Omm/omt

[whirpooltech]

Hey I don't want to step on anyone's toes or anything, but in a hospital setting, say ER medicine, hospitalist, or anything really...when people graduate from DO school do they really use OMM/OMT or does it lose practicality and use after the fact? I can't tell the difference between the MD's and DO's at the hospital I work at....so I'm just wondering are the DO's still using there hands?

just curios and thanks a bunch!

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[Atom bum]

Hey I don't want to step on anyone's toes or anything, but in a hospital setting, say ER medicine, hospitalist, or anything really...when people graduate from DO school do they really use OMM/OMT or does it lose practicality and use after the fact? I can't tell the difference between the MD's and DO's at the hospital I work at....so I'm just wondering are the DO's still using there hands?

just curios and thanks a bunch!

I think this is a perfectly reasonable question, not sure why it would upset anyone. I have had the same experience myself. The DO I shadow and the DOs that work in the ER where I volunteer are indistinguishable from their MD counterparts. There are stats about this somewhere, and if I didn't have a test in the morning that I should be studying for right now I would look them up.

 

[radiodoc99]

Sure. Recent reports have shown that OMT reduces pneumonia in an inpatient setting. Many other articles can be found on the benefits of OMT in the hospital setting on JAOA.org or OsteopathicBoardReview.com
Family practice, PM&R and Sports Medicine use OMT the most in an inpatient setting. You will want to shadow a academic center with an OMT dept for getting the most exposure to OMT in the hospital. Generally docs round and have an OMM/NMM fellow with them.

 

[noshie]

When I was a scribe in the ER I worked with a DO. I asked him once why he didn’t use OMM to help patients that come in with problems that can be helped by it. He told me that because there weren’t many DOs in our ER, he felt like if he did use OMM the patients would come back when they had problems and want OMM but would not be able to get it if he wasn’t there. It made sense to me... He also told me that one day he planned on opening a small emergency clinic where he would use this technique.

 

[soos]

Hey I don't want to step on anyone's toes or anything, but in a hospital setting, say ER medicine, hospitalist, or anything really...when people graduate from DO school do they really use OMM/OMT or does it lose practicality and use after the fact? I can't tell the difference between the MD's and DO's at the hospital I work at....so I'm just wondering are the DO's still using there hands?

just curios and thanks a bunch!

It basically comes down to numbers, aproximately 70,000 DO doctors in the US today, 5% or so (3500 ) claim to use OMM, about 900 of those or 1.2 % are boarded in NMM so based on the numbers in the US its just very unique.due There is aso a bit of a predjudice that some DO's although trained in OMM , have lost their skill sets ( embarrassed maybe?? )
European models have committed to JUST OMM with very interesting outcome data. Imagine if it were even 10% of the docs

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

The DOs I've worked with did ACGME residencies and have "no idea how to use that OMM stuff." Their words. I think they also want to stay within their practice parameter. If they didn't learn it/use it in residency, then it just doesn't apply.

Also, most hospital billing companies may not include it in their billing structure. So, if you were to chart that you did it, you probably still wouldn't get paid for it. It would be a waste of time for the doctor because they're not making any money for their time spent. It sounds greedy but you'll see when you get there.

 

[cliquesh]

Also, most hospital billing companies may not include it in their billing structure.

Is that conjecture or do you know? I don't know either, so I'm just asking. One of my professors that works at a not very DO friendly place always rights orders for OMM, mainly just to piss everyone off, so I assumed if OMM is billable at this hostile place then it would be billable most places.

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

Is that conjecture or do you know? I don't know either, so I'm just asking. One of my professors that works at a not very DO friendly place always rights orders for OMM, mainly just to piss everyone off, so I assumed if OMM is billable at this hostile place then it would be billable most places.

Practice max is my hospital's billing co and they don't pay for it. I know these EM doctors can make a fortune from billing certain procedures but OMM is not on the list.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Hey I don't want to step on anyone's toes or anything, but in a hospital setting, say ER medicine, hospitalist, or anything really...when people graduate from DO school do they really use OMM/OMT or does it lose practicality and use after the fact? I can't tell the difference between the MD's and DO's at the hospital I work at....so I'm just wondering are the DO's still using there hands?

just curios and thanks a bunch!

I shadowed an ER doc that's a DO. He doesn't use OMM. His two reasons were that he wasn't that into OMM and he also said it's not practical in that type setting.

Since he went to an MD residency, I am curious though, do DO EM residencies even make use of OMM?

 

[cabinbuilder]

I use OMM every day in the office for those younger folks who tweaked their backs. Can fix most of them or at least improve the pain.

I have used OMM in the ER as well, although not as often. Mostly for new onset back pain and migraine headaches.

You have to learn how to bill it yourself. Most coders/billers don't know how to code for it. I bill massive amounts each week using OMM, it is just as good a moneymaker as any other procedure if you bill it correctly.

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

I use OMM every day in the office for those younger folks who tweaked their backs. Can fix most of them or at least improve the pain.

