OMFS vs Orthodontics

[deleted923283]

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One has an unhealthy phobia of blood, the other a profound lust for it.

Big Hoss

I taught the dental students how to start IVs today. Instant way to pick out the future orthodontists.

 

[gryffindor]

@gryffindor . Interesting take on ortho residency. I believe you also attended a hospital residency as I did. My experiences were different. Undergrad dentistry seemed easy for me. I attended a nice midwestern state dental school with that typical undergrad college football feel. It all changed when I attended the hospital ortho residency. I was one of 4 residents. There was nowhere to HIDE lol. Even though the competition was over .... I felt more pressure in the residency than I ever did in dental school. A different type of pressure and stress. I was pretty busy with my thesis, the patients, the trips to the medical school for the didactics, the presentations for the craniofacial team, trying to impress the program director, etc. etc. For whatever reason .... residency felt real and undergrad dentistry felt more like SCHOOL. The THESIS itself was extremely stressful. You had to pick a topic that was "doable" with a 100% chance of completion. The statistics. Making sure your test patients in your thesis made it to their appts. The constant stress of designing and completing a publishable research thesis. Then presenting it to the faculty. One of my fellow residents did not complete his thesis on time due to losing some of his test patients which threw off the statistics. He literally had to complete his thesis and did not graduate until about 6 monthths after we all graduated. 6 months!

Yes I did attend a hospital residency and I was also 1 of 4 ortho residents but it wasn't anything like you are describing. I went to SUNY Buffalo for dental school it was ROUGH getting through dental school trying to stay at the top of the class. I don't know anyone who attended a college football game for obvious reasons, the team sucked. I did not write any kind of thesis like you had to write in ortho; I did write one like that in dental school though it was based on lab research and not patient results. In ortho residency, I wrote some weak paper about sleep apnea in 3rd year in order to finish and get the certificate. It may have just been my program. There weren't that many academic types roaming the halls trying to give you trouble like there were in dental school. I see all these gig-economy "jobs" now and realize I would have been a top notch Instacart person if it had existed back in 2007. I used to spend my weekends roaming around Publix and Walmart because I literally had nothing else to do. I had received my dental license in TN just under the wire; 2 weeks after I applied for the license they stopped accepting NERB results. Back then there were hardly any dental offices with weekend hours, much less one that would hire a silly ortho resident so I couldn't even moonlight. I finally found a job with one of those mobile dentistry places my third year and drove all over the state removing periodontally mobile teeth and root tips in an operatory built in a trailer (I did not have to drive the trailer LOL). The other ortho residents I would meet at the meetings did think I was nuts for having a moonlighitng job that involved blood and grossness, but it paid well (I didn't even need the money) and wasn't hard and I was BORED.

It did help that I knew how to load an injection syringe properly and troubleshoot it if it didn't work.

 

[2TH MVR]

I taught the dental students how to start IVs today. Instant way to pick out the future orthodontists.

Too funny. I spent alot of time perfecting the fine technique of pointing a finger at assistants and directing them to do the delegable work on a patient. It's harder than most people think. Sitting in a chair ... always using that pointing finger. During my down time .... I usually will do stretches with my finger to keep it from cramping up.

OP. don't pick Ortho. Too hard on the body. Damn. I need some ice to ice down my throbbing pointer finger. Maybe I can consider a future disability claim.

 

[Roto Picante]

I’m just crossing my fingers that OP gets their island.

Preferably one without wireless connection.

Best post of this whole thread.

But in all seriousness, It doesn't matter what you do but if you associate your whole life, the road is significantly harder. I am a GP owner in a high reimbursement area and am making close to the numbers you are throwing around. Work 7-3 , 4 days a week and don't do any endo, extractions or place implants.

If all you are looking for is money and good family life, buy a GP office within 2 years of graduating in an area that pays well for services.

 

[2TH MVR]

Best post of this whole thread.

But in all seriousness, It doesn't matter what you do but if you associate your whole life, the road is significantly harder. I am a GP owner in a high reimbursement area and am making close to the numbers you are throwing around. Work 7-3 , 4 days a week and don't do any endo, extractions or place implants.

If all you are looking for is money and good family life, buy a GP office within 2 years of graduating in an area that pays well for services.

Can you describe these areas?

