Okay to do DO for surgery?

[vandyam]

Okay, so I'm wanting to do a DO program, but I am concerned. First, I should start of by saying that I'm more competitive for DO program than MD, and I think my chances are better there. Secondly, I would like to do the DO program because my husband, who is quite a few years older than me, is going back to school to be a physician as well (peds), and it's obviously important that we stay together. I believe our best chances at both getting into the same university would be through a DO program, versus an MD program. Yes, I am aware that even those odds aren't the best, but he's doing his masters now and I apply a year before him, so if I get in somewhere, that is where we will go, regardless if he gets in or not. Lastly, it will offer me an advantage when it comes to getting into more competitive surgical residencies, b/c DO programs offer residencies that are meant just for DO applicants (MDs are not allowed to apply) and it therefore makes it less competitive. For me, I don't really care what my degree is (they are virtually the exact same thing), but I do care about losing surgical patients in lieu of other physicians simply because they have the words MD at the end of their name.

Does anyone think this will be a problem? It is truly looked at negatively if your degree is DO? Does it affect being able to work in certain hospitals, the level of respect you receive, or salary, etc? Thanks so much for any help anyone can offer.

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[JaggerPlate]

Okay, so I'm wanting to do a DO program, but I am concerned. First, I should start of by saying that I'm more competitive for DO program than MD, and I think my chances are better there. Secondly, I would like to do the DO program because my husband, who is quite a few years older than me, is going back to school to be a physician as well (peds), and it's obviously important that we stay together. I believe our best chances at both getting into the same university would be through a DO program, versus an MD program. Yes, I am aware that even those odds aren't the best, but he's doing his masters now and I apply a year before him, so if I get in somewhere, that is where we will go, regardless if he gets in or not. Lastly, it will offer me an advantage when it comes to getting into more competitive surgical residencies, b/c DO programs offer residencies that are meant just for DO applicants (MDs are not allowed to apply) and it therefore makes it less competitive. For me, I don't really care what my degree is (they are virtually the exact same thing), but I do care about losing surgical patients in lieu of other physicians simply because they have the words MD at the end of their name.

Does anyone think this will be a problem? It is truly looked at negatively if your degree is DO? Does it affect being able to work in certain hospitals, the level of respect you receive, or salary, etc? Thanks so much for any help anyone can offer.

1. No matter how great of an applicant you think you are, count on NOTHING in this application cycle. If you would have asked me a year ago, there were several schools I was positive I was extremely qualified for and others that I laughed at/assumed I had no shot. Today, I have been put on hold at two of those 'I'm very qualified for schools' and received numerous interviews from schools I thought would laugh and throw my application in the trash. AKA, don't count your chickens before they hatch. I'd personally find a region with numerous schools, and apply to all of them with hopes of getting into and attending the same one

2. You need to be more specific. Are you planning on going into private practice for surgery, working for a hospital, what?? I'm unsure how certain hospitals view AOA residencies. I've only heard one issue ever, and it was with an ER group that only wanted to take DOs that had completed an ACGME EM residency. If you are really concerned about this, you can always skip the DO match and only apply to MD residencies.

3. As far as salary, no. If you're hired at a hospital to be a G-Surgeon, you get paid just as much as the MD G-Surgeon (assuming they aren't head of the department or something else that would indicate a higher pay grade). Also, don't worry about 'respect.' Don't go into med for those reasons.

If I were you, I'd look at some hospitals in the area where you want to practice (private practice won't be a problem at all unless you are joining a picky group) and see if they have DO surgeons on staff. If they do, see where they did their residency. Or, you could get really technical and email/call the hospital and ask about their policies??? Good luck.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

1. No matter how great of an applicant you think you are, count on NOTHING in this application cycle. If you would have asked me a year ago, there were several schools I was positive I was extremely qualified for and others that I laughed at/assumed I had no shot. Today, I have been put on hold at two of those 'I'm very qualified for schools' and received numerous interviews from schools I thought would laugh and throw my application in the trash. AKA, don't count your chickens before they hatch. I'd personally find a region with numerous schools, and apply to all of them with hopes of getting into and attending the same one

2. You need to be more specific. Are you planning on going into private practice for surgery, working for a hospital, what?? I'm unsure how certain hospitals view AOA residencies. I've only heard one issue ever, and it was with an ER group that only wanted to take DOs that had completed an ACGME EM residency. If you are really concerned about this, you can always skip the DO match and only apply to MD residencies.

