Ophthalmology as DO

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monalisaDC

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I am accepted at both DO and MD schools very close to each other geographically this fall and I already know I am interested in opthalmology. How tough is it go get an optho residency as a DO? Also, how many programs are out there for optho that accept DO students? I know a few years ago it was very hard. Does any one know if the chances are increasing? should I just go to the MD program then?
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There are 12 AOA (osteopathic only) programs for ophthalmology. You can check them out by searching on here:
http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/

You can go into Ophtho either way as long as you work hard and do well on boards. Which way is easier? Probably as an MD. But who knows. Neither way will be easy.

If I were you, I'd figure out which one has the stronger curriculum and rotations and cheaper tuition and go with that. Those are the 2 most important things in my opinion.
 
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DEFINITELY go for the MD program - no question.
 
I usually let others do this but.......... Really is this that urgent that you needed to make 3+ threads with the exact same question?????
Read the responses in the Do medical student thread. There are very few DO residencies so most likely you would apply to MD residencies also. My opinion go with MD.
 
There are ~10 DO residencies in opthal. It'll be more difficult to match into an MD residency but you also have 10 more residencies to get into than your allo peers.

I think quite a few MD residencies start PGY-2 so you have the extra trouble of figuring out if you can do a DO internship with an MD residency.

In any case, opthal is pretty competitive so good luck.
 
monalisaDC said:
I am accepted at both DO and MD schools very close to each other geographically this fall and I already know I am interested in opthalmology. How tough is it go get an optho residency as a DO? Also, how many programs are out there for optho that accept DO students? I know a few years ago it was very hard. Does any one know if the chances are increasing? should I just go to the MD program then?
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Unless you have a great reason for going DO, don't.
 
My opthamologist is a DO...
 
tideleonheart said:
There are 12 AOA (osteopathic only) programs for ophthalmology. You can check them out by searching on here:
http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/

You can go into Ophtho either way as long as you work hard and do well on boards. Which way is easier? Probably as an MD. But who knows. Neither way will be easy.

If I were you, I'd figure out which one has the stronger curriculum and rotations and cheaper tuition and go with that. Those are the 2 most important things in my opinion.
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With all due respect, while this is true it will be harder for him/her. Definitely go MD. It is unfortunate but its the way things are.
 
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If you want to do optho or something else competitive, you need to take the MD spot. Sure you will have 10 more DO residencies to apply to, but those will probably be close to your only shot at matching.
 
monalisaDC said:
I am accepted at both DO and MD schools very close to each other geographically this fall and I already know I am interested in opthalmology. How tough is it go get an optho residency as a DO? Also, how many programs are out there for optho that accept DO students? I know a few years ago it was very hard. Does any one know if the chances are increasing? should I just go to the MD program then?
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You will be limiting your options to choose an osteopathic school over an allopathic school if you are seriously thinking about ophthalmology. Either way, you will have to show you are a superior medical student, but as an osteopathic student, there are relatively few osteopathic ophthalmology residencies to apply to, and although you are free to apply to an ophthalmology residency associated with an allopathic medical school, you will have an added burden of overcoming the perception that you chose an osteopathic degree because you weren't competitive as an allopathic applicant. This is unfortunate, and probably wouldn't be the case were there equal numbers of each programs in the USA, but there aren't, and D.O. schools and their graduates have an undeserved stigma of inferiority against which they have to show superior performance in the USMLE and on other performance metrics where they can be compared to M.D. graduates.
Secondly, most D.O. programs are not research-oriented, and if you want to do something to get a publication to demonstrate your interest and reinforce your application, it will be much easier to find those opportunities at many allopathic school affiliated centers.
 
You can do it from either. Doctor Saib is a forum member who went to PCOM and matched ACGME Ophthal. However, like others are saying, it's one of the real tough ones (which kind of makes me scratch my head), and, statistically speaking, you have a better shot from MD. It seems like you're a motivated person and would be fine either way though. Also, remember that you're likely to change your mind about specialty choice down the road ... so whatever school you go to, keep an open mind.
 
