MD & DO Online medical school (Didactics only)

[Dagrimsta1]

Eventually all medical schools will shift to an online based curriculum and come into class only for practice patient encounters and in class presentations/OMM (if in DO school) and maybe exams (but examsoft has been changing this as well).

There are new materials put forth almost every other year for board review (Boards and Beyond, Sketchy, AMBOSS etc.) The need of in class lecture has become obsolete and I think only exists to keep professors with a job and for the gunners who insist they learn better by sitting in the front and asking questions.

There are schools that have already removed cadavers and dissection labs from anatomy and switched to a completely lecture based program. Complete Anatomy can be a great tool for this.

Most lecture students don't even go to class and watch the lectures at their own time anyway.

I think unless the current teaching paradigm (powerpoint and exams) shift, a lot of professors will be out of a job, and this goes for undergrad too now that I think about it.

What do you guys think? Obviously this would only work for the first 2 years (basic sciences).

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[ndafife]

Eventually all medical schools will shift to an online based curriculum and come into class only for practice patient encounters and in class presentations/OMM (if in DO school) and maybe exams (but examsoft has been changing this as well).

There are new materials put forth almost every other year for board review (Boards and Beyond, Sketchy, AMBOSS etc.) The need of in class lecture has become obsolete and I think only exists to keep professors with a job and for the gunners who insist they learn better by sitting in the front and asking questions.

There are schools that have already removed cadavers and dissection labs from anatomy and switched to a completely lecture based program. Complete Anatomy can be a great tool for this.

Most lecture students don't even go to class and watch the lectures at their own time anyway.

The general trend in preclinical education seems to be more toward a PBL/flipped classroom type. Maybe in person lectures will go the way of exclusive online lectures.

I think unless the current teaching paradigm (powerpoint and exams) shift, a lot of professors will be out of a job, and this goes for undergrad too now that I think about it.

Maybe its just me but I found teaching was more of a secondary duty for people who were primarily there for research. So I doubt many professors would be out of a job. And even then someone is going to have to review and update the lectures periodically and be available for question/answers.

 

[afib123]

100 percent. Reduce the cost of medical school to a fraction of what it is now and make it all online. This ridiculous flipped classroom or whatever was brought on to prevent this from happening and keeping med school costs high.

 

[de Ribas]

Eventually all medical schools will shift to an online based curriculum and come into class only for practice patient encounters and in class presentations/OMM (if in DO school) and maybe exams (but examsoft has been changing this as well).

There are new materials put forth almost every other year for board review (Boards and Beyond, Sketchy, AMBOSS etc.) The need of in class lecture has become obsolete and I think only exists to keep professors with a job and for the gunners who insist they learn better by sitting in the front and asking questions.

There are schools that have already removed cadavers and dissection labs from anatomy and switched to a completely lecture based program. Complete Anatomy can be a great tool for this.

Most lecture students don't even go to class and watch the lectures at their own time anyway.

I think unless the current teaching paradigm (powerpoint and exams) shift, a lot of professors will be out of a job, and this goes for undergrad too now that I think about it.

What do you guys think? Obviously this would only work for the first 2 years (basic sciences).

Who is going to do research and update and supply lecture material. These online/recorded lectures still need same people to record that material. These materials need to be renewed regularly.

Even though most students watch recorded lectures, lots of students still interact with professors and do research during first 2 years with these professors.

 

[libertyyne]

the professors will do research, curate exams, answer questions, lead pbl sessions, have small group clinic days,labs etc... wont really be out of a job since most professors at MD schools have other stuff going on in terms of research.

Medical school may morph into a self driven process where you have checkpoints throughout. So some people might finish preclinicals in 6 months, others might take 4 years, eventally reaching the competency expected to pass step 1 and move forward. It might even be interesting to push all preclinical preparation to UG and expect people to take step to gain admission into medical school and promptly be shoved into clinicals.

 

[ooh a bean]

100 percent. Reduce the cost of medical school to a fraction of what it is now and make it all online. This ridiculous flipped classroom or whatever was brought on to prevent this from happening and keeping med school costs high.

Flipped classroom is literally a symptom of schools trying to justify their tuition and the "superiority of their curriculum."

