aburnet2

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I could use some reassurance. I plan on retaking the MCAT in june/july but am going to submit with my 26Q(9ps,6vr,11bs). Just for curiosity's sake is a 26Q good enough for most DO schools with the 6 in VR?

Do you guys know if PCOM-Ga give preference to north GA residents at all?
 
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OP what's your gpa breakdown? If your gpa is 3.5+ I think you definitely have a shot at getting in somewhere just make sure to apply broadly.
 

dntke1518

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To the best of my knowledge, most programs are requiring an 8 in VR. So your plan for retaking the MCAT is a good plan. Good luck.
Some programs may screen out under that but I don't know that they "require" it. Having below a 7 in a section will probably raise a flag though.
 

surgeryDO

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I think it will also raise a flag in that your scores are not level with having a 9, 11, and then dropping to a 6. Who knows though, maybe you'll luck out and at least get some interviews based on gpa, ec, LOR's, etc. I would probably retake it though.
Good luck.
 

SLC

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My breakdown was 12,11,7 (BS,VR,PS)

You should get some looks.
 

cougardiver

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OP, if I may suggest something. The biggest reason to submit early is because processing your application can take up to six weeks. I would suggest submitting your application on day one to at least one school. This begins the AACOMAS process. Do this for any school with automatic secondaries, but ensure that your next test date is included in your primary application. Apply to schools that will not wait for your future test date only after you have your next score back (if you are below what they recommend).

Call each school. Give them your score. I've had great personal feedback from each school I've called about that. They want to help. Use them as a resource.

Also, go find them at a booth at a local event. With a username like SLC, I'm guessing Utah. Consider the upcoming second annual pre-med conference at UVSC for a place to meet several schools and their admissions officers.

Good luck.
 
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Err so I am retaking as well in August. I have a 28q with a 10 6 12 Q breakdown. Should I wait for my new score or should I apply to all the schools I am interested in, stating that I am retaking the MCAT. I have a 3.9 sGPA and ~3.85 cGPA. I just don't want to get put aside in the process because I have a score pending when/if I was qualified at that school in the first place. Sigh...stupid VR
 

user3

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I could use some reassurance. I plan on retaking the MCAT in june/july but am going to submit with my 26Q(9ps,6vr,11bs). Just for curiosity's sake is a 26Q good enough for most DO schools with the 6 in VR?

Do you guys know if PCOM-Ga give preference to north GA residents at all?
If DO is your goal then you don't need to retake, even with the 6. As long as your overall and science GPA's are above 3.0 you should be fine stats-wise. Just make sure to apply early and BROADLY.
 
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If DO is your goal then you don't need to retake, even with the 6. As long as your overall and science GPA's are above 3.0 you should be fine stats-wise. Just make sure to apply early and BROADLY.
Wow, be careful. After talking with several adcom, I do know any section of 6 on MCAT in fact does raise a flag. As for GPA, 3.0~3.2 is a sort of dangerous, unless you have a good MCAT and EC.
 

dntke1518

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Wow, be careful. After talking with several adcom, I do know any section of 6 on MCAT in fact does raise a flag. As for GPA, 3.0~3.2 is a sort of dangerous, unless you have a good MCAT and EC.
Yes exactly, also the score distribution between sections is pretty big.
 
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FYI, I got into KCOM with 6 on verbal...blaming on the fact that I am a non-American native immigrant from Asia. If you have a GPA at least over 3.5+, 6 on verbal may be compensated. I've had a GPA over 3.9 in both science and cumulative which helped me to compensate 6 on verbal of MCAT. Also, I've got all interview invites from the schools I've applied even with 6 on verbal. If you are a foreigner, they might look at your grades in college-level English courses as well.

However, some DO schools might be really strict on the breakdown of the MCAT score requirement. Talk to admin from each school whether you are eligible to apply with your MCAT and GPA. Obviously, it is assumed that you have a decent ECs and LORs.

Good luck!
 
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FYI, I got into KCOM with 6 on verbal...blaming on the fact that I am a non-American native immigrant from Asia. If you have a GPA at least over 3.5+, 6 on verbal may be compensated. I've had a GPA over 3.9 in both science and cumulative which helped me to compensate 6 on verbal of MCAT. Also, I've got all interview invites from the schools I've applied even with 6 on verbal. If you are a foreigner, they might look at your grades in college-level English courses as well.

However, some DO schools might be really strict on the breakdown of the MCAT score requirement. Talk to admin from each school whether you are eligible to apply with your MCAT and GPA. Obviously, it is assumed that you have a decent ECs and LORs.

Good luck!
Unfortunately, KYCOM is a definite outlier in the DO world. I'd bet you have several classmates with 6's in sections. Hate to say it, but someone had to.

