One Army dentist's story...

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teeth63a

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A few of you over the past couple of weeks asked how my military experience was and I thought I'd just write up a new thread. If you don't want to read the whole thing skip to the bottom...but I'll try to keep it short.

1998 - my second year of dental school and I took the 2 year HPSP scholarship. I went in wide eyed...since there was no SDN forum to turn to. I had nothing but the recruiter's word. Thankfully he was straight with me. I took it for four reasons: 1) UOP was an expensive school. 2) I was a broke dental student with rising credit card debt, and the stipend looked really good. 3) I worked the numbers, and even though I would be making less right out of school, it was temporary, and I would be saving tens of thousands in interest. 4) We achieved world peace (no war):laugh:.

Because we had no long summer break at UOP, we never did the ADT. No one told us to fill any papers out or do anything else, so we let it slide.

A few months before graduation the assignment officer from HRC (Human resources Command) called and told me first that I was going to be assigned to Korea... oh-kaaay. Not my first choice. Then she said Japan, then finally Fort Hood.

I graduated, took my boards and went to OBC. OBC was my first real expereince of military life. I couldn't be late for anything. I couldn't fall asleep in class (dental students are good at both). I couldn't care less about nuclear, biological and chemical weapons; or how to disassemble an M16 or M9; how to put together a radio. I'm glad that I paid attention though, because what I learned at OBC was very helpful during my deployment in Iraq. The one big thing at OBC you'll learn, or start to learn is what is expected of you as an officer. It takes time and definitely a lot of experience to learn how to carry your rank.

We all got orders near the end of OBC, looking for the key unit designators - TDA and TOE. Long story short, a TDA unit doesn't deploy whereas a TOE unit does.

I graduated from OBC the last week of August, 2001, and not long after 9/11 happened. At that point I knew it might not be such a great time to be in the Army.

I reported to my first duty station, Fort Hood in September. At that point I was assigned to the Fort Hood Dental Activity (DENTAC), which was TDA.

My typical day was: reporting for work before 8 am. Seeing patients until 12pm, starting back up again at 1pm and seeing patients until 5. I would do personal physical training (PT) at the gym after work, not with the unit as customary. In a typical day, I'd have one patient scheduled every hour, so I'd have 8 patients in a day. In my clinic, I could schedule patients from my operatory and give myself however long or short that I wanted. I had some autonomy here, I did mainly operative, and mastered the amalgam onlay, but I snuck in some fixed pros, removable pros and a whole lot of extractions.

Some days I'd be assigned to work with an extended function dental assistant (EFDA) and run two chairs...drill one patient, jump to another chair and stat another, while the EFDA fills the first. Being a new student out of school I didn't trust anyone but myself filling the teeth, especially since my name was stamped in the chart, but once I got to know the ability of the EFDAs, I had no problems.

Some days I'd be assigned to do exams all day long. Army exams are notoriously short and sweet...you're expected to do a D0120/0150 examination in 3-5 minutes. Don't sweat it, you'll learn how to become efficient doing this.

Other days I'd be pulling sick call (emergency) all day long.

I worked in a clinic where the 2 year AEGD was located. If I got stuck with anything, I'd run upstairs to a specialist and get an instant consultation.

I was one dentist in a clinic of many. My classmate was a one man show in his clinic in Germany. So be prepared for any type of situation.

A few months after getting to Hood, I was moved to a TOE unit. It was a medical company in a Forward Support Battalion. I still worked out of the same clinic, but I had to report to the medical company for assemblies, maintenance of my vehicle and other tasks. Now I was no longer an asset of DENTAC, but an asset of the medical company. I reported to them first...this was slightly frustrating, but I adjusted. With them, I'd do field training exercises, which entailed a mock exercise where we set up the field equipment. I had my own area, and the physician assistants, medics and docs had their own. As a dentist, my job was to 1) make sure that the field equipment worked and 2) when there was a mass casualty exercise, it was the my job to be the triage officer for incoming casualties.

I was moved back into DENTAC, just in time to get orders to go to Kuwait in 2003. I was PROFIS'ed (Professional Officer Filing Information System?) to a deploying unit, an Area Support Medical Company. All TDA MDs, DDSs, RNs and other professionals are PROFIS'ed to a deployable unit and will go with that unit only when theunit is deployed.

So I went to Kuwait in 2003. It was stressful for my wife and I, since we had no idea how things would end up. The war started in March, and I was back home in July. I never saw combat, and I know I'm not a combat soldier, but my Iraq deployment was one of the most rewarding experiences in my life. Just in terms of the experience alone...what I saw, what I learned. Yes it was hot and miserable, but I was part of something bigger than myself, and I'm glad I did it.

In Kuwait, I did some regular dentistry at Camp Doha. When the war started, there was no time to do any dentistry, we were constantly on the move. Not until my last month or so did I get set up to do dentistry. Army field equipment is made for expedience, not ergonomics, so it wasn't the greatest set-up. In the few instances of a mass casualty event, I was the triage officer, sorting the priority of treatment for the incoming wounded. My understanding that right now, things are built up nicely, with AC units, cleaner work environments, sand proof rooms, etc. My understanding too is that there are some humanitarian missions going on as well.

I came back home and finished up my last year in the Army. My superiors tried to entice me with a spot in the 2 year program, but I respectfully declined since I wanted out and make some money.

Transitioning from Army to civilian life actually wasn't all too bad. While I had become speedy gonzales with operative, I was woefully slow with crown and bridge and removable pros. 0 experience with implants in 3 years of the Army. Only a handful of removable pros cases. Like anything else though, speed came with time.