 

[desertrat12]

I wish there was a way to truly inform dental students what oms residency is like. If it were possible, many of those struggling to decide between specialties would drop the idea of OMFS and be happier for it. Externships don’t even cut it, especially now that many are virtual. You may see a week of a program, but you don’t get any taste of what it’s like to have the pressure on you, persistent prolonged sleep deprivation, long stretches without food, no real break except for maybe one day off a week, being constantly belittled by attendings, etc. We have a few residents in our program who probably shouldn’t have chosen oms and they are miserable. Deep down miserable. I feel very bad for them. They are good people who’s lives have really taken a turn for the worse. They probably would have thrived in some other specialty. I’m all for personal responsibility, but it almost feels a bit unfair that they were sucked into this without a full picture of what it’s like, and unfortunately almost all incoming residents don’t truly understand what it will be like. There certainly is a dark side of residency that is hinted at but almost impossible to grasp until you are experiencing it.

If your goal of an island is strong enough to sustain you through 4-6 yrs of what would be considered a hostile work environment anywhere outside of medicine, then go for it.

 

[bergus95]

I wish there was a way to truly inform dental students what oms residency is like. If it were possible, many of those struggling to decide between specialties would drop the idea of OMFS and be happier for it. Externships don’t even cut it, especially now that many are virtual. You may see a week of a program, but you don’t get any taste of what it’s like to have the pressure on you, persistent prolonged sleep deprivation, long stretches without food, no real break except for maybe one day off a week, being constantly belittled by attendings, etc. We have a few residents in our program who probably shouldn’t have chosen oms and they are miserable. Deep down miserable. I feel very bad for them. They are good people who’s lives have really taken a turn for the worse. They probably would have thrived in some other specialty. I’m all for personal responsibility, but it almost feels a bit unfair that they were sucked into this without a full picture of what it’s like, and unfortunately almost all incoming residents don’t truly understand what it will be like. There certainly is a dark side of residency that is hinted at but almost impossible to grasp until you are experiencing it.

If your goal of an island is strong enough to sustain you through 4-6 yrs of what would be considered a hostile work environment anywhere outside of medicine, then go for it.

I feel this, hard

 

[deleted923283]

I wish there was a way to truly inform dental students what oms residency is like. If it were possible, many of those struggling to decide between specialties would drop the idea of OMFS and be happier for it. Externships don’t even cut it, especially now that many are virtual. You may see a week of a program, but you don’t get any taste of what it’s like to have the pressure on you, persistent prolonged sleep deprivation, long stretches without food, no real break except for maybe one day off a week, being constantly belittled by attendings, etc. We have a few residents in our program who probably shouldn’t have chosen oms and they are miserable. Deep down miserable. I feel very bad for them. They are good people who’s lives have really taken a turn for the worse. They probably would have thrived in some other specialty. I’m all for personal responsibility, but it almost feels a bit unfair that they were sucked into this without a full picture of what it’s like, and unfortunately almost all incoming residents don’t truly understand what it will be like. There certainly is a dark side of residency that is hinted at but almost impossible to grasp until you are experiencing it.

If your goal of an island is strong enough to sustain you through 4-6 yrs of what would be considered a hostile work environment anywhere outside of medicine, then go for it.

Also shows why ranking programs based on the people should be the #1 factor.

 

[D1Bound]

Best post of this whole thread.

But in all seriousness, It doesn't matter what you do but if you associate your whole life, the road is significantly harder. I am a GP owner in a high reimbursement area and am making close to the numbers you are throwing around. Work 7-3 , 4 days a week and don't do any endo, extractions or place implants.

If all you are looking for is money and good family life, buy a GP office within 2 years of graduating in an area that pays well for services.

Dentists always keep it on the DL what’s actually possible. They always go and quote the average salary posted by the ADA or

I wish there was a way to truly inform dental students what oms residency is like. If it were possible, many of those struggling to decide between specialties would drop the idea of OMFS and be happier for it. Externships don’t even cut it, especially now that many are virtual. You may see a week of a program, but you don’t get any taste of what it’s like to have the pressure on you, persistent prolonged sleep deprivation, long stretches without food, no real break except for maybe one day off a week, being constantly belittled by attendings, etc. We have a few residents in our program who probably shouldn’t have chosen oms and they are miserable. Deep down miserable. I feel very bad for them. They are good people who’s lives have really taken a turn for the worse. They probably would have thrived in some other specialty. I’m all for personal responsibility, but it almost feels a bit unfair that they were sucked into this without a full picture of what it’s like, and unfortunately almost all incoming residents don’t truly understand what it will be like. There certainly is a dark side of residency that is hinted at but almost impossible to grasp until you are experiencing it.

