OMM used to shield sexual abuse

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NontradCA

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Good news is I hear they go easy on child molesters in prison
 
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Been watching this case for a while, don’t ultimately think this will take that turn. While touch is an integral part to what is the Osteopathic doctoring, sports medicine itself a hands-on field.
 
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this Nassar thing is not good for D.O. reputation and OMM in general; and Michigan State is the highest academic ranked D.O. school there is
 
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OMM is no more a shield for sexual assault than a breast/pelvic exam or physical therapy for the pelvic floor or any other muscles near the groin. Christ even just auscultating the heart or checking PMI gives you the option to assault someone while painting it as a medical procedure if you wanted to.
 
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this Nassar thing is not good for D.O. reputation and OMM in general; and Michigan State is the highest academic ranked D.O. school there is
If I found an MD child molestor, would this be bad for MD reputation or is it just a child molestor that happens to be an MD?

 
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If I found an MD child molestor, would this be bad for MD reputation or is it just a child molestor that happens to be an MD?



The point he was making (that you either obliviously missed or intentionally ignored) is that that snippet makes the (obviously inflammatory) suggestion that there is little difference between the foundation of OMM/a DO’s teaching and sexual assault. Your “example” is bad, and I can only assume you struggled mightily with the analogy portions of the SAT.

I understand many of you have chips on your shoulders, but don’t get so trigger happy.
 
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OMM is no more a shield for sexual assault than a breast/pelvic exam or physical therapy for the pelvic floor or any other muscles near the groin. Christ even just auscultating the heart or checking PMI gives you the option to assault someone while painting it as a medical procedure if you wanted to.
Exactly. I had my marbles cupped as a kid for youth football physical. I was like, "is this for real? Where is an adult?"
 
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The point he was making (that you either obliviously missed or intentionally ignored) is that that snippet makes the (obviously inflammatory) suggestion that there is little difference between the foundation of OMM/a DO’s teaching and sexual assault. Your “example” is bad, and I can only assume you struggled mightily with the analogy portions of the SAT.

I understand many of you have chips on your shoulders, but don’t get so trigger happy.
He said "the nassar thing" made DOs/OMM look bad. He didn't say that Michigan State's commentary about OMM makes DOs/OMM look bad. In addition, we don't know what Michigan State was told about the treatments that were received. If this guy was molesting children, it's not outside the bounds of reason to think he lied to MSU and told them only about the legitimate treatments he was doing. We simply don't know what MSU knew.

Oh, and yeah, the whole "you're a DO. You got chip on shoulder. GOTCHA!" You really showed me with that one :claps:
 
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I'm truly and legitimately baffled as to how this guy could have survived the reports of sexual assault for so many years under the guise of medical care. I'm a bit ashamed to ask such a potentially naive question, but can anybody explain how his actions could have possibly ever been justified as medical???? Given the age ranges of his victims and the reports of his actions, I'm at a total loss.
 
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I'm truly and legitimately baffled as to how this guy could have survived the reports of sexual assault for so many years under the guise of medical care. I'm a bit ashamed to ask such a potentially naive question, but can anybody explain how his actions could have possibly ever been justified as medical???? Given the age ranges of his victims and the reports of his actions, I'm at a total loss.
I doubt anyone ever really investigated it. It was probably underreported and they just asked him for an explanation and took his word. The guy would have abused no matter what specialty he was, given the access to victims. I suspect that he used his OMM mostly as a means to gain access to young female athletes. He has a predators mind.
 
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I doubt anyone ever really investigated it. It was probably underreported and they just asked him for an explanation and took his word. The guy would have abused no matter what specialty he was, given the access to victims. I suspect that he used his OMM mostly as a means to gain access to young female athletes. He has a predators mind.

He digitally penetrated young girls. He was given the nickname "Crotch Doc" by the MSU volleyball team. These reports are so heinous that anyone who didn't order a full investigation should never be in leadership again.
 
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He digitally penetrated young girls. He was given the nickname "Crotch Doc" by the MSU volleyball team. These reports are so heinous that anyone who didn't order a full investigation should never be in leadership again.
bystander effect? No clue.
 