The Army did screw me over once. Technically it was the recruiter. Immediately after separating, I went into the IMA reserves (Individual Mobilization Augmentee). In this group of reserves, you condense your "one weekend a month/two weeks a year" obligation into a single 3-4 week ADT in a CONUS or OCONUS spot. The recruiter told me I'd be eligible for the HPLR immediately after coming off of active duty. I did one year in the IMA, but when it was pay time, I found out that I wasn't eligible. So I'm currently riding out the rest of my obligation time in the IRR to go back either into the ARNG or IMA reserves.


What do I regret?
1) Not doing an AEGD. My decision was based on the fact that I would be in longer, and I'd definitely be deployed again. What I didn't see was that I'd learn more and be able to do more in my own practice.

2) Not taking the time to understand that being a dental student/reservist meant that I could build those years into good years for retirement. One could easily make 20 good years for retirement if he/she makes use of the student years.

3) Not doing more fixed pros or implant cases. The pros specialists invited me to do some cases with them, I should have utilized them more.

What did I have to learn to accept in the military?
1) I honestly had no problem being ordered to my duty station. I wish it was someplace more exotic than central Texas though :). What I would have a problem with is packing up and moving every 4 years or so, which is one reason I didn't make it a career.

2) EFDAs are there to make operative procedures run more efficiently. I had a hard time trusting them to do a job that I was happy with. It took time, but it happened.

3) As much as I wanted to be in the clinic, if my TOE unit told me to be at place X at time Y on Z day, I had to do it.

In all, my short three years of active duty were great. I saw new places and met the best group of freinds I've ever had Now that I'm out, I'm looking for a way back in. I love the military, but I love the civilian life more, which is why having a private practice while being a "part time" soldier is the direction I'm headed.

Don't get me wrong, I had head butts with superior officers, junior officers, civilian employees, and sometimes it was my fault, but that comes with any job. There were days that I wish I wasn't in the Army (like sitting in my gas mask in the middle of the night on the first day of the war). But when it really comes down to it, if I were about to start dental school I'd sign up all over again.

It's not glamorous, and others on the forum are sure to have better ones, but that's my story.

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Great story. Very informational. How did your wife deal with your time in and how often did you see each other?
 
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What do you mean by #2 in "What I do Regret?"

How does one make use of their time as a student dentist for retirement?
 
What do you mean by #2 in "What I do Regret?"

How does one make use of their time as a student dentist for retirement?

you can't, if you are an HPSP student. while an HPSP student, the four years of dental school do not count towards retirement, time in service, or for anything else, except getting you four years of constructive credit - which is how you go straight to the rank of O-3.
 
great story teeth63a!

Can you tell us how your transition into private practice and Civilian life was? Did you work for someone initially? I would think an Army dentists would be a highly desirable associate initially. Please share ! :)
 
Great story. Very informational. How did your wife deal with your time in and how often did you see each other?

You make it sound like prison conjugal visits. :love:

My wife was not a big fan of the military. Don't get me wrong, she's a patriot and supports the military, she just didn't like the idea of *her* husband being sent off :). She tended to stay away from a lot of the officer's wives social events. She and I agreed that a military lifestyle wouldn't be great for starting a family, which is one of the reasons I came off active duty.

While I was in, it was like any regular 8-5 job. When I was at field training or away at the National Training Center, it was the civilian equivalent of a business trip.

In three years I think I got called in once for an after hours emergency.... (a belligerent drunk civilian who fell in the middle of the night and chipped her front tooth...the ER doc was hell bent on treating her, but I wasn't about to stick my fingers in her mouth, since I might be retracting bloody stumps that used to be my fingers...I gave her verbal instructions on how to put vitrebond on the pulp horn :laugh:)

Of course when I deployed, I was gone for 6 months straight. Now, soldiers get a 2 week R&R to go back home midway through their year long tour.

If any of you HPSPers are married, keep in mind that if you do deploy, it is stressful on the spouse staying at home, especially if there are kids involved. An unfortunate but necessary thing to understand. Its no coincidence that the military divorce rate is higher since the war started. Thankfully you'll have internet and phone connection to the states while you're deployed.
 
A few of you over the past couple of weeks asked how my military experience was and I thought I'd just write up a new thread. If you don't want to read the whole thing skip to the bottom...but I'll try to keep it short.

1998 - my second year of dental school and I took the 2 year HPSP scholarship. I went in wide eyed...since there was no SDN forum to turn to. I had nothing but the recruiter's word. Thankfully he was straight with me. I took it for four reasons: 1) UOP was an expensive school. 2) I was a broke dental student with rising credit card debt, and the stipend looked really good. 3) I worked the numbers, and even though I would be making less right out of school, it was temporary, and I would be saving tens of thousands in interest. 4) We achieved world peace (no war):laugh:.

Because we had no long summer break at UOP, we never did the ADT. No one told us to fill any papers out or do anything else, so we let it slide.

A few months before graduation the assignment officer from HRC (Human resources Command) called and told me first that I was going to be assigned to Korea... oh-kaaay. Not my first choice. Then she said Japan, then finally Fort Hood.

I graduated, took my boards and went to OBC. OBC was my first real expereince of military life. I couldn't be late for anything. I couldn't fall asleep in class (dental students are good at both). I couldn't care less about nuclear, biological and chemical weapons; or how to disassemble an M16 or M9; how to put together a radio. I'm glad that I paid attention though, because what I learned at OBC was very helpful during my deployment in Iraq. The one big thing at OBC you'll learn, or start to learn is what is expected of you as an officer. It takes time and definitely a lot of experience to learn how to carry your rank.

