OMM side business

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MedPR

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Say you end up in a specialty that can't really utilize OMM. would you consider opening a clinic or something that was purely for OMM? I shadowed an OMM/FP and, jokes aside, the OMM sessions did seem alot like a chiropractic session.

Just wondering if anyone has considered it.

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Would that require additional certification in OMM/NMM? Even if a residency wasn't required, I would imagine it might require significant time devotion to continuing medical education. CME is a real drag on my mentor right now, I doubt he would want to add to that, but he isn't a big OMM guy anyhow.
 
i suppose you could but the problem is that if you like OMM enough to utilize it regularly, you can probably do well without the other stuff. i know the OMM clinic we have is a 2-3 month wait to get into as a new patient so doing it on the side looks like it could fill up fast. but then again, medicine is one of the those industries where you basically work as much as you want, so if you are a general surgeon, why not do more work there and make proportionally a much greater amount?
 
I learned the other day that you can't actually legally be referred patients for OMM unless you're board certified.

You can incorporate it into your practice, perhaps even run an OMM only practice, but if you want other docs to be able to refer cases to you you have to get the board cert.

Just an interesting aside that I learned.
 
I learned the other day that you can't actually legally be referred patients for OMM unless you're board certified.

You can incorporate it into your practice, perhaps even run an OMM only practice, but if you want other docs to be able to refer cases to you you have to get the board cert.

Just an interesting aside that I learned.

That is quite interesting. I don't think any other specialties are like that, are they? I mean, what if I have an endocrine disorder and there are no endocrinologists within a reasonable distance. Couldn't one internist refer me to another who had more interest/
experience with endo stuff?
 
That is quite interesting. I don't think any other specialties are like that, are they? I mean, what if I have an endocrine disorder and there are no endocrinologists within a reasonable distance. Couldn't one internist refer me to another who had more interest/
experience with endo stuff?

I'm not sure, and it could just be a local thing here. But that's what we were told in class, I'm still a little confused about it myself.
 
i suppose you could but the problem is that if you like OMM enough to utilize it regularly, you can probably do well without the other stuff. i know the OMM clinic we have is a 2-3 month wait to get into as a new patient so doing it on the side looks like it could fill up fast. but then again, medicine is one of the those industries where you basically work as much as you want, so if you are a general surgeon, why not do more work there and make proportionally a much greater amount?

Because general surgeons can't do more work without dipping into insanity. Per hour, they are paid lower than quite a many specialties.
 
I learned the other day that you can't actually legally be referred patients for OMM unless you're board certified.

You can incorporate it into your practice, perhaps even run an OMM only practice, but if you want other docs to be able to refer cases to you you have to get the board cert.

Just an interesting aside that I learned.

I'm surprised you can even do (and bill) OMM without being board certified 😱
 
I'm surprised you can even do (and bill) OMM without being board certified 😱

You can do any procedure in medicine by virtue of graduating medical school. That includes brain surgery. The only bottle-neck is reimbursement. Hopsitals and insurance panels won't certify/reimburse a dermatologist to do brain surgery. But if someone wants to pay a derm to operate on their brain, there's nothing illegal about it.
 
You can do any procedure in medicine by virtue of graduating medical school. That includes brain surgery. The only bottle-neck is reimbursement. Hopsitals and insurance panels won't certify/reimburse a dermatologist to do brain surgery. But if someone wants to pay a derm to operate on their brain, there's nothing illegal about it.

Doesn't that also mean he/she isn't licensed either?
 
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You can do any procedure in medicine by virtue of graduating medical school. That includes brain surgery. The only bottle-neck is reimbursement. Hopsitals and insurance panels won't certify/reimburse a dermatologist to do brain surgery. But if someone wants to pay a derm to operate on their brain, there's nothing illegal about it.

Did not know.
 
I'm surprised you can even do (and bill) OMM without being board certified 😱

Being a DO qualifies you to do OMM. I know at one hospital I rotated at, if I did OMM on a patient any DO attending could sign off on it and the hospital would be reimbursed. The attending could be with IM, pulm/crit care, nephrology, cardiology...it didnt matter as long as they were a DO. A signature from an MD attending would not count.

Also, every AOA family medicine residency graduate is dual board certified in family medicine and OMM.
 
Being a DO qualifies you to do OMM. I know at one hospital I rotated at, if I did OMM on a patient any DO attending could sign off on it and the hospital would be reimbursed. The attending could be a with IM, pulm/crit care, nephrology, cardiology...it didnt matter as long as they were a DO. A signature from an MD attending would not count.

