OMFS residency: accepting fresh grads vs. practicing military dentists?

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OlenCF

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Hi guys,

I have dig into this topic and found only a few threads mentioning it. So I thought I would start a post and hopefully I can pick all your smart brains a bit.

Essentially, I am close to the end of my military service obligation and I am interested in applying for civilian OMFS programs (6 yrs) all throughout North America. The reason I am not staying with the military for OMFS is because the school where selected candidate is sent to is a 4 yr program and candidate will not have the choice of advancing further into a fellowship of his/her interest. I am very interested in craniofacial, and therefore this will not rhyme well with the current job specification of OMFS in the military (I am a mbr of the Canadian Armed Forces).

That said, I have been told/have seen/have heard that programs usually would tend to pick fresh grads out of dental school because they are still very academically-oriented, easier to train, and would generally be younger and hence have less obligations.

But from my perspective, I would argue that being a military dentist, the work environment and job requirements are actually advantageous in preparing us for specialty training. Because we were trained and required to be effective military officer and dentist at the same time, so we are required to be effective leader, team player, and competent clinician. On top of that, being posted to different position means one gets to explore different aspects of dentistry: clinical, teaching, policy making, dentistry on the field, etc. So the various hats we have to wear sometimes would give us that flexibility and adaptability in any working environment. As to being away from academia for too long, I made sure my CBSE is decent enough to show the PDs that I haven't lost my touch yet (CBSE of 80).

Take me for example; I first worked three years in the clinic during which time I was given different taskings such as leading a dental team to provide dental care to bases in remote places, organizing various social events, and engaging in base and clinic duties; and now I am working in a training establishment overlooking and validating the proceeding of all dental courses coming through our training centre. So to me, I found my experience thus far rather sufficient in preparing me to be a specialist who not only is clinically competent, but also a team player and leader as well.

If I have to put my service into a context, I feel like this has been a long GPR where I need to see patients (both emergency and comprehensive), engage in teaching (even supervise/monitor others teach as my current job requires me to do), serve the underserved communities, taking emergency calls, and still need to participate in annual CE conferences.

Personally, I have colleagues who were in the service as well but applied at the end of his service to civilian OMFS and got in. So I know it's possible, but it could also be an one off.

So prior to actually dedicating my time in putting an application together, I just want to throw this question out there, and ask for all of your advices.

My stats are as follow:
Grad of 2012
GPA (not sure) but percentage wise I am at about 84% (so maybe close to 3.8?)
Research: I had a MSc. prior to my DMD, so I have a couple publications in biochemistry; several posters presentation (both at national and international conferences) and one talk given on a national conference. I was also selected in undergrad on an exchange program to Japan to do some research (very small project given the time) for an year.
Extracurricular: nothing official, but was on the battle of the band back in dental school for three years (fun times for sure!).
CBSE: 80 (first shot, and not gonna do a second 😛)
OMFS related training (selection all based on merits): two military OMFS clinical courses (both US and Canada), and one OM/OP course through the US Air Force. Other military clinical courses too but they are prostho and endo, so not quite relevant.

Any advices would be greatly appreciated!!

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I don't know about CF, but it seems like there are a good number of programs who like taking US military dentists at the end of their obligation.

there are also a bunch of fellowships that take 4-year guys.
 
I don't know about CF, but it seems like there are a good number of programs who like taking US military dentists at the end of their obligation.

there are also a bunch of fellowships that take 4-year guys.

Thank you vellnueve! I have seen so many of your helpful posts and replies on this forum, you are almost like a guiding light for ppl like me.

Would you care to elaborate which programs r more military friendly? I know for a fact UT Houston must be one because that's where we send our candidate to. But I have chatted with a few CF surgeons and while it is very trauma heavy, its case load on craniofacial is almost close to none (things could obviously have changed).