 

[libertyyne]

Flipped classroom is literally a symptom of schools trying to justify their tuition and the "superiority of their curriculum."

schools dont really have to justify anything for their tuition. Its not like they are paying for teachers during education in clinical years yet they continue to collect full tuition. You gotta pay the troll toll ...

 

[Raney Schauer]

(but examsoft has been changing this as well).

Even with Examsoft you still have to have proctored exams, otherwise it would be too simple to have the exam on an iPad and your laptop open with Notability or whatever and every answer is right there. So you have to show up for that, sims, clinical skills, interest groups, and a million other little things. Lecture is only a small part of the day.

 

[7331poas]

Even better idea. Have no "preclinical curriculum". Just have students take STEP 1 as their entrance exam then apply to the last two years of medical school.

 

[afib123]

Starting second year I rarely went to class and got a pretty high score (top 10 percent of the country) with boards and beyond, pathoma, and sketchy. Those three resources should not be worth $50,000 a year. I and many others can get 250+ on step 1 without ever going to a single class which makes pre-clinicals and the money paid for it utterly useless.

I can hire my own trained standardized patient, get together with fellow classmates and go take the in class tests in a testing center with trained proctors for fraction of the cost.

3rd and 4th year I don't have any problems with(well other than the fact that we pay tuiton during away rotations, maybe that tuition covers for away rotation).

I think all the people that comment on the 100k worthiness in the first 2 years should go to med school and pay for the first 2 years, but poor people like me should be allowed to take step 1 without having to spend 100k.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Eventually all medical schools will shift to an online based curriculum and come into class only for practice patient encounters and in class presentations/OMM (if in DO school) and maybe exams (but examsoft has been changing this as well).

There are new materials put forth almost every other year for board review (Boards and Beyond, Sketchy, AMBOSS etc.) The need of in class lecture has become obsolete and I think only exists to keep professors with a job and for the gunners who insist they learn better by sitting in the front and asking questions.

There are schools that have already removed cadavers and dissection labs from anatomy and switched to a completely lecture based program. Complete Anatomy can be a great tool for this.

Most lecture students don't even go to class and watch the lectures at their own time anyway.

I think unless the current teaching paradigm (powerpoint and exams) shift, a lot of professors will be out of a job, and this goes for undergrad too now that I think about it.

What do you guys think? Obviously this would only work for the first 2 years (basic sciences).

They would not allow this from the top-down because it removes the whole justification of med school.
Still I think there's benefit to being on campus. Some schools have busy weeks in ms1 and don't even have that much actual lecture. Also, anything other than cadaver anatomy is nonsense. You can argue that learning half of med school is nonsense too but that's a separate issue - if you're going to do anatomy (or any other subject) then it should at least be done properly.

 

[nimbus]

They would not allow this from the top-down because it removes the whole justification of med school.
Still I think there's benefit to being on campus. Some schools have busy weeks in ms1 and don't even have that much actual lecture. Also, anything other than cadaver anatomy is nonsense. You can argue that learning half of med school is nonsense too but that's a separate issue - if you're going to do anatomy (or any other subject) then it should at least be done properly.

Cadaver anatomy is born more of tradition than anything else. I think med students should learn anatomy the way they will actually use it, by imaging.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Cadaver anatomy is born more of tradition than anything else. I think med students should learn anatomy the way they will actually use it, by imaging.

You need to learn the basics first before learning imaging. Good anatomy programs heavily integrate imaging into their anatomy curriculum.

 

[7331poas]

You need to learn the basics first before learning imaging. Good anatomy programs heavily integrate imaging into their anatomy curriculum.

I do not think there is any benefit to cadavers in medical school. Its just a very expensive novelty. Just my opinion though.

 

[afib123]

The problem with med school is lack of choice. If taking out the cadavers will reduce the cost, people should have a option to take that money and study without the cadavers with other modalities and pass their exams.

If people so badly want the cadavers, pay for it and study.

Same with first 2 years. I want to see if a self-study option is available to use outside resources and just take Step 1, how many people are going to pay for the first 2 years. I for sure would not pay a penny and take step 1 with self-studying.

 

[de Ribas]

The problem with med school is lack of choice. If taking out the cadavers will reduce the cost, people should have a option to take that money and study without the cadavers with other modalities and pass their exams.

