OMS1 ranked at the bottom of my class, should I give up on competitive residencies like Ortho?

[Brahventus]

I know mostly boards matter but is it even still doable to match DO orthopedics or any other competitive residency in the same caliber? This is my rank from my first semester, so I'm not sure how possible is it to bring it up to be at least top 50% by the time I apply to residency. Anyone had this experience?

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[Goro]

On the whole, we've found that our students get out of medical school what they put into medical school, and class rank is closely tied to Board performance. I've also seen students come from behind to do very well, and one of our all-time worst students ever managed to get into Anesthesiology. He's probably killing patients right now somewhere in the Northwest.

But rather than worry about what specialty you'll match into, try fixing whatever it is that putting you at the bottom of your Class.

I know mostly boards matter but is it even still doable to match DO orthopedics or any other competitive residency in the same caliber? This is my rank from my first semester, so I'm not sure how possible is it to bring it up to be at least top 50% by the time I apply to residency. Anyone had this experience?

 

[Brahventus]

On the whole, we've found that our students get out of medical school what they put into medical school, and class rank is closely tied to Board performance. I've also seen students come from behind to do very well, and one of our all-time worst students ever managed to get into Anesthesiology. He's probably killing patients right now somewhere in the Northwest.

But rather than worry about what specialty you'll match into, try fixing whatever it is that putting you at the bottom of your Class.

It was basically me having a hard time adapting to medical school. It took me the whole semester to start scoring the average. I didn't think I did as bad as I did (I made mid to high Cs and I know people that failed) but I'm literally in the bottom 5 people in my class. If I continue to do average, or maybe even above average here on out, whats the possibility of being in the top 25% by the time I try to match?

 

[gators21]

It was basically me having a hard time adapting to medical school. It took me the whole semester to start scoring the average. I didn't think I did as bad as I did (I made mid to high Cs and I know people that failed) but I'm literally in the bottom 5 people in my class. If I continue to do average, or maybe even above average here on out, whats the possibility of being in the top 25% by the time I try to match?

You are in the bottom 5 of your class, then ask if by doing average to above average will get you into the top 25%? Statistics really isn't your strong suit is it?

 

[Mad Jack]

It was basically me having a hard time adapting to medical school. It took me the whole semester to start scoring the average. I didn't think I did as bad as I did (I made mid to high Cs and I know people that failed) but I'm literally in the bottom 5 people in my class. If I continue to do average, or maybe even above average here on out, whats the possibility of being in the top 25% by the time I try to match?

A DO that recently matched MD ophtho was right around the 50th percentile of his class. Class rank is far less important than your board scores and research when it comes to matching competitive specialties.

 

[DopaDO]

Class rank is one of the least important things to residency directors. Forget about your grades and just focus on passing. Do well on the steps/comlex and you have a great shot.

 

[Mehd School]

one of our all-time worst students ever managed to get into Anesthesiology. He's probably killing patients right now somewhere in the Northwest.

This is absolutely hilarious coming from a faculty member. Thank you for this.

 

[Brahventus]

.

 

[Brahventus]

You are in the bottom 5 of your class, then ask if by doing average to above average will get you into the top 25%? Statistics really isn't your strong suit is it?

Well what is the realistic end point for me, rank wise, if I do turn things around?

 

[hallowmann]

Well what is the realistic end point for me, rank wise, if I do turn things around?

It really depends on where the class average is and how well the top quartile is doing. If the average is like 90%, getting a bunch of 95s might not make a huge difference if you're at 75% right now. That said, I think you could easily make it into the top 50%, which is really where you need to be.

My class average is closer to 82-83%, and ~3/4 of the class are in the B range (most from 80-86%), so getting consistent A's would push you up to the top pretty quick, but that's virtually impossible here, literally something only the top 10-15% can do.

 

[Shinobiz11]

This is absolutely hilarious coming from a faculty member. Thank you for this.

I'd love to see his LOR's

 

[costales]

I'd love to see his LOR's

"Will make a great resident. Hasn't killed anyone yet."

 

[saudades]

I'm allopathic 4th year (but been in school 5 years due to medical leave) so I'm responding more to your question in the allo forum. I will say up front that a fair amount of my med school experience was a train wreck (various reasons, many of them my fault) and I did NOT crush the boards. But I can tell you what I really WISH I'd done now that I'm nearing the finish line. Most of it is along the lines of what @witzelsucht said, although I don't think I personally would've been able to go quite so hardcore. Most important thing to do, which I didn't until way too late, is get your head in the game and take care of yourself. At this stage, worry about doing your best now, not what's going to happen years down the road.

See a doc or therapist if you need to. Trust me, a LOT more of your classmates than you might think are doing this. Don't drink--ever since I quit I'm AMAZED at how much better I feel all around. Clean up your diet if you need to. Exercise (I went running several days a week after class, it's free and a good opportunity to listen to music). I agree to get up early, but I think giving yourself one day to sleep in and relax would help avoid burnout. Also, don't isolate yourself--hang out with your friends when you can, within reason, of course.