If your goal of an island is strong enough to sustain you through 4-6 yrs of what would be considered a hostile work environment anywhere outside of medicine, then go for it.

Several times a week I take a sober reflection at the gravity of OMS residency. It truly does sound horrible, thus I'm just not ready to fully commit yet. I try to tell my fellow students this as well who are interested in OMS who have not done an externship. They don't listen. I definitely think a decision to do OMS should be done with caution and resolve

 

[deleted1047421]

In terms of post training, private practice.

Regarding pay, oral surgeons are paid significantly higher as compared to orthodontists.
However, this will come at a price.

The residency is extremely rigorous and difficult.
I’ve posted on this before.
If you are lucky enough to get into omfs residency, get ready for what many would call the most difficult challenge in their entire lives. It will push you to what you believe is the limit, and then it will push you beyond. Those who go into omfs… many are like myself. They could not foresee themselves doing anything other than omfs.

In terms of lifestyle it’s much easier once you graduate. However omfs is quite physical and not without the stress of surgical complications and anesthesia risk. Again it comes with a price. There is a saying among oral surgeons. We don’t stop practicing until our bodies break. That being said many practice into their 70s.

 

[DDSER1]

I wish there was a way to truly inform dental students what oms residency is like. If it were possible, many of those struggling to decide between specialties would drop the idea of OMFS and be happier for it. Externships don’t even cut it, especially now that many are virtual. You may see a week of a program, but you don’t get any taste of what it’s like to have the pressure on you, persistent prolonged sleep deprivation, long stretches without food, no real break except for maybe one day off a week, being constantly belittled by attendings, etc. We have a few residents in our program who probably shouldn’t have chosen oms and they are miserable. Deep down miserable. I feel very bad for them. They are good people who’s lives have really taken a turn for the worse. They probably would have thrived in some other specialty. I’m all for personal responsibility, but it almost feels a bit unfair that they were sucked into this without a full picture of what it’s like, and unfortunately almost all incoming residents don’t truly understand what it will be like. There certainly is a dark side of residency that is hinted at but almost impossible to grasp until you are experiencing it.

If your goal of an island is strong enough to sustain you through 4-6 yrs of what would be considered a hostile work environment anywhere outside of medicine, then go for it.

Just wanted to add to this, even though residency is very grueling and demanding, I am still loving it. There's something satisfying about pushing yourself to your limit everyday. If you're sure you love the field and cant imagine doing anything else, dont let the grueling residency scare you. Also, you can't take whats said at work personally, if you get roasted by attendings/seniors, just take it on the chin and move on

 

[mcat_taker]

I wish there was a way to truly inform dental students what oms residency is like. If it were possible, many of those struggling to decide between specialties would drop the idea of OMFS and be happier for it. Externships don’t even cut it, especially now that many are virtual. You may see a week of a program, but you don’t get any taste of what it’s like to have the pressure on you, persistent prolonged sleep deprivation, long stretches without food, no real break except for maybe one day off a week, being constantly belittled by attendings, etc. We have a few residents in our program who probably shouldn’t have chosen oms and they are miserable. Deep down miserable. I feel very bad for them. They are good people who’s lives have really taken a turn for the worse. They probably would have thrived in some other specialty. I’m all for personal responsibility, but it almost feels a bit unfair that they were sucked into this without a full picture of what it’s like, and unfortunately almost all incoming residents don’t truly understand what it will be like. There certainly is a dark side of residency that is hinted at but almost impossible to grasp until you are experiencing it.

If your goal of an island is strong enough to sustain you through 4-6 yrs of what would be considered a hostile work environment anywhere outside of medicine, then go for it.

Just out of curiosity isn't OMFS basically equivalent to being a surgical resident after med school ? Plenty of people manage to get through various surgical residencies. Doesn't seem that different then say ENT or Plastics but i'm not very familiar with the field.

 

[Racquetball3r]

If this happened in my GPR, the Oral surgery chief would have yelled at all of us the next day. If this happened in my ortho residency, the Oral Surgery chair would have yelled at all of us the next day.