As for 4 vs 6 yrs, I just want to make sure I don't find myself with limited options at the end of my 4 yr residency, so might as well do it right the first time. I have been told by my classmates and ex-military colleagues who r currently in or have graduated from residency that 6yr is the way to go if fellowship is the goal. But out of curiosity, do you know any craniofacial fellowships that may be 4-yrs friendly? Because I do notice how a lot of 6 yr program don't take Canadian due to medical school admission restrictions.

Any insights are appreciated.
 
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Thank you vellnueve! I have seen so many of your helpful posts and replies on this forum, you are almost like a guiding light for ppl like me.

Would you care to elaborate which programs r more military friendly? I know for a fact UT Houston must be one because that's where we send our candidate to. But I have chatted with a few CF surgeons and while it is very trauma heavy, its case load on craniofacial is almost close to none (things could obviously have changed).

As for 4 vs 6 yrs, I just want to make sure I don't find myself with limited options at the end of my 4 yr residency, so might as well do it right the first time. I have been told by my classmates and ex-military colleagues who r currently in or have graduated from residency that 6yr is the way to go if fellowship is the goal. But out of curiosity, do you know any craniofacial fellowships that may be 4-yrs friendly? Because I do notice how a lot of 6 yr program don't take Canadian due to medical school admission restrictions.

Any insights are appreciated.

I think a 6 yr would be VERY tough w/ those scores. 6 yrs really look at CBSE scores and theres not much leeway there. And they do prefer fresh grads for those programs. I think a 4 yr would be better for you. You wont have options closed off either.
 
I think a 6 yr would be VERY tough w/ those scores. 6 yrs really look at CBSE scores and theres not much leeway there. And they do prefer fresh grads for those programs. I think a 4 yr would be better for you. You wont have options closed off either.

Thanks for your reply! I may be misinformed, but I was under the impression that a score of 80 in cbse and a decent gpa (looking at the conversion table, I was wrong in assuming my gpa to be close to 3.8, but it should be close to 3.9) should be set?
 
Thanks for your reply! I may be misinformed, but I was under the impression that a score of 80 in cbse and a decent gpa (looking at the conversion table, I was wrong in assuming my gpa to be close to 3.8, but it should be close to 3.9) should be set?

Yes a CBSE of 80 is a great score.

I think you're a very strong candidate.
 
I think a 6 yr would be VERY tough w/ those scores. 6 yrs really look at CBSE scores and theres not much leeway there. And they do prefer fresh grads for those programs. I think a 4 yr would be better for you. You wont have options closed off either.

I think this individual either had a typo or is an idiot. You are highly competitive for either a 4 or 6 yr with stats and background.
 
I think this individual either had a typo or is an idiot. You are highly competitive for either a 4 or 6 yr with stats and background.

I agree. An 80 will get you into pretty much any program, assuming you otherwise match what they're looking for. I couldn't tell you which programs will look kindly on mil applicants but I believe many of them will check that off as a positive factor.

I don't know much about Craniofacial programs but I know a few 4 years who did cancer/recon fellowships.
 
Thanks guys, these r much appreciated indeed. 6 yrs will be my first choice still!

I had a chance to call the admission coordinator from Vanderbilt, and was told that while I will not be discriminated against, she has not recalled anyone being accepted that has not gone straight from dental school or done a GPR/internship... However, she did mention she will redirect this question to the PD, and I shall update further when I have some news.
 
Although I strongly disagree with your generalization of new grads (everyone is different) and how military dentists are better suited for OMFS, don't worry about the new grads . Your numbers are fine. Are you Canadian? If so, your Canadian citizenship might be more of a barrier to some medical schools more so than your application and credentials.
 
Although I strongly disagree with your generalization of new grads (everyone is different) and how military dentists are better suited for OMFS, don't worry about the new grads . Your numbers are fine. Are you Canadian? If so, your Canadian citizenship might be more of a barrier to some medical schools more so than your application and credentials.

I suspect that the med school will be the biggest barrier as well. I'd apply to some 4-year programs.