What if the MD had done OMM CME?
 
I'm surprised you can even do (and bill) OMM without being board certified 😱

I'm not.

It's part of the skill-set that's supposed to be inherent in DO training. I was more surprised that you had to be board certified in OMM/NMM to take referrals if any DO is technically "qualified" to perform OMM.

It smells more like a self-preservation strategy on the part of OMM specialists, making sure that any and all referrals for OMM care go through them instead of the nearest DO FM doc who is willing to treat.

None of this matters much to me since I'm not interested in using OMM 99.9% of the time. And the fields I'm most interested in at the moment are such that OMM will have limited practical applications anyway. If I felt that one of my patients would benefit from OMM outside of what I felt like I could/wanted to offer them, I really don't care who does it as long as they are good at what they do.
 
I shadowed a DO and he told me about one of his mentors while he was in med school. This mentor charged per session at a cash only basis. This mentor makes $600,000 a year with his OMM clinic. I'd consider it lol.
I've heard this from other board certified OMM/NMM docs. They do the whole cash only thing and I hear that they make pretty good money doing it. But back to the original topic, I might do it... Like a lot of people have said there is a some OMM that makes sense and I enjoy it.
 
Say you end up in a specialty that can't really utilize OMM. would you consider opening a clinic or something that was purely for OMM? I shadowed an OMM/FP and, jokes aside, the OMM sessions did seem alot like a chiropractic session.

Just wondering if anyone has considered it.

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Did the patients ever say that they felt OMM helped or did they just thank the doctor for a massage?
 
I shadowed a DO and he told me about one of his mentors while he was in med school. This mentor charged per session at a cash only basis. This mentor makes $600,000 a year with his OMM clinic. I'd consider it lol.
I wonder what some lower income MDs must think of him...
 
I have heard quite a few times that DOs who open their own OMM clinic can make a lot of money, but I suspect that depends on the location. I live in Utah, and I dont know how well you would do out west. Not many people know/understand the difference between a DO and an MD (that DOs learn and can practice manipulation). They probably wouldn't know to look for an OMM clinic. So either you could make a lot of money being the only OMM clinic with a thousand miles, or you could barely make ends because no one knows what the blazes you do.

I am not much of a business man myself so i would say the risk would be too much for me without knowing more about how it works to start a practice, and what climate my area would have for such a practice.
 
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I'm not.

It's part of the skill-set that's supposed to be inherent in DO training.

So are all the things required for board certification.. That doesn't mean testing/licensing isn't required.

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So are all the things required for board certification.. That doesn't mean testing/licensing isn't required.

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You do understand that we're not talking about the COMLEX boards right?

We're talking about the specific OMM specialty boards.
 
You do understand that we're not talking about the COMLEX boards right?

We're talking about the specific OMM specialty boards.

Yes. Notice how I didn't say boards anywhere?

I said licensing.

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Yes. Notice how I didn't say boards anywhere?

I said licensing.

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Well all the skills required for board certification are not always part of a medical curriculum. You don't graduate med-school doing CABG procedures or brain tumor resection.

DO's do however graduate with the skill-set necessary to be proficient in OMM. And you do have to be licensed to practice medicine in order to legally perform it.
 
And you do have to be licensed to practice medicine in order to legally perform it.

You mean bill for it? One school has their students doing OMM on local athletic teams. I can't remember which school.

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You mean bill for it? One school has their students doing OMM on local athletic teams. I can't remember which school.

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I think DMU has students that volunteer to perform OMM after races and such. And I'm sure other schools have similar setups.
 
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You mean bill for it? One school has their students doing OMM on local athletic teams. I can't remember which school.

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I mean do it independently. Those students are working under the license of a physician. If a physician authorizes you, especially as a medical student, you can do anything. You just can't do anything solo until you have a license.
 
Say you end up in a specialty that can't really utilize OMM. would you consider opening a clinic or something that was purely for OMM? I shadowed an OMM/FP and, jokes aside, the OMM sessions did seem alot like a chiropractic session.

Just wondering if anyone has considered it.

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Not sure what you mean by, "all jokes aside, OMM seemed like chiropractic..." Lol, did that surprise you? Had you never seen or read up on both OMM and chiropractic manipulation a before then?

Incredulity aside, I've always considered OMM as a compliment to my future specialty or as a side business. The stuff does wonders for a lot of people and I enjoy the physical medicine aspect of the practice. lowering the amount (or need) of medication needed for some patients is a thumbs up to me.
 
