OMM After Graduation?????

[AustinFinklea]

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I know that OMM is becoming extinct with alot of docs after graduation: they just dont continue to use it in practices, especially those that specialize. I know that AOA Residencies and Internships have CE OMM classes that the docs are required to take as part of the program. Do you plan to use it? Why would someone not use it?? Comments Welcome!!!!!!!!👍

 

[jkhamlin]

I know that OMM is becoming extinct with alot of docs after graduation: they just dont continue to use it in practices, especially those that specialize. I know that AOA Residencies and Internships have CE OMM classes that the docs are required to take as part of the program. Do you plan to use it? Why would someone not use it?? Comments Welcome!!!!!!!!👍

I plan to use it. It works, and is useful. Why not use it? It is part of the reason I applied DO only. When I interviewed at OSU yesterday, they mentioned that they have research going on in their OMM rotation to demonstrate its usefulness. I even remember hearing a couple of years ago that one of their docs had been researching OMM to treat ear infections in children, reducing the need for the antibiotics that are being overused for this ailment.

 

[koennen]

I know that OMM is becoming extinct with alot of docs after graduation: they just dont continue to use it in practices, especially those that specialize. I know that AOA Residencies and Internships have CE OMM classes that the docs are required to take as part of the program. Do you plan to use it? Why would someone not use it?? Comments Welcome!!!!!!!!👍

My guesses:
1. Paucity of clinical trials establishing the efficacy of OMM
2. Perception that it has limited applicablity outside of FP
3. Certain aspects of OMM (i.e., "cranial") considered total BS by most DOs
4. Desire on part of some DOs to be mirror images of their MD colleagues

But, what the hell do I know ...

 

[Trevelyan]

Well, since at this very early point, I am leaning towards Family Practice, sure, I think would use it.

 

[Entgegen]

I know that OMM is becoming extinct with alot of docs after graduation: they just dont continue to use it in practices, especially those that specialize. I know that AOA Residencies and Internships have CE OMM classes that the docs are required to take as part of the program. Do you plan to use it? Why would someone not use it?? Comments Welcome!!!!!!!!👍

I would hope I use it...I originally wanted to be a chiropractor before I decided to be a DO. But even if you specialize, it would be a good tool to keep around; you never know when it might come in handy😀.

 

[koennen]

I would hope I use it...I originally wanted to be a chiropractor before I decided to be a DO. But even if you specialize, it would be a good tool to keep around; you never know when it might come in handy😀.

No pun intended ...

 

[It'sElectric]

I hope that I'm still proficient enough to use it on friends, family members, and even colleagues at the very least.

 

[Taus]

less grads going into primary care, PM&R is a small field, not tons of people doing sports med----> less people using OMM in practice (DO's have a huge presence in these fields though....)

However, outside of the office....how many times have you had friends, family, signif others, co-workers, etc complain about things like stiff neck, sore back, shoulder pain, etc etc....its nice to have a quick and effective tool for that besides your prescription pad...whether you're an oncologist or an OMM guru....

 

[Dr JPH]

My guesses:
1. Paucity of clinical trials establishing the efficacy of OMM

Not true. People dont actively search for these trials and articles so they assume they dont exist. If you search the literature you will find more studies on manual medicine than you can imagine. I posted about this in another thread.

2. Perception that it has limited applicablity outside of FP

True. Unfortunately this is a flawed perception. I recently gave a seminar on "OMT in the Surgical Patient." In fact, I have done more OMM on surgery, Ortho and OB/GYN rotations than Family and Medicine.

3. Certain aspects of OMM (i.e., "cranial") considered total BS by most DOs

True. Unfortunately all OMT gets lumped together. I tend to have a very orthopedic/musculoskeletal approach to OMT and to my patients that I treat with OMT. I am not a fan of cranial and have my own opinions on some other techniques.

Many use "cranial" as a convenient was to dismiss OMM altogether. "Well, OMM specialists use cranial so what do they know" attitude. Ignorant and poorly argued IMO.

4. Desire on part of some DOs to be mirror images of their MD colleagues

For some this may be true. You dont see it as often as some people may think

But, what the hell do I know ...

You may not be well versed on all the intricacies of the issues, but your observations are valid.

Good luck with interviews, BTW.


The biggest reason docs dont use OMM...they dont know how.

YES they learned it in school.
YES they were in lab when it was taught.
YES they had opportunity to use it on rotations.

They never took it seriously, they never practiced and they forgot.

While in medical school do you learn all the cardiology you will ever need to know? Not at all.

You need to continue reading and using that knowledge or you lose it.

