OMFS - unmatched spots 2023 - 2026 - avoid them at all cost

[hahadino2771]

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I organized the unmatched spots from 2023 - 2026 for SDN.

There is a reason that those programs have unmatched spots.

It is a match system. It happens.

However, if it is happening every year or every other year, it is a huge red flag. Those programs have a high risk of resident attrition, dissatisfaction, resident abuse, resident transferring to other programs etc. They also have a tendency to provide cancer heavy training rather than full scope of core OMFS surgery.

Here we go! hope you find it helpful. Here is the trend.

 

[TheLastDance]

Damn, what happened to Emory and Loma Linda? Emory SOM/OMFS used to be reputable. Has to be the tuition hikes.

 

[FloridaDental_2024]

Which one in Brooklyn?

Kings Country, One Brooklyn Health, Brooklyn Hospital or Woodhulll

 

[hahadino2771]

Which one in Brooklyn?

Kings Country, One Brooklyn Health, Brooklyn Hospital or Woodhulll

One Brooklyn Health System / Brookdale Hospital

 

[hahadino2771]

Damn, what happened to Emory and Loma Linda? Emory SOM/OMFS used to be reputable. Has to be the tuition hikes.

naive. tuition only? I think you should reach out to Emory residents or alumni or externs.

 

[FloridaDental_2024]

One Brooklyn Health System / Brookdale Hospital

I thought one Brooklyn only accepts 2 candidates per year. Where is the "4" coming from?

 

[Tvirtumas]

It would be valuable if people knew specifics around why programs went unmatched.

 

[gigachadomfs]

Case also went unmatched last year

 

[Pralk Nekorf]

It would be valuable if people knew specifics around why programs went unmatched.

In the way that the match does not work for all applicants, it does not work for all programs. Needless to say, some of these programs are known for not having the greatest reputation. However, I do not think that or any other reason (like too much cancer, being "malignant," etc.) can attribute the reason these programs have unmatched spots. Hence while some of these programs should be looked into with caution I would not go as far to say "avoid them at all cost." Some of these programs are known to be powerhouses and are still extremely highly regarded. Yeah sure your attending might cus you out or the program might do more head and neck than you want, but you will still be highly regarded for having trained at that program. This is surgery after all.

I am looking at it a bit differently and thinking, with this many unmatched spots, maybe the match process isnt meant for our specialty. How is it that there were 2 programs this year that were COMPLETELY unmatched and others that matched less than 33% of their spots, yet there was nearly 200 people in the match process who didnt match. With our program sizes being small, its very possible for a program with 2 or even 1 spots to have 20-30 people rank it #1. I believe we are the only specialty besides dental anesthesia that does not have nonmatch programs :/

 

[Tutling]

We should be moving to preference signaling. The basic problem is “match at all cost”. You are currently incentivized to apply to any many programs as you can afford. And then go to as many interviews as you can afford. So in the end you you get the same group of 40 applicants roaming the nation with little variety. Those applicant can’t fill all the spots. Anecdotally I met many people who applied to 70 plus programs and interviewed at 30 plus.

Medicine had the same issue and resolved by variations of signaling. We should adopt the way ENT does in IMO. 5 gold signal and 15 silver signals. If programs get a gold then know that they are top 5 and if a program doesn’t get a signal then they know that they aren’t in your top 20.

Sheriff of sodium has a really good video of this that was made for medical matching. Ortho adopted a version of this and the average applicant went from applying to 150 programs to 30. Which just happens to be their signal limit.

 

[Masterus]

I organized the unmatched spots from 2023 - 2026 for SDN.

There is a reason that those programs have unmatched spots.

It is a match system. It happens.

However, if it is happening every year or every other year, it is a huge red flag. Those programs have a high risk of resident attrition, dissatisfaction, resident abuse, resident transferring to other programs etc. They also have a tendency to provide cancer heavy training rather than full scope of core OMFS surgery.

Here we go! hope you find it helpful. Here is the trend.