I can't remember where you are in your dental path but if you're an oral surgery resident, then go yell at the ortho residents. No seriously, they need to hear it. Early on in my career I had a mom heading to the ER for a poking wire but she thought to give me a heads up and call me on her way there. I didn't know it was a thing, that people would run to the ER for a braces problem. Since then, I lecture the new bondings that if a wire is poking and their kid is driving them insane on Friday at 6 pm, they are to text me first and I will figure out a solution that doesn't involve the ER.

In my OMFS program we found out the perio and ortho residents were telling patients to contact the OMFS resident on call if they were having issues after hours. I got countless middle of the night pages about broken brackets/arch wires, gum graft related stuff. I of course always made sure they weren’t actually having any acute emergencies before telling them as politely as I could muster at the moment to contact the department who did their procedure. That’ll really piss you off when you’re getting destroyed by trauma call while several inpatients are actively circling the drain, and you’re mid 36 hour shift, all while the perio and ortho residents are at home sleeping like babies. Just wanted to vent a bit.

To OP, consider the costs of doing omfs, opportunity cost, time sacrifice, emotional and physical sacrifices before making a decision.

 

[New_Vegas]

The truth of the matter is that orthodontists can still make over 1 million per year (I know one who does) with only one office in a saturated city. Others in the city make around 600k (I know this because I have a family friend who is an accountant in the area who works with dental clients and told me lol).

It sounds like all residency programs are very different, but mine is VERY chill. Everybody graduates from the program very competent at doing ortho, but the stress level is near zero. We have a pretty standard 8:30 to 5:00 day, but we schedule our own patients when we want to see them. So if we are fast, we can get our work done and go home at 3:30 if we want to. The only thing I wish we had was a little more experience fabricating appliances, etc. But there are faculty members who are willing to teach if you ask them - you just have to be proactive about it.

Also - are people still trimming models at other ortho programs? We scan every patient with a 3d scanner, and we use orthocad to measure the mesiodistal width of the teeth to check for amount of crowding/spacing and bolton discrepancies. When we need a cast for something, we usually just scan a patient and 3d print it. So we almost never have to trim models.

I think the reason why a lot of orthodontists don't make more money than they do is that many of them are only working like 3 days per week. When they report average annual salaries, I'd be interested in seeing the average amount of days worked per week for each of the specialties. If anybody has any data on that please let me know.

 

[Racquetball3r]

Just out of curiosity isn't OMFS basically equivalent to being a surgical resident after med school ? Plenty of people manage to get through various surgical residencies. Doesn't seem that different then say ENT or Plastics but i'm not very familiar with the field.

Medical surgical residencies are governed by work hour restrictions, such as no more than 80 hrs/week, or getting a day off after 24 hr shifts. Some of them skirt these rules in various ways, but still they have something in place that protects them from really crazy hours. OMFS does not have this, because we don’t fall under the medical umbrella, and the rules therefore somehow don’t protect us. Some omfs programs choose to self impose these rules, many do not. It is not unusual at my program to work 110-120 hrs/week during intern year, while being awake for multiple 36 hour periods each week. At my hospital at least it is well understood that omfs intern year is worse than any other surgical intern year including neurosurgery, ent, orthopedics etc.

 

[bergus95]

Medical surgical residencies are governed by work hour restrictions, such as no more than 80 hrs/week, or getting a day off after 24 hr shifts. Some of them skirt these rules in various ways, but still they have something in place that protects them from really crazy hours. OMFS does not have this, because we don’t fall under the medical umbrella, and the rules therefore somehow don’t protect us. Some omfs programs choose to self impose these rules, many do not. It is not unusual at my program to work 110-120 hrs/week during intern year, while being awake for multiple 36 hour periods each week. At my hospital at least it is well understood that omfs intern year is worse than any other surgical intern year including neurosurgery, ent, orthopedics etc.

This is not the norm at most programs

 

[702]

This is not the norm at most programs

My program is very similar in workload. 36-40 hour call shifts with no post-call one or twice a week.