I have used OMM in the ER as well, although not as often. Mostly for new onset back pain and migraine headaches.

You have to learn how to bill it yourself. Most coders/billers don't know how to code for it. I bill massive amounts each week using OMM, it is just as good a moneymaker as any other procedure if you bill it correctly.

Just a quick question since I'm going to matriculate this fall. Do they teach you the business aspect of medicine? The billing/coding etc in med school? I didn't anticipate learning that stuff during residency. And since not everyone does a DO/MBA or MD/MBA, I wonder where this knowledge comes from. I've gotten a taste of it working in the hospital and feel pretty lucky about that. Thanks a lot!

 

[HealingDoc]

Just a quick question since I'm going to matriculate this fall. Do they teach you the business aspect of medicine? The billing/coding etc in med school? I didn't anticipate learning that stuff during residency. And since not everyone does a DO/MBA or MD/MBA, I wonder where this knowledge comes from. I've gotten a taste of it working in the hospital and feel pretty lucky about that. Thanks a lot!

I learned everything I need to know about billing/coding OMT from a few different people who became experts at it. You will probably have a couple professors at your school who can help you. Mainly what helped me was the fact that our SOAP notes at UAAO clinic and our student-run OMM community clinic had the correct somatic dysfunction diagnoses listed on them. We would circle the ones that applied- for example, somatic dysfunction cervical region, somatic dysfunction ribs/abdomen, and then we would indicate how many regions we treated. You are paid for how many regions you treat. Its actually pretty simple. Whether the insurance companies choose to actually pay you for it is another story. After learning how to do this, I did an OMM rotation and helped my preceptor do the charting/billing after the visits each day.

I also just went to convocation and there was a lecture with a brief refresher on this topic.

From her lecture, here is an idea of what the billing would look like for a sinusitis visit without OMT vs. with OMT.

No OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213 total billed- around $50, total for visit around $50

With OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213.25 total billed- around $50
2. Somatic dysfunction of head 739.0
3. Somatic dysfunction of the cervicals 739.1
4. Somatic dysfunction of the thoracics 739.2
code for #2-4 treating 3 regions is 99826 total billed Around $40
total for visit around $90

She filmed herself doing the regular sinusitis visit vs. the one with OMT. The one with OMT added only 51 seconds and she is effective because she performs OMT every day.

If you treat using OMT for 4 patients (1-2 regions is about $30) 5 days per week for 46 weeks, you can will have a little less than $30,000 billable charges annually that you can make on top of what you would have been paid otherwise. Of course you will not use OMT for all patients, but this is a good example of what can be accomplished with OMT billing.

Millicent King Channell, DO, MA gave this lecture.

 

[DrLeon]

I learned everything I need to know about billing/coding OMT from a few different people who became experts at it. You will probably have a couple professors at your school who can help you. Mainly what helped me was the fact that our SOAP notes at UAAO clinic and our student-run OMM community clinic had the correct somatic dysfunction diagnoses listed on them. We would circle the ones that applied- for example, somatic dysfunction cervical region, somatic dysfunction ribs/abdomen, and then we would indicate how many regions we treated. You are paid for how many regions you treat. Its actually pretty simple. Whether the insurance companies choose to actually pay you for it is another story. After learning how to do this, I did an OMM rotation and helped my preceptor do the charting/billing after the visits each day.

I also just went to convocation and there was a lecture with a brief refresher on this topic.

From her lecture, here is an idea of what the billing would look like for a sinusitis visit without OMT vs. with OMT.

No OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213 total billed- around $50, total for visit around $50

With OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213.25 total billed- around $50
2. Somatic dysfunction of head 739.0
3. Somatic dysfunction of the cervicals 739.1
4. Somatic dysfunction of the thoracics 739.2
code for #2-4 treating 3 regions is 99826 total billed Around $40
total for visit around $90

She filmed herself doing the regular sinusitis visit vs. the one with OMT. The one with OMT added only 51 seconds and she is effective because she performs OMT every day.

If you treat using OMT for 4 patients (1-2 regions is about $30) 5 days per week for 46 weeks, you can will have a little less than $30,000 billable charges annually that you can make on top of what you would have been paid otherwise. Of course you will not use OMT for all patients, but this is a good example of what can be accomplished with OMT billing.

Millicent King Channell, DO, MA gave this lecture.

Are you referring to Dr. Channell from UMDNJ-SOM?

 

[HealingDoc]

Are you referring to Dr. Channell from UMDNJ-SOM?

yes.

 

[slammer922]

I learned everything I need to know about billing/coding OMT from a few different people who became experts at it. You will probably have a couple professors at your school who can help you. Mainly what helped me was the fact that our SOAP notes at UAAO clinic and our student-run OMM community clinic had the correct somatic dysfunction diagnoses listed on them. We would circle the ones that applied- for example, somatic dysfunction cervical region, somatic dysfunction ribs/abdomen, and then we would indicate how many regions we treated. You are paid for how many regions you treat. Its actually pretty simple. Whether the insurance companies choose to actually pay you for it is another story. After learning how to do this, I did an OMM rotation and helped my preceptor do the charting/billing after the visits each day.

