Online Organic Chemistry

[DrFabulasity]

Basic background: I am doing a DIY post bacc program. Graduated in 2011 with a BS in Neuroscience. I did poorly in the basic sciences. I have an upward trend from the last 3 semesters. I also work full time as a Social Service Clinician at a psych hospital. I have a few more classes (medical micro, Biochem, Orgo 1 and retake Physics 1) before I can begin studying for the MCAT.

I'm thiking about taking Organic Chemistry online through HES. Has anyone taken Orgo online? What has been the general experience?

What would be a good class to pair up with Orgo so I can fullfill the 2 class/semester "requirement" that most medical schools look for in non-trads?

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[Magus5454]

Basic background: I am doing a DIY post bacc program. Graduated in 2011 with a BS in Neuroscience. I did poorly in the basic sciences. I have an upward trend from the last 3 semesters. I also work full time as a Social Service Clinician at a psych hospital. I have a few more classes (medical micro, Biochem, Orgo 1 and retake Physics 1) before I can begin studying for the MCAT.

I'm thiking about taking Organic Chemistry online through HES. Has anyone taken Orgo online? What has been the general experience?

What would be a good class to pair up with Orgo so I can fullfill the 2 class/semester "requirement" that most medical schools look for in non-trads?

I would not want to take that course online. Also some schools won't accept online work for prereqs

 

[Blanky]

Online reqs are a bad idea. I'm also unsure about two classes at a time filling some requirement?

 

[Phil McCracken]

Never do an online science course. I took a general chemistry II with UNE and did terrible in it but oddly retook it at a university and got a B+. The UNE final was four hours long!

Those are money-making schemes by those schools. Don't even think about trying orgo online.

 

[DrFabulasity]

Thank you so much. The final exam is 3.5 hours and you have to find an offsite proctor. I have decided to wait until the Fall semester to take Orgo I in the classroom setting. I will take Microbiology this semester instead.

 

[BleedinBlue2016]

Just out of curiosity for the folks who responded here - I know HES provides an online biochemistry course as well, and when I called their admissions desk they said that their online courses do not show up as 'online' on transcripts. They actually look like any other HES course.
May be different for biochem vs. orgo because of the lab component, but would you advise against taking this course online as well? I have been contemplating taking it but am definitely wary of the whole stigma around online science courses for prereqs.

 

[Magus5454]

Just out of curiosity for the folks who responded here - I know HES provides an online biochemistry course as well, and when I called their admissions desk they said that their online courses do not show up as 'online' on transcripts. They actually look like any other HES course.
May be different for biochem vs. orgo because of the lab component, but would you advise against taking this course online as well? I have been contemplating taking it but am definitely wary of the whole stigma around online science courses for prereqs.

I would not want to take any hard science online personally

 

[Itisnottoolate]

Just out of curiosity for the folks who responded here - I know HES provides an online biochemistry course as well, and when I called their admissions desk they said that their online courses do not show up as 'online' on transcripts. They actually look like any other HES course.
May be different for biochem vs. orgo because of the lab component, but would you advise against taking this course online as well? I have been contemplating taking it but am definitely wary of the whole stigma around online science courses for prereqs.

I am taking the HES biochem online because it is only offered in spring at my local college and could not fit it in my schedule. I want to take the MCAT in August. If I did not take this class then I would have to wait an entire year to take the MCAT. I have not heard anything negative about the biochem class. It is recorded lectures from the fall so I assume it is almost the same experience. I am still nervous though. Hope it goes well!

 

[BleedinBlue2016]

I am taking the HES biochem online because it is only offered in spring at my local college and could not fit it in my schedule. I want to take the MCAT in August. If I did not take this class then I would have to wait an entire year to take the MCAT. I have not heard anything negative about the biochem class. It is recorded lectures from the fall so I assume it is almost the same experience. I am still nervous though. Hope it goes well!

In a similar situation! Taking this class online this semester would really make my prereq schedule much easier to handle....Otherwise I'd have to take 3 courses at once.
I am working full time now so both that and the online factor make me nervous -- however, I talked to both the professor and the admissions team and they said that several people have taken this course online and it hasn't impacted their application. The admissions team also said that it shouldn't show up any differently on transcripts.
I am a bit nervous about how tough it is to learn the material when the whole course is online but the prof reassured me that there are weekly online office hours for questions and the team is always available over email. Not sure if that helps, but it made me feel a bit better!

 

[Immunodeficient]

I paired Orgo 1 and Micro, and did well. Orgo 1 is a lot of nomenclature, and some conceptualization, Micro is a lot of memorization. Having a micro class before med school will definitely help you out in the long run. I would caution against taking orgo online. As others have said many schools will not accept it, and it may help you greatly to team up with classmates for study groups - orgo is classically one of the most difficult classes in undergrad science.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I would not want to take any hard science online personally

I took my entire preclinical education online basically. I don't see a problem with doing it online as long as it doesn't reflect on the transcript.

EDiT: Many people here are getting confused with my statement. In medical school, we call "preclinical" the first and second year of medical school. Even though my school had in-person classes, I watched all of them on video. Hence, I "basically did them online." I did my undergraduate prerequisites at a brick and mortar college.