We all got orders near the end of OBC, looking for the key unit designators - TDA and TOE. Long story short, a TDA unit doesn't deploy whereas a TOE unit does.

I graduated from OBC the last week of August, 2001, and not long after 9/11 happened. At that point I knew it might not be such a great time to be in the Army.

I reported to my first duty station, Fort Hood in September. At that point I was assigned to the Fort Hood Dental Activity (DENTAC), which was TDA.

My typical day was: reporting for work before 8 am. Seeing patients until 12pm, starting back up again at 1pm and seeing patients until 5. I would do personal physical training (PT) at the gym after work, not with the unit as customary. In a typical day, I'd have one patient scheduled every hour, so I'd have 8 patients in a day. In my clinic, I could schedule patients from my operatory and give myself however long or short that I wanted. I had some autonomy here, I did mainly operative, and mastered the amalgam onlay, but I snuck in some fixed pros, removable pros and a whole lot of extractions.

Some days I'd be assigned to work with an extended function dental assistant (EFDA) and run two chairs...drill one patient, jump to another chair and stat another, while the EFDA fills the first. Being a new student out of school I didn't trust anyone but myself filling the teeth, especially since my name was stamped in the chart, but once I got to know the ability of the EFDAs, I had no problems.

Some days I'd be assigned to do exams all day long. Army exams are notoriously short and sweet...you're expected to do a D0120/0150 examination in 3-5 minutes. Don't sweat it, you'll learn how to become efficient doing this.

Other days I'd be pulling sick call (emergency) all day long.

I worked in a clinic where the 2 year AEGD was located. If I got stuck with anything, I'd run upstairs to a specialist and get an instant consultation.

I was one dentist in a clinic of many. My classmate was a one man show in his clinic in Germany. So be prepared for any type of situation.

A few months after getting to Hood, I was moved to a TOE unit. It was a medical company in a Forward Support Battalion. I still worked out of the same clinic, but I had to report to the medical company for assemblies, maintenance of my vehicle and other tasks. Now I was no longer an asset of DENTAC, but an asset of the medical company. I reported to them first...this was slightly frustrating, but I adjusted. With them, I'd do field training exercises, which entailed a mock exercise where we set up the field equipment. I had my own area, and the physician assistants, medics and docs had their own. As a dentist, my job was to 1) make sure that the field equipment worked and 2) when there was a mass casualty exercise, it was the my job to be the triage officer for incoming casualties.

I was moved back into DENTAC, just in time to get orders to go to Kuwait in 2003. I was PROFIS'ed (Professional Officer Filing Information System?) to a deploying unit, an Area Support Medical Company. All TDA MDs, DDSs, RNs and other professionals are PROFIS'ed to a deployable unit and will go with that unit only when theunit is deployed.

So I went to Kuwait in 2003. It was stressful for my wife and I, since we had no idea how things would end up. The war started in March, and I was back home in July. I never saw combat, and I know I'm not a combat soldier, but my Iraq deployment was one of the most rewarding experiences in my life. Just in terms of the experience alone...what I saw, what I learned. Yes it was hot and miserable, but I was part of something bigger than myself, and I'm glad I did it.

In Kuwait, I did some regular dentistry at Camp Doha. When the war started, there was no time to do any dentistry, we were constantly on the move. Not until my last month or so did I get set up to do dentistry. Army field equipment is made for expedience, not ergonomics, so it wasn't the greatest set-up. In the few instances of a mass casualty event, I was the triage officer, sorting the priority of treatment for the incoming wounded. My understanding that right now, things are built up nicely, with AC units, cleaner work environments, sand proof rooms, etc. My understanding too is that there are some humanitarian missions going on as well.

I came back home and finished up my last year in the Army. My superiors tried to entice me with a spot in the 2 year program, but I respectfully declined since I wanted out and make some money.

Transitioning from Army to civilian life actually wasn't all too bad. While I had become speedy gonzales with operative, I was woefully slow with crown and bridge and removable pros. 0 experience with implants in 3 years of the Army. Only a handful of removable pros cases. Like anything else though, speed came with time.

The Army did screw me over once. Technically it was the recruiter. Immediately after separating, I went into the IMA reserves (Individual Mobilization Augmentee). In this group of reserves, you condense your "one weekend a month/two weeks a year" obligation into a single 3-4 week ADT in a CONUS or OCONUS spot. The recruiter told me I'd be eligible for the HPLR immediately after coming off of active duty. I did one year in the IMA, but when it was pay time, I found out that I wasn't eligible. So I'm currently riding out the rest of my obligation time in the IRR to go back either into the ARNG or IMA reserves.


What do I regret?
1) Not doing an AEGD. My decision was based on the fact that I would be in longer, and I'd definitely be deployed again. What I didn't see was that I'd learn more and be able to do more in my own practice.

2) Not taking the time to understand that being a dental student/reservist meant that I could build those years into good years for retirement. One could easily make 20 good years for retirement if he/she makes use of the student years.

3) Not doing more fixed pros or implant cases. The pros specialists invited me to do some cases with them, I should have utilized them more.

What did I have to learn to accept in the military?
1) I honestly had no problem being ordered to my duty station. I wish it was someplace more exotic than central Texas though :). What I would have a problem with is packing up and moving every 4 years or so, which is one reason I didn't make it a career.

2) EFDAs are there to make operative procedures run more efficiently. I had a hard time trusting them to do a job that I was happy with. It took time, but it happened.

3) As much as I wanted to be in the clinic, if my TOE unit told me to be at place X at time Y on Z day, I had to do it.