 

[yappy]

wrong post*

 

[2TH MVR]

In my OMFS program we found out the perio and ortho residents were telling patients to contact the OMFS resident on call if they were having issues after hours. I got countless middle of the night pages about broken brackets/arch wires, gum graft related stuff. I of course always made sure they weren’t actually having any acute emergencies before telling them as politely as I could muster at the moment to contact the department who did their procedure. That’ll really piss you off when you’re getting destroyed by trauma call while several inpatients are actively circling the drain, and you’re mid 36 hour shift, all while the perio and ortho residents are at home sleeping like babies. Just wanted to vent a bit.

I attended a hospital ortho residency. Shared the same floor as the OMFS and GPR residents. The after hours on call was structured in that OMFS residents were called 1st followed by the GPR residents and lastly ... us lowly ortho residents. During my entire residency ... I never had to answer an on call request to see an emergency patient. Not once.

 

[bergus95]

My program is very similar in workload. 36-40 hour call shifts with no post-call one or twice a week.

Haven’t had to work 120hr/week yet but who knows. I’m sure it’ll come

 

[deleted1047421]

Medical surgical residencies are governed by work hour restrictions, such as no more than 80 hrs/week, or getting a day off after 24 hr shifts. Some of them skirt these rules in various ways, but still they have something in place that protects them from really crazy hours. OMFS does not have this, because we don’t fall under the medical umbrella, and the rules therefore somehow don’t protect us. Some omfs programs choose to self impose these rules, many do not. It is not unusual at my program to work 110-120 hrs/week during intern year, while being awake for multiple 36 hour periods each week. At my hospital at least it is well understood that omfs intern year is worse than any other surgical intern year including neurosurgery, ent, orthopedics etc.

It was common for entering residents to work routinely up to 140 hours a week in my program.

I’ve heard of multiple residents getting in car accidents from the fatigue of long hours.
Things may have changed since I went to residency but it was widely known that many omfs programs circumvent the 80 hour work week restrictions by stating that they are a coda- regulated specialty and coda does not have such restrictions.

the long hours is one reason why omfs is difficult. In addition to the long hours, many omfs residencies are intentionally understaffed. I’ve heard my chairman say on more than one occasion that by adding residents, non categorical interns… it would dilute the residency experience.
On top of that dental school typically does not prepare dental students in any way to work in a hospital environment. It is literally the feeling of being pushed off into the deep end and being forced to swim.

 

[bergus95]

It was common for entering residents to work routinely up to 140 hours a week in my program.

I’ve heard of multiple residents getting in car accidents from the fatigue of long hours.
Things may have changed since I went to residency but it was widely known that many omfs programs circumvent the 80 hour work week restrictions by stating that they are a coda- regulated specialty and coda does not have such restrictions.

the long hours is one reason why omfs is difficult. In addition to the long hours, many omfs residencies are intentionally understaffed. I’ve heard my chairman say on more than one occasion that by adding residents, non categorical interns… it would dilute the residency experience.
On top of that dental school typically does not prepare dental students in any way to work in a hospital environment. It is literally the feeling of being pushed off into the deep end and being forced to swim.

That last sentence is my life

 

[D1Bound]

In my OMFS program we found out the perio and ortho residents were telling patients to contact the OMFS resident on call if they were having issues after hours. I got countless middle of the night pages about broken brackets/arch wires, gum graft related stuff. I of course always made sure they weren’t actually having any acute emergencies before telling them as politely as I could muster at the moment to contact the department who did their procedure. That’ll really piss you off when you’re getting destroyed by trauma call while several inpatients are actively circling the drain, and you’re mid 36 hour shift, all while the perio and ortho residents are at home sleeping like babies. Just wanted to vent a bit.

To OP, consider the costs of doing omfs, opportunity cost, time sacrifice, emotional and physical sacrifices before making a decision.

How would you approach another program and explain how that simply just isn't okay? That's almost comical how horrible that is. A call for a broken bracket? Goodness gracious man all you could do is hysterically laugh

 

[New_Vegas]

How would you approach another program and explain how that simply just isn't okay? That's almost comical how horrible that is. A call for a broken bracket? Goodness gracious man all you could do is hysterically laugh

Broken bracket can wait, but when the archwire moves distally and starts poking, that can really hurt lol

 

[ShortShortsDad]

It was common for entering residents to work routinely up to 140 hours a week in my program.

