OMM for acid reflux/GI??

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sophiejane

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Okay, this may be a totally retarted question, but I am an MSI and as one of my second years said, ""MSI's don't know anything but glycolysis and how to ask, "so how does that make you feel, you know, emotionally?" "

...but here is my question...

Are there areny OMM techniques for acid reflux, or GI problems in general? Is there anything that can help? My mom is taking prilosec and it is really expensive, so I was wondering if there were any non-drug alternatives anyone knew about. She is already working on reducing the acid in her diet and trying not to stress about things.

Thanks.

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check for a somatic dysfunction T5-9 on the left side, then after proper diagnosing, treat the disorder using soft tissue techniques (direct myofacial release) or thoracic HVLA.

No one has been able to tell me if it is possible to tell where a somatic disorder came from (i.e. is somatovisveral or visceralsomatic). Most of the physicians respond, you can't tell if it's the somatic part causing the visceral or the visceral causing the somatic. So I guess you just restore homeostasis (alignment) as best you can using techniques and make sure she's on the proper diet (no more all-you-can-eat wing nights).

Thats as far as we've gotten as MSI's... Probably about 100 actual DO's are going to jump all over my response- *braces self* go easy -->MSI
 
Actually, you have it pretty much right on. I am only an MSII, but I know that T5-T9 is the right place to look and that fixing a dysfuntion there can potentially help the GI problems. HV/LA may be warranted, which you probably have not learned, but myofascial release and soft tissue should also help greatly.
 
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Originally posted by sophiejane
Okay, this may be a totally retarted question, but I am an MSI and as one of my second years said, ""MSI's don't know anything but glycolysis and how to ask, "so how does that make you feel, you know, emotionally?" "

...but here is my question...

Are there areny OMM techniques for acid reflux, or GI problems in general? Is there anything that can help? My mom is taking prilosec and it is really expensive, so I was wondering if there were any non-drug alternatives anyone knew about. She is already working on reducing the acid in her diet and trying not to stress about things.

Thanks.

There are several non pharmaceutical treatments available... some more effective than others... most are behavioral changes. Try raising the head of the bed 5-6". Don't drink liquids an hour or two before going to bed. Avoid certain foods.

AND GET AN ENDOSCOPY IF SYMPTOMS PERSIST AND HAVE FAILED MEDICAL TREATMENT!
Q, DO
 
I'll type up the Chapman's Reflex treatment we use here at our clinic. We have gotten about a 90 percent cure rate of GERD using it and we only count cures as people who are off their mediciation completely, taking less medicine doesn't count. We have people that are out 3 years now with no meds and they only have to come back for retreatment about once a year; some ont at all. So not too shabby.

The only problem is that you might not be able to palpate the points yet as a first year. It takes time, and not for the stars to line up like some say, but for you to develop the skill of touching. Like I said though, I'll type it up for you sometime tonight or tomorrow and send it to ya so you can give it a try or get someone else to try it out that is a little more experienced.

later!
 
Yes, diet and lifestyle modification are first line therapies for GERD. If those fail, and your mother does not take any other medication, she might try something like famotidine or ranitidine (beware of medication interactions with these though, they are actually more "dangerous" then prilosec in that sense). These drugs are H2 blockers, and provide effective symptomatic acid suppression in approximately 70% of patients, and they are cheaper the prilosec otc. They are not as effective as suppressing acid as drugs like prilosec, so she should ask her doctor before switching medication. Some 95% (ie over the 70% with H2 blockers) of patients should be obtain symptomatic relief with the PPI's (proton pump inhibitors like prilosec, nexium, protonix etc). Also, my understading is that prilosec has lost it's patent as well as going over the counter so she also should look for drugs with the active ingredient of "omeprazole". She doesn't have to pay for the brand name prilosec if there is another company making something with omeprazole. If your mother has a prescription plan that has less then a 20 dollar co-pay on brand name drugs, you also might suggest that she see her doctor and ask for script to a drug like protonix or nexium so that her insurance co can pay for it.
 
I tell ya I've taken all the PPIs and they are wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!! I absolutely love them. Of course I ran out of all my samples... but hopefully some of my colleagues who do outpatient work can snag me some. Indeed, they are expensive... but they have very few side effects and are VERY well tolerated.

Q, DO
 
Forget about OMM. Nissen fundoplication works.
 
Originally posted by JKDMed
OMM for acid reflux? Why not try snake oils and tribal dances?

OMM works.

Snake oils and tribal dances do not.




Is this the narrowminded attitude of allopathic students? Jeez...they will let ANYBODY into an MD school...

:D
 
lol JP

good responses...

well, *stares at class notes* these are worthless...
 