In all, my short three years of active duty were great. I saw new places and met the best group of freinds I've ever had Now that I'm out, I'm looking for a way back in. I love the military, but I love the civilian life more, which is why having a private practice while being a "part time" soldier is the direction I'm headed.

Don't get me wrong, I had head butts with superior officers, junior officers, civilian employees, and sometimes it was my fault, but that comes with any job. There were days that I wish I wasn't in the Army (like sitting in my gas mask in the middle of the night on the first day of the war). But when it really comes down to it, if I were about to start dental school I'd sign up all over again.

It's not glamorous, and others on the forum are sure to have better ones, but that's my story.


Excellent synopsis, thanks for the info. I recently signed up for podiatry HPSP in the Navy. It's been hard to find many pods out there that have been in the military, but posts like this help clarify what it might be like.
 
great story teeth63a!

Can you tell us how your transition into private practice and Civilian life was? Did you work for someone initially? I would think an Army dentists would be a highly desirable associate initially. Please share ! :)

When I seperated from the army I knew I wanted to go into private practice in my home state. I could either 1) Shotgun a letter to all dentists in the area my resume, to be an associate. 2) Join a huge group practice with guaranteed income. 3) Get a military contract job and work on post as a civilian.

I chose option 2 and got paid a flat daily rate. I was very picky with who I wanted to practice with, which is why I didn't become as associate for a small office, sight unseen, without really knowing anyone or the practice philosophy. I didn't do the contract job because I wanted to get into private practice. A large group practice provided a guaranteed check no matter what, and at the very least I'm exposed to private practice.

What I didn't do (and should have) was to talk to local reps about offices who were hiring associates, which would have narrowed down my search.

I stayed at that office for a few years before I was ready to purchase a partnership in 2008.

So immediately after seperating from the military, your skills and training would suit:
a military contract job (high paying but not challenging)
a prison contract job (high paying, definitely not challenging, and potentially dangerous)

and of course the traditional options are
associate
group practice employee
practice purchase
practice start up

Currently, I have government contract jobs that I supplement my private practice income with.
 
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you can't, if you are an HPSP student. while an HPSP student, the four years of dental school do not count towards retirement, time in service, or for anything else, except getting you four years of constructive credit - which is how you go straight to the rank of O-3.


Not entirely true.

I was handed a memo dated 23 Sep 2002 from my reserve RTU commander (who was an HPSP recip.) stating certain HPSP recipients can have their student years count for retirement.

"SUBJECT: Policy guidance on reserve service credit for participation in DOD health professions scholarship and financial assistance program."

"2....This section permits service performed in pursuit of a course of study under Chapter 105 of Title 10, USC by Armed Forces Health PRofessions Scholarship and Financial Aissitance Program participants to be counted for points and years of satisfactory service for Reserve retirement under chapter 1223 of Title 10, USC. Service credit will be awarded to HPSP/FAP participants who subsequently serve in the Selected Reserves in a critical wartime shortage specialty after completing their active duty service obligation incurred for receipt of program benefits."

"4...For each year a former HPSP/FAP participant performs satisfactory service in the SELRES, commencing on or after 23 Sep 1996 the officer will be credited with 50 retirement points and one year of service credit for retirement purposes..."

Translation:

For each year in the HPSP, you can get ONE year counted for retirement, and 65 retirement points (15 "gratuity" and 50 for HPSP). BUT ONLY in exchange for each year in the Selected Reserve (IMA or TPU).

How does this help someone?

Long story short, an Army dentist can achieve enough good years (20) for retirement much sooner than before:

4 years HPSP +
12 years active duty+
4 years reserves
=20 good years for retirement

as opposed to 20 years of straight active duty.

The only caveat is that this applies to dentists from 1998-2002 (on the critical shortage list). Now there may be a newer memo, and if someone has it, they could confirm the updated fiscal years.

This info is probably over the heads of a lot of you predents and students, but the bottom line is this:

to get the full military pension (which is 50% of your base pay) you'd need to serve 20 years active duty. And you'll get this immediately when you retire.

to get any other type of military pension requires a mix of active/reserve/guard years, each year weighted with a certain amount of points. The amount of points determines what your pension will be. Points come from active duty time, battle assemblies and CE courses. Keep in mind the pension will never be as much as an active duty retiree. Also, you couldn't collect until you're 60.

Currently I'm in the process of clearing this up with AMEDD points section at HRC, so I'll post as this progresses.
 
teeth63a,

Would you feel comfortable buying an existing practice as soon as you seperated from active duty? In your opinion would this be a wise decision for someone who did not moonlight during his/her active duty payback?
 
teeth63a,

Would you feel comfortable buying an existing practice as soon as you seperated from active duty? In your opinion would this be a wise decision for someone who did not moonlight during his/her active duty payback?

No,I would not have felt comfortable buying into a practice right out of active duty. I didn't think I was fast enough and had no idea on how to run a private practice. I would be totally at the whim of the existing employees (if they chose to stay!).

If you are looking to go right into a purchase situation right after active duty, I would recommend becoming an associate first to build up speed and business experience. Then if its a practice you like, do a transitional buy in, where you buy more shares of the practice over a determined length of time (like taking a mortgage out on a house). The big advantage of this kind of buy in is that the seller is there with you along the whole way, because he'll need you to succeed in order to be paid off. Also, you won't need a whole lot of money at one time to buy him out. An outright buy out is a lot riskier and requires one lump sum of cash. Employee and patient attrition is a risk. Being an associate for a year or two is definitely a smart thing to do before even thinking of a buy in, so you can see how the business cycle flows at the practice...you'lll see the busy periods, slow periods, etc.
 