Whether the 6 is ok, maybe. I'd assume probably not. I'd retake that no questions asked.
 

Iliketoytles

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OP, I think you'll snag a couple interviews as long as you apply very early. Make sure you check to see what schools require a 7+ on each MCAT section so you don't waste your money applying to those schools.

This is assuming your GPA is > or = 3.5ish. If slightly lower, you might be okay. If much lower, you need to retake. Just my opinion.
 

user3

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OP, I think you'll snag a couple interviews as long as you apply very early. Make sure you check to see what schools require a 7+ on each MCAT section so you don't waste your money applying to those schools.

This is assuming your GPA is > or = 3.5ish. If slightly lower, you might be okay. If much lower, you need to retake. Just my opinion.
I will bet my bottom dollar that 3.0 overall and science should net them an acceptance somewhere, even with the 6. If they don't get in it will be because of their interviewing.
 

Iliketoytles

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I will bet my bottom dollar that 3.0 overall and science should net them an acceptance somewhere, even with the 6. If they don't get in it will be because of their interviewing.
So a 3.0 GPA and 26 MCAT will land an acceptance, guaranteed? That's probably not the kind of advice we want to be spreading on these forums... but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. Sometimes I feel DO schools are a bit too forgiving with poor grades/MCAT/ECs...

Hope I don't get flamed for that comment...
 

user3

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So a 3.0 GPA and 26 MCAT will land an acceptance, guaranteed? That's probably not the kind of advice we want to be spreading on these forums... but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. Sometimes I feel DO schools are a bit too forgiving with poor grades/MCAT/ECs...

Hope I don't get flamed for that comment...
:thumbup:

Just see the underdog thread and/or mdapps. Every one that gets in with a 3.1/25 or a 2.7 sgpa and a 26 will swear up and down their ec's, their recs, their interviewing, etc. were all stellar. But I disagree, they simply underestimate the competitiveness of their numbers. Even with very low numbers, a DO applicant's chances rise incredibly by applying early and broadly.

I say this as someone who had around a 2.8 overall and 2.4 sci after two years in college. But I did well in all of my retakes and even did a pre-med MS program and scored over a 30 on the MCAT. I feel jaded years later, seeing people with such low numbers get loads of interviews and acceptances. It is nice to see them get in, but it makes my hard work and accomplishments feel devalued.
 

Iliketoytles

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:thumbup:

Just see the underdog thread and/or mdapps. Every one that gets in with a 3.1/25 or a 2.7 sgpa and a 26 will swear up and down their ec's, their recs, their interviewing, etc. were all stellar. But I disagree, they simply underestimate the competitiveness of their numbers. Even with very low numbers, a DO applicant's chances rise incredibly by applying early and broadly.

I say this as someone who had around a 2.8 overall and 2.4 sci after two years in college. But I did well in all of my retakes and even did a pre-med MS program and scored over a 30 on the MCAT. I feel jaded years later, seeing people with such low numbers get loads of interviews and acceptances. It is nice to see them get in, but it makes my hard work and accomplishments feel devalued.
Sort of agree with the first paragraph... and very much agree with the bolded.

I've seen a lot of applicants on these boards and acquaintances I know IRL who have low GPAs because they slacked off and partied too much (and don't even care about their grades to begin with), low MCAT, and hardly any ECs. They just have the typical clinical experience, shadowing, and maybe one community service project they just tagged along in because some friends were doing it. I feel like the DO schools could do a better job with choosing applicants, but it also says something poor about the quality of some premed students to choose from. Then again... why should a preDO student exert himself if he doesn't want to, and knows he can get in just fine if he simply does the bare minimum? They play the game, I suppose.

Everything I did in undergrad I did because I enjoyed doing it. But there's this little arrogant part of me that makes me want to look at a few other preDO students and say "really...? so you, the party animal who decided to get his act together the very last year and still got into medschool, and I are supposed to be equal?" I know it's wrong to think that... and I'm definitely going to get heat for saying it, but hopefully everyone knows by now that I don't mean anything I say on here to be personal. And the preDO population I'm talking about is small... most of us seem to be overachievers, because we enjoy it.

Fortunately, my future DMU classmates all seem pretty talented and cool. :cool:
 
OP
aburnet2

aburnet2

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Thanks everyone for the input

FYI
3.4sGPA
3.3cGPA
3000+ hrs clinical exp
100+ hrs volunteering
150+ hrs shadowing
one stellar LOR, three good LORs
tri-beta president during undergrad

I plan on applying early as possible, June 1st
 

user3

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You should get interviews up the wazoo. Just apply broadly on day 1, no need to retake unless you want to aim for MD.
 

dntke1518

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Sort of agree with the first paragraph... and very much agree with the bolded.