It could be that he's not an MD student but rather a drug company investor who loves to see people chained to their PPI's. lol

Or it could be that it's students who don't want to take the time to learn to be good. Still required that his students practice palpation for an hour each day. Fulford wrote that when he went to school his anatomy lab practicles were done partly by palaption only. The bone would be wraped in a large towel and the student had to tell what bone it was just by palpating it.

Do I practice palpating that much? Not even close. I spend about one hour a week doing nothing but sitting and palpating, the rest of the experience I get in lab or when I treat people. I would like to know how much time the doubters spend practicing? If none at all, then how can they say anthing? Oh well. Sometimes I wonder with over one hundred MD schools why they chose to come to the 20 DO schools we have. It's like getting ticked off that Christians don't have a statue of Buddah in their sanctuary, if you want that, go where Buddism is practiced. If you want Allopathic medicine, by all means don't dillute ours schools.
 
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There's that faint whiff of cultishness again. "So-and-so doesn't believe that OMM can treat Malady X? Well, no, I don't have any supporting studies at hand, but I've SEEN it, and if you haven't, you shouldn't say anything! In fact, you shouldn't even be in the profession!"

Just a tad on the hysterical side. I'm increasingly irritated by the fact that when challenged, OMM defenders almost never say, "Here's a study," and very rarely say, "Here are a few cases where I saw it work when conventional treatments failed." Invariably it ends up being, "It's an osteopathic principle! You shouldn't be here if you don't agree with it!"

By all means, bring on the evidence for OMM and acid reflux. Seems to me that it would be something amenable to structural correction. But it's a bit counterproductive going around comparing osteopathy to an alternative religion and complaining about these nasty people diluting our pure Still-blessed schools with their unwelcome skepticism.
 
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If you would read the entire thread you would see that in my first post I stated our clinic has a 90% cure rate for GERD using Chapmans and it will be published. Unfortuatly our school does not have a review board because our dean is scared that if we do research it will, "move the school away from our mission to primary care" and the hospital's review board doesn't meet, so it is being published in New Zealand. I don't have a case where traditional therapy wasn't working because PPI's work just fine, but they cost money and you have to take them every day as opposed to OMT which is just about one visit to the local osteopath once a year but it also hurts like crazy to have the treatment. So both work equally, it's just whatever you want to do.

Did I question this stuff at first, heck yeah but I also keep an open mind and wait to see if it will work. I guess you would say I don't approach Osteopathy as a zealous Atheist, but more like a hopeful Agnostic. If I see someone who I know is skilled perform it, and it works, then I believe it. I have seen many cases helped with this treatment so I have no problem with it.
 
Yes, I did read that part of the thread, and applaud it, and it will be wonderful when it's published and people are convinced. Regardless of the many unfortunate things keeping it from getting published in a respected refereed journal, I'm sure it will soon enough.

Until then, it's again counterproductive to tell the skeptics that they're diluting your schools with their allopathy, and that osteopathic medicine is to allopathic as buddhism is to Christianity. If you have a strong basis for your belief in the modality's usefulness, stick with that basis; it reinforces all the worst stereotypes of osteopathy when unpublished research is cited in tandem with screeds against the unbelievers.
 
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...all I was really hoping for was a way to save my mom some cash and get her a little relief from her GERD without popping somany pills.

No need to make this into another overblown argument about osteopathic principles.

Now chill, both of you, and go do some palpation on your girlfriends (or boyfriends)

:)
 
Ref,

I've great respect for the osteopathic tradition. I think it encompasses far more than OMM, and those who advertise osteopathy as "like a regular doctor, but iwth manipulation" are doing it a disservice. I find the osteopathic emphasis on what I think is better termed "frontier medicine" than primary care important and necessary.

AT Still was ahead of his time in arguing that every dysfunction is essentially mechanical, and he did pretty well with the tools he had. Now our tools are far more finely honed and many happen to be in pill form; I see no substantive difference between a drug and a manipulation; both are intended to correct or lessen structural defect.

With that said, it seems pretty clear that OMM is preferable to drugs in many instances, particularly when treating pain. There are some pretty good studies supporting this. However, there's a lot of baggage attached ot OMM that has absolutely no scientific validity.

The problem with OMM instruction is that those most attracted to it tend to be the least skeptical, and though a lack of skepticism is great for a faith, it's awful for a science. OMM fans have been more or less left to their own devices for the better part of a hundred years, and the result has been a lot of hypothesizing without a whole lot of testing. It's not that the testing isn't possible (though it may be more difficult), but who wants to conduct an expensive wide-ranging double-blinded study when mainstream medicine won't accept it anyway? This was the case for many, many years. Even very recently osteopathic physicians weren't allowed practice rights in certain major hospitals; they stuck to their own osteopathic hospitals and no one questioned their modes of treatment.