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Thanks 63a for an excellent, honest, and fair post of your military experience. I think it stresses a crucial point to those considering the HPSP scholarship. If you are in a committed relationship, your significant other needs to be completely on board because when you deploy (and you probably will), their job will be as hard, if not harder, while you are away, especially with children.
Also, recent changes made last year have made PROFIS deployments no longer than 6 months. If you are with a field unit, you will still be deployed as long as they are (12 months right now), but they do bring some dentists back for their residencies.
 
Service credit will be awarded to HPSP/FAP participants who subsequently serve in the Selected Reserves in a critical wartime shortage specialty after completing their active duty service obligation incurred for receipt of program benefits."

yeah, this part is the key to doing this.

i was just referring the dentist just going onto active duty, however. i think the language used in this particular section excludes most everyone serving now, or thinking about serving.

i bet you will have an up-hill battle trying to get your HPSP time counted, as this section will probably be interpreted differently by several different people, because it probably used so little that it isn't properly defined anywhere.

it was a PITA to get my prior service counted up and correctly counted (maybe because i had a combo of ARNG, AD, enlisted and commissioned time before going AD).

i'm not looking forward to having this all re-done when i get off of AD (8+ years from now) and go back to the ARNG.
 
I was asked this:

Hey, thanks for responding. I was wondering how I could better help myself transition into private practice directly out of the military. How could I best use the military to springboard into private practice? I took a 4 year HPSP and I look forward to serving in the Army but I want to own a practice after I get out. I saw from your post that you said you were slow at some procedures after coming out and I just wanted to know if you had any thoughts on how to avoid that in hindsight.

Also, I plan on doing IRR. Would you wait to own you own practice until you have served that time?

The best way to transition yourself to private practice is to moonlight. But as mentioned elsewhere, you really don't have a lot of time to do it. It sounds like you all are in a rush to get out there into private practice, which is awesome, but getting some experience first as an associate or employee is my recommendation.

As I mentioned in my post, I should have taken the initiative myself and done more procedures above and beyond the drilling and filling.

Regarding the IRR, we actually don't have a choice in the matter. All dentists go into the IRR for the balance of their 8 year obligation time if they seperate from active duty.

In the IRR, I believe you are still eligible for Army sponsored CE travel and courses. You still have commissary and PX privileges. Also in the IRR, if you think you have the slightest chance of going back into the reserves or active duty, you should use these years to earn points for retirement. YOu can do this through a Reinforcement Training Unit, a type of IRR unit that meets for retirements points only and not pay (I'll have more on this in another post).

I would not wait until my IRR time is over to start a practice. I was into my 4th IRR year when I bought my practice. Yes, theoretically, we all could get called back into active duty from the IRR, but as far as I know (after talking to many IMA reserve commanders and the career manager) no dentist has been called from the IRR. Fortunately, there are enough dental students signing up for the HPSP :). We would need to invade Iran and North Korea at the same time while maintaing a presence in Iraq and Afghanistan for dentists to be called back. Ok that may be an exaggeration, but so far no dentists have been called back. In 2003 a lot of dentists were stop lossed, but that isn't the case any more.
 
you can't, if you are an HPSP student. while an HPSP student, the four years of dental school do not count towards retirement, time in service, or for anything else, except getting you four years of constructive credit - which is how you go straight to the rank of O-3.

The Navy's HSCP program does allow you to do this, as well as the National Guards program from what I understand. So there are programs out there that allow you to take advantage of your years in school, towards retirement.
 
national guard - yes, but remember, that a full year of national guard retirement points is only about 1/4 the number of points you get from being on active duty for a full year. i.e. it takes about four years of national guard time to be equal to one year of active duty, in regards to retirement pay.
 
national guard - yes, but remember, that a full year of national guard retirement points is only about 1/4 the number of points you get from being on active duty for a full year. i.e. it takes about four years of national guard time to be equal to one year of active duty, in regards to retirement pay.


Thankfully its a little more than 1/4.

The new maximum points allowable for nondeployed Guard and Reservists is 130 (previously 90). So the good news is that ARNG/USAR yearly point equivalent to an active year is 35%, not 25%.

Like I mentioned in my post, the longer one is in active duty, the bigger the pension will be, since each active year is 365 points.
 
How would a non-deployed/activated Guard or Reservist even come close to 130 points in a year? Drill would only give you 48 points, 15 points for being active in the Guard, and 15 for annual training equals 78. Are there other ways to get retirement points that I'm not aware of?
 
How would a non-deployed/activated Guard or Reservist even come close to 130 points in a year? Drill would only give you 48 points, 15 points for being active in the Guard, and 15 for annual training equals 78. Are there other ways to get retirement points that I'm not aware of?

Oh yes there are points hiding everywhere :D

Two main sources are
1) correspondence and CE courses. Each 3 hours of CE=1 retirement point. Dental CE courses are free online (like www.insidedentistryce.com ). Army correspondence courses are found at www.train.army.mil. I took the hooah4health course which was 21 credit hours, which translates to 7 points.

2) Join a Reinforcement Training Unit (I'm in one right now).
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/rtu.htm
http://imad.redstone.army.mil/ReinforcementTrainingUnitInfoLetter05302007_2.htm
You meet for points only, not pay. Depending how often you go and what you do, you can get up to 5 points/month or 60 points a year. This is meant for IRR soldiers to meet for retirement points, but reservists and guardsmen can meet as well. Meetings are voluntary and not mandatory, so people just come when they can.

Army correspondences courses are tracked automatically on your record at the HRC website. CE and RTU points need to be submitted on DA 1379 or 1380 (depending on your situation).