Same with OMT. If you rely on what you remember from MS1 & MS2 without every picking up a journal article, book or attending a CME then NO, you wont know enough to safely and effectively treat your patients.

Number two reason...docs dont know how to bill for and get paid for OMT. Again...something you learn in the real world. We teach it here at PCOM but I guarantee the average 4th year student here doesnt know it. I do because I have done it and will continue to do it.

I plan on using OMT on my surgical patients. I certainly plan on using it on friends/family. Its a valuable tool, not the holy grail of medicine, but a treatment modality that when used appropriately can offer a great deal of relief to a great many patients.

 

[AustinFinklea]

Not true. People dont actively search for these trials and articles so they assume they dont exist. If you search the literature you will find more studies on manual medicine than you can imagine. I posted about this in another thread.



True. Unfortunately this is a flawed perception. I recently gave a seminar on "OMT in the Surgical Patient." In fact, I have done more OMM on surgery, Ortho and OB/GYN rotations than Family and Medicine.



True. Unfortunately all OMT gets lumped together. I tend to have a very orthopedic/musculoskeletal approach to OMT and to my patients that I treat with OMT. I am not a fan of cranial and have my own opinions on some other techniques.

Many use "cranial" as a convenient was to dismiss OMM altogether. "Well, OMM specialists use cranial so what do they know" attitude. Ignorant and poorly argued IMO.



For some this may be true. You dont see it as often as some people may think



You may not be well versed on all the intricacies of the issues, but your observations are valid.

Good luck with interviews, BTW.


The biggest reason docs dont use OMM...they dont know how.

YES they learned it in school.
YES they were in lab when it was taught.
YES they had opportunity to use it on rotations.

They never took it seriously, they never practiced and they forgot.

While in medical school do you learn all the cardiology you will ever need to know? Not at all.

You need to continue reading and using that knowledge or you lose it.

Same with OMT. If you rely on what you remember from MS1 & MS2 without every picking up a journal article, book or attending a CME then NO, you wont know enough to safely and effectively treat your patients.

Number two reason...docs dont know how to bill for and get paid for OMT. Again...something you learn in the real world. We teach it here at PCOM but I guarantee the average 4th year student here doesnt know it. I do because I have done it and will continue to do it.

I plan on using OMT on my surgical patients. I certainly plan on using it on friends/family. Its a valuable tool, not the holy grail of medicine, but a treatment modality that when used appropriately can offer a great deal of relief to a great many patients.

Well Said👍 👍

 

[DropkickMurphy]

That's why I like and respect JP. He can state his opinions without being condescending.

But no, I don't plan on using OMM after I get out of school (if I attend a DO school) except perhaps on friends and family.

 

[Super21]

Depends on the type of insurance the patient has. Good insurance=OMM, No Insurance= No OMM....

JUST JOKING PEOPLE!!! HAHAHA!!!! Ill use it!

 

[Dr JPH]

When I teach OMM lab I tell the students in my group...

"I will be honest. I don't care if you ever use this again, I don't care if you 'believe' in OMM, I don't care if you don't like this. It is my job to present the information to the best of my ability so that you can understand it and hopefully gain a treatment modality. But my #1 priority is to make sure that IF YOU DO use the techniques I teach that you can do it SAFELY and EFFECTIVELY so that you don't hurt the patient. Primum non nocerum."

That goes over pretty well and its 100% true.

I dont go on tirades when people tell me they dont 'believe' in OMM. I usually chuckle because I dont think theres something there NOT to believe in. But if people tell me they dont want to use it or have no interest, thats fine.

What DOES bother me is when people do try to use it and they dont know what they are doing...that can be dangerous.

What also bothers me is when you are an attending or professor at an osteopathic school and you dont know anything about OMM, dont know how to do OMM (if you are a DO clinician) or you badmouth OMM. That, I feel, is unprofessional and irresponsible.

I am amazed at the number of 'non believers' who make blanket statements like "Theres no OMM research to show that its effective" (which is untrue) and swear off OMM...and then they end up in my office at some point with back pain or neck pain. Trust me, it happens.

 

[Xoynx]

I've been a massage therapist for the past ten years. The main reason I'm becoming a physician is OMM. I've tried to limit the schools to which I'm applying to those that seem to truly value OMM.

 

[jkhamlin]

When I teach OMM lab I tell the students in my group...

"I will be honest. I don't care if you ever use this again, I don't care if you 'believe' in OMM, I don't care if you don't like this. It is my job to present the information to the best of my ability so that you can understand it and hopefully gain a treatment modality. But my #1 priority is to make sure that IF YOU DO use the techniques I teach that you can do it SAFELY and EFFECTIVELY so that you don't hurt the patient. Primum non nocerum."