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He digitally penetrated young girls. He was given the nickname "Crotch Doc" by the MSU volleyball team. These reports are so heinous that anyone who didn't order a full investigation should never be in leadership again.
There is a pelvic floor release omm technique and something that might be considered for back pain. Maybe the bonewizards can chime in. I can see lay people not understanding the difference.
 
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OMM is no more a shield for sexual assault than a breast/pelvic exam or physical therapy for the pelvic floor or any other muscles near the groin. Christ even just auscultating the heart or checking PMI gives you the option to assault someone while painting it as a medical procedure if you wanted to.
Please point me to a case where a school/hospital dismissed sexual assault accusations because the victim didn’t “understand” the nuance Breast/pelvic exam.
 
I'm a DO. I use that to preface that I NEVER understood the point of some of these techniques. Digital pelvic release, ischial spread... No evidence of efficacy, BOATLOAD of risk of impropriety. No reason for these at all. We laugh at cranial, why isn't this just excluded. The funny thing is I doubt AOA will recommend removal from the curriculum even considering the current climate.

I have a chaperone for ALL exams. This stuff is just nutty
 
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I'm a DO. I use that to preface that I NEVER understood the point of some of these techniques. Digital pelvic release, ischial spread... No evidence of efficacy, BOATLOAD of risk of impropriety. No reason for these at all. We laugh at cranial, why isn't this just excluded. The funny thing is I doubt AOA will recommend removal from the curriculum even considering the current climate.

I have a chaperone for ALL exams. This stuff is just nutty

This is very helpful and it helped me find this article which is much clearer about the circumstances (although it’s almost a year old so the judicial results are outdated):

What was portrayed as medical treatment, alleged victims claim is sexual assault
 
This is very helpful and it helped me find this article which is much clearer about the circumstances (although it’s almost a year old so the judicial results are outdated):

What was portrayed as medical treatment, alleged victims claim is sexual assault
"Authors Elizabeth Anne Pastore and Wendy B. Katzman wrote that internal muscle assessment involves a practitioner using a glove to avoid contamination and palpitating a woman's pelvic floor. Initial entry may be painful, the authors note, and doctors should prepare the woman with what to expect, maintain eye contact with the patient, and use lubricant to ease the patient's discomfort."
I dont know why i found that funny.
 
"Authors Elizabeth Anne Pastore and Wendy B. Katzman wrote that internal muscle assessment involves a practitioner using a glove to avoid contamination and palpitating a woman's pelvic floor. Initial entry may be painful, the authors note, and doctors should prepare the woman with what to expect, maintain eye contact with the patient, and use lubricant to ease the patient's discomfort."
I dont know why i found that funny.
That's awkward af...when we are taught the pelvic at my school (MD), we are told to depress the drape to allow eye contact too. I think it is to be able to read non-verbal cues. That said, the whole "maintain" makes it sound like you are just staring at them the whole time which is creepy lol. There might very well be a reason for this, but it's still super awkward for both parties haha
 
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That's awkward af...when we are taught the pelvic at my school (MD), we are told to depress the drape to allow eye contact too. I think it is to be able to read non-verbal cues. That said, the whole "maintain" makes it sound like you are just staring at them the whole time which is creepy lol. There might very well be a reason for this, but it's still super awkward for both parties haha
creepy-stare-cage.jpg
 
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I wonder during the pelvis procedures if those girls ever told Nassar to "stop", and he still keep doing it? because that would be considered "battery" or "rape" by definition
 
I wonder during the pelvis procedures if those girls ever told Nassar to "stop", and he still keep doing it? because that would be considered "battery" or "rape" by definition

He performed the procedures without consent. There’s no grey area.
 
Sounds like this doctors was just trying to ease his patients hysteria.
Pelvic-Massage.jpg
 
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Please point me to a case where a school/hospital dismissed sexual assault accusations because the victim didn’t “understand” the nuance Breast/pelvic exam.
That has nothing to do with OMM as a practice and everything to do with the school covering for itself. My own hospital had an ED attending (MD, not DO) get away with fondling the breasts of multiple women and he was able to get away with it because the patients all probably had the same type of thought - that no one would believe them or that they weren't sure if what the doc was doing was wrong. He only got caught because he ejaculated on a patient he thought was unconscious but wasn't.