One more thing, the 130 points only applies to gratutity, drill and correspondence points. If you do any active duty time, or AT/ADT, it counts ABOVE the 130 points. So if I max out 130 points but go on a 30 day AT, I can get 160 days. This was told to me by a COL in my RTU.

I've learned this only recently, and if anyone sees something wrong, by all means correct me.
 
My packet for the ARNG is in, I'm just waiting for HRC to cut me loose from the USAR/IRR, and then orders will be cut for the ARNG.

I'm about to sign the 3 year/$75,000 accession bonus ($25k/year).
 
My packet for the ARNG is in, I'm just waiting for HRC to cut me loose from the USAR/IRR, and then orders will be cut for the ARNG.

I'm about to sign the 3 year/$75,000 accession bonus ($25k/year).

I wasn't sure if the bonus was available for those who had just left active duty. Somebody had told me about a waiting period before you would be eligible for that bonus. Glad to see that isn't the case. Good Luck!
 
I wasn't sure if the bonus was available for those who had just left active duty. Somebody had told me about a waiting period before you would be eligible for that bonus. Glad to see that isn't the case. Good Luck!
No, you're still correct. I waited 4 long years (since 2004) for my MSO to expire in order to be eligible for this. I left AD in 2004, received HPSP 2001, MSO is up in 2009.
 
So if I am reading this right a person isn't eligible for the $25k/year bonus until after their 8 year MSO is up? I have only served 3 years of the 8 year MSO, but the Guard recruiters have been telling me i am eligible for the $25k per year bonus for three years and then $50k loan replayment over the next three years. Is there somewhere online that has exclusions to the bonuses listed?
 
So if I am reading this right a person isn't eligible for the $25k/year bonus until after their 8 year MSO is up? I have only served 3 years of the 8 year MSO, but the Guard recruiters have been telling me i am eligible for the $25k per year bonus for three years and then $50k loan replayment over the next three years. Is there somewhere online that has exclusions to the bonuses listed?


Oooo. Yeah this is something we need to get to the bottom of. Ill get a second opinion from my ARNG recruiter. I'll let you know.

It worked out like this for me only because i originally thought I'd be going USAR DIMA or TPU. It just so happened that I looked into the ARNG and it happened to be the best fit right now.
 
According to my recruiter who verified this with his POC on the national level, someone coming off active duty can get the ARNG Health Profession Bonus and does not have to wait for the original HPSP MSO to expire.

You should of course reverify this if you're thinking about going into the ARNG.
 
A few of you over the past couple of weeks asked how my military experience was and I thought I'd just write up a new thread. If you don't want to read the whole thing skip to the bottom...but I'll try to keep it short.

1998 - my second year of dental school and I took the 2 year HPSP scholarship. I went in wide eyed...since there was no SDN forum to turn to. I had nothing but the recruiter's word. Thankfully he was straight with me. I took it for four reasons: 1) UOP was an expensive school. 2) I was a broke dental student with rising credit card debt, and the stipend looked really good. 3) I worked the numbers, and even though I would be making less right out of school, it was temporary, and I would be saving tens of thousands in interest. 4) We achieved world peace (no war):laugh:.

Because we had no long summer break at UOP, we never did the ADT. No one told us to fill any papers out or do anything else, so we let it slide.

A few months before graduation the assignment officer from HRC (Human resources Command) called and told me first that I was going to be assigned to Korea... oh-kaaay. Not my first choice. Then she said Japan, then finally Fort Hood.

I graduated, took my boards and went to OBC. OBC was my first real expereince of military life. I couldn't be late for anything. I couldn't fall asleep in class (dental students are good at both). I couldn't care less about nuclear, biological and chemical weapons; or how to disassemble an M16 or M9; how to put together a radio. I'm glad that I paid attention though, because what I learned at OBC was very helpful during my deployment in Iraq. The one big thing at OBC you'll learn, or start to learn is what is expected of you as an officer. It takes time and definitely a lot of experience to learn how to carry your rank.

We all got orders near the end of OBC, looking for the key unit designators - TDA and TOE. Long story short, a TDA unit doesn't deploy whereas a TOE unit does.

I graduated from OBC the last week of August, 2001, and not long after 9/11 happened. At that point I knew it might not be such a great time to be in the Army.

I reported to my first duty station, Fort Hood in September. At that point I was assigned to the Fort Hood Dental Activity (DENTAC), which was TDA.

My typical day was: reporting for work before 8 am. Seeing patients until 12pm, starting back up again at 1pm and seeing patients until 5. I would do personal physical training (PT) at the gym after work, not with the unit as customary. In a typical day, I'd have one patient scheduled every hour, so I'd have 8 patients in a day. In my clinic, I could schedule patients from my operatory and give myself however long or short that I wanted. I had some autonomy here, I did mainly operative, and mastered the amalgam onlay, but I snuck in some fixed pros, removable pros and a whole lot of extractions.

Some days I'd be assigned to work with an extended function dental assistant (EFDA) and run two chairs...drill one patient, jump to another chair and stat another, while the EFDA fills the first. Being a new student out of school I didn't trust anyone but myself filling the teeth, especially since my name was stamped in the chart, but once I got to know the ability of the EFDAs, I had no problems.

Some days I'd be assigned to do exams all day long. Army exams are notoriously short and sweet...you're expected to do a D0120/0150 examination in 3-5 minutes. Don't sweat it, you'll learn how to become efficient doing this.

Other days I'd be pulling sick call (emergency) all day long.

I worked in a clinic where the 2 year AEGD was located. If I got stuck with anything, I'd run upstairs to a specialist and get an instant consultation.