That goes over pretty well and its 100% true.

I dont go on tirades when people tell me they dont 'believe' in OMM. I usually chuckle because I dont think theres something there NOT to believe in. But if people tell me they dont want to use it or have no interest, thats fine.

What DOES bother me is when people do try to use it and they dont know what they are doing...that can be dangerous.

What also bothers me is when you are an attending or professor at an osteopathic school and you dont know anything about OMM, dont know how to do OMM (if you are a DO clinician) or you badmouth OMM. That, I feel, is unprofessional and irresponsible.

I am amazed at the number of 'non believers' who make blanket statements like "Theres no OMM research to show that its effective" (which is untrue) and swear off OMM...and then they end up in my office at some point with back pain or neck pain. Trust me, it happens.

Personally I don't believe in antibiotics. I don't think I'll use them. 😀

 

[Old_Mil]

I know that OMM is becoming extinct with alot of docs after graduation: they just dont continue to use it in practices, especially those that specialize. I know that AOA Residencies and Internships have CE OMM classes that the docs are required to take as part of the program. Do you plan to use it? Why would someone not use it?? Comments Welcome!!!!!!!!👍

No, I don't plan to use it. For the most part, OMT is another "hoop" to jump through, sort of like Physics. Some of it has the same level of efficacy as a good massage. The rest of it is complete BS.

The way you get around the AOA and their CE requirements is to take USMLE I,II, and III and get boarded by the NBME. Then you can leave the AOA and their silly requirements behind for good.

 

[Xoynx]

No, I don't plan to use it. For the most part, OMT is another "hoop" to jump through, sort of like Physics. Some of it has the same level of efficacy as a good massage. The rest of it is complete BS.

That's funny--I've always thought of chemistry as a hoop that I have to jump thru (well, more like a dark, 4-foot-high cement tunnel with leaky pipes along the ceilings that runs from Reno to Edinburgh that I have to jog down) in order to become a DO.

Yes, OMT can be akin to a good massage, and as a LMT of 10 years, I have helped to end a whole lot of pain that medicine couldn't. What's your point?

 

[jkhamlin]

That's funny--I've always thought of chemistry as a hoop that I have to jump thru (well, more like a dark, 4-foot-high cement tunnel with leaky pipes along the ceilings that runs from Reno to Edinburgh that I have to jog down) in order to become a DO.

Yes, OMT can be akin to a good massage, and as a LMT of 10 years, I have helped to end a whole lot of pain that medicine couldn't. What's your point?

He's trolling, don't feed him.

 

[AustinFinklea]

That's funny--I've always thought of chemistry as a hoop that I have to jump thru (well, more like a dark, 4-foot-high cement tunnel with leaky pipes along the ceilings that runs from Reno to Edinburgh that I have to jog down) in order to become a DO.

Yes, OMT can be akin to a good massage, and as a LMT of 10 years, I have helped to end a whole lot of pain that medicine couldn't. What's your point?

There is just a tad bit more to OMT than being a LMT for ten years; one has to really know what they are doing. I dont imagine that 10 months of basic anatomy, yadayadayada.........is going to help anybody understand the scope of OMT. Give us some interesting (non-flaming) information as to why you (all of you) will or will not use it. Lets stop pretending that just because somebody has been a massage therapist for 10 or even 20 years, that they know what a well trained DO knows.................

 

[Xoynx]

There is just a tad bit more to OMT than being a LMT for ten years; one has to really know what they are doing. I dont imagine that 10 months of basic anatomy, yadayadayada.........is going to help anybody understand the scope of OMT. Give us some interesting (non-flaming) information as to why you (all of you) will or will not use it. Lets stop pretending that just because somebody has been a massage therapist for 10 or even 20 years, that they know what a well trained DO knows.................

Yes, OMT is not the same thing as MT. No one is pretending that it is. I'm getting into osteopathic medicine to learn amazing things that I don't yet know.

You, on the other hand, don't seem to have much respect for massage therapy, which puts you in the same category as MDs who look down on DOs.

 

[l3ig5lick]

chicks dig it... of course im going to use it!!! every one of the girls i work w/ at the office tell me i better pay real good attention during OMT class so i can come back and manipulate them 😉

 

[AustinFinklea]

Yes, OMT is not the same thing as MT. No one is pretending that it is. I'm getting into osteopathic medicine to learn amazing things that I don't yet know.

You, on the other hand, don't seem to have much respect for massage therapy, which puts you in the same category as MDs who look down on DOs.

Yo, I stand corrected. I am sorry. I totally misread your post dude. Accept deepest apologies..........😉

 

[Dr JPH]

chicks dig it.

There is no doubt about that. 👍