ONCE AND FOR ALL... GRADE FORGIVENESS ISN"T REAL... IT DOESN"T Exist

[BeatrixKiddo]

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Good werks detective.

 

[deleted128318]

Good werks detective.

your avatar gives me nightmares.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

your avatar gives me nightmares.

Why, it's just an apple wearing sunglasses...

 

[christian15213]

Why, it's just an apple wearing sunglasses...

lol that is funny...

 

[oldpremed75]

What about grade changes?

that's different.

Well, it is true that grade forgiveness is not recognized by AMCAS, grade changes have been used to allow people to repeat a course and "replace" a grade by changing the grade after the fact. I've seen it done where a professor lets somebody erase an old grade by repeating the course unofficially and then simply submitting a grade change months later.

I wish that I could have taken advantage of such second-chances with my ancient, horrible grades...but alas I had to compete with current pre-med students who are able to game the system while I was stuck with a 10+ year-old bad history. Life is not fair and you move on.

 

[christian15213]

Well, it is true that grade forgiveness is not recognized by AMCAS, grade changes have been used to allow people to repeat a course and "replace" a grade by changing the grade after the fact. I've seen it done where a professor lets somebody erase an old grade by repeating the course unofficially and then simply submitting a grade change months later.

I wish that I could have taken advantage of such second-chances with my ancient, horrible grades...but alas I had to compete with current pre-med students who are able to game the system while I was stuck with a 10+ year-old bad history. Life is not fair and you move on.

ummmm, to that I would say if there is a prof that is switching grades months later that would be ummm, how do you call in your country, ILLEGAL... / AGAINST SCHOOL CODE and POLICY... / LIABLE / wreckless... / NOT FAIR... / UNHEARD OF...

I am sure there are a few other descriptors to help explain that being done. but alas yes, if that was undone then technically it would change the grade and nobody would know the difference.

 

[mvenus929]

The Co-Execs at my school were going around trying to petition for a grade forgiveness policy, since both the other schools in our system have such a policy. However, when they came in front of the SAACS group, one of them started the argument with "Well, we all know there are those that are going to be applying for medical, dental, or other graduate school, and you need to have a decent GPA to get into those..."

I pointed out that AMCAS didn't care, and he was like 'oh, well, not everyone is applying for medical school'.

 

[Critical Mass]

lol. I dunno but it floors me when people think that a grade forgiveness is like taking the MCAT more than once... the better score overrides the lesser score.

FWIW, they can see the old MCAT scores too. I had one that was 5 years old that they still asked me about.

 

[christian15213]

The Co-Execs at my school were going around trying to petition for a grade forgiveness policy, since both the other schools in our system have such a policy. However, when they came in front of the SAACS group, one of them started the argument with "Well, we all know there are those that are going to be applying for medical, dental, or other graduate school, and you need to have a decent GPA to get into those..."

I pointed out that AMCAS didn't care, and he was like 'oh, well, not everyone is applying for medical school'.

LOL, isn't it scary freaking amazing... I would have followed up with the question what is the forgiveness good for? I still don't know... apparently the only thing it does is change your cume GPA at the school the person is in. LOL, it doesn't even work for a person's own grad school...

IMO I think it is to make money or an ill conceived effort at trying to do something positive but couldn't get the OK on the original idea and thus created some cranked alternative.

It floors me for two reasons. My students come up and tell me about it all the time... When their repeating my class they say, " its ok I am going to use the "grade forgiveness." And I just look dumb founded.

Second, I hear other students who have notoriously screwed up in classes attend AMSA meetings and a buch of other events and do nothing but complain about classes and thus proceed to talk about well yea, "organic1 I got a D in but I took it again and got a B so "thank god for that forgiveness policy."

oh and lastly, this one is hillarious too... Student 345 can you meet me after class... Well student 345 you have missed 5 classes now and have gotten a zero on every day you missed... You will probably get a 30% for the class and there is nothing you can do about it... If I were you I would be thinking about dropping the class before the add drop date... And or talk to the prof and see if they could work something out.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "OK!!!"

end of semester, point of no return, add drop over and done with for about 6 weeks now. So, student 345 you must have worked something out with Dr. such and such... "oh no, I forgot to do that... I was thinking of getting an I or dropping it after I take the final and see how I do... because I have this thing... <<<<my mouth is to the floor now...

you know the rest of what happened... but seriously... these are the people that want to be your doctor and it is freaking scary...