I was one dentist in a clinic of many. My classmate was a one man show in his clinic in Germany. So be prepared for any type of situation.

A few months after getting to Hood, I was moved to a TOE unit. It was a medical company in a Forward Support Battalion. I still worked out of the same clinic, but I had to report to the medical company for assemblies, maintenance of my vehicle and other tasks. Now I was no longer an asset of DENTAC, but an asset of the medical company. I reported to them first...this was slightly frustrating, but I adjusted. With them, I'd do field training exercises, which entailed a mock exercise where we set up the field equipment. I had my own area, and the physician assistants, medics and docs had their own. As a dentist, my job was to 1) make sure that the field equipment worked and 2) when there was a mass casualty exercise, it was the my job to be the triage officer for incoming casualties.

I was moved back into DENTAC, just in time to get orders to go to Kuwait in 2003. I was PROFIS'ed (Professional Officer Filing Information System?) to a deploying unit, an Area Support Medical Company. All TDA MDs, DDSs, RNs and other professionals are PROFIS'ed to a deployable unit and will go with that unit only when theunit is deployed.

So I went to Kuwait in 2003. It was stressful for my wife and I, since we had no idea how things would end up. The war started in March, and I was back home in July. I never saw combat, and I know I'm not a combat soldier, but my Iraq deployment was one of the most rewarding experiences in my life. Just in terms of the experience alone...what I saw, what I learned. Yes it was hot and miserable, but I was part of something bigger than myself, and I'm glad I did it.

In Kuwait, I did some regular dentistry at Camp Doha. When the war started, there was no time to do any dentistry, we were constantly on the move. Not until my last month or so did I get set up to do dentistry. Army field equipment is made for expedience, not ergonomics, so it wasn't the greatest set-up. In the few instances of a mass casualty event, I was the triage officer, sorting the priority of treatment for the incoming wounded. My understanding that right now, things are built up nicely, with AC units, cleaner work environments, sand proof rooms, etc. My understanding too is that there are some humanitarian missions going on as well.

I came back home and finished up my last year in the Army. My superiors tried to entice me with a spot in the 2 year program, but I respectfully declined since I wanted out and make some money.

Transitioning from Army to civilian life actually wasn't all too bad. While I had become speedy gonzales with operative, I was woefully slow with crown and bridge and removable pros. 0 experience with implants in 3 years of the Army. Only a handful of removable pros cases. Like anything else though, speed came with time.

The Army did screw me over once. Technically it was the recruiter. Immediately after separating, I went into the IMA reserves (Individual Mobilization Augmentee). In this group of reserves, you condense your "one weekend a month/two weeks a year" obligation into a single 3-4 week ADT in a CONUS or OCONUS spot. The recruiter told me I'd be eligible for the HPLR immediately after coming off of active duty. I did one year in the IMA, but when it was pay time, I found out that I wasn't eligible. So I'm currently riding out the rest of my obligation time in the IRR to go back either into the ARNG or IMA reserves.


What do I regret?
1) Not doing an AEGD. My decision was based on the fact that I would be in longer, and I'd definitely be deployed again. What I didn't see was that I'd learn more and be able to do more in my own practice.

2) Not taking the time to understand that being a dental student/reservist meant that I could build those years into good years for retirement. One could easily make 20 good years for retirement if he/she makes use of the student years.

3) Not doing more fixed pros or implant cases. The pros specialists invited me to do some cases with them, I should have utilized them more.

What did I have to learn to accept in the military?
1) I honestly had no problem being ordered to my duty station. I wish it was someplace more exotic than central Texas though :). What I would have a problem with is packing up and moving every 4 years or so, which is one reason I didn't make it a career.

2) EFDAs are there to make operative procedures run more efficiently. I had a hard time trusting them to do a job that I was happy with. It took time, but it happened.

3) As much as I wanted to be in the clinic, if my TOE unit told me to be at place X at time Y on Z day, I had to do it.

In all, my short three years of active duty were great. I saw new places and met the best group of freinds I've ever had Now that I'm out, I'm looking for a way back in. I love the military, but I love the civilian life more, which is why having a private practice while being a "part time" soldier is the direction I'm headed.

Don't get me wrong, I had head butts with superior officers, junior officers, civilian employees, and sometimes it was my fault, but that comes with any job. There were days that I wish I wasn't in the Army (like sitting in my gas mask in the middle of the night on the first day of the war). But when it really comes down to it, if I were about to start dental school I'd sign up all over again.

It's not glamorous, and others on the forum are sure to have better ones, but that's my story.


I know a mechanic whose son went to army dentistry. He's now (unless again promoted) a major in endodontics. At any rate, the guy's dad was telling me once how in training a truck load of shot up goats were brought in and the dental students had to learn how to deal with that. Would an army dentist ever have such an engagement?
 
I know a mechanic whose son went to army dentistry. He's now (unless again promoted) a major in endodontics. At any rate, the guy's dad was telling me once how in training a truck load of shot up goats were brought in and the dental students had to learn how to deal with that. Would an army dentist ever have such an engagement?


I think the story might have got sensationalized in passing. I took ATLS where we worked on goats who were under anesthesia and then put down afterwards, this course was overseas. At least as far as dentists are concerned in the Army since the year 1999 I am unaware of any training, "where they just shoot up a bunch of goats and dropped them off."

Down at Camp Bullis when I was there at the start of this year they now have a simulation lab that has very advanced manikins which can mimic many battle time injuries.
 
I know a mechanic whose son went to army dentistry. He's now (unless again promoted) a major in endodontics. At any rate, the guy's dad was telling me once how in training a truck load of shot up goats were brought in and the dental students had to learn how to deal with that. Would an army dentist ever have such an engagement?