As far as specific resources to use, I honestly don't really remember anything other than Uworld and Pathoma so I can't give advice, but learn actively (hand write things, draw diagrams, whatever helps you). I agree to start Uworld in the first semester and copy down the important stuff in the answers by hand, and then maybe add a second resource later on (again, idk which is best). Not sure long your summer break is, but if it's the typical 2 months or so, take the first several weeks to decompress. Take a vacation, go home, whatever. Towards the end of the summer start doing some light prep for 2nd year but don't psych yourself out. Talk to some of the upperclassmen to get their advice about specifics.

Again, I'm no role model and this is only what I wish I'd done from the beginning. Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think this would have steered me in a good direction. As far as matching into specific residencies or moving up in rank a certain amount, I have no idea what's realistic. But I don't think you should "give up" on anything just yet. Don't limit yourself.

 

[SurgeDO]

no. it means you should get your **** together and start ****ing **** up.

 

[shibby1111]

at my school one of the people who barely passed his courses got one of the highest board scores. it's because he studied and prepared well for the boards, passing his classes was just a corollary. class is stupid and most professors are dumb compared to most medical students in terms of organization and efficiency skills.

 

[user3]

at my school one of the people who barely passed his courses got one of the highest board scores. it's because he studied and prepared well for the boards, passing his classes was just a corollary. class is stupid and most professors are dumb compared to most medical students in terms of organization and efficiency skills.

agree

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

class is stupid and most professors are dumb compared to most medical students in terms of organization and efficiency skills.

lmao !

have you ever thought that maybe youre just a high-yield hunter while these physicians and PhD's have maximum understanding of the subjects at hand and want to teach you to become a good doctor not a merely good USMLE taker?

 

[Dr. Zombie]

lmao !

have you ever thought that maybe youre just a high-yield hunter while these physicians and PhD's have maximum understanding of the subjects at hand and want to teach you to become a good doctor not a merely good USMLE taker?

You learn to be a good doctor the more you progress through medical school and residency and less so pre-clinical years.

The content in USMLE is probably the most you'll remember anyways by the time you start rotations.

 

[shibby1111]

lmao !

have you ever thought that maybe youre just a high-yield hunter while these physicians and PhD's have maximum understanding of the subjects at hand and want to teach you to become a good doctor not a merely good USMLE taker?

uh yeah. the 1000s of things they learned deep in their own PhD studies, the crap I'm not going to remember or the crap no one else has even heard about, are not going to help me. I'm not in medical school to learn about the intricacies in the amino acid sequence and thermodynamic alterations in an inconsequential enzyme tyrosine-transcarbamoylase when it has a cystine rather than glutamine at position 32. there is a lot of stuff i need to know in order to be a good physician and i don't have time for that crap. And yes, I am a high yield hunter as well as a medium yield hunter.

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

You learn to be a good doctor the more you progress through medical school and residency and less so pre-clinical years.

The content in USMLE is probably the most you'll remember anyways by the time you start rotations.

uh yeah. the 1000s of things they learned deep in their own PhD studies, the crap I'm not going to remember or the crap no one else has even heard about, are not going to help me. I'm not in medical school to learn about the intricacies in the amino acid sequence and thermodynamic alterations in an inconsequential enzyme tyrosine-transcarbamoylase when it has a cystine rather than glutamine at position 32. there is a lot of stuff i need to know in order to be a good physician and i don't have time for that crap. And yes, I am a high yield hunter as well as a medium yield hunter.

So would you guys rather US medical schools teach pre-clinical years like the Caribbean schools - one giant board review course with a bunch of high and medium yield USMLE material?

 

[Dr. Zombie]

So would you guys rather US medical schools teach pre-clinical years like the Caribbean schools - one giant board review course with a bunch of high and medium yield USMLE material?

When you matriculate into medical school, you'll understand better what we mean in regards to pre-clinical years.

 

[shibby1111]

So would you guys rather US medical schools teach pre-clinical years like the Caribbean schools - one giant board review course with a bunch of high and medium yield USMLE material?

lol. that's what medical school is....
let me guess, you've been recently accepted to medical school, switched your status to medical student, despite having not yet experienced what med school is.

 

[shibby1111]

medical school is a giant step 1 review course. it could easily be just a series of online classes with periodic attendance on a regional campus for labs and skills stuff. kaplan/devry/itt-tech/phoenix college of medicine would totally work.

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

I am a second year....lol

I can't believe what I'm reading
I get that the usmle material is highly relevant, bit that's not all what medical school is

I agree with the online part as long as the lecturers are good. My school uploads all lectures and i hvent been to class since maybe the first month of first year

 

[Dr. Zombie]

I am a second year....lol

I can't believe what I'm reading
I get that the usmle material is highly relevant, bit that's not all what medical school is

I agree with the online part as long as the lecturers are good. My school uploads all lectures and i hvent been to class since maybe the first month of first year

Please explain how the nitty-bitty details Ph.D's like to emphasize (because it was what was taught and demanded of them for their Ph.D.) are supposed to make us--clinicians--better? This is excluding MD/DO, PhD dual-degree students.