 

[deleted128318]

Why, it's just an apple wearing sunglasses...

just?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

FWIW, they can see the old MCAT scores too. I had one that was 5 years old that they still asked me about.

I had an MCAT score that was 15 years old, but wasn't asked about any of my MCAT scores at all.

 

[christian15213]

I had an MCAT score that was 15 years old, but wasn't asked about any of my MCAT scores at all.

I don't understand what that has to do with grade forgiveness or this topic?😳

 

[TPROrgoTutor2]

I think this nonsense should be banned... WTF is the purpose???

I personally have a very close friend who, her first semester of college, decided to play around and got a D in some math class (I don't recall the name of it). Since, she has earned A's in every class save 2 B's and has retaken said math class and several above it with A's. This is what grade forgiveness is for. Its too bad that AMCAS does not calculate it, it takes her nearly perfect GPA down significantly, it is a shame.

 

[Anastasis]

I don't understand what that has to do with grade forgiveness or this topic?😳

I believe they were addressing the analogy between grades and MCAT scores.

 

[Tired]

I personally have a very close friend who, her first semester of college, decided to play around and got a D in some math class (I don't recall the name of it). Since, she has earned A's in every class save 2 B's and has retaken said math class and several above it with A's. This is what grade forgiveness is for. Its too bad that AMCAS does not calculate it, it takes her nearly perfect GPA down significantly, it is a shame.

It's not a shame. People take classes and get grades. Sometimes those grades are low. There are no magic "do-overs" in life, nor should there be any in the admissions process.

 

[Institute]

As someone who speaks from experience, my last degree was plagued with deficiencies - but I wasn't a premed major either. I simply had no direction in life and I think I broke the world record of 8, count it, 8 deficiencies. But here's where the grade forgiveness comes in. I went to an aviation uni (Embry-Riddle). Most companies never cared what you got in your classes, they cared either about a) your real life experience in the field of interest b) your cumulative gpa or c) your relevant classes. Of course those companies might ask for transcripts, but their primary concern is that your gpa is up and your ready to be a hardworking ant; how many times you bomb is of no importance to them, as long as you can get the job done.

I think the funniest part about the classes I took, and then bombed in, was that I always creamed the first exam, came out being the top scorer, but after that, just didn't care.

However, after some time, my outlook on life changed due to certain real life experiences and now I'm in an uphill battle getting a postbacc done. My focus now is slaughtering the MCAT and buffing up my EC's (of which I have some good ones right now). I can only show medical schools how much my passion is for life sciences by excelling in them. I have 2 years to pull myself out of the dirt.

So, am I proud of my F's? Hell no, but you know what? **** happens, and I can understand the reasoning that med schools have for being so stringent.

 

[Zyzzyva100]

Depends on how your school reports it though. I retook ochem I since I had a terrible prof to go from a C to an A. While my transcript shows that I retook the course, my university gets rid of the old grade and pretends like it does not exist. Now I was honest on my AMCAS app, but I could have easily said that I got a B and retook for an A.

My university also has a freshman forgivenes policy that lets you drop classes anytime during the semester without penalty, and basically makes it as though you never took the class at all. I also put those on my AMCAS even though my transcript doesn't show it. Worked out for me in the end as I will be at UofR next year. But overall, I would say that school telling students that the grade is replaced should tell people interested in med school of AMCAS' policy.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

It's not a shame. People take classes and get grades. Sometimes those grades are low. There are no magic "do-overs" in life, nor should there be any in the admissions process.