If people so badly want the cadavers, pay for it and study.

Same with first 2 years. I want to see if a self-study option is available to use outside resources and just take Step 1, how many people are going to pay for the first 2 years. I for sure would not pay a penny and take step 1 with self-studying.

We should also get rid of middle and high school and college. Just let people study on their own and take ACT/SAT. Then just take MCAT with self studying and then STEP 1. That way we will save so much money and time. Some also will be able to start residency when they are 15 or so.

 

[libertyyne]

We should also get rid of middle and high school and college. Just let people study on their own and take ACT/SAT. Then just take MCAT with self studying and then STEP 1. That way we will save so much money and time. Some also will be able to start residency when they are 15 or so.

i know you are being sarcastic, but the future of education looks like this. No need to sit through lectures at the pace of the lowest common denominator when you can be challenged and tested based on your personal competency.

 

[afib123]

We should also get rid of middle and high school and college. Just let people study on their own and take ACT/SAT. Then just take MCAT with self studying and then STEP 1. That way we will save so much money and time. Some also will be able to start residency when they are 15 or so.

Definitely. Putting together people with different skill sets and shunting the smart one and putting pressure on the not so smart one is an old system that can be replaced by letting people work at their own pace per their skillset and ability.
Might not work in middle school and high school practically because most people are immature to self-study and make decisions on their own, but will 100% percent work in med school and undergrad where majority already study on their own
And more than anything it will save my kids a ton of money. I paid 100k in the first 2 years of med school for self-studying with outside resources, which is ridiculous

 

[libertyyne]

Definitely. Putting together people with different skill sets and shunting the smart one and putting pressure on the not so smart one is an old system that can be replaced by letting people work at their own pace per their skillset and ability.
Might not work in middle school and high school practically because most people are immature to self-study and make decisions on their own, but will 100% percent work in med school and undergrad where majority already study on their own
And more than anything it will save my kids a ton of money. I paid 100k in the first 2 years of med school for self-studying with outside resources, which is ridiculous

they have been trialing self paced competency based education even in middle school for math and science .

 

[DOFOSHO]

maybe the professors need to do a better job and lose the crappy powerpoints and teach like the dude from pathoma or najeeb. if the professors lose their jobs its their own damn faults for doing a bad job.

 

[Gurby]

i know you are being sarcastic, but the future of education looks like this. No need to sit through lectures at the pace of the lowest common denominator when you can be challenged and tested based on your personal competency.

I feel like I've experienced a lot of personal growth over the past ~2 years due to the required things my school has had us do.

I could have learned the science part of medicine faster if I had just sat in a room doing Anki all day... but something about being exposed to all these different people and perspectives feels important too, though I can't put my finger on what/why/how.

 

[Med Ed]

What do you guys think? Obviously this would only work for the first 2 years (basic sciences).

For schools that don't have mandatory lecture I think we're basically already there. But I have a few notes for you:

On a cost-per-hour basis, the lecture component of preclinical is the cheapest element of medical school. It is much more expensive to run the clinical education side.

From an institutional perspective, teaching medical students has historically been a low priority. With some exceptions, the PhD's are individuals without substantial grant support who are tasked to do the departmental scutwork, and the MD's are chosen by their departments because of low clinical productivity. The persistent stereotype of medical students as neurotic Type-A's who just want to be spoon-fed doesn't enhance the appeal.

A few decades ago some schools did tinker with completely home-based preclinical tracks. They found that highly motivated students could indeed pass the board exam with no structured classes. These pilot tracks were abandoned when it was generally agreed that passing a test while lacking any social acculturation to medical practice was less than ideal.

 

[nimbus]

We should also get rid of middle and high school and college. Just let people study on their own and take ACT/SAT. Then just take MCAT with self studying and then STEP 1. That way we will save so much money and time. Some also will be able to start residency when they are 15 or so.

i know you are being sarcastic, but the future of education looks like this. No need to sit through lectures at the pace of the lowest common denominator when you can be challenged and tested based on your personal competency.

I personally skipped my senior year of HS (I’m a HS dropout, no GED) and a semester of college and don’t feel like I missed out on anything that is important to me.

 

[GoSpursGo]

What even is this thread?