I’ve heard of multiple residents getting in car accidents from the fatigue of long hours.
Things may have changed since I went to residency but it was widely known that many omfs programs circumvent the 80 hour work week restrictions by stating that they are a coda- regulated specialty and coda does not have such restrictions.

the long hours is one reason why omfs is difficult. In addition to the long hours, many omfs residencies are intentionally understaffed. I’ve heard my chairman say on more than one occasion that by adding residents, non categorical interns… it would dilute the residency experience.
On top of that dental school typically does not prepare dental students in any way to work in a hospital environment. It is literally the feeling of being pushed off into the deep end and being forced to swim.

Agree.

Things got way easier after COVID with the tempo dropping off but my intern year I was doing multiple 120hr weeks although not every week. No post call haha I can only imagine the destruction that would ensue if someone brought that up. Numerous times being on call and AWAKE for 72hrs straight falling asleep while holding down toddlers in the ED sewing them up. Sleeping on the floor with a bloody shoe for a pillow since the call bed was taken.

Those experiences were truly soul crushingly awful, fundamentally change you as a person bad, kill of part of your soul and destroy empathy tragic. I had a stretch in a level 1 trauma center on the Mexican border taking primary call for 60 days no break. 24/7 getting hammered for 2 months straight. I completed well over double my Chief years requirements in that time but I can’t tell you how many times I would get a call for gang member who got in a shootout with the cops and I would get consulted for facial fractures from a bullet to the brain and after not sleeping for more than an hour or two at a time for weeks this animalistic part of you hopes the gang member just dies so you don’t have to consult and get another 20min of sleep. Truly awful but it legitimately pushes you past breaking.

Now that **** allows you to set emotions aside and when someone is dying in the trauma bay you know how to get stuff done fast or when someone codes in your chair you can rescue them immediately. You get comfortable being uncomfortable.

 

[rotichawal]

Damn you guys are making my 100 hour weeks seem easy

 

[702]

Agree.

Things got way easier after COVID with the tempo dropping off but my intern year I was doing multiple 120hr weeks although not every week. No post call haha I can only imagine the destruction that would ensue if someone brought that up. Numerous times being on call and AWAKE for 72hrs straight falling asleep while holding down toddlers in the ED sewing them up. Sleeping on the floor with a bloody shoe for a pillow since the call bed was taken.

Those experiences were truly soul crushingly awful, fundamentally change you as a person bad, kill of part of your soul and destroy empathy tragic. I had a stretch in a level 1 trauma center on the Mexican border taking primary call for 60 days no break. 24/7 getting hammered for 2 months straight. I completed well over double my Chief years requirements in that time but I can’t tell you how many times I would get a call for gang member who got in a shootout with the cops and I would get consulted for facial fractures from a bullet to the brain and after not sleeping for more than an hour or two at a time for weeks this animalistic part of you hopes the gang member just dies so you don’t have to consult and get another 20min of sleep. Truly awful but it legitimately pushes you past breaking.

Now that **** allows you to set emotions aside and when someone is dying in the trauma bay you know how to get stuff done fast or when someone codes in your chair you can rescue them immediately. You get comfortable being uncomfortable.

This

 

[Gustavo dos Santos]

This is not the norm at most programs

What are you saying is not the norm? 80 hrs/week and Off after call?

or the 120hrs/ week and don’t get the day off after call?

 

[aaaaa]

Agree.

Things got way easier after COVID with the tempo dropping off but my intern year I was doing multiple 120hr weeks although not every week. No post call haha I can only imagine the destruction that would ensue if someone brought that up. Numerous times being on call and AWAKE for 72hrs straight falling asleep while holding down toddlers in the ED sewing them up. Sleeping on the floor with a bloody shoe for a pillow since the call bed was taken.

Those experiences were truly soul crushingly awful, fundamentally change you as a person bad, kill of part of your soul and destroy empathy tragic. I had a stretch in a level 1 trauma center on the Mexican border taking primary call for 60 days no break. 24/7 getting hammered for 2 months straight. I completed well over double my Chief years requirements in that time but I can’t tell you how many times I would get a call for gang member who got in a shootout with the cops and I would get consulted for facial fractures from a bullet to the brain and after not sleeping for more than an hour or two at a time for weeks this animalistic part of you hopes the gang member just dies so you don’t have to consult and get another 20min of sleep. Truly awful but it legitimately pushes you past breaking.

