ONCE AND FOR ALL... GRADE FORGIVENESS ISN"T REAL... IT DOESN"T Exist

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Grade Forgiveness Misleading


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christian15213

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Grade forgiveness is IMO the worst thing to ever tell a student in college. If you mess up, "you can retake it and get an A and your grade will be replaced." JOY TO THE WORLD...

Not to AMCAS what you get will be shown... they should give a disclaimer for grade forgiveness because it is truly misleading.

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Hadn't ever been told it before anyway. Did people really think that there are no disadvanteges to picking up an F?
 
Hadn't ever been told it before anyway. Did people really think that there are no disadvanteges to picking up an F?

lol. I dunno but it floors me when people think that a grade forgiveness is like taking the MCAT more than once... the better score overrides the lesser score.
 
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People think that?
I have not many pre-allo's that thought that.

Grade forgiveness is real in other terms though, having a solid upward trend can cause the ADCOMS to take later grades more seriously than previous ones. Please note that I am not saying the previous grades disappear.
 
People think that?
I have not many pre-allo's that thought that.

Grade forgiveness is real in other terms though, having a solid upward trend can cause the ADCOMS to take later grades more seriously than previous ones. Please note that I am not saying the previous grades disappear.

I agree with that but it is the false expectation that it works like the MCATS. All I am saying is that people shouldn't be confused. If you get a bad grad D or F then it is going to show and you will have to perhaps explain it. I know it seems like it would be common sense but you would be very surprised.
 
hmm at my school supposedly if you straight up fail a class( i'm talking F) then if you retake it then your grade replaces it on the transcript. never tried it out tho. and so if it replaces it on the transcript, then i'm guessing amcas doesn't see it huh? its only if you withdraw that supposedly both the W and the final grade show up.
 
hmm at my school supposedly if you straight up fail a class( i'm talking F) then if you retake it then your grade replaces it on the transcript. never tried it out tho. and so if it replaces it on the transcript, then i'm guessing amcas doesn't see it huh? its only if you withdraw that supposedly both the W and the final grade show up.

Actually, although the grade is replaced in the transcript, the first grade still shows (but it's not counted). AMCAS will still see the grade and use both in the calculations.
 
Actually, although the grade is replaced in the transcript, the first grade still shows (but it's not counted). AMCAS will still see the grade and use both in the calculations.

thank you... that is exactly what I am talking about... this is where the confusion stems from.
 
hmm at my school supposedly if you straight up fail a class( i'm talking F) then if you retake it then your grade replaces it on the transcript. never tried it out tho. and so if it replaces it on the transcript, then i'm guessing amcas doesn't see it huh? its only if you withdraw that supposedly both the W and the final grade show up.

What sort of a mail-order school has this policy?
 
^ no such school exists.
 
hmm at my school supposedly if you straight up fail a class( i'm talking F) then if you retake it then your grade replaces it on the transcript. never tried it out tho. and so if it replaces it on the transcript, then i'm guessing amcas doesn't see it huh? its only if you withdraw that supposedly both the W and the final grade show up.

Nope can't do that, AMCAS will always find whatever grades you make in a course. I'm willing to bet that if you retake a course at your university, that it is the same as most other universities - sure on a transcript it may say "A" but there will be some sort of mark saying it was from a retake, and I'm willing to further bet that if you look at transcripts that they would send to medical schools, it has all the grades on there.
 
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You know Christian15213, you seem very fixated on grades, your last two threads that you started were about grades and GPAs...
 
I think TX has a true grade forgiveness policy. But it only applies to TX schools and the F grades must be at least 10 years old. I know some form of this grade forgiveness is used for admissions to grad programs, but I'm not sure if TX med schools and their unique application system, uses that system.
 
What sort of a mail-order school has this policy?

^ no such school exists.

I think TX has a true grade forgiveness policy. But it only applies to TX schools and the F grades must be at least 10 years old. I know some form of this grade forgiveness is used for admissions to grad programs, but I'm not sure if TX med schools and their unique application system, uses that system.

Leave it to Texas...
 
I think TX has a true grade forgiveness policy. But it only applies to TX schools and the F grades must be at least 10 years old. I know some form of this grade forgiveness is used for admissions to grad programs, but I'm not sure if TX med schools and their unique application system, uses that system.

I didn't know about this, but if it exists it is probably for very very old grades (as you said). It sure didn't forgive that D I got freshman year. It got averaged with the retake.
 