View attachment 414923

It's a little ridiculous to bash on programs listed above. Programs change every few years. The unmatched list changes every year. Some programs barely avoid this list by 1 spot and match the very bottom of their list. Good programs go unmatched all the time. It is not abnormal for a 6 year to go unmatched these days. 6 year is just not popular anymore. The 4 year applicant pool is almost 2-3 times the size of the 6 year pool. LSU New Orleans, Alabama, UNC, Baylor have always and will consistently be some of the top 6 year programs in the country. Sure they didn't match recently. They are rich in history, have good case volume and numbers, and tons of success graduates. Their graduates will always shine in terms of respect from their peers in the OMFS community. The applicant pool has shifted so hard towards 4 year and working less you can't fault programs for being too busy.

 

[Tvirtumas]

In the way that the match does not work for all applicants, it does not work for all programs. Needless to say, some of these programs are known for not having the greatest reputation. However, I do not think that or any other reason (like too much cancer, being "malignant," etc.) can attribute the reason these programs have unmatched spots. Hence while some of these programs should be looked into with caution I would not go as far to say "avoid them at all cost." Some of these programs are known to be powerhouses and are still extremely highly regarded. Yeah sure your attending might cus you out or the program might do more head and neck than you want, but you will still be highly regarded for having trained at that program. This is surgery after all.

I am looking at it a bit differently and thinking, with this many unmatched spots, maybe the match process isnt meant for our specialty. How is it that there were 2 programs this year that were COMPLETELY unmatched and others that matched less than 33% of their spots, yet there was nearly 200 people in the match process who didnt match. With our program sizes being small, its very possible for a program with 2 or even 1 spots to have 20-30 people rank it #1. I believe we are the only specialty besides dental anesthesia that does not have nonmatch programs :/

Thank you, I'm not as connected as other applicants so I'm personally curious what the drama is with some of these programs. Ultimately, I agree with you that the match is not ideal for the specialty.

 

[BYU4you]

For me, the concern isn’t the initial approach being via a match or non-match system but how the unfilled spots are handled. In the medical side of things the post-match SOAP offers a way to prevent a public list like this from happening and gives unmatched applicants a fairer opportunity to be placed somewhere.

In OMFS. The list of unfilled positions is posted and only accessible to view by people who registered that cycle. However, as it stands, anyone including those who didn’t even apply this cycle are free to reach out and secure a spot. This is unfortunate for those who didn’t match. They may be a great applicant and didn’t have the time or finances to apply and interview everywhere, but now they are up against significantly more people for each remaining spot. This current method incentivizes (doesn’t discourage) the programs to keep their actual interviews small, because they can have free-ability later to pick whoever they want based on whatever that person sent them in their outreach.


In the medical side of things, unfilled positions are available to unmatched applicants who then pick which positions they are applying to at this second stage. It’s forbidden to post or share the list of unfilled positions and it’s strictly forbidden to have any applicant initiated contact with the programs.
The programs then choose from the new batch of unfilled applications who to interview and a preference list based on those applications. (This occurring within a couple days after the match and they interview a large number in quick long distance fashion).
Then over 1 day there are four two hour rounds where the programs offer invitations and the applicants must make their decision to accept within that two hour window. Then whatever remaining spots are likewise offered to remaining unmatched applicants who interviewed for soap spots until either all positions are filled or the day ends. Following this, the match system is over and if there are any programs that still have unfilled spots these are then handled via the same method as OMFS at that point essentially.

 

[Pralk Nekorf]

Thank you, I'm not as connected as other applicants so I'm personally curious what the drama is with some of these programs. Ultimately, I agree with you that the match is not ideal for the specialty.

Happy to talk more in PMs. I didn't want to bash any programs publicly, lol

 

[kamsartipi]

Happy to talk more in PMs. I didn't want to bash any programs publicly, lol

hey man dm'ed you

 

[richieincognito]

naive. tuition only? I think you should reach out to Emory residents or alumni or externs.

Can you elaborate on this?