Y'all are sorely mistaken if you think the med school professors during the first two years have anything at all to do with your tuition. That is almost all related to your clinical rotations. People who give lectures in the basic science portion of your curriculum are either tenured professors who do it out of the goodness of their heart on top of all of the research/clinical work they do because they love to teach, or are junior faculty who are roped into doing it because nobody else wants to.

You're just wrong if you think you could get the same education from imaging as you could from anatomy. You wouldn't ask a radiologist to do surgery on you, right? And not everyone is going to be a surgeon, but an MD is still a general medical degree so you need the basics.

Yeah a lot of the basic sciences can probably be turned into recorded lectures, which probably is more convenient for professors anyways. But I really don't see this saving you lots of money, or profs losing jobs.

 

[PTPuser]

I really don't think we should turn away with gross anatomy. NPs don't have gross anatomy. Let's not be like NPs.

 

[AllBleedingStops]

No opinion on the anatomy/cadaver lab part but I personally feel as though I am already in an almost completely "online med school". I only attend for lecturers who I know are equal or superior to the 3rd part resources and won't waste my time. I use 3rd party for almost everything else. I only check lectures if a topic is covered that doesn't have an explicit 3rd party session dedicated to it. Even then, it is often an exercise in finding the topic and reading UpToDate, Wikipedia, PubMed articles, and maybe searching it in a BRS or textbook.

 

[Dagrimsta1]

i know you are being sarcastic, but the future of education looks like this. No need to sit through lectures at the pace of the lowest common denominator when you can be challenged and tested based on your personal competency.

I think the only reason this doesn't happen is because of lack of motivation for many students.

For schools that don't have mandatory lecture I think we're basically already there. But I have a few notes for you:

On a cost-per-hour basis, the lecture component of preclinical is the cheapest element of medical school. It is much more expensive to run the clinical education side.

From an institutional perspective, teaching medical students has historically been a low priority. With some exceptions, the PhD's are individuals without substantial grant support who are tasked to do the departmental scutwork, and the MD's are chosen by their departments because of low clinical productivity. The persistent stereotype of medical students as neurotic Type-A's who just want to be spoon-fed doesn't enhance the appeal.

A few decades ago some schools did tinker with completely home-based preclinical tracks. They found that highly motivated students could indeed pass the board exam with no structured classes. These pilot tracks were abandoned when it was generally agreed that passing a test while lacking any social acculturation to medical practice was less than ideal.

If this is true than the tuition should be adjust accordingly. First 2 years = cheap, Last 2 = pricy. It's ****ing nuts that were forced to pay a steady rate for 2 completely different forms of education. Making the first 2 years cheaper would also help so many students with that interest accumulation since it begins from day 1....

 

[afib123]

I think the only reason this doesn't happen is because of lack of motivation for many students.



If this is true than the tuition should be adjust accordingly. First 2 years = cheap, Last 2 = pricy. It's ****ing nuts that were forced to pay a steady rate for 2 completely different forms of education. Making the first 2 years cheaper would also help so many students with that interest accumulation since it begins from day 1....

Most definitely. Charge me 200k for the last 2 years if that's why you are taking so much money from me. I hope med students realize how useless the lectures are in the first 2 years and some changes happen

 

[Med Ed]

If this is true than the tuition should be adjust accordingly. First 2 years = cheap, Last 2 = pricy. It's ****ing nuts that were forced to pay a steady rate for 2 completely different forms of education. Making the first 2 years cheaper would also help so many students with that interest accumulation since it begins from day 1....

Well, no. The point was that the incremental cost of a lecture is low, so lectures aren't much of a tuition driver. Clinical education is more expensive, but that includes the clinical skills courses and preceptorships that are nearly ubiquitous in years 1 and 2. There is also a litany of fixed costs.

Moving to a model where people pay nothing for two years and then double for two years would be interesting, and it would remove much of the reluctance to fail people out before year 3. But it would also tank revenue for two years, and I don't think many schools would be willing to do that.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I wish. I’ve completely given up on watching my professors fumble through a PowerPoint they didn’t even create and try to not just read the slide. Whoever said that material needs to be updated regularly got a big lol out of me. Someone had to correct an antibiotic guideline last month in class because changed in in 1993! Some of my classmates are younger than these materials.