Anyway, sorry; I didn't intend a history lesson. The point is that every legitimate science has external pressures that force accountability. When something doesn't have those pressures, as great as the ideas may be, weaker ideas slip in and become part of the canon. The pressure becomes internal--those who don't agree with the canon are on THEIR side, aren't loyal to the cause, etc.

I'm not being at all flippant when I say that osteopathy displays cultish elements. All the signs are there:

A revered, almost mystical leader figure (I know of one school in which AT Still's giant head is built out of bricks in the wall of a building built around two OTHER Still-related buildings),

Hostility towards outsiders and criticism (see the "diluting our schools" comment above),

Mystical overtones (one of my first OMM labs was less lab than New Age seance),

Preference of anecdote over documentation (See which is easier--finding detailed instructions for a laparoscopic nephrectomy online or detailed instructions on HVLA and craniosacral. OMM has a disturbing aversion to simple, replicable, widely-distributed algorithms. Cf. scientology.)

etc. etc.

So, long story short, I think OMM has great utility, and it has a bright future as it's only recently that osteopathy has begun to gain widespread respect and recognition. As its visibility increases, I think the science will get better and the days of technique-by-rumor-and-tradition will end. We're not there yet, though, by a long shot, and the only way to get there is to call a spade a spade. Tradition's great and all, but when it gets in the way of science it becomes at best a hindrance, at worst an embarrassment to the profession.
 
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Originally posted by DOSouthpaw
Do I practice palpating that much? Not even close. I spend about one hour a week doing nothing but sitting and palpating, the rest of the experience I get in lab or when I treat people. I would like to know how much time the doubters spend practicing? If none at all, then how can they say anthing? Oh well. Sometimes I wonder with over one hundred MD schools why they chose to come to the 20 DO schools we have. It's like getting ticked off that Christians don't have a statue of Buddah in their sanctuary, if you want that, go where Buddism is practiced. If you want Allopathic medicine, by all means don't dillute ours schools.
:mad:
So, since I'm a DO, I should be spending MY *RARE* study time practicing my palpating skills, instead of reading my ATLS protocols, Emergency Medicine textbooks, and reading technical instructions on life-saving procedures, so that when you come into my ED, and you see "DO" on my labcoat, that you can be sure I made the most out of my osteopathic education?!

I hope that if you or your loved one, when they come into my Emergency Department, feel assured that I am offering them the best care possible in an emergent situation, because I prepared for YOUR situation by studying the necessary text, instead of sticking to the antiquated words of Still, and by keeping the DO profession "PURE."

Q, DO
 
I think the general idea is that if you were to take away the OMM, which no empirical evidence supports as being an effective treatment modality, you're left with an allopathic physician.

I'm not an MD student. I am applying to both MD and DO schools. I chose the schools to apply based on their locations, feedback about the students, and entrance statistics. I make no distinction between MD and DO, although I tend to agree with the holistic philosophy of osteopathy, but I don't think that is something only osteopaths can employ in their practice.

As far as OMM, I don't really know what to think. A lot of it seems like wishy-washy tradition only kept around so the DO's can keep their schools and not be gobbled up by the AMA. Show me some actual scientific evidence support OMM, not just, "I used it once on this guy and it relieved his problem", and maybe I'll look into it more.

Regardless, a hundred years from now when we're all dead, will people look back at the osteopaths and laugh hysterically?
 
Originally posted by JKDMed
Regardless, a hundred years from now when we're all dead, will people look back at the osteopaths and laugh hysterically?

Potentially...it depends on whether or not you get in;)
 
Originally posted by The_Gas_Man
Nice post, Quinn! As a D.O. anesthesiologist, you know how much OMM I use?...........right - NONE! And I went to the premier osteopathic medical school - KCOM.

Thanks. Where oh where is DO Southpaw?

Q, DO
 
You could try doing a suboccipital inhibition, MFR, and Cervical soft tissue. All of those techniques will alter the vagal tone and may help with her GERD. Anything you can do to relax the tissue surrounding the vagus and hopefully reduce the activity.
 
You could try doing a suboccipital inhibition, MFR, and Cervical soft tissue. All of those techniques will alter the vagal tone and may help with her GERD. Anything you can do to relax the tissue surrounding the vagus and hopefully reduce the activity.
I hope OP's mom is doing well 13 years later
 
Luke-

What is your position on osteopathy?

P.S. I disagree with your last post.

I know this post is 14 year old, but this is perfect example why people on this forum are dumb dinguses. OP just told you to stop discussing DO vs MD and you are still asking "what is you position on osteopathy"? WTF? Am I the only one who cares about rules here?
 
I know this post is 14 year old, but this is perfect example why people on this forum are dumb dinguses. OP just told you to stop discussing DO vs MD and you are still asking "what is you position on osteopathy"? WTF? Am I the only one who cares about rules here?
This thread is soo old that Roy Moore wouldnt Date it.
 
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