Harsh! 😱

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I don't understand what that has to do with grade forgiveness or this topic?😳

It was a response to a post by Critical Mass in this thread. Geeze! 🙄 😀

 

[TSK]

Agreed. Prior to this board, I'd never met anyone, regardless of their pre-med status, who thought that they could take a course more than once with no consequences or record of the original grade.

It kind of reminds me of recess. If you make a mistake or lose, simple declare a do-over and no one's the wiser.
👎

To be honest, the first I had ever heard of grade forgiveness was on SDN...

 

[Depakote]

This "grade forgiveness" is one of the dumbest policies I can think of in higher education.

Sure, if you've bombed a class, take it over. Show improvement and make-up for your failings, but don't expect that first grade to magically disappear.

Even for students that don't plan on pursuing higher degrees, this is a terrible policy. College is supposed to prepare a student for the "real world". When you're working, you don't get to pretend your mistakes didn't happen by polishing over them with a shiny new attempt at the task.

 

[christian15213]

agreed and worse I think and feel it gives students some false sense of security to try things out instead of going balls out and trying them correctly the first time.

 

[IceMan0824]

Here is another thing that is funny about this misnomer. (spelling be darned) Someone here on SDN said the funnies thing that made so much sense and I will be explaining to my students this fall exactly what was said. If you mess around, don't drop a course and get a grade of F... You would need to get an A a total of 6x's to be back at an A- average or 5 times just to be at a 3.33 or 3 times just to be at an B average of 3.0...

Who is going to take a class 6 or 7 times to start at a 3.3-3.5 gpa?

I beg students sometimes to drop classes and it is like a funny joke sometimes... when the words pre-med comes outt their mouths sometimes I have a "Scrubs" moment where I am thinking in my head STFU and want to reach across the desk and smack them.

But then, I began to think. Why and WTF is the grade forgiveness policy? What does it do? Who is it for? Why do students even know about it?

CORPORATE AMERICA... the GFP (grade forgiveness policy) is a pure we want all of YOUR money scheme. It does two things. Say you want to graduate with Honors from THE PARTICULAR school you're in. It will remove one bad grade and hopefully replace it with another thus raising your SCHOOL GPA... Two, lets say you apply to your current schools GRAD program... Yes, there it can help too because you can now apply with a higher GPA then the one you truly got. <<<<NOPE WRONG>>>> Check out kent state below, you can't even benefit this way...

here is an excpert from my schools webpage...

*******What is the grade forgiveness policy?

XXX allows students to repeat courses (two total courses) and allow only the 2nd attempt to count in the GPA. Though the first grade will show on the transcript, it will not count in the GPA. ONLY courses taken both times at XXX can be used for grade forgiveness (transfer work is not considered). To file grade forgiveness, students can complete the Grade Forgiveness Form and file with the Registrar's office. Grade forgivness requests may be filed anytime prior to earning a degree at XXX and only apply to undergraduate courses. ********** another portion of a freshman warning note: Use your grade forgiveness policy. If you have taken a course and received a poor or failing grade, you may take the course again and apply your grade forgiveness policy. By using grade forgiveness, your old grade will be taken out of your GPA and your new grade will be factored in. This can bring a dying GPA back to life. Use your policies wisely though, you are only given two throughout your college career at XXX. Word of caution: If the course you took was exceptionally difficult for you the first time chances are it will still be hard the second time around. Don’t take a course like this for grade forgiveness when you are on Freshman Warning or Probation. You are attempting to take courses and receive excellent grades, not just mediocre, to bring up your GPA.


This is another spelled out grade forgiving policy from Kent State

What will this do to my GPA?
· All grades will appear on the student’s transcript.
· All grades will be used in GPA calculations for institutional honors and admission to
graduate or special programs, and are independent of the cumulative GPA on your
transcript and grade reports.
· Only the grade for the second attempt will be used in the calculation of the cumulative
GPA.
· Credit for the second attempt will not be counted towards graduation requirements.