I also just went to convocation and there was a lecture with a brief refresher on this topic.

From her lecture, here is an idea of what the billing would look like for a sinusitis visit without OMT vs. with OMT.

No OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213 total billed- around $50, total for visit around $50

With OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213.25 total billed- around $50
2. Somatic dysfunction of head 739.0
3. Somatic dysfunction of the cervicals 739.1
4. Somatic dysfunction of the thoracics 739.2
code for #2-4 treating 3 regions is 99826 total billed Around $40
total for visit around $90

She filmed herself doing the regular sinusitis visit vs. the one with OMT. The one with OMT added only 51 seconds and she is effective because she performs OMT every day.

If you treat using OMT for 4 patients (1-2 regions is about $30) 5 days per week for 46 weeks, you can will have a little less than $30,000 billable charges annually that you can make on top of what you would have been paid otherwise. Of course you will not use OMT for all patients, but this is a good example of what can be accomplished with OMT billing.

Millicent King Channell, DO, MA gave this lecture.

great info!

 

[DuxburyPembroke]

I learned everything I need to know about billing/coding OMT from a few different people who became experts at it. You will probably have a couple professors at your school who can help you. Mainly what helped me was the fact that our SOAP notes at UAAO clinic and our student-run OMM community clinic had the correct somatic dysfunction diagnoses listed on them. We would circle the ones that applied- for example, somatic dysfunction cervical region, somatic dysfunction ribs/abdomen, and then we would indicate how many regions we treated. You are paid for how many regions you treat. Its actually pretty simple. Whether the insurance companies choose to actually pay you for it is another story. After learning how to do this, I did an OMM rotation and helped my preceptor do the charting/billing after the visits each day.

I also just went to convocation and there was a lecture with a brief refresher on this topic.

From her lecture, here is an idea of what the billing would look like for a sinusitis visit without OMT vs. with OMT.

No OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213 total billed- around $50, total for visit around $50

With OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213.25 total billed- around $50
2. Somatic dysfunction of head 739.0
3. Somatic dysfunction of the cervicals 739.1
4. Somatic dysfunction of the thoracics 739.2
code for #2-4 treating 3 regions is 99826 total billed Around $40
total for visit around $90

She filmed herself doing the regular sinusitis visit vs. the one with OMT. The one with OMT added only 51 seconds and she is effective because she performs OMT every day.

If you treat using OMT for 4 patients (1-2 regions is about $30) 5 days per week for 46 weeks, you can will have a little less than $30,000 billable charges annually that you can make on top of what you would have been paid otherwise. Of course you will not use OMT for all patients, but this is a good example of what can be accomplished with OMT billing.

Millicent King Channell, DO, MA gave this lecture.

So is the message for the people here "If you are not wealthy, choose an M.D.?" You know that patients with normal insurance have to pay up to their deductibles, and a percentage up to the next level of deductible, right? So if you are double-billing that patient for the sinusitis, they might not be able to come in the next time, or the time after that...

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I am actually curious how many insurance companies would deny the coverage? I know many insurance companies still don't pay for chiropractic or PT, so why would OMM be different?

 

[soos]

Practise max does not know what its doing.

 

[HM3]

It basically comes down to numbers, aproximately 70,000 DO doctors in the US today, 5% or so (3500 ) claim to use OMM, about 900 of those or 1.2 % are boarded in NMM so based on the numbers in the US its just very unique.due There is aso a bit of a predjudice that some DO's although trained in OMM , have lost their skill sets ( embarrassed maybe?? )
European models have committed to JUST OMM with very interesting outcome data. Imagine if it were even 10% of the docs

. Please point me to this survey.

 

[scpod]

I learned everything I need to know about billing/coding OMT from a few different people who became experts at it....No OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213 total billed- around $50, total for visit around $50

With OMT:
1. Bacterial Sinusitis 461.9, code 99213.25 total billed- around $50
2. Somatic dysfunction of head 739.0
3. Somatic dysfunction of the cervicals 739.1
4. Somatic dysfunction of the thoracics 739.2
code for #2-4 treating 3 regions is 99826 total billed Around $40
total for visit around $90....

Except you can't bill for OMT and a level three visit in the same day without using a 25 modifier... or it will come back unpaid. You also have to learn what documentation you need for a level three visit, the required number of elements on HPI, ROS, PE and documenting your medical decision making. Those kind of things you will learn in residency. If you word things wrong on an inpatient H&P, for example, you may be costing yourself $250. Do that a couple of times and you'll be visited by the "coding nazis."

 

[maral.morta]

I'm OMS I and need a tutor for some OMM/OMT concepts as I found them a bit difficult to grasp. I have some written questions that appreciate your input.

Thanks a lot
Maral