3. As far as salary, no. If you're hired at a hospital to be a G-Surgeon, you get paid just as much as the MD G-Surgeon (assuming they aren't head of the department or something else that would indicate a higher pay grade). Also, don't worry about 'respect.' Don't go into med for those reasons.

If I were you, I'd look at some hospitals in the area where you want to practice (private practice won't be a problem at all unless you are joining a picky group) and see if they have DO surgeons on staff. If they do, see where they did their residency. Or, you could get really technical and email/call the hospital and ask about their policies??? Good luck.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

I checked quite a few match lists, Surgery is very doable as a DO, but that is if you get into DO school. Osteopathic medical schools have become extremely selective. Schools like CCOM get 5000 applications for a little more than 150 seats.

 

[Pegasus1731]

Q: Okay to do DO for surgery?

A: yes. end of story.

 

[womp]

Does it affect being able to work in certain hospitals, the level of respect you receive, or salary, etc? Thanks so much for any help anyone can offer.

Some hospitals, although they take DOs, might require their surgeons to be trained at MD residency programs. If you do a DO residency for surgery instead, you are not eligible for board certification through the American Board of Surgery, ABTS, etc. You can't become a fellow of the American College of Surgeons (FACS), but there is a DO equivalent called American College of Osteopathic Surgeons, as well as DO board certifications. But this may all be a matter of semantics for you.

Another thing that you might consider is fellowships. If you do General Surgery, chances are you will want to do a fellowship. There are more surgical fellowship opportunities if you went through an ACGME (MD) residency. Furthermore ACGME fellowships will not certify anyone who did not complete an ACGME/Canadian residency. If went to a DO residency and you do an ACGME fellowship where there is no DO equivalent, you cannot be boarded for that subspecialty.

 

[ChiDO]

Some hospitals, although they take DOs, might require their surgeons to be trained at MD residency programs. If you do a DO residency for surgery instead, you are not eligible for board certification through the American Board of Surgery, ABTS, etc. You can't become a fellow of the American College of Surgeons (FACS), but there is a DO equivalent called American College of Osteopathic Surgeons, as well as DO board certifications. But this may all be a matter of semantics for you.

Another thing that you might consider is fellowships. If you do General Surgery, chances are you will want to do a fellowship. There are more surgical fellowship opportunities if you went through an ACGME (MD) residency. Furthermore ACGME fellowships will not certify anyone who did not complete an ACGME/Canadian residency. If went to a DO residency and you do an ACGME fellowship where there is no DO equivalent, you cannot be boarded for that subspecialty.

Sources?

You can join the FACS as a MD or DO student: Medical students in accredited medical schools in the United States, Canada, and international countries (allopathic and osteopathic) are eligible to apply for Medical Student Membership.

To be a FACS fellow:

1. Graduation from a medical school acceptable to the American College of Surgeons.
2. Completion of an accredited surgical residency in the United States or Canada.

All MD/DO schools are accepted and all MD/DO programs are accredited.

Thus, stop talking out of your ass.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Sources?

Seriously.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Some hospitals, although they take DOs, might require their surgeons to be trained at MD residency programs. If you do a DO residency for surgery instead, you are not eligible for board certification through the American Board of Surgery, ABTS, etc. You can't become a fellow of the American College of Surgeons (FACS), but there is a DO equivalent called American College of Osteopathic Surgeons, as well as DO board certifications. But this may all be a matter of semantics for you.

Another thing that you might consider is fellowships. If you do General Surgery, chances are you will want to do a fellowship. There are more surgical fellowship opportunities if you went through an ACGME (MD) residency. Furthermore ACGME fellowships will not certify anyone who did not complete an ACGME/Canadian residency. If went to a DO residency and you do an ACGME fellowship where there is no DO equivalent, you cannot be boarded for that subspecialty.

 

[Dissected]

You will NOT lose patients as a surgeon because you are a DO. It matters not whether you do an ACGME or AOA residency either.