Again, what is the point of this???

Lastly UCB puts hits it right on the head in my opinion of what this nonsense really is... they don't make mention of how it carries to grad programs but what they say is right on the money...

**********Based on registrar's data, 26 students applied to repeat CHEM 1111, an introductory-level chemistry course. That many students repeating a course creates demand for an additional lab or recitation section, Nishikawa and Sherman agreed. Introductory economics, mathematics, physics, engineering and business courses are among the most common for students to repeat.

"If we have a policy that encourages students to retake a course, we're putting more enrollment demand in classes that already have high enrollment demand, and that pushes cost onto the departments," Sherman said.

Concern about students' priority in enrollment is a related issue, Sherman said. "If we have a student repeating a course under course forgiveness, what is their priority compared to other students to get in the class if there are a limited number of seats?" he asked. "We are trying to determine that."

Academic integrity is another concern administrators have struggled with since the program was introduced, and they are having to address it more directly now that the policy is in place, Sherman said.

"Originally, it was proposed that this program would give good students an opportunity to improve their GPA, but I think that has shifted a little bit," he said. "We've found, initially, that these aren't pretty good students, instead they are students who are struggling academically."

I think this nonsense should be banned... WTF is the purpose???

They let you teach a course. God save all us.
Please tell me it's not English.

 

[christian15213]

They let you teach a course. God save all us.
Please tell me it's not English.

No, it's organic Chem and what is funny is that this doesn't have a spell check function... So, when I am a doctor and you're writing articles for the whocares times that will be so awesome because I wont' care. 👍 thanks for the awesome reply though...

 

[IceMan0824]

No, it's organic Chem and what is funny is that this doesn't have a spell check function... So, when I am a doctor and you're writing articles for the whocares times that will be so awesome because I wont' care. 👍 thanks for the awesome reply though...

That wasn't really funny, but then again, I wasn't expecting comical genius out of you. Guess what, I don't have spell check either. It's amazing I can still add spaces where they are needed, put apostrophe in appropriate sections, not use ambiguous pronous and still form coherent sentences.

Then again, you do remind me of my orgo chem TA. You, like him, will come to realize that no matter how much material you know (or think you know), no one will care if they can not understand you. I'm surprised all the students in your section haven't flocked over to a TA that they can understand.

I'm a nice guy, let me give you some assistance to get started. Learn proper spelling and definition. Just click here..

 

[christian15213]

That wasn't really funny, but then again, I wasn't expecting comical genius out of you. Guess what, I don't have spell check either. It's amazing I can still add spaces where they are needed, put apostrophe in appropriate sections, not use ambiguous pronous and still form coherent sentences.

Then again, you do remind me of my orgo chem TA. You, like him, will come to realize that no matter how much material you know (or think you know), no one will care if they can not understand you. I'm surprised all the students in your section haven't flocked over to a TA that they can understand.

I'm a nice guy, let me give you some assistance to get started. Learn proper spelling and definition. Just click here..

no actually my students love me and learn a lot from me because I actually teach them, unlike some other TA's... But you probably wouldn't know that because you're not one. However, I see that you are mightly handy with copy and pasting your responses back and forth from word. Which is the same I would do if I cared. Nevertheless, I see a super red hot bright glowing future for you checking papers. I think you'll be awesome 👍

 

[fisko82]

That wasn't really funny, but then again, I wasn't expecting comical genius out of you. Guess what, I don't have spell check either. It's amazing I can still add spaces where they are needed, put apostrophe in appropriate sections, not use ambiguous pronous and still form coherent sentences...I'm a nice guy, let me give you some assistance to get started. Learn proper spelling and definition. Just click here..

😀

 

[IceMan0824]

no actually my students love me and learn a lot from me because I actually teach them, unlike some other TA's... But you probably wouldn't know that because you're not one.

I'm not 'one' what? A TA, a student, someone who needs your help. Please clarify and this time, lets try to follow the rules and grammar of the English language.