I dunno but it floors me when people think that a grade forgiveness is like taking the MCAT more than once... the better score overrides the lesser score.
The MCAT doesn't work like that at all schools. Some schools will take you highest in each section and some schools will take your most recent. Not many, but worth checking out with your school of choice.
 
The MCAT doesn't work like that at all schools. Some schools will take you highest in each section and some schools will take your most recent. Not many, but worth checking out with your school of choice.

but they do have the limit that one can only take it three times..
 
How is it misleading???
If it shows up on the transcript, its getting calculated into your GPA.
 
I took Biology 13 years ago and got an F.
I took Biology 11 years ago and got an A.

(One of those dumb-kid stories...)

It really perturbs me that I cannot get credit for the 11 year old biology. I have to retake the course. BUT, the F is still on my record from 13 years ago as is the A from 11 years ago. If I don't get credit for it then why is it on my transcript?? I'd prefer to have both courses dropped from my transcript...

I know, I know, life isn't fair :oops:)
 
but they do have the limit that one can only take it three times..

Actually, there was no limit on taking the paper MCAT as long as you could "prove" that you are actively seeking admissions to a medical
school and have not recieved an acceptance.
 
I think TX has a true grade forgiveness policy. But it only applies to TX schools and the F grades must be at least 10 years old. I know some form of this grade forgiveness is used for admissions to grad programs, but I'm not sure if TX med schools and their unique application system, uses that system.

What you are talking about is the "Academic Fresh Start" program in Texas. However, it's not really grade a replacement/forgiveness system, rather it is like completely starting over, as if you had NEVER attended college. Here's the deal:

1) You can only use it once.

2) Everything that you earned ten or more years ago is completely wiped from your record. You cannot selectively replace grades, and you lose any credit hours previously earned.

3) You must elect this option BEFORE you begin a degree program.

4) You still have to tell TMDSAS that you attended school previously and that you have participated in "Academic Fresh Start" program - - which could raise eyebrows.

Just wanted to clear things up!
 
I'm willing to bet that if you retake a course at your university, that it is the same as most other universities - sure on a transcript it may say "A" but there will be some sort of mark saying it was from a retake, and I'm willing to further bet that if you look at transcripts that they would send to medical schools, it has all the grades on there.

At my school the transcript they send out for a replaced grade shows an 'N' in place of the F/D/whatever and the new class grade is listed separately. I've often wondered what AMCAS thinks if they see an 'N' on the transcript.

N = NOT willing (or able) to get it right the first time
N = NOT too bright
N = NOT worthy of a med school slot
 
Vassar college (I do not attend) has something cool where basically you can state the grade you want/expect to get, let's say an A-. But, if you score anything below that, they will not touch your transcript and it would be as if you never took the class, but if you get an A- or higher it would show up. Doesn't really apply, but just reminded me of it.
 
The only thing more absurd than a school having a "forgiveness" policy for ****ty grades is someone complaining about how the implimentation of that policy doesn't maximize their advantage when applying to graduate schools.

You should sack up and deal with your shortcomings head-on instead of trying to sweep them under the rug with some bull**** bureaucratic schemes.
 
hmm at my school supposedly if you straight up fail a class( i'm talking F) then if you retake it then your grade replaces it on the transcript.

Some schools offer course forgiveness policies that allow you to "replace" the grade by having the first grade removed from the overall GPA calculation.

You may not respect this policy but you have to remember the multitude of scenarios that have an impact on your GPA -- it's one thing to bag on someone for partying too much and getting an F in OChem and it's another thing to bag on someone who got an F in OChem because their three best friends were all killed in a tragic car accident.

Anyway, the forgiveness policy applies for the institutional GPA, not for the AMCAS GPA. This is why some applicants are confused about their AMCAS GPA.

However, you can usually only do this one or two times in your entire undergrad career, so it's not like you can delete a thousand F's.

Personally, I think the fact that AMCAS doesn't replace your grade is absurd.... but I understand that they don't have to do any favors for anybody because there are consistently more applicants than spots available.
 
I wish someone had told me what this whole DROP thing was my first semester when I dropped out :(

Grades replaced with A's, but sure doesn't help with AMCAS.
 
I wish someone had told me what this whole DROP thing was my first semester when I dropped out :(

Grades replaced with A's, but sure doesn't help with AMCAS.

Well, overall that was the point of the thread... I hope it helps one person in the future...
 