 

[sunshinefl]

I wish. I’ve completely given up on watching my professors fumble through a PowerPoint they didn’t even create and try to not just read the slide. Whoever said that material needs to be updated regularly got a big lol out of me. Someone had to correct an antibiotic guideline last month in class because changed in in 1993! Some of my classmates are younger than these materials.

Haha it’s always funny when they pause/misspeak/try to force something to make sense because they aren’t the one who created it and didn’t even bother to read through the presentation beforehand.

But I have to say I’ve had variable quality of lecturers. Some are like above with the same recycled power points (usually faculty) and some are high quality, up to date, organized, and interesting (usually guest clinician lecturers).

 

[ndafife]

Most definitely. Charge me 200k for the last 2 years if that's why you are taking so much money from me. I hope med students realize how useless the lectures are in the first 2 years and some changes happen

Federal unsubsidized loans are capped at 40,500 per year which means if you charge 200k for the last two years you push people into Grad Plus or Private Loans which mean long term you're paying more in interest rates/fees or you lose the benefits of federal loans (REPAYE, PSLF, Interest subsidies, etc...)

 

[Goro]

I wish. I’ve completely given up on watching my professors fumble through a PowerPoint they didn’t even create and try to not just read the slide. Whoever said that material needs to be updated regularly got a big lol out of me. Someone had to correct an antibiotic guideline last month in class because changed in in 1993! Some of my classmates are younger than these materials.

You shouldn't be tolerating that! Complain loudly to the Dep't Chair, course coordinator, curriculum dean, and the Dean him/herself.

For the rest of you, there will never, ever be a universal pre-clinical curriculum because it will be literally impossible to get > 180 (MD + DO) content experts in any given field to agree on what to have for lunch, much less what will be important to learn in Anatomy, Physiology, Micro, etc.

Hell, at two different medical schools I've been at, I've seen people who teach the same subject almost exchange gunfire over what to teach! [I'm one of those people, BTW]

Then how to deliver content?
Classical Flexner?
TBL?
PBL?
Organ systems based?

I know of one state school system where in one field, the best they could do is agree to teach 80% of the same thing, and the remaining 20% was left up to each individual professor.

 

[de Ribas]

I wish. I’ve completely given up on watching my professors fumble through a PowerPoint they didn’t even create and try to not just read the slide. Whoever said that material needs to be updated regularly got a big lol out of me. Someone had to correct an antibiotic guideline last month in class because changed in in 1993! Some of my classmates are younger than these materials.

I am glad I go to a great school then where all professors know what they are doing. Nothing like this ever happened. I have yet to hear anyone really complain about curriculum, school, or how everything is organized. Everything seems to work as it should be. All exams are reasonable reflecting boards and lecture content.

 

[libertyyne]

I am glad I go to a great school then where all professors know what they are doing. Nothing like this ever happened. I have yet to hear anyone really complain about curriculum, school, or how everything is organized. Everything seems to work as it should be. All exams are reasonable reflecting boards and lecture content.

ive never heard of a school where med students do not complain. it is a favorite pastime at my school.

 

[de Ribas]

ive never heard of a school where med students do not complain. it is a favorite pastime at my school.

Maybe they do. I didnt say they didn't. I just didn't hear yet. I know couple students who are barely making it through every class and I never heard a word of complaint from them. Actually, they say how helpful everyone is from professors, dean, directors and other staff in getting them do better.

 

[libertyyne]

Maybe they do. I didnt say they didn't. I just didn't hear yet. I know couple students who are barely making it through every class and I never heard a word of complaint from them. Actually, they say how helpful everyone is from professors, dean, directors and other staff in getting them do better.

just want to confirm this is a Medical school we are talking about an not a podiatry school.

 

[de Ribas]

just want to confirm this is a Medical school we are talking about an not a podiatry school.

I am in DPM program, but first 2 years DPMs and DOs are taking most classes together, anatomy, clin med labs and so on. We are all together, same faculty, same exams so it doesn't make a difference. The students I was talking about are DOs.

 

[libertyyne]

I am in DPM program, but first 2 years DPMs and DOs are taking most classes together, anatomy, clin med labs and so on. We are all together, same faculty, same exams so it doesn't make a difference. The students I was talking about are DOs.

Doesnt count.