Now that **** allows you to set emotions aside and when someone is dying in the trauma bay you know how to get stuff done fast or when someone codes in your chair you can rescue them immediately. You get comfortable being uncomfortable.

Agreed with others who have stated how difficult residency can be but honestly it was some of the best years of my life. Learning and experiencing new things literally every single day for 4-6 years. I went from finishing some crowns and fillings in dental school to one month later intubating and running a room as an “anesthesia resident”. Literally thrown right into it. The attendings on other services loved OMS residents because we all had a chip on our shoulders and were willing to take extra work and work harder than all the other services including their own residents. Funny thing was that they also knew we weren’t bound by duty hours so during general surgery the last resident to leave was usually OMS. “Hey your OMS aren’t you? Come help me and Dr. Johnson do a graft for this guy that might loose his leg, everyone else has to go home and the on call resident is busy”. 6 hours later youre still sitting there while everyone else got to go home. It sucked but it was fun. Most who finish look back at residency as some of the most rewarding and fun times of their lives. You forget the horrible times, and they can be pretty horrible.
Most OMS wouldn’t have it any other way.

 

[Racquetball3r]

How would you approach another program and explain how that simply just isn't okay? That's almost comical how horrible that is. A call for a broken bracket? Goodness gracious man all you could do is hysterically laugh

I honestly try to give them the benefit of the doubt. I know they have no clue what we go through, especially when we’re on call. I can see how they might see it being okay since we’re there anyways taking care of other sort of dental related stuff, might as well have my patient call them. I got pretty good at ending the conversations quickly, while also trying to get the point across to the patient that the call to me was somewhat inappropriate, hoping that the message would make it on to the ortho and perio residents.

 

[bergus95]

What are you saying is not the norm? 80 hrs/week and Off after call?

or the 120hrs/ week and don’t get the day off after call?

The latter

 

[D1Bound]

I think there is SOME exaggeration going on here. I know at least one program I visited the residents got to "chill" on anesthesia and medicine rotations with 50-60 hour weeks.

 

[bergus95]

I think there is SOME exaggeration going on here. I know at least one program I visited the residents got to "chill" on anesthesia and medicine rotations with 50-60 hour weeks.

Many don’t take call or even have weekends off during those rotations

 

[mcat_taker]

This thread was interesting to read. i'm a medical resident and all my friends are in various medical residencies so I know very little about OMFS and the training. And out of curiosity I still get confused about scope of practice between ENT and OMFS and who to consult. I was in the ED once dealing with a comminuted nasal septum fracture of some sort and a maxillary sinus fracture. I forget exactly the extent of the trauma at this point but basically an old lady who fell on her face on the street and I wasn't sure if I was supposed to consult OMFS or ENT. And now that I think about it I wonder if I could I have called plastics in this situation too.

Anyway after trying to figure out who to call between ENT or OMFS to see this patient in ED I called the OMFS resident on call who saw the patient and they handled it from there but I'm still curious if ENT would have also taken the consult.

 

[mangler]

This thread was interesting to read. i'm a medical resident and all my friends are in various medical residencies so I know very little about OMFS and the training. And out of curiosity I still get confused about scope of practice between ENT and OMFS and who to consult. I was in the ED once dealing with a comminuted nasal septum fracture of some sort and a maxillary sinus fracture. I forget exactly the extent of the trauma at this point but basically an old lady who fell on her face on the street and I wasn't sure if I was supposed to consult OMFS or ENT. And now that I think about it I wonder if I could I have called plastics in this situation too.

Anyway after trying to figure out who to call between ENT or OMFS to see this patient in ED I called the OMFS resident on call who saw the patient and they handled it from there but I'm still curious if ENT would have also taken the consult.

OMFS/ENT/Plastics often take turns covering facial trauma. That's how they did it at my hospital at any rate. I imagine any of them could have taken that consult.

 

[ThirdMolarz]

This thread was interesting to read. i'm a medical resident and all my friends are in various medical residencies so I know very little about OMFS and the training. And out of curiosity I still get confused about scope of practice between ENT and OMFS and who to consult. I was in the ED once dealing with a comminuted nasal septum fracture of some sort and a maxillary sinus fracture. I forget exactly the extent of the trauma at this point but basically an old lady who fell on her face on the street and I wasn't sure if I was supposed to consult OMFS or ENT. And now that I think about it I wonder if I could I have called plastics in this situation too.