Vassar college (I do not attend) has something cool where basically you can state the grade you want/expect to get, let's say an A-. But, if you score anything below that, they will not touch your transcript and it would be as if you never took the class, but if you get an A- or higher it would show up. Doesn't really apply, but just reminded me of it.

What a bizarre policy. What's to stop someone from saying they expect an A in Orgo, then taking it four times until they finally get their A? And no one would ever know about the three other times they took it? How odd.
 
Grade forgiveness is IMO the worst thing to ever tell a student in college. If you mess up, "you can retake it and get an A and your grade will be replaced." JOY TO THE WORLD...

To be honest, the first I had ever heard of grade forgiveness was on SDN...
 
What a bizarre policy. What's to stop someone from saying they expect an A in Orgo, then taking it four times until they finally get their A? And no one would ever know about the three other times they took it? How odd.

I was thinking about this when I read it...I originally thought that it would be a great way to assure a 4.0, but college would have taken me a lot longer! I wouldn't have ended up as a full time student most semesters after all of my non-A classes were dropped. I would have to put down the lowest grade I would accept on my transcript (probably a B), and I would have been okay...
 
I agree with that but it is the false expectation that it works like the MCATS. All I am saying is that people shouldn't be confused. If you get a bad grad D or F then it is going to show and you will have to perhaps explain it. I know it seems like it would be common sense but you would be very surprised.

uh i wasnt aware that your later MCAT score canceled out an earlier one- maybe you have been misled to believe that you can retake the MCAT as many times as you want and your best score will be the only one counted- but schools can see ALL the attempts so you better believe they are all, in some way, considered. By the way- some schools completely erase classes you retake from your transcript (ahem Brown)- so some people are not misguided. They in fact do get "grade forgiveness" when they retake. If the original class disappears after the retake you can bet the farm people are not going to put it down on AMCAS- and why should they?
 
u of colo has this grade forgiveness thing
 
uh i wasnt aware that your later MCAT score canceled out an earlier one- maybe you have been misled to believe that you can retake the MCAT as many times as you want and your best score will be the only one counted- but schools can see ALL the attempts so you better believe they are all, in some way, considered. By the way- some schools completely erase classes you retake from your transcript (ahem Brown)- so some people are not misguided. They in fact do get "grade forgiveness" when they retake. If the original class disappears after the retake you can bet the farm people are not going to put it down on AMCAS- and why should they?

I think my school keeps both grades as well. Should grade forgiveness be used on a C if it was your only one?

Also do dual enrollment classes go into calculating total gpa for amcas?
 
about the vassar thing....it DOES show up on your transcript if you get lower than the grade you've determined, it shows up as a Pass.
 
bleh All these kids trying to retake B-'s and C+'s to up their GPA. Why should a F be excused? Personally, I think averaging the original grade and the new grade is already generous enough.
 
What sort of a mail-order school has this policy?

Almost all schools has this policy....

Problem is that you still have to list ALL of your grades when applying to ANY course of study leading to an advanced degree. The program is really meant to give some sort of an encouragement to pursue a degree. And I dont think its open if you consistently get low marks in classes.
 
bleh All these kids trying to retake B-'s and C+'s to up their GPA. Why should a F be excused? Personally, I think averaging the original grade and the new grade is already generous enough.

Some ocurses have a limit to be retaken. And its kinda poitnless to be retaking a class, and earning only .3 ~ 1.0 pts. higher than what one orginally got. If a C is earned, really what will and A bring it up to ?
 
Some ocurses have a limit to be retaken. And its kinda poitnless to be retaking a class, and earning only .3 ~ 1.0 pts. higher than what one orginally got. If a C is earned, really what will and A bring it up to ?

Don't underestimate the stupidity of these grade grubbers.
 
Also do dual enrollment classes go into calculating total gpa for amcas?
Yes, they do. And I've heard of more than one aspiring medical school applicant who really got burned by those college grades earned by someone with high-school level self-discipline. But, one more time... you have to report ANYTHING you did in a higher-education institution - no matter when, or why, or how. You have to report it. Period.

Now, me, as an old fart, didn't have to worry about dual-enrollment classes - there was no such thing back then. But, boy, was I shocked when I found out that my first-semester-of-undergrad Astronomy grade was going to figure into my science GPA. That was the Fall of 1979, for Pete's sake. Thank God it was an easy class and I got an "A". I distinctly remember working on homework for other classes during those lectures.
 