I've seen a lot of applicants on these boards and acquaintances I know IRL who have low GPAs because they slacked off and partied too much (and don't even care about their grades to begin with), low MCAT, and hardly any ECs. They just have the typical clinical experience, shadowing, and maybe one community service project they just tagged along in because some friends were doing it. I feel like the DO schools could do a better job with choosing applicants, but it also says something poor about the quality of some premed students to choose from. Then again... why should a preDO student exert himself if he doesn't want to, and knows he can get in just fine if he simply does the bare minimum? They play the game, I suppose.

Everything I did in undergrad I did because I enjoyed doing it. But there's this little arrogant part of me that makes me want to look at a few other preDO students and say "really...? so you, the party animal who decided to get his act together the very last year and still got into medschool, and I are supposed to be equal?" I know it's wrong to think that... and I'm definitely going to get heat for saying it, but hopefully everyone knows by now that I don't mean anything I say on here to be personal. And the preDO population I'm talking about is small... most of us seem to be overachievers, because we enjoy it.

Fortunately, my future DMU classmates all seem pretty talented and cool. :cool:
There was a specific poster on the UDT that said "see you can still party your @$$ off and still get in with mediocre stats"... not cool and makes any of the legit underdogs that worked their butts off look bad.
 

dntke1518

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Unfortunately, KYCOM is a definite outlier in the DO world. I'd bet you have several classmates with 6's in sections. Hate to say it, but someone had to.

Whether the 6 is ok, maybe. I'd assume probably not. I'd retake that no questions asked.
/facepalm

Hate to say it, but someone had to.
 
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Honestly, whenever I see applicants with GPA of 3.1 and MCAT 23 get accepted into DO schools, I cannot help being envious. Sorry for this feeling because of my own experience. I guess they must have excellent E.C.

I am a science major, undergraduate GPA 3.9, graduate GPA 3.86, MCAT 29O (11P, 10B, 8V), with 1000+ hours of volunteering, research and shadowing experience in health organizations, solid LORs. I applied for 14 DO schools in August and finished all given secondary applications soon after being given. And I landed only 3 interview invitations. There were even 4 schools which didn't even bother to give me the seconday applications (yeah, I saw some applicants with much lower GPA and MCAT got accepted into those 4 schools). Of course I know E.C. are very important too besides GPA and MCAT. So in order to clarify, I emailed those 4 schools, asking why and what aspects I need to improve. 3 of those schools never replied to me. Only one replied and said there were just too many excellent applicants and they regret I didn't get a chance ( BTW, I don't think that is very informative).

Although I don't consider myself the best candidate, I do think I am at least better than average in the application pool. Not even give me the secondary application ????? Did I apply too late to those schools? I really really don't get it.

Although I am very happy about my acceptance into a very good DO school, I am just skeptical about how some schools evaluate their applicants. Did the screeners get pissed off on some days, and I happened to be the sacrifices ??? I never know. Therefore, please pardon me for being a little frustrated and envious ! Anyway, it already passed and I am now focusing on how to become an excellent physician and serve my future patients as best as I can !
 
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/facepalm

Hate to say it, but someone had to.
Deny all you want, but it still exists.

I'm not hating on them. Just saying there is a definite difference between kycom and dmu, in this specific regard. No more, no less.

I'm planning on applying to kycom for what it's worth. :thumbup:
 

user3

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Honestly, whenever I see applicants with GPA of 3.1 and MCAT 23 get accepted into DO schools, I cannot help being envious. Sorry for this feeling because of my own experience. I guess they must have excellent E.C.

I am a science major, undergraduate GPA 3.9, graduate GPA 3.86, MCAT 29O (11P, 10B, 8V), with 1000+ hours of volunteering, research and shadowing experience in health organizations, solid LORs. I applied for 14 DO schools in August and finished all given secondary applications soon after being given. And I landed only 3 interview invitations. There were even 4 schools which didn’t even bother to give me the seconday applications (yeah, I saw some applicants with much lower GPA and MCAT got accepted into those 4 schools). Of course I know E.C. are very important too besides GPA and MCAT. So in order to clarify, I emailed those 4 schools, asking why and what aspects I need to improve. 3 of those schools never replied to me. Only one replied and said there were just too many excellent applicants and they regret I didn’t get a chance ( BTW, I don’t think that is very informative).

Although I don’t consider myself the best candidate, I do think I am at least better than average in the application pool. Not even give me the secondary application ????? Did I apply too late to those schools? I really really don’t get it.