 

[hallowmann]

I am a second year....lol

I can't believe what I'm reading
I get that the usmle material is highly relevant, bit that's not all what medical school is

I agree with the online part as long as the lecturers are good. My school uploads all lectures and i hvent been to class since maybe the first month of first year

Dude, to be fair the high and medium yield stuff for the USMLE is basically everything in the medical textbooks. It may not be as thoroughly explained, it may not be the n-th detail (which most of the time has nothing to do with clinical stuff), but realistically it is what is taught in almost all of med school. There are some other things, but those are also things people learn in 3rd and 4th year (hopefully).

ps. CO17 fo life

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

Dude, to be fair the high and medium yield stuff for the USMLE is basically everything in the medical textbooks. It may not be as thoroughly explained, it may not be the n-th detail (which most of the time has nothing to do with clinical stuff), but realistically it is what is taught in almost all of med school. There are some other things, but those are also things people learn in 3rd and 4th year (hopefully).

ps. CO17 fo life

I dont know - from the textbooks Ive read and the USMLE preparation Ive been doing, the scope of medical textbooks (and lectures) is significantly wider and more in-depth than USMLE. I agree that the lectures shouldnt raelly have a wider scope than medical texts though.

I dont know too mch about other people's schools, and I agree that if a PhD starts dissecting the thermodynamics of a bunch of reactions at the expense of the meat and potatoes it's kind of a waste of time (but the original posts said most professors - if most professors are doing this then that school should be flagged), but my school lectures include many relevant things not probably tested on the USMLE/low-yield and sometimes goes into more depth. The USMLE can't test everything. And the fact of the matter is that clinicians will teach the pearls theyve picked up over the years. Surgeons will tell you more detailed clinical anatomy that would never be on the USMLE. PhD's might tell you some facts on the academic side of things. Things educational institutes producing doctors for decades and centuries think is valuable to learn.

High school doesnt teach you to ace the SAT. College doesnt primarily teach you to ace the MCAT. Medical school doesnt primarily teach you to ace the USMLE, and residency doesnt primarily teach you to ace the respective board exam.

On the other hand, Caribbean schools , from what ive heard, teach basically to pass the USMLE. If that's a good model to follow - well that's for the individual to decide. But, I'll take my chances with schools in the country with top tertiary education in the world.

CO2017 4 lyfe

 

[DopaDO]

So would you guys rather US medical schools teach pre-clinical years like the Caribbean schools - one giant board review course with a bunch of high and medium yield USMLE material?

I dont know - from the textbooks Ive read and the USMLE preparation Ive been doing, the scope of medical textbooks (and lectures) is significantly wider and more in-depth than USMLE. I agree that the lectures shouldnt raelly have a wider scope than medical texts though.

I dont know too mch about other people's schools, and I agree that if a PhD starts dissecting the thermodynamics of a bunch of reactions at the expense of the meat and potatoes it's kind of a waste of time (but the original posts said most professors - if most professors are doing this then that school should be flagged), but my school lectures include many relevant things not probably tested on the USMLE/low-yield and sometimes goes into more depth. The USMLE can't test everything. And the fact of the matter is that clinicians will teach the pearls theyve picked up over the years. Surgeons will tell you more detailed clinical anatomy that would never be on the USMLE. PhD's might tell you some facts on the academic side of things. Things educational institutes producing doctors for decades and centuries think is valuable to learn.

High school doesnt teach you to ace the SAT. College doesnt primarily teach you to ace the MCAT. Medical school doesnt primarily teach you to ace the USMLE, and residency doesnt primarily teach you to ace the respective board exam.

On the other hand, Caribbean schools , from what ive heard, teach basically to pass the USMLE. If that's a good model to follow - well that's for the individual to decide. But, I'll take my chances with schools in the country with top tertiary education in the world.

CO2017 4 lyfe

You become a physician in medical school, but you dont learn to be a physician until residency. Your absolute focus in medical school should be twofold - figuring out what you want to do and then matching into your desired residency position. First two years should be all about Step/Comlex. 3rd and 4th year you should develop a few competencies - taking a good history and presenting a patient. Aside from this, do everything you can to make yourself the best residency applicant you can be, not the best physician - this comes in residency

 

[Dr. Zombie]

You become a physician in medical school, but you dont learn to be a physician until residency. Your absolute focus in medical school should be twofold - figuring out what you want to do and then matching into your desired residency position. First two years should be all about Step/Comlex. 3rd and 4th year you should develop a few competencies - taking a good history and presenting a patient. Aside from this, do everything you can to make yourself the best residency applicant you can be, not the best physician - this comes in residency

Finally someone who agrees with me.