Nobody is going to know the difference.

 

[womp]

Sources?

You can join the FACS as a MD or DO student: Medical students in accredited medical schools in the United States, Canada, and international countries (allopathic and osteopathic) are eligible to apply for Medical Student Membership.

To be a FACS fellow:

1. Graduation from a medical school acceptable to the American College of Surgeons.
2. Completion of an accredited surgical residency in the United States or Canada.

All MD/DO schools are accepted and all MD/DO programs are accredited.

Thus, stop talking out of your ass.

You guys (ChiDO, PunkMedGirl) need some serious reading comprehension skills. I didn't say all DOs can't be FACS. I did, however, say that DOs who did DO (AOA) surgical residencies cannot be FACS. As a DO, you can join FACS only if you did an MD (ACGME/Canadian/RCP) residency. The reason is that unless you did your training in Canada or the UK, you must be boarded by the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS), such as the American Board of Surgery (ABS), which are only available to ACGME residencies. If you went to a DO (AOA) residency, you would be boarded by the American Osteopathic Board of Surgery instead, which is part of Member Boards of the American Osteopathic Association.

Here's FACS membership requirements (http://www.facs.org/memberservices/2bfacs.html):
Certification by an American Surgical Specialty Board which is a member of the American Board of Medical Specialties and which is appropriate to the applicant's specialty practice, or an appropriate specialty certification by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada.

If you did a DO residency, you will be boarded by the Member Boards of the American Osteopathic Association, which is not part of the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS). Thus you can't be a fellow of the American College of Surgeons.

So stop being so damn knee-jerk defensive, and don't call others "asses" when you can't be bothered to read carefully or understand what others are trying to say.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

You guys (ChiDO, PunkMedGirl) need some serious reading comprehension skills. I didn't say all DOs can't be FACS. I did, however, say that DOs who did DO (AOA) surgical residencies cannot be FACS. As a DO, you can join FACS only if you did an MD (ACGME/Canadian) residency. The reason is that you must be boarded by the American Board of Medical Specialties, such as the American Board of Surgery (ABS), which are only available to ACGME residencies. If you went to an AOA residency, you would be boarded by the American Osteopathic Board of Surgery instead, which is part of Member Boards of the American Osteopathic Association.

Here's FACS membership requirements:
Certification by an American Surgical Specialty Board which is a member of the American Board of Medical Specialties and which is appropriate to the applicant's specialty practice, or an appropriate specialty certification by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada.
http://www.facs.org/memberservices/2bfacs.html

If you did a DO residency, you will be boarded by the Member Boards of the American Osteopathic Association, which is not part of the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS). Thus you can't be a fellow of the American College of Surgeons.

So stop being so damn knee-jerk defensive, and don't call others "asses" when you can't be bothered to read carefully or when you don't have a clue yourself.

I read what you said. I just wanted to say .

 

[womp]

I read what you said. I just wanted to say .

Reading and comprehending clearly are not the same thing.
You remind of the Medicare patients who scream "Get the government out of my Medicare" and then when told Medicare is a government program, reply back with "BS."

 

[Dissected]

From what is written on all of the websites, it looks like you have to do an ACGME residency to be a fellow of the american college of surgeons. Its a little confusing for my first year brain to wrap around, but it looks like DO's who do AOA residencies can be a member of FACOS, and DO's who do ACGME residencies can be FACS and/or FACOS (one of our faculty has both...he is my idol).

The ABMS only covers allopathic specialties. The AOA resides over osteopathic ones. Womp is correct.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Reading and comprehending clearly are not the same thing.
You remind of the Medicare patients who scream "Get the government out of my Medicare" and then when told Medicare is a government program, reply back with "BS."

Ok. If you say so.

 

[womp]

Getting back to the point, your patients wouldn't know the difference between FACS and FACOS, and your colleagues wouldn't really care. But if things like this matter to you (as it clearly mattered to some of you above ), then you should consider that and try your best to match into an ACGME residency. A more substantial thing to think about though is fellowship opportunities for the two residency paths. In that case, I think you would be better off doing an ACGME residency.

Anyway, good luck to the OP on your applications. You should definitely apply to both DO and MD, you might be pleasantly surprised by where you get accepted.