Source: Former Mt. Sinai Doctor Charged With Sexually Abusing 4 Women

There's a famous PT group in Manhattan for pelvic floor stuff and they are routinely sticking their fingers in people's vaginas and rectums. It would be extremely easy for them to stand behind a perpetrator and suggest the patients don't undertstand how the PT is done.
 
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I honestly don’t understand the point of emphasizing the OMM part of this post. He was certified in kinesiology and underwent a fellowship in sports medicine. At that point physical manipulation is manipulation with a ton of crossover between OMM and mainstream techniques; most of OMM is just stretching and inhibitory muscle techniques anyways. I didn’t even know he was a DO until it was mentioned here and I read the article in more depth.

As for someone above who asked about use of the more invasive techniques, just like with pelvic exams there should always be a chaperone if clothes are off, then docs like this can’t even claim that there was any misunderstanding.
 
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DO student here.

Two things: The public doesn't know **** about his degree, every headline reads "Olympic Sports doctor." Second, the dude did all this without explaining to them what he was doing?? What doctor does that?

We've never been taught anything that has been described in the article, but we're taught from day 1 if we do not have explicit consent to perform a OMM technique you simply don't do it. A HUGE part of that informed consent is the patient fully understanding the procedure, which clearly wasn't the case here.

It's a shame too, because sports med is probably one of (if not the only) discipline where OMM can be super useful.
 
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I can’t find the threads, but before this hit the news, I think one of his victims was on the DO forums asking if their experience was real OMM.

Seriously though this dude was a grade-A creep.
 
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It's a shame too, because sports med is probably one of (if not the only) discipline where OMM can be super useful.
And PM&R, but my understanding is most of them don't even use it.

You know what's funny? My school had an (optional) lecture on OMM for dermatology
 
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And PM&R, but my understanding is most of them don't even use it.

You know what's funny? My school had an (optional) lecture on OMM for dermatology

That makes sense. I see so many DO's in PMR residencies that never take DOs.
 
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OMM is fake medicine and always is harassment
 
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There is a pelvic floor release omm technique and something that might be considered for back pain. Maybe the bonewizards can chime in. I can see lay people not understanding the difference.

 
you guys are so clueless about D.O. What Nassar did was wrong but there are legitimate OMM pelvis treatments as the above video demonstrated
We have very different definitions of the word "legitimate" .
 
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One of the comments under that youtube video:

I have an old injury on my vagina wall and been having spasm for years. I have followed your exercise and within just few exercises I have had dramatic result. But havent been able to fully recover. What would you recommend to do? Continue on this treatment or perhaps any other poses? Thank you.

Posted by a user with a high resolution image of her face as an avatar and what appears to be her real full name for all the world to see. Not much concern for privacy lol. She's cute though, so there's that.
 
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One of the comments under that youtube video:



Posted by a user with a high resolution image of her face as an avatar and what appears to be her real full name for all the world to see. Not much concern for privacy lol. She's cute though, so there's that.

That was my next question.
 
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OMM is fake medicine and always is harassment

If you mean that it doesn't have extensive and rigorous scientific studies behind them, then there is plenty of that in medicine as a whole, not just regarding OMM. Especially in areas like pain management. Not saying there aren't areas of OMM that aren't total BS, but I wouldn't write off the field completely.

Regardless of your stances on OMM, the implications of the article are a joke and stating that there's "a nuanced difference between OMM and sexual assault" shows a complete lack of understanding of medicine in general.
 
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I am disturbed that he was able to convince anyone that his sexual abuse was a medical treatment. Is that an OMM issue, or is it an excuse used by a serial predator? Either way, it hurts MSU and the validity of DO. Glad to see the president is stepping down.
 
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I am disturbed that he was able to convince anyone that his sexual abuse was a medical treatment. Is that an OMM issue, or is it an excuse used by a serial predator? Either way, it hurts MSU and the validity of DO. Glad to see the president is stepping down.

Excuse used by a serial predator. The same situation could be used by someone performing pelvic or breast exams and both are performed by MDs and DOs alike. OMM does not encourage such behavior in any way, why any reasonable/educated person would think this is related to OMM/DOs as a whole or think this guy isn't an outlier is beyond me.
 
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