JaggerPlate said:
You can do it from either. Doctor Saib is a forum member who went to PCOM and matched ACGME Ophthal. However, like others are saying, it's one of the real tough ones (which kind of makes me scratch my head), and, statistically speaking, you have a better shot from MD. It seems like you're a motivated person and would be fine either way though. Also, remember that you're likely to change your mind about specialty choice down the road ... so whatever school you go to, keep an open mind.
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+1 Its upsetting that this person is so dead set on opth that they are allowing it to influence their med school decisions. Not to burst any bubbles...but how do you know your grades/boards will allow you to even have a shot at this? There are a lot of specialties I like...but I am not even thinking about this until I see what level I can perform at.
 
Way too many variables involved here..

ASSUMING that you even still want to to Ophtho in a few years, have gotten the necessary grades/board scores, etc... then I'd say probably better to go MD. Like others have said there are DO programs available as well, not sure of the quality but it's something to think about.

Either way it's going to be an uphill battle. Also, it doesn't do you any good if you do go MD and then just perform lukewarm academically, don't rotate at any programs you are interested in vs. if you excelled at the DO school and did some outside rotations at allo programs and did well.

Just trying to point out some things you should think about. At this point I'm really glad I was never interested in Derm, Ophtho, or Plastics....... :D
 
If it isn't the letters after your name you're concerned about, then you might want to consider that as a DO (at least with other residencies- someone correct me if i'm wrong here), you are eligible to do both allopathic and osteopathic residencies. Therefore, assuming you kick some COMLEX and USMLE butt (and present an otherwise beautiful application), the DO route would seem to offer a greater shot at an acceptance into an ophthalmology program. Now from what I understand that is a much more difficult path because of the multiple board exams and whatnot, but unless I've misunderstood my sources, it is a viable option.
 
Trust me, as a DO, you're out of the running for most of the allopathic residencies regardless of your board score.
GraceEuphoria said:
If it isn't the letters after your name you're concerned about, then you might want to consider that as a DO (at least with other residencies- someone correct me if i'm wrong here), you are eligible to do both allopathic and osteopathic residencies. Therefore, assuming you kick some COMLEX and USMLE butt (and present an otherwise beautiful application), the DO route would seem to offer a greater shot at an acceptance into an ophthalmology program. Now from what I understand that is a much more difficult path because of the multiple board exams and whatnot, but unless I've misunderstood my sources, it is a viable option.
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Honze55 said:
Weird. I'm almost always heard the exact opposite.
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Same here, most D.O's and M.D's I have spoken with have said the exact opposite as well. Oh well, point is if you know what you want to do, score well on your exams, and have strong recommendations from that area.
 
Honze55 said:
Weird. I'm almost always heard the exact opposite.
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MD seniors will be favored heavily, it's very difficult for a DO to match into Ortho, Optho, ENT ( most surgical sub-specialties at that). It's also very difficult for DO's to match into more competitive programs in the MD match ( Columbia, Harvard and Cornell don't take DO's for example).

Overall if your desires are a surgical sub-specialty or to teach at medical school you'll be better off doing MD. For everything else DO school will be good.
 
I think both scenarios presented are incomplete. That is, that:

1. Taking the MD acceptance will give you a better shot, and...
2. You have more options as a DO, so go DO

The reality is, whichever you choose, you're more than likely to be the same caliber applicant regardless of your choice.

That having been said, in general, people who apply DO and MD are somewhere on the middle ground between MD and DO admissions statistically (i.e. upper quarter of DO applicants, lower quarter of MD applicants -- just generalizations and not completely accurate [no idea what the real numbers are but you get the idea]). Since you applied MD and DO, it leads me to believe it's rather likely you fit within this statistical group (again, this could be completely inaccurate).

Now going on the assumption that a) you're currently on middle ground, statistically, between MD and DO and that b) you're going to be the same caliber applicant after four years of medical school, we can now really narrow down the question to what it really should be: is it more likely, given your background, to match allopathic opthamology as an MD than it is to match osteopathic opthamology as a DO? If your ultimate goal is ACGME opthamology, then this question does not apply. If your ultimate goal is simply opthamology, and the above two conditions are true, then this is precisely the question.

In essence, do you want to be a small fish in a rather large pond or a bigger fish in a smaller pond? Crude analogy, but worth consideration.
 
serenade said:
Overall if your desires are a surgical sub-specialty or to teach at medical school you'll be better off doing MD. For everything else DO school will be good.
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Well it's more like for everything else DO school may be okay but is far from ideal.
 