 

[Magus5454]

I took my entire preclinical education online basically. I don't see a problem with doing it online as long as it doesn't reflect on the transcript.

Good for you? I was stating my opinion, I have taken a good deal of courses online and I wouldn't want to take a hard science that way

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Good for you? I was stating my opinion, I have taken a good deal of courses online and I wouldn't want to take a hard science that way

Good for you too? You were sharing your opinion. I was sharing my opinion. I never said your opinion was wrong or invalid.

 

[RNthenDoc]

Fair warning: Some schools (like UCF, one of the biggest colleges in the US) does not look kindly on online courses regardless of accreditation.

Personally, I did all fluff courses online, and did all science stuff in person.

How does an online Ochem lab work?

 

[Blanky]

Who cares about ochem lab 😛

 

[DrFabulasity]

Fair warning: Some schools (like UCF, one of the biggest colleges in the US) does not look kindly on online courses regardless of accreditation.

Personally, I did all fluff courses online, and did all science stuff in person.

How does an online Ochem lab work?

I spoke with admissions at HES and their online courses are not reflect as such on the transcripts. HES offers several sections for OChem lab on HES campus. The lectures are recorded and available online throughout the semester. They also offer online recitation sections. I've never been one to form/attend study groups as I feel it is more of a distraction for me. Giving the material and it being known as a "difficult class", I wasn't sure if online option would be the best idea. If I don't take it this semester I will have to waiting until Fall 2018 to take this class and there will be a 1 year gap in my DIY postbacc classes.

 

[chemphysicsinstructor]

Fair warning: Some schools (like UCF, one of the biggest colleges in the US) does not look kindly on online courses regardless of accreditation.

Personally, I did all fluff courses online, and did all science stuff in person.

How does an online Ochem lab work?

I teach online general chemistry and online physics. If there is ever a doubt about one of my online courses, I simply ask the student to have the admissions office or dean of admissions assistant contact me and I will resolve the issue at hand. My goal is to eliminate any misunderstandings.

Online ochem labs can be virtual labs in which you do an experiment on the computer. For example, you "add" the reagents and solvent to a flask and you "heat" the flask. You then make observations such as a color change and then you analyze actual NMR and IR data. You answer questions just like you would in an actual lab report. The virtual lab platform allows students to get the lab experience without the dangers of flammable solvents, chemical exposures, etc. Such a lab experience is safer for both you and the environment. Some ochem labs can be done at home. One example is the isolation and purification of chlorophyll (a natural product).

 

[tluedeke]

Be careful. I took Organic Chemistry without a lab. Despite the fact I did extremely well (all A's), I was very unpleasantly surprised to find out that most medical schools *require* the lab. I had to go back and take the lab without the lecture, which was a complete and utter nightmare.

I'd suggest just biting the bullet, and finding some way to take the whole thing together.

 

[chemphysicsinstructor]

Be careful. I took Organic Chemistry without a lab. Despite the fact I did extremely well (all A's), I was very unpleasantly surprised to find out that most medical schools *require* the lab. I had to go back and take the lab without the lecture, which was a complete and utter nightmare.

I'd suggest just biting the bullet, and finding some way to take the whole thing together.

I am sorry to hear that it was unpleasant for you. I think if we put our heads together, we could come up with a good solution to the situation.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Be careful. I took Organic Chemistry without a lab. Despite the fact I did extremely well (all A's), I was very unpleasantly surprised to find out that most medical schools *require* the lab. I had to go back and take the lab without the lecture, which was a complete and utter nightmare.

I'd suggest just biting the bullet, and finding some way to take the whole thing together.

This isn't exclusive to online courses - some places offer the lecture but not the lab in person, which is just as problematic.

 

[chemphysicsinstructor]

This isn't exclusive to online courses - some places offer the lecture but not the lab in person, which is just as problematic.

At the community college that I teach at, we have some flexibility--which is a great asset. It should be possible (with some paperwork and emailing) to offer the lab and lecture as individual courses or as a package. I am certainly willing and able to assist students as best I can.

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

Online ochem labs can be virtual labs in which you do an experiment on the computer. For example, you "add" the reagents and solvent to a flask and you "heat" the flask. You then make observations such as a color change and then you analyze actual NMR and IR data. You answer questions just like you would in an actual lab report. The virtual lab platform allows students to get the lab experience without the dangers of flammable solvents, chemical exposures, etc.

Not to derail, but a virtual lab can't possibly give you the "lab" experience. Do students don protective equipment whilst getting experience handling corrosive chemicals in front of their computer screens? Do they learn how to work inside a fume hood and when they need to? Do they learn how to set up a reflux apparatus and watch it for 30 minutes only to get distracted until the stopper pops off, or the solution boils over, or etc, etc, etc. All the "negatives" associated with a physical lab are how you learn to work inside an actual lab.

Like for the NMR and IRs, do they learn to work the equipment? Do they experience contaminated samples jacking up their results? If asked, can they say "Yes, I know how to work an IR, or an NMR, or a mass spectrometer, etc."?