Funny that this thread comes up - the school I did my post-bacc classes at does have the policy that when a class is retaken, only the more recent grade is counted in GPA calculations. A few days ago I had to inform a friend that TMDSAS and AMCAS did NOT work like that and ALL of her grades would be used to calculate GPA for med school apps.
 
Don't underestimate the stupidity of these grade grubbers.

Retaking a class to boost GPA by .1 or worse yet .01 pts. isnt exactly the smartest thing to do with your time or money.
 
Here is another thing that is funny about this misnomer. (spelling be darned) Someone here on SDN said the funnies thing that made so much sense and I will be explaining to my students this fall exactly what was said. If you mess around, don't drop a course and get a grade of F... You would need to get an A a total of 6x's to be back at an A- average or 5 times just to be at a 3.33 or 3 times just to be at an B average of 3.0...

Who is going to take a class 6 or 7 times to start at a 3.3-3.5 gpa?

I beg students sometimes to drop classes and it is like a funny joke sometimes... when the words pre-med comes outt their mouths sometimes I have a "Scrubs" moment where I am thinking in my head STFU and want to reach across the desk and smack them.

But then, I began to think. Why and WTF is the grade forgiveness policy? What does it do? Who is it for? Why do students even know about it?

CORPORATE AMERICA... the GFP (grade forgiveness policy) is a pure we want all of YOUR money scheme. It does two things. Say you want to graduate with Honors from THE PARTICULAR school you're in. It will remove one bad grade and hopefully replace it with another thus raising your SCHOOL GPA... Two, lets say you apply to your current schools GRAD program... Yes, there it can help too because you can now apply with a higher GPA then the one you truly got. <<<<NOPE WRONG>>>> Check out kent state below, you can't even benefit this way...

here is an excpert from my schools webpage...

*******What is the grade forgiveness policy?

XXX allows students to repeat courses (two total courses) and allow only the 2nd attempt to count in the GPA. Though the first grade will show on the transcript, it will not count in the GPA. ONLY courses taken both times at XXX can be used for grade forgiveness (transfer work is not considered). To file grade forgiveness, students can complete the Grade Forgiveness Form and file with the Registrar's office. Grade forgivness requests may be filed anytime prior to earning a degree at XXX and only apply to undergraduate courses. ********** another portion of a freshman warning note: Use your grade forgiveness policy. If you have taken a course and received a poor or failing grade, you may take the course again and apply your grade forgiveness policy. By using grade forgiveness, your old grade will be taken out of your GPA and your new grade will be factored in. This can bring a dying GPA back to life. Use your policies wisely though, you are only given two throughout your college career at XXX. Word of caution: If the course you took was exceptionally difficult for you the first time chances are it will still be hard the second time around. Don’t take a course like this for grade forgiveness when you are on Freshman Warning or Probation. You are attempting to take courses and receive excellent grades, not just mediocre, to bring up your GPA.


This is another spelled out grade forgiving policy from Kent State

What will this do to my GPA?
· All grades will appear on the student’s transcript.
· All grades will be used in GPA calculations for institutional honors and admission to
graduate or special programs, and are independent of the cumulative GPA on your
transcript and grade reports.
· Only the grade for the second attempt will be used in the calculation of the cumulative
GPA.
· Credit for the second attempt will not be counted towards graduation requirements.



Again, what is the point of this???

Lastly UCB puts hits it right on the head in my opinion of what this nonsense really is... they don't make mention of how it carries to grad programs but what they say is right on the money...

**********Based on registrar's data, 26 students applied to repeat CHEM 1111, an introductory-level chemistry course. That many students repeating a course creates demand for an additional lab or recitation section, Nishikawa and Sherman agreed. Introductory economics, mathematics, physics, engineering and business courses are among the most common for students to repeat.

"If we have a policy that encourages students to retake a course, we're putting more enrollment demand in classes that already have high enrollment demand, and that pushes cost onto the departments," Sherman said.

Concern about students' priority in enrollment is a related issue, Sherman said. "If we have a student repeating a course under course forgiveness, what is their priority compared to other students to get in the class if there are a limited number of seats?" he asked. "We are trying to determine that."

Academic integrity is another concern administrators have struggled with since the program was introduced, and they are having to address it more directly now that the policy is in place, Sherman said.

"Originally, it was proposed that this program would give good students an opportunity to improve their GPA, but I think that has shifted a little bit," he said. "We've found, initially, that these aren't pretty good students, instead they are students who are struggling academically."


I think this nonsense should be banned... WTF is the purpose???
 
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