and had the privilege of working with her. She's neither racist nor dumb. An opinion like that is not going to be popular and it will appear as a double standard, but when you're not only fighting against sexism in medicine (yes, it's rampant) but also against "the man" (which is the white man), then these comments will appear out of place, "dumb" and certainly not popular among the status quo. I'm sure there were plenty of "dumb" statements and movements that certainly weren't popular amongst the status quo during any civil rights movements, but here we are.. progressing.
And to answer your question, OHSU and the west coast is all about mental health and physician well-being, so definitely not malignant from my experience. At least trying to be.
And to answer your question, OHSU and the west coast is all about mental health and physician well-being, so definitely not malignant from my experience. At least trying to be.
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As leaders in the world and healthcare, "just putting your head down and doing your job" sounds terrible. You can be a grunt all you want and go home and carry on, but some physicians and people see themselves as more than that. Additionally, when politics and social issues affect your role as a physician leader how can you just take it and "put your head down and do your job?" What kind of job is that?
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Hook -
As you can tell from my post above, I am neither part of the reactionary "She's racist!" group or the apologist group.
So, as objectively as possible, what do you think the intent of her public comment was? You state that she is not racist and not unintelligent...and chances are you are correct.
But then, as an intelligent physician who actively researches topics related to her statement, she must be aware of how her post is going to be received. Why do you think, then, she made this post? What was her intent? How was she trying to be helpful to minorities?
HH
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Sounds like classifying a struggle against a group defined by skin color.
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I agree completely. Perhaps she’s exasperated. I’m not sure. And without the context it is a dumb statement. So definitely not the wisest of choices. But I don’t know what she’s experiencing. I won’t speak for her but I can try to explain her intentions which I don’t believe were of ill will.
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being racist is ok if you're "exasperated"?
There is no context, it was a stand-alone tweet that said white people are exhausting.
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Outrage all you want. Look into it more or don’t. I agree that we (me) white people can be exhausting and the response ironically shows it. When we make the rules it’s easy. I’m leaving this dumpster fire. Fare well.
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lol multiple people have disagreed and explicitly said they are not white
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OHSU also lists many midlevels alongside physicians as both "Clinical Associates" and as "Adjunct Assistant PROFESSORS" of Emergency Medicine.
www.ohsu.edu
HH
OHSU Emergency Medicine Faculty | OHSU
List of OHSU Emergency Medicine Faculty listed by rank
HH
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We could all probably benefit from lightening up a bit and being less quick to be triggered. On the other hand, it's probably not a bad idea to avoid making negative comments and social media posts about entire races, religions, creeds, genders, orientations and other groups, regardless of the target, or source. Nothing positive comes from it. Life's far too short to generate any more of this type of negative energy in the Universe and certainly far too short to be affected by it any more than that we have to.
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deleted859535
This right here. Same reason I avoid a lot of social media. Life's too short for bull****.
The martydorm of wealthy women living in America is possibly the hardest thing to see and not roll your eyes at.
For the billionth time. The “gender wage gap” in medicine is an absurd concept. There is no billing qualifier specifying male/female.
If you want to argue there are more men in overall higher positions, that’s probably reasonable.
The reason for this is well documented and exists in nearly every field:
1) Children and 2) a more likely attitude to place work over family, statistically, among men.
For the billionth time. The “gender wage gap” in medicine is an absurd concept. There is no billing qualifier specifying male/female.
If you want to argue there are more men in overall higher positions, that’s probably reasonable.
The reason for this is well documented and exists in nearly every field:
1) Children and 2) a more likely attitude to place work over family, statistically, among men.
Yes, what the group bills the payer doesn't depend on the physician's gender. But does that correlate 1:1 with the physician's earnings? I have a hard time believing everyone out there except me is working on a pure productivity-based model. Once there is a significant salary component in a contract, billing as the great equalizer goes out the window.
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I think you are both right, to some degree.
The thing is that jw3600's points (one and two) are just so rarely mentioned in these discussions and even less commonly found in the press.
Yes, most of the 'upper level' salaries and positions in medicine are held by men. This is historical artifact. (admittedly, partially based on sexism and exclusion of women in medicine)
Although not practical, it would be great to see a comparison of salaries between 'all women' and 'men who take paternity (and other family-first breaks)'. I suspect within the next ten years or so, these "groups" will equalize.
Expertise in our culture is not just disregarded these days, but there is also a failure to acknowledge the extreme sacrifice CEOs (or other top earners) make to obtain the top position. One - of either sex - can not have it all. There is no CEO who is able to spend 100 hours a week being a great parent. It's just not possible. Pick your celebrity physician or scientist. This 'doctor' has sacrificed in some non-professional context. I Promise.
Sexism exists. It's getting better, but it will be with us for a long time. But those of us who want to minimize it's effects would do us all well to also reject the putative ideal that "women" not just can -- but SHOULD -- be able to have it ALL: children, C-suite, svelte figure, and goddess-like status. This is just not impractical, it is downright anti-feminist.
HH
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