Now admittedly, a medical student isn't likely to be fractionally distilling anything during med school I'm guessing, but practicing lab skills in general hardly seems unnecessary to a physician's education. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my instinct.

 

[chemphysicsinstructor]

Not to derail, but a virtual lab can't possibly give you the "lab" experience. Do students don protective equipment whilst getting experience handling corrosive chemicals in front of their computer screens? Do they learn how to work inside a fume hood and when they need to? Do they learn how to set up a reflux apparatus and watch it for 30 minutes only to get distracted until the stopper pops off, or the solution boils over, or etc, etc, etc. All the "negatives" associated with a physical lab are how you learn to work inside an actual lab.

Like for the NMR and IRs, do they learn to work the equipment? Do they experience contaminated samples jacking up their results? If asked, can they say "Yes, I know how to work an IR, or an NMR, or a mass spectrometer, etc."?

Now admittedly, a medical student isn't likely to be fractionally distilling anything during med school I'm guessing, but practicing lab skills in general hardly seems unnecessary to a physician's education. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my instinct.

At the end of the day, we do our best to provide the best educational opportunities to students given our instructional resources. Running a complete organic chemistry lab requires a significant budget (staffing, chemicals, equipment, utilities, waste disposal, etc.) which some smaller schools do not have. I am aware of two prestigious universities that do not have fume hoods for students in organic chemistry...but they charge a big tuition.

A trend in organic chemistry labs is to cut cost by using microscale apparatus instead of conventional (24/40 and 14/20 glass apparatus). Routinely educators debate the benefits of microscale vs. conventional.

Modern NMR machines tend to be automated and students don't really have an opportunity to tune the NMR probe or do sample shimming, which is part of the art and science of obtaining a good quality NMR spectrum. My experience is that students just load the sample tube and place it in a sample changer rack. The vast majority of students that I have encountered do not know about the Fourier transform or the beam splitter which are integral parts of the IR machine. Those details are just glossed over..if even mentioned.

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

This:

At the end of the day, we do our best to provide the best educational opportunities to students given our instructional resources.

is a far cry from this:

The virtual lab platform allows students to get the lab experience...

Your response post basically boils down to:
1. We do what we can.
2. Some (n=2) colleges don't have fume hoods.
3. Orgo students at most colleges don't learn how to tune a NMR.

Regarding "We do what we can": That's fair. However it is NOT fair to call it a "lab experience" because it is not and you know it (hence your response). Is it better than nothing? Sure. Does it help students learn? Sure. Is it a lab experience? No.

Normally it would just be an question of semantics - poTATo/poTAto. But because your company literally profits from that falsehood, misleading students with it is immoral.

I'm some random guy on the Internet, so it amounts to nothing, but I feel obliged to point it out nevertheless.

 

[chemphysicsinstructor]

This:


is a far cry from this:



Your response post basically boils down to:
1. We do what we can.
2. Some (n=2) colleges don't have fume hoods.
3. Orgo students at most colleges don't learn how to tune a NMR.

Regarding "We do what we can": That's fair. However it is NOT fair to call it a "lab experience" because it is not and you know it (hence your response). Is it better than nothing? Sure. Does it help students learn? Sure. Is it a lab experience? No.

Normally it would just be an question of semantics - poTATo/poTAto. But because your company literally profits from that falsehood, misleading students with it is immoral.

I'm some random guy on the Internet, so it amounts to nothing, but I feel obliged to point it out nevertheless.

Actually, I haven't worked for a company for many years. Things are different in a rural/agriculture environment as compared to an urban/suburban environment. Not everything can be taught in a classroom.

 

[tluedeke]

I am sorry to hear that it was unpleasant for you. I think if we put our heads together, we could come up with a good solution to the situation.

It was my fault. I made the decision to skip the lab without fully understanding what the medical school requirements were. One reaps what they sow! 🙂

 

[COA1979]

I teach online general chemistry and online physics. If there is ever a doubt about one of my online courses, I simply ask the student to have the admissions office or dean of admissions assistant contact me and I will resolve the issue at hand. My goal is to eliminate any misunderstandings.

Online ochem labs can be virtual labs in which you do an experiment on the computer. For example, you "add" the reagents and solvent to a flask and you "heat" the flask. You then make observations such as a color change and then you analyze actual NMR and IR data. You answer questions just like you would in an actual lab report. The virtual lab platform allows students to get the lab experience without the dangers of flammable solvents, chemical exposures, etc. Such a lab experience is safer for both you and the environment. Some ochem labs can be done at home. One example is the isolation and purification of chlorophyll (a natural product).

where do you teach online organic chemistry?

 

[chemphysicsinstructor]

where do you teach online organic chemistry?

North Central Missouri College. All courses are offered each term although they are not listed in the schedule of classes. For classes not listed in the current schedule of classes, an additional form needs to be filled out.

 

[takingthescenicroute]

North Central Missouri College. All courses are offered each term although they are not listed in the schedule of classes. For classes not listed in the current schedule of classes, an additional form needs to be filled out.

Is this still true? I was looking for organic on NCM's website and only see general chem available? Thanks.