Did you attend the OMFS course at NPDS Bethesda? I've probably crossed paths with you at some point...
 
Although I strongly disagree with your generalization of new grads (everyone is different) and how military dentists are better suited for OMFS, don't worry about the new grads . Your numbers are fine. Are you Canadian? If so, your Canadian citizenship might be more of a barrier to some medical schools more so than your application and credentials.

Opinions can differ, and that's fine 🙂
And yes, I'm Canadian... And I have come to realize there're only a few (~15+ ) 6 yr programs that I can apply. So I was wondering if I should look into some solid 4 yr programs as well like Carle and Washington Health. But while we agree that some fellowship programs may still consider 4 yr guys, it appears to me that at least Craniofacial fellowships r quite keen on choosing the 6 yr guys. This could possibly be a result of just the shear number of CF fellowships out there as opposed to that of microvasc fellowships.
But I am no spring chicken for sure, so I really need to make sure I make the right choice prior to committing to anything.
 
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I suspect that the med school will be the biggest barrier as well. I'd apply to some 4-year programs.

Did you attend the OMFS course at NPDS Bethesda? I've probably crossed paths with you at some point...

I completely concur with you, UW is one school I was really interested in prior to it turning to 6 yrs, and now I can only drool while browsing its website (it's close to home in Vancouver).
Same thing for another program down in Texas (which I can't recall now) which has some really strong CF surgeon (UNC and then CF fellowship trained). I lost it when it says US citizen only... 😛

I certainly think I should have a contingency plan, I guess it might be worth while looking into some strong 4 yr programs as well... Any suggestions? Carle came to mind as I searched thru the forum and it seemed very robust.

I am not sure if Walter Reed centre was the same as NPDS, but I was there 2013 for a week. Great course and great instructors for sure! When were you there?
 
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I completely concur with you, UW is one school I was really interested in prior to it turning to 6 yrs, and now I can only drool while browsing its website (it's close to home in Vancouver).
Same thing for another program down in Texas (which I can't recall now) which has some really strong CF surgeon (UNC and then CF fellowship trained). I lost it when it says US citizen only... 😛

And I certainly think I should have a contingency plan, I guess it might be worth while looking into some strong 4 yr programs as well... Any suggestions? Carle came to mind as I searched thru the forum and it seemed very robust.

I am not sure if Walter Reed centre was the same as NPDS, but I was there 2013 for a week. Great course and great instructors for sure! When were you there?


Walter Reed is the same installation but the course is at NPDS which is attached physically but is a different command. I took that course in 2013 and again in 2014 so we were classmates that week.

I'd apply to as many programs as possible, honestly.
 
I thought I would update some of the schools I have called so far who commented on this.

Vandy: program coordinator believed they have not accepted any who has not just gone straight from dent school or at most done a GPR/Internship. She will update with me once she has a chance to talk to the PD.

UCLA: program assistant believed it to not be a problem, even though she did mention as for references/recommedations, a mix of both academic and military would be preferred. Her own words: "try to get as higher up as you can from the school to get your reference letter".
Interestingly, when the topic of CBSE score was brought up, she did mention that the highest she ever seen coming to her program is 84....
My first impression at the sound of that, to be frank, was not good. Because that seemed to suggest that the applicants with really strong score like 85+ (and the occasional 90s) had not applied to UCLA. This again is only my interpretation, and I did not think it's appropriate to confront that with her. So I left it at that.

UNC: Program coordinator said it straight up, it's definitely not a problem. She then added that, in fact they have accepted ex-mil mbr previously. And as for references, the program wouldn't mind them being from the mil only.

U of F Jacksonville: program assistant said it's not a problem. And she even said in fact there's one mil applicant for this current cycle.

UAB: Program assistant said she doesn't have a definitive answer, but she will bring it up her CoC. Pending a reply.

That's all I have for now.

Anyone who has similar background as mine is welcomed to comment on your experience.
 
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