on interviews do they pretend to like you so u will rank them high?

[p54]

I've been on a few interview now and most of them have gone pretty well. On my last two I think I did awesome. I seemed to click with all the residents i interacted with, and all the faculty members that I interviewed with really seemed to like me.

My question is, do they pretend to like everyone and try to fool all the applicants into thinking that they(the program) really likes them and will rank them high? Do they do this just so everyone will rank their program high?
Just the other day I received a email from one of the faculty i interviewed with just "saying hello"

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[rugtrousers]

Come on, really now. The people who interview us have better things to do with their time than "say hello" to every applicant, and I don't think they do a lot of pretending. If you think they liked you, then they liked you. The question is whether the want you to train at their program, and that you won't find out 'til Match Day. (Thursday, March 16th, not that I'm eager or anything.)

 

[orientedtoself]

I think that if you think they liked you, they probably liked you. But it is in their best interests to make everyone like them, so that everyone ranks them #1 and they get their top students. Enough with the mind games, though, I need to go send some thank you notes.

 

[robotsonic]

I think some places do make an effort to act like they really like you so that you will like them more. I try not to listen to any of it. Although it is very nice to hear a chairman and program director tell you that you are great and that they really want you at their program, remember that they might just tell everyone that.

But the personal email could be different. None of my interviewers have attempted to contact me

 

[abcyxz]

what if during the interview the chair and pd both tell you they want u there. then u get an email a week later offering them to pay for u to come have a second look?

where do u draw the line with this supposed mind game?

I think some places do make an effort to act like they really like you so that you will like them more. I try not to listen to any of it. Although it is very nice to hear a chairman and program director tell you that you are great and that they really want you at their program, remember that they might just tell everyone that.

But the personal email could be different. None of my interviewers have attempted to contact me

 

[Solideliquid]

what if during the interview the chair and pd both tell you they want u there. then u get an email a week later offering them to pay for u to come have a second look?

where do u draw the line with this supposed mind game?

When a program invites you for a second look even if they do not pay for it I consider that a very positive thing indeed.

 

[Poety]

Most the programs I've gone to invited me back for a second look - and asked the other applicants as well to come back - I'd take the "we'll pay for it" as a really good sign though!

 

[robotsonic]

what if during the interview the chair and pd both tell you they want u there. then u get an email a week later offering them to pay for u to come have a second look?

Holy crap. I thought my interviews weren't going too badly, but there are programs offering to pay for a second look?!! Damn. Like I said, I haven't received any emails after the interview, and I would consider those great signs. Inviting you for a second look and offering to pay for it - that's an insanely good sign in my opinion.

What I ignore are the little things they say to everyone at the interview, like: "We would love to have you." "If you are interested in coming here, just let me know." "If you really want to get to know this place, come back for a day next month and talk with me." Crap like that.

Man, I really want someone to email me now

 

[Fermi]

Holy crap. I thought my interviews weren't going too badly, but there are programs offering to pay for a second look?!!

I thought I was doing alright too. I haven't had anyone invite me for a second look, and I haven't had any PD call or write me. I have had several interviewers contact me by email or written note.

Most interviewers have said things like "I think you're a great fit for the program" at the end of the conversation, but I think that's a pretty standard line--if you were invited to interview there, and didn't make a complete fool of yourself during the conversation, they think you're qualified. Whether they think you're one of their top choices is another story.

 

[BKN]

This is a post I just put on one of the "post interview feedback thread" in the psych forum. I thought that this thread was similar enough that it might be of value here. i apologize in advance if I'm breaking a no double post rule, which i don't really understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poety
Yeah, I think its all generic, I'm starting to think every program is writing the same thing to every applicant but a different variation of it

Rather than suspect PDs of being disingenuous, I think it might be more productive to see them as trying to encourage qualified applicants to come to their program. Even the 'top' programs know that they will have to go down on their rank list to fill their spots, some deeper than others. If you have 10 spots, you're not going to limit your recruiting phone calls to the top 10 candidates, because many of them are going to pick other programs. There may be 50 candidates that you would be more than happy to have in your program. So you call all 50 and say "We'd love to have you here." And depending on how the market shakes out on Match Day, hopefully 10 of them will choose your program.

Am I just being too naive?

My first attempt at putting two different messages together. It didn't work well. If there's a way to do it right, I'd appreciate a PM.

I think you're both right even though your posts seem to conflict.

I would be happy to train almost every candidate I interview and I tell them that. I'm not being disingenuous, I'm giving them feedback that they seem to want. Having done this for a while, I'm pretty sure that most will match. If I'm of that opinion for a particular candidate, I say so.

I don't make promises, tell her she's ranked to match or close a deal early, because we do our list after the last interview. But if a candidates application is so outstanding that I think it very likely that he'll be ranked above our traditional lowest matching slot, I'll tell him it's probably his choice whether he comes to our program. I can say this only to a small proportion of our interviewees.

The reason I went to the trouble of writing this down is that the discussion on this forum seems much more angst ridden than on EM. I guess that's just the specialty "personality" since you guys are in the driver seat. EM candidates are not (neither are ED PDs).

My reaction from what you report about your interviews is that the Psych PDs are doing much more recruiting because they need to. Good news for you. Even so, I think most PDs are honest and what they say is what they mean. If they say they like you, that means they like you, nothing more. I'd make a similar evaluation about "good fit" and "competitive" and "would be happy to train you" statements."