However, I see that you are mightly handy with copy and pasting your responses back and forth from word.

Sorry there little boy, but I do not need Microsoft Word to let me know that I need to capitalize the first letter of a word when I start a sentence, or even how to spell. It's called diligence. I'm diligent when I type, write, or speak. Use that website I gave you and look up that word, who knows, the word just might come in handy to you. Heck you can use it to impress your friends.

Also, why 'copy and paste back and forth' anyway? Would I just not copy and paste from word once, why do I need to go back and forth. Oh, I forgot, you suck at English.

Which is the same I would do if I cared. Nevertheless, I see a super red hot bright glowing future for you checking papers. I think you'll be awesome 👍

I think you missed a few commas in there. Thanks for the thumpup. I would give you my vision for the future, but I'm afraid using words like vision, ambition, goals might confound your simple mind. I'll take pity on you.

Like I mentioned to you before. Good Luck with your quest in achieving a medical degree. Let me know if you ever get to the finish line.

 

[IceMan0824]

😀

What a repartee?
Darn it, MSWord should have caught that, right Christian?

 

[lilnoelle]

Lets keep the thread on topic guys. (Read the little box at the bottom of your screen please)

While grade forgiveness may not be real in undergrad, we have this beautiful thing at my med school called final retakes. Every final we have the opportunity to take a retake (completely different exam) and the school picks the highest score to give us as our grade. One final I failed miserably and then pulled a B in the retake. Beautiful.

 

[p9142]

lol. I dunno but it floors me when people think that a grade forgiveness is like taking the MCAT more than once... the better score overrides the lesser score.

Actually, there isn't MCAT forgiveness either. All scores are reported, and have been for a couple years.

 

[christian15213]

I'm not 'one' what? A TA, a student, someone who needs your help. Please clarify and this time, lets try to follow the rules and grammar of the English language.

A TA is someone you're assigned to go to for a class that isn't taught by a professor. I.e. recitation <watch out now I probably spelled that wrong.<<< But as I check my GASAM, I don't care.

Sorry there little boy, but I do not need Microsoft Word to let me know that I need to capitalize the first letter of a word when I start a sentence, or even how to spell. It's called diligence. I'm diligent when I type, write, or speak. Use that website I gave you and look up that word, who knows, the word just might come in handy to you. Heck you can use it to impress your friends.

Great you seem secure with yourself... Again checking my trusty ole GASAM and still getting no reading

Also, why 'copy and paste back and forth' anyway? Would I just not copy and paste from word once, why do I need to go back and forth. Oh, I forgot, you suck at English.

You make a really good point. I am going to check my GASAM one more time... ... ... nope nada...<<<<P.S. that is spanish for nothing

I think you missed a few commas in there. Thanks for the thumpup. I would give you my vision for the future, but I'm afraid using words like vision, ambition, goals might confound your simple mind. I'll take pity on you.



Like I mentioned to you before. Good Luck with your quest in achieving a medical degree. Let me know if you ever get to the finish line.

Will be sure to... Do you have any contact information, like myspace or anything that we could be best buds and then exchange where I got into and where you might have gone?

Lastly, for someone who is SOOOOooooo caught up on grammar and spelling and all that jazz. Look at your avatar IceMan0824
Holy crip, he's a crapple

👍

Yea enough, who cares, like I said my give a crapple a meter doesn't CARE

Stick to topic...

 

[powerful_squib]

They actually have grade forgiveness at my university (Rutgers University). I already know the policy though. I know that even though the grade does replace on the transcripts that AMACAS takes both the grades and average them. I can't believe that is not common knowledge.

 

[christian15213]

They actually have grade forgiveness at my university (Rutgers University). I already know the policy though. I know that even though the grade does replace on the transcripts that AMACAS takes both the grades and average them. I can't believe that is not common knowledge.

The grade doesn't replace on the transcript... cause if it did... YAHHHOOOO, grade replacement / forgiveness would work and would be freaking great.