 

[Goro]

ive never heard of a school where med students do not complain. it is a favorite pastime at my school.

Indeed. As a med student, it's your job to complain!

 

[HarmonicConvergence]

ive never heard of a school where med students do not complain. it is a favorite pastime at my school.

I'm convinced it is literally impossible to please all students no matter what the curriculum is. Complaining is apart of the medical school experience.

Also counts...

 

[libertyyne]

I'm convinced it is literally impossible to please all students no matter what the curriculum is. Complaining is apart of the medical school experience.

Also counts...

Im not saying there is anything wrong with being in a DPT program, its just that med students tend to complain to each other and then barely to the admin and student senate. We arent going around complaining to the other professional school students because 1. People in general dont understand the pressures on our time, and the importance of boards etc, or the difficulty of match, or the perils of 3rd year grading etc. Most of the time its not even valid complaints, it just letting off some steam in terms of pent up frustrations. So we complain to each other, because our shared experience.

 

[HarmonicConvergence]

Im not saying there is anything wrong with being in a DPT program, its just that med students tend to complain to each other and then barely to the admin and student senate. We arent going around complaining to the other professional school students because 1. People in general dont understand the pressures on our time, and the importance of boards etc, or the difficulty of match, or the perils of 3rd year grading etc. Most of the time its not even valid complaints, it just letting off some steam in terms of pent up frustrations. So we complain to each other, because our shared experience.

DPM***** Can't forget that oh so crucial M lol.

Yup agree with everything you said. We have those literal same issues people complain about. (except our boards are P/F so less pressure there but stull can't fail) and with people in the scramble right now the complaints are high amongst 4th years. My school is connected to allopatric school and we definitely trade complaints on the professors we have or the rotation sites we rotate thru. And you're so right no one ever complains to administration. We're like the children who talk back to their parents but only under our breath and when they're not looking.

 

[de Ribas]

Im not saying there is anything wrong with being in a DPT program, its just that med students tend to complain to each other and then barely to the admin and student senate. We arent going around complaining to the other professional school students because 1. People in general dont understand the pressures on our time, and the importance of boards etc, or the difficulty of match, or the perils of 3rd year grading etc. Most of the time its not even valid complaints, it just letting off some steam in terms of pent up frustrations. So we complain to each other, because our shared experience.

I think you are missing the point. At my school DPM's (doctor of podiatric medicine) and DO's take classes alongside each other. So we talk to each other, share info with each other since we are going through exact same experience. Unless you do not count DO as medical school. So my original points stands.


I am not saying that everyone is happy with everything. In general, it appears to be that people are happy with the school. In fact, the school is one of the oldest DO schools and very much respected.

And going back to someone's comment about 1993 information in lecture presentation. Idk about other schools, but so far our lectures are all up to date with current info. In fact listening to a lecture now where our professor said that she updates info every year. Of course there is information that has not changed for sometime, but most medical info is constantly changing with new research and new discoveries.

New drugs are added and taken off from the market quite often. Recent changes were in the news within a past week.

 

[libertyyne]

I think you are missing the point. At my school DPM's (doctor of podiatric medicine) and DO's take classes alongside each other. So we talk to each other, share info with each other since we are going through exact same experience. Unless you do not count DO as medical school. So my original points stands.


I am not saying that everyone is happy with everything. In general, it appears to be that people are happy with the school. In fact, the school is one of the oldest DO schools and very much respected.

And going back to someone's comment about 1993 information in lecture presentation. Idk about other schools, but so far our lectures are all up to date with current info. In fact listening to a lecture now where our professor said that she updates info every year. Of course there is information that has not changed for sometime, but most medical info is constantly changing with new research and new discoveries.

New drugs are added and taken off from the market quite often. Recent changes were in the news within a past week.

I am not missing the point. I understood what you said. But it's not the exact same tho, you don't take step, you don't have to worry about aoa, or nrmp match or omm. So it's a little disengenuous to equate the experience. Nothing wrong with a dpm it's just not the same, and as mentioned above med students tend to complain to each other because we know what each other is going through . At my school there would be people immediately complaining about new drugs being introduced because they would be unlikely to show up on board exams. It's possible you go to a unicorn school, or it's much more likely they are complaining to you .