This sounds a lot like the "goat lab" that SF medics go through. PITA is never happy about it apparently, but it sounds like some good training.

I wouldn't mind.
 
Signed the contract 2 weeks ago and swore in...I'm officially in the National Guard. I took the $75,000/3 year contract. Good times!
 
Signed the contract 2 weeks ago and swore in...I'm officially in the National Guard. I took the $75,000/3 year contract. Good times!

that's loan repayment, not an actual bonus, right?

either way, it's a good deal. my plan is to go back to the national guard when i've had enough active duty.
 
that's loan repayment, not an actual bonus, right?

either way, it's a good deal. my plan is to go back to the national guard when i've had enough active duty.

Nope, Bonus. They offer $25k/year for 3 years I believe for dentists.
 
that's loan repayment, not an actual bonus, right?

either way, it's a good deal. my plan is to go back to the national guard when i've had enough active duty.


Definitely bonus.

http://www.nationalguard.com/benefits/officer.php

The information here is sketchy, but its the Army Bonus Program. $25,000/year per year, up to three years.

The other is a loan repayment, payable $20,000 the first year, $20,000 the second and $10,000 the third.

Both are taxable :mad:. Contract can be renewed assuming program is funded. Cash in hand is better, so I went with the bonus and not the loan repayment. Contract can be signed for 1, 2 or 3 years.
 
My packet for the ARNG is in, I'm just waiting for HRC to cut me loose from the USAR/IRR, and then orders will be cut for the ARNG.

I'm about to sign the 3 year/$75,000 accession bonus ($25k/year).

So, if you sign up 3 years with the guard, then you can be eligible for both $75k and loan repayment of $50k? The assumption is that you have to finish your 8 years of MSO(active + IRR). Am I correct?

I heard from the reserve rep that dentists are eligible for 75k bounus in the active reserve, and I am not sure if it is the same thing with the guard.
 
So, if you sign up 3 years with the guard, then you can be eligible for both $75k and loan repayment of $50k? The assumption is that you have to finish your 8 years of MSO(active + IRR). Am I correct?

I heard from the reserve rep that dentists are eligible for 75k bounus in the active reserve, and I am not sure if it is the same thing with the guard.

I followed up on hawk2thdoc's post (#27)... You don't have to wait for your original contract to expire from the regular army to go into the ARNG. However, you may not be eligible for the Reserve bonus. That's how it was in 2005, it may be different now.
 
HI there....I am interested in Dentistry and read your story.
It was really very informative...But I ve a question that what is AGED and why do you regret not doing...Was it really important..??
 
I followed up on hawk2thdoc's post (#27)... You don't have to wait for your original contract to expire from the regular army to go into the ARNG. However, you may not be eligible for the Reserve bonus. That's how it was in 2005, it may be different now.

Docs
Does any one know some good websites where associate positions are posted? I will be going to california. Any websites will be good.
thanks a lot
 
Took my first APFT (Army Phisycal Fitness Test) since 2005...I'm not the PT stud I once was, but passed allright. it didn't help that there was a sewage plant about a hundred yards from our test area.
 
Took my first APFT (Army Phisycal Fitness Test) since 2005...I'm not the PT stud I once was, but passed allright. it didn't help that there was a sewage plant about a hundred yards from our test area.

Sorry, but why didn't you join the army reserve? don't they have a similar program? And also, you just joined ACTIVE reserves right? Isn't there a possibility (a likely one) to be called AD and deployed? $75K sounds awesome, but it seems there may be a catch?
 
Sorry, but why didn't you join the army reserve? don't they have a similar program? And also, you just joined ACTIVE reserves right? Isn't there a possibility (a likely one) to be called AD and deployed? $75K sounds awesome, but it seems there may be a catch?

There are pros and cons to each one. Sometimes you may not have a reserve unit located near you or they may not have openings or vice versa.

They have different pots of money so they may not offer the same bonuses or perks. For example in the Guard you can get Tuition Assistance or free tuition at some state schools since the state owns the guard.

Yes there is a very real possibility to get deployed for 90 days. Deployments for the Reserve/Guard come up every 2-3 yrs - so more than likely you will deploy if you join.
 
Not entirely true.

I was handed a memo dated 23 Sep 2002 from my reserve RTU commander (who was an HPSP recip.) stating certain HPSP recipients can have their student years count for retirement.

"SUBJECT: Policy guidance on reserve service credit for participation in DOD health professions scholarship and financial assistance program."

.....

Currently I'm in the process of clearing this up with AMEDD points section at HRC, so I'll post as this progresses.

This is exactly my situation, and I've been trying to run down more information. Before I went Army, an Air Force recruiter explained how they would award credit for my HPSP years as good reserve years, but, so far, the Army seems unaware of this. Were you able to find any more information? Any chance I could get a copy of this memo somehow? Thanks for the informative post!
 
I'm a dentist who just joined the Dental Corps Reserve but I haven't been commissioned yet. Could you please explain the basic difference in deployment time and the time intervals for deployment for DIMA and TPU units? Thank You.
 
I'm a dentist who just joined the Dental Corps Reserve but I haven't been commissioned yet. Could you please explain the basic difference in deployment time and the time intervals for deployment for DIMA and TPU units? Thank You.

Deployments are 90 days - may be in Theater or orther military bases (most in Theater). The 90 days does not include time getting ready to go or getting ready to go home (turning in equipment, etc...).

I met several DIMA folks last month that had recently returned from deployments to Iraq.

Deployments should occur once every 2-3 yrs in the reserve.
 
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