Back to the game theory thing. It is to the PDs advantage to affect all of his candidates ranking of his program upwards. It is to your advantage to affect your ranking upwards on all or your programs lists. It to neither sides advantage to put their list in other than true order.

My point is that even if you are told "you are ranked to match" by an honest PD, that shouldn't affect your list. All it should mean is that if none of the programs above love you, you're going to this place. Attempts to influence your decision, either by "love" or "guilt" should be seen as what they are, coercion. If you want to go there take the bait. If not, be noncommital.

I also respectfully suggest that you stop trying to be junior shrinks and read things into the exact wording (this means you P). Sometimes an analysts cigar is just a cigar. The rest is silence.

 

[orientedtoself]

I also respectfully suggest that you stop trying to be junior shrinks and read things into the exact wording (this means you P). Sometimes an analysts cigar is just a cigar. The rest is silence.

It's just such a looong process, and we hang on to any hint we may have as to where we may match. Does anyone know where to find the statstics as to the percentages of people that match to their #1, #2, #3 choices etc?

 

[robotsonic]

Is it typical for a program to tell you that you are ranked to match (once interviews are over)? It would certainly be nice to hear that.

 

[BKN]

Is it typical for a program to tell you that you are ranked to match (once interviews are over)? It would certainly be nice to hear that.

I'm not sure. I don't go out of my way, and nobody has ever asked me to do so. From what they're saying over on the psych board, it sounds like many PDs will. Perhaps its different for different specialties with different levels of competitiveness.

 

[AngryTesticle]

I'm not sure. I don't go out of my way, and nobody has ever asked me to do so. From what they're saying over on the psych board, it sounds like many PDs will. Perhaps its different for different specialties with different levels of competitiveness.

I think this is correlated to competitiveness and popularity of a given specialty. For instance, in pathology (which overall isn't that competitive), quite a few programs will let you know if you're ranked to match. Some use it along with the pressure tactic along the lines of, "so are you commiting? should we still hold onto this spot for you?"

 

[Poety]

ditto to the above in psychiatry - also you will get "if you want to come here, let us know" pressure tactics.

 

[Ergo]

A good reply to those tactics is: "Yes, I am definitely going to rank your program very highly. I really want to come to (insert your city's name here.)"

They cant ask you where they are going to rank you, and you cant ask them, These are the only big rules for you to know. you can honestly say both of the above to the top half of your rank list. Its your right to keep the actual order of your list secret from everyone.

 

[Sebastian.]

.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Is it typical for a program to tell you that you are ranked to match (once interviews are over)? It would certainly be nice to hear that.

depends...on the program, the faculty member and your application.

Some programs play it very close to the vest, either because they've been burned in the past (a lot of changes can happen during the rank session) or because they feel caged in my NRMP rules.

If they are so inclined and you are a good candidate, you may hear, "you'll be ranked highly" but I wouldn't expect to hear more than this. OTOH, not hearing anything about how or if you'll be ranked shouldn't be taken as a negative sign. Programs need to be careful not to tell you something that implies a contract or commitment (as in, "you'll be ranked number one," "we'll see you here next year", etc.) as this violates NRMP rules.

 

[niagara]

so, speaking of "mind games" that are played during this whole match thing, do program directors contact other places where you've interviewed? and if so, what do they or can they say? at one place i interviewed, the pd asked me all the places that i interviewed at and wrote them down. and rumor is, this pd has friends at a lot of other programs who he talks to quite frequently. i'm just trying to figure out that if he did talk to these other places about me, what would he or could he say or ask.

 

[cytoborg]

I found most PDs to be honest about how they liked me and how I would be ranked. Like AngryTesticle mentioned, it depends on the field and in pathology they are pretty candid in telling you "You are ranked to match" or even sometimes letting you know the exact position on the list. I don't think it behooves them to pretend they like you - after all, they don't want people they don't like ending up at their program. But I'm sure it depends on the field.

so, speaking of "mind games" that are played during this whole match thing, do program directors contact other places where you've interviewed? and if so, what do they or can they say? at one place i interviewed, the pd asked me all the places that i interviewed at and wrote them down. and rumor is, this pd has friends at a lot of other programs who he talks to quite frequently. i'm just trying to figure out that if he did talk to these other places about me, what would he or could he say or ask.

There aren't any rules as to what they can talk about with other PDs, but I do know it happens. Don't worry, as long as you didn't tell more than one program they're #1, or lie in any other fashion, you'll be fine.

 

[BKN]

so, speaking of "mind games" that are played during this whole match thing, do program directors contact other places where you've interviewed? and if so, what do they or can they say? at one place i interviewed, the pd asked me all the places that i interviewed at and wrote them down. and rumor is, this pd has friends at a lot of other programs who he talks to quite frequently. i'm just trying to figure out that if he did talk to these other places about me, what would he or could he say or ask.

You'all have way too much time on your hands.

Basically, no. I haven't ever discussed a candidate with other PDs, nor has anyone talked to me. We don't do a back room thing. "I'll trade you this AOA for three upper half of their class candidates, etc." I would point out that the PDs in a particular specialty are in competition with each other for the most desirable candidates, just as you are in competition for the most desirable slots.

Besides the ethics of it, I don't have the time and we couldn't control the match even if we wanted to do so.

The particular PD you are discussing may just want to know who his competition is. If he is talking to other PDs about particular candidates, I'm mystified what the purpose or advantage would be.