 

[HarmonicConvergence]

I am not missing the point. I understood what you said. But it's not the exact same tho, you don't take step, you don't have to worry about aoa, or nrmp match or omm. So it's a little disengenuous to equate the experience. Nothing wrong with a dpm it's just not the same, and as mentioned above med students tend to complain to each other because we know what each other is going through . At my school there would be people immediately complaining about new drugs being introduced because they would be unlikely to show up on board exams. It's possible you go to a unicorn school, or it's much more likely they are complaining to you .

Umm we have our own version of all those things. 3 boards, apma, casper/crip, match, trade omm for podiatry specific classes. I think he just saying that we understand as much any other student's what you're going through so DPM school may be the only other type of school that would understand you guys. Except for the pick specialty part. Obvi we are locked in from day one. I can't imagine the anxiety/axilleration of match day y'all have finding out what specialty you'll have for the rest of your life. I realize you think dpm school is something different entirely but if you take a step back and look without bias you see we all have a lot in common. But back to the topic at hand.

Gunners at my school swear that attending class is the best way to learn. But for me a recorded lecture on x2 speed is church. It'd be cool to see an option where you could pick which path you take. Class didactic or online didactic. Anatomy lab or no Anatomy lab. And have tuition adjusted accordingly based off your decision. I feel like there's no other thing you can spend 200k on that's not customizable. It'd be cool to have the option to tailor your education to your personal style.

 

[7331poas]

Umm we have our own version of all those things. 3 boards, apma, casper/crip, match, trade omm for podiatry specific classes. I think he just saying that we understand as much any other student's what you're going through so DPM school may be the only other type of school that would understand you guys. Except for the pick specialty part. Obvi we are locked in from day one. I can't imagine the anxiety/axilleration of match day y'all have finding out what specialty you'll have for the rest of your life. I realize you think dpm school is something different entirely but if you take a step back and look without bias you see we all have a lot in common. But back to the topic at hand.

Gunners at my school swear that attending class is the best way to learn. But for me a recorded lecture on x2 speed is church. It'd be cool to see an option where you could pick which path you take. Class didactic or online didactic. Anatomy lab or no Anatomy lab. And have tuition adjusted accordingly based off your decision. I feel like there's no other thing you can spend 200k on that's not customizable. It'd be cool to have the option to tailor your education to your personal style.

"gunners" in medical school elect not to go to class because step 1 is scored which is specifically a allopathic problem.

 

[HarmonicConvergence]

"gunners" in medical school elect not to go to class because step 1 is scored which is specifically a allopathic problem.

I don't see the point of your post or what it contributes to the conversation. Gunners come in all shapes, sizes and forms. I'm sure there are gunners at allo and osteo schools that like going to class. As I've stated I go to a school with allopatric students so I know plenty of allo gunners that swear going to lecture. Sitting in front. And asking every question on their mind. Lets not ruin this thread into a medical school vs podiatry school.

Let us all come together and bond on how draining and expensive the didactic years are lol.

 

[ndafife]

Anyone else surprised this turned into a podiatry vs Allo thing about what med students are like?

My money was on online NP school being the thing to derail the thread

 

[Dagrimsta1]

Well, no. The point was that the incremental cost of a lecture is low, so lectures aren't much of a tuition driver. Clinical education is more expensive, but that includes the clinical skills courses and preceptorships that are nearly ubiquitous in years 1 and 2. There is also a litany of fixed costs.

Moving to a model where people pay nothing for two years and then double for two years would be interesting, and it would remove much of the reluctance to fail people out before year 3. But it would also tank revenue for two years, and I don't think many schools would be willing to do that.

Getting back on track here, I’m not saying make tuition 0 for the first 2 years, obviously that wouldn’t work. Just shift it accordingly. It doesn’t cost 50k+ A year to learn basic sciences... For the clinical years, sure I get it. There are a lot of pockets that need greasing.
I’m surprised the government is basically writing blank checks to these schools. Aren’t they like over a trillion in debt? Once **** hits the fan, the golden goose ain’t gonna be laying eggs no more and that sucks for the people who need to finish their education.
Example: CCOM charges 70k per student (tuition only btw) with a class of 200. That’s 14mill a year in tuition only. Drop in the bucket for big brother but quite the nest egg for others...