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Not sure what you mean by, "all jokes aside, OMM seemed like chiropractic..." Lol, did that surprise you? Had you never seen or read up on both OMM and chiropractic manipulation a before then?

Incredulity aside, I've always considered OMM as a compliment to my future specialty or as a side business. The stuff does wonders for a lot of people and I enjoy the physical medicine aspect of the practice. lowering the amount (or need) of medication needed for some patients is a thumbs up to me.

I wasn't surprised, but people on here are sensitive about the comparison so I was trying to be clear that I wasn't making fun of OMM or trying to downgrade DOs.

You need to chill.
 
You mean bill for it? One school has their students doing OMM on local athletic teams. I can't remember which school.

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I interviewed at LMU and they were telling us that at their school games for basketball they would have students there to help if any need arise.
 
Would the Reimbursement rates for OMM and be considered chiropractic reimbursement rates? For insurance purposes?
 
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OMM might sound cool and all, but when you're actually learning it, it's more like "Da fuq am I doing?"

Speed bumps, potholes.. oh maybe there's something here, fuq it, Imma treat this even if it's not a dysfunction.

That's pretty much how most of my classmates feel when we're in OMM lab.
 
OMM might sound cool and all, but when you're actually learning it, it's more like "Da fuq am I doing?"

Speed bumps, potholes.. oh maybe there's something here, fuq it, Imma treat this even if it's not a dysfunction.

That's pretty much how most of my classmates feel when we're in OMM lab.

Hey, if someone can make some money on doing those procedures, idc how boring it is. I think it's a good buisness for someone in family med or internal wanting to make a few extra $$$. I mean, why not have OMM Fridays in the clinic lol?
 
Not sure what you mean by, "all jokes aside, OMM seemed like chiropractic..." Lol, did that surprise you? Had you never seen or read up on both OMM and chiropractic manipulation a before then?

Incredulity aside, I've always considered OMM as a compliment to my future specialty or as a side business. The stuff does wonders for a lot of people and I enjoy the physical medicine aspect of the practice. lowering the amount (or need) of medication needed for some patients is a thumbs up to me.

Umm... someone's a little defensive 😱

This is an interesting thread btw --- I had no idea some DOs actually did this OMM on the side thing, but it suppose it makes sense.
 
Umm... someone's a little defensive 😱

This is an interesting thread btw --- I had no idea some DOs actually did this OMM on the side thing, but it suppose it makes sense.

I don't know. I feel like OMM is a very specialized skillset that if you don't keep it up, you can lose it pretty damn quick. Which is why OMM is considered a specialty. Just because all DOs are trained in OMM does not make every DO proficient at it. But I guess if people are willing to pay you for it, why not.
 
What if the MD had done OMM CME?

I have a friend who is IM, an MD. She did the CME course given at MSUCOM for providers and she did basic techniques on patients and was able to bill for it.

The issue with being board certified only get sticky if you are billing insurance. There is nothing to say you can't to a cash only side business in OMM - I have another friend who did cash only.

FWIW: if you are DO board certified in FP then your cetificate also has OMM on it. SO mine says I am DO board certified in FP/OMM.
 
Would the Reimbursement rates for OMM and be considered chiropractic reimbursement rates? For insurance purposes?

Not necessarily. We DO's have our own procedure codes that bill for OMM. Most insurances will pay for a DO to do OMM but not a chiropractor to do the same thing - that patient would many times have to pay out of pocket.I think the DO rates are highrer.

Yes, many of the techniques are the same. Chiropractic medicine evolved after Osteopathic medicine when DO's were able to do more than just manipulation in the US.
 
Not sure what you mean by, "all jokes aside, OMM seemed like chiropractic..." Lol, did that surprise you? Had you never seen or read up on both OMM and chiropractic manipulation a before then?

Incredulity aside, I've always considered OMM as a compliment to my future specialty or as a side business. The stuff does wonders for a lot of people and I enjoy the physical medicine aspect of the practice. lowering the amount (or need) of medication needed for some patients is a thumbs up to me.

I wasn't surprised, but people on here are sensitive about the comparison so I was trying to be clear that I wasn't making fun of OMM or trying to downgrade DOs.

You need to chill.

Not sure why this came across as uptight or defensive. I was just laughing a bit because it seemed like, from your comment, that you had just now made the connection between OMM and chiro...did I mis-read your comment? Maybe.

But, that being said, youve been here long enough to know that Im not as overly protective of the DO degree to assume that I took offense in that way.