Anyway after trying to figure out who to call between ENT or OMFS to see this patient in ED I called the OMFS resident on call who saw the patient and they handled it from there but I'm still curious if ENT would have also taken the consult.

Also depends on the program how ENT/plastics/OMFS split up call

 

[MIIMtodent]

I honestly try to give them the benefit of the doubt. I know they have no clue what we go through, especially when we’re on call. I can see how they might see it being okay since we’re there anyways taking care of other sort of dental related stuff, might as well have my patient call them. I got pretty good at ending the conversations quickly, while also trying to get the point across to the patient that the call to me was somewhat inappropriate, hoping that the message would make it on to the ortho and perio residents.

I am a D4 and currently working on getting into ortho residency. This thread makes me so glad that my dental school makes us do 3 multi-week OS rotations where we go to the hospitals, go to the OR, scrub in, assist, work in clinic, and even have to do an on call overnight shift. We see what you guys go through. I watched a guy fall asleep while retracting during a flap surgery and the panic in his eyes when he woke up…I have only been at that level of fatigue a few times in my life but I do not envy that.

As an ortho resident or orthodontist I will never ever send a pokey wire to the on call OMFS resident 👀👀

 

[Xtract]

I am a D4 and currently working on getting into ortho residency. This thread makes me so glad that my dental school makes us do 3 multi-week OS rotations where we go to the hospitals, go to the OR, scrub in, assist, work in clinic, and even have to do an on call overnight shift. We see what you guys go through. I watched a guy fall asleep while retracting during a flap surgery and the panic in his eyes when he woke up…I have only been at that level of fatigue a few times in my life but I do not envy that.

As an ortho resident or orthodontist I will never ever send a pokey wire to the on call OMFS resident 👀👀

This is the right way to expose dental students to OMFS

 

[gryffindor]

I honestly try to give them the benefit of the doubt. I know they have no clue what we go through, especially when we’re on call. I can see how they might see it being okay since we’re there anyways taking care of other sort of dental related stuff, might as well have my patient call them. I got pretty good at ending the conversations quickly, while also trying to get the point across to the patient that the call to me was somewhat inappropriate, hoping that the message would make it on to the ortho and perio residents.

This is terrible. It's not OK, and the why it's not ok really should be part of their education. Treatment goals should include staying out of the ER.

 

[bergus95]

This is the right way to expose dental students to OMFS

In fairness Houston is busier than most programs

 

[DocMon16]

Just wanted to add to this, even though residency is very grueling and demanding, I am still loving it. There's something satisfying about pushing yourself to your limit everyday. If you're sure you love the field and cant imagine doing anything else, dont let the grueling residency scare you. Also, you can't take whats said at work personally, if you get roasted by attendings/seniors, just take it on the chin and move on

I agree with you, DDSER1 . Well said.

 

[Eli Manning]

I wish there was a way to truly inform dental students what oms residency is like. If it were possible, many of those struggling to decide between specialties would drop the idea of OMFS and be happier for it. Externships don’t even cut it, especially now that many are virtual. You may see a week of a program, but you don’t get any taste of what it’s like to have the pressure on you, persistent prolonged sleep deprivation, long stretches without food, no real break except for maybe one day off a week, being constantly belittled by attendings, etc. We have a few residents in our program who probably shouldn’t have chosen oms and they are miserable. Deep down miserable. I feel very bad for them. They are good people who’s lives have really taken a turn for the worse. They probably would have thrived in some other specialty. I’m all for personal responsibility, but it almost feels a bit unfair that they were sucked into this without a full picture of what it’s like, and unfortunately almost all incoming residents don’t truly understand what it will be like. There certainly is a dark side of residency that is hinted at but almost impossible to grasp until you are experiencing it.

If your goal of an island is strong enough to sustain you through 4-6 yrs of what would be considered a hostile work environment anywhere outside of medicine, then go for it.

the item highlighted above is important to be totally aware of. its not always the work that makes it hard. it's the environment that you are in for 4-6 years. if you can do it then go for it. i've had several friends from dental school who thought omfs was awesome, but did not want to go through the residency for this vey reason. obviously, residency is not forever and the end goal is worth it for many. but for those considering omfs they need to really understand that this is how residency is at the majority of training programs.