I don't think anyone on these forums would say I'm anything besides a HUGE supporter of DOs, etc, but if you're shooting for ACGME ROADS ... you're better off trying to do so from a MD school. However, remember that there are so many factors to discuss here that it's inane to even discuss this:

1. It's a pre-med choosing a school bc they want to enter a specific field at 20 years old. You will change your mind ...

2. There is absolutely no guarantee that you'll get Ophthalmology just because you're an MD. Remember that it's absurdly competitive (ROADS in general), and trying to moonwalk your way into a competitive ACGME residency with average grades, LORs, and USMLE SIMPLY because you went to a state MD school aint gonna happen. The 260+ people with 2 years of Ophthal research from one of the ivory tower med centers will smack you down.

3. I don't know how the DO Ophthalmology (is there a worse word to spell ??) world is like, but my guess it that it's small and networking/knowing the right people goes further than it would in the ACGME world. What I mean by this is that the qualifiers for who gets what may be different.

4. I don't think ACGME Ophthal is quite as guarded from DOs as fields like ENT, PRS, etc (like others were mentioning). I seem to see these on match lists on a decent basis and I used to talk with Dr. Saib on this site all the time - a DO from PCOM who is not an ACGME Ophthal resident.

Bottom line ... you chances are probably better coming from the MD ... especially if you specifically want ACGME residencies. However, like I pointed out, there are FAR to many variables to even really bother with this discussion, and AOA residencies/getting an Ophthal residency from the DO side is one of them/it doesn't seem "impossible" for DOs
 
JaggerPlate said:
I don't think anyone on these forums would say I'm anything besides a HUGE supporter of DOs, etc, but if you're shooting for ACGME ROADS ... you're better off trying to do so from a MD school. However, remember that there are so many factors to discuss here that it's inane to even discuss this:

1. It's a pre-med choosing a school bc they want to enter a specific field at 20 years old. You will change your mind ...

2. There is absolutely no guarantee that you'll get Ophthalmology just because you're an MD. Remember that it's absurdly competitive (ROADS in general), and trying to moonwalk your way into a competitive ACGME residency with average grades, LORs, and USMLE SIMPLY because you went to a state MD school aint gonna happen. The 260+ people with 2 years of Ophthal research from one of the ivory tower med centers will smack you down.

3. I don't know how the DO Ophthalmology (is there a worse word to spell ??) world is like, but my guess it that it's small and networking/knowing the right people goes further than it would in the ACGME world. What I mean by this is that the qualifiers for who gets what may be different.

4. I don't think ACGME Ophthal is quite as guarded from DOs as fields like ENT, PRS, etc (like others were mentioning). I seem to see these on match lists on a decent basis and I used to talk with Dr. Saib on this site all the time - a DO from PCOM who is not an ACGME Ophthal resident.

Bottom line ... you chances are probably better coming from the MD ... especially if you specifically want ACGME residencies. However, like I pointed out, there are FAR to many variables to even really bother with this discussion, and AOA residencies/getting an Ophthal residency from the DO side is one of them/it doesn't seem "impossible" for DOs
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All of this is more or less true with the possible exception of DO competitiveness for allo gas. Even highly competitive allo gas residencies (Hopkins, Cleveland Clinic, etc) seem to be surprisingly DO friendly.
 
dozitgetchahi said:
All of this is more or less true with the possible exception of DO competitiveness for allo gas. Even highly competitive allo gas residencies (Hopkins, Cleveland Clinic, etc) seem to be surprisingly DO friendly.
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Agreed.
 
Hate it when OPs start these crazy contraversial topics and then just disappear and leave us minions to fight
 
The point is that he is a DO, and yes, an OD as well, but he trained at Stanford in his career. Maybe he was brilliant, but it shows you IT'S POSSIBLE TO DO ANYTHING with a DO or MD. :eek: shocker, I know
 
TJ87 said:
The point is that he is a DO, and yes, an OD as well, but he trained at Stanford in his career. Maybe he was brilliant, but it shows you IT'S POSSIBLE TO DO ANYTHING with a DO or MD. :eek: shocker, I know
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The point is that he can officially call himself "the DOOD" ... sorry Lebowski.
 
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