I am sincerely surprised that this was news to you...thats all, sport. 😉
 
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Something like what, 25% of DOs even use OMM in the field? It tends to be very specialty specific. I haven't seen the numbers on that in a couple years but that's what I remember. One of the big problems is reimbursement rates and the time crunch of Medicare/Medicaid. Thus, you see spinoff clinics that practice on a cash-only basis for those patients who want the treatment. As mentioned that is entirely location dependent - most blue collar folks are not going to pay for that care out of pocket.

Also, I doubt many subspecialists are going to practice OMM on the side. If anything they're just going to take more patients or do more procedures which, in the end, will pay more than any OMM work.

On the side topic, I've actually been surprised at the number of MDs I have seen use OMM techniques in the field. They've picked it up somewhere along the way and use it in day-to-day practice. Especially things like pedal pump, the negative pressure technique to expand the lungs which I can never remember the name of, million dollar knee, and the various treatments for tennis elbow, carpal tunnel, etc. I don't know if it's that MD schools have adapted teaching some of these techniques or if DO schools have adopted them from other specialties (see: PT). A lot of the direct techniques we've used are seen in locker and training rooms in sports facilities worldwide.

Truth be told - it seems to me that OMM tends to be a combination of PT and chiropractic care. It's absolutely nothing like either of them individually in many cases. Chiropractors tend to do mostly HVLA (in my experience as a patient) which, at most DO schools, is only covered in the second year. So there's a huge gap between the skillset of a chiropractor and a DO.
 
Not sure why this came across as uptight or defensive. I was just laughing a bit because it seemed like, from your comment, that you had just now made the connection between OMM and chiro...did I mis-read your comment? Maybe.

But, that being said, youve been here long enough to know that Im not as overly protective of the DO degree to assume that I took offense in that way.

I am sincerely surprised that this was news to you...thats all, sport. 😉

I wasn't the only one that recognized you had your panties in a bunch.
 
I wasn't the only one that recognized you had your panties in a bunch.

🙄

projection is an interesting phenomenon, no?



edit: but, if I came across as rude, or whatever, then I apologize. Again, it was simply funny that it seemed like that was your first time to make a connection between OMM and Chiro.
 
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A good friend of mine's parents (Both DO) are FP docs Mon - Wed and run their own "pain clinic" Thur - Sat". Only OMM is done at this clinic, and no meds are prescribed at the clinic. If they feel the pt needs meds they are referred to the family practice (double dipping, lol?)

They do reeeeeeal well.
 
A good friend of mine's parents (Both DO) are FP docs Mon - Wed and run their own "pain clinic" Thur - Sat". Only OMM is done at this clinic, and no meds are prescribed at the clinic. If they feel the pt needs meds they are referred to the family practice (double dipping, lol?)

They do reeeeeeal well.

This is what I would do if I ended up going into primary care. Smart business practice, maybe I should be taking some business classes now lol.

It also doesnt hurt that they can do twice as much work as one person. $$$
 
This is what I would do if I ended up going into primary care. Smart business practice, maybe I should be taking some business classes now lol.

It also doesnt hurt that they can do twice as much work as one person. $$$

As they're nearing retirement, selling the practice has become an option. It's my understanding that they've received a couple bids of >1.5 mil for their established practice (in michigan) by a couple groups.

Save up your money and buy their practice! :laugh:
 
A good friend of mine's parents (Both DO) are FP docs Mon - Wed and run their own "pain clinic" Thur - Sat". Only OMM is done at this clinic, and no meds are prescribed at the clinic. If they feel the pt needs meds they are referred to the family practice (double dipping, lol?)

They do reeeeeeal well.

👍

great business plan, but also great practice. Helping people avoid medication if possible, giving it when needed. And, maybe, making enough extra cheddar to feel even more motivated to do a little something for the underserved here and there??

I'd also do something similar if I were in PC.
 
With all that I have been hearing about OMM lately, I would consider practicing it a few days a week as a side thing. Just seems like a nice little income boost.
 
Another thought that might belong in this thread is the idea of a multi-professional partnership.

i.e. Private Ortho surgery practice that owns its own surgery and PT center(which is common), who adds a chiropractor (which exists now) and maybe then adds a couple OMM ninjas. While you're at it, throw in a dentist and spa (with massage, acupuncture, etc). its like a health mecca.

Synergy!!!!
 
Say you end up in a specialty that can't really utilize OMM. would you consider opening a clinic or something that was purely for OMM? I shadowed an OMM/FP and, jokes aside, the OMM sessions did seem alot like a chiropractic session.

Just wondering if anyone has considered it.

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MedPR. I think I have seen you post something in every single DO thread on here. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Side note: I would not consider opening a side practice for OMM.
 
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