Although I am very happy about my acceptance into a very good DO school, I am just skeptical about how some schools evaluate their applicants. Did the screeners get pissed off on some days, and I happened to be the sacrifices ??? I never know. Therefore, please pardon me for being a little frustrated and envious ! Anyway, it already passed and I am now focusing on how to become an excellent physician and serve my future patients as best as I can !
You are not a US citizen. Why were you surprised you got so few interviews?
 

user3

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And I'm guessing you are going to MSU- I am jealous that tuition Canadian students pay that is lower than that for OOS US students. Because I would love to go there.
 

dntke1518

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Deny all you want, but it still exists.

I'm not hating on them. Just saying there is a definite difference between kycom and dmu, in this specific regard. No more, no less.

I'm planning on applying to kycom for what it's worth. :thumbup:
I'm not denying anything... just pointing out that you were talking about a completely different school (KYCOM is not KCOM). You're right there is a huge difference between KYCOM and DMU... but that wasn't the point.
 
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I'm not denying anything... just pointing out that you were talking about a completely different school (KYCOM is not KCOM). You're right there is a huge difference between KYCOM and DMU... but that wasn't the point.
I apologize, I thought I read KYCOM, not KCOM.


My mistake. :thumbdown:
 

Goro

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For my school you're fine.

I could use some reassurance. I plan on retaking the MCAT in june/july but am going to submit with my 26Q(9ps,6vr,11bs). Just for curiosity's sake is a 26Q good enough for most DO schools with the 6 in VR?
QUOTE]
 

Temperature101

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I know someone who got in DMU with an 18 MCAT granted everything else other than that dismal MCAT in her application were way above average. She was an non-traditional appplicant with 20+ years of nursing experience.
 

COMedic2Doc

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I know someone who got in DMU with an 18 MCAT granted everything else other than that dismal MCAT in her application were way above average. She was an non-traditional appplicant with 20+ years of nursing experience.
Yes there are outliers, I'm one of them (watch for my MDapps profile later on this year). However, I seriously doubt that DMU is still considering an 18 is competitive and possibly not even acceptable in the recent trend of increasing competitiveness amongst DO applicants.
 

Temperature101

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Yes there are outliers, I'm one of them (watch for my MDapps profile later on this year). However, I seriously doubt that DMU is still considering an 18 is competitive and possibly not even acceptable in the recent trend of increasing competitiveness amongst DO applicants.
I know...but I dont see why people are ticked off because there are applicants who have below average stats who got in. It's not all about stats...there are other factors involved in the application process. We start criticizing these people with less than average stats and we are amazed when these kids in the allo forum are taking shots at DO schools. GET REAL...
 

COMedic2Doc

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I know...but I dont see why people are ticked off because there are applicants who have below average stats who got in. It's not all about stats...there are other factors involved in the application process. We start criticizing these people with less than average stats and we are amazed when these kids in the allo forum are taking shots at DO schools. GET REAL...
I completely agree with you, I really do. I hear plenty of stories of students that are rejected every year with 3.8 sGPA and omg they don't get in. Then they reapply, again and again and finally they're accepted (there's even an attire thread going right now where someone chalked it up to the color of his suit being black LOL). The plain and simple truth is that yes non-trads get in, and yes ECs count. You have to prove that you're not a complete idiot in order to get into medical school, but you also have to prove your dedication and ability to handle failure before you get in, imo.
 

Temperature101

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:thumbup:

Just see the underdog thread and/or mdapps. Every one that gets in with a 3.1/25 or a 2.7 sgpa and a 26 will swear up and down their ec's, their recs, their interviewing, etc. were all stellar. But I disagree, they simply underestimate the competitiveness of their numbers. Even with very low numbers, a DO applicant's chances rise incredibly by applying early and broadly.

I say this as someone who had around a 2.8 overall and 2.4 sci after two years in college. But I did well in all of my retakes and even did a pre-med MS program and scored over a 30 on the MCAT. I feel jaded years later, seeing people with such low numbers get loads of interviews and acceptances. It is nice to see them get in, but it makes my hard work and accomplishments feel devalued.[/QUOTE]

You should not feel jaded because of that. What if AACOMAS was like AAMC where retake do not replace your old grade...you would have had a tougher time getting into med school. Let say someone has a 3.2 c/sGPA (with no retakes) and 27 MCAT and another person has 3.5 c/sGPA (with 10+ classes retake) and 30 MCAT. Do you think that the former person is a lesser candidate than the latter statwise? I dont think so....
 

user3

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You should not feel jaded because of that. What if AACOMAS was like AAMC where retake do not replace your old grade...you would have had a tougher time getting into med school. Let say someone has a 3.2 c/sGPA (with no retakes) and 27 MCAT and another person has 3.5 c/sGPA (with 10+ classes retake) and 30 MCAT. Do you think that the former person is a lesser candidate than the latter statwise? I dont think so....
Well even without the grade replacement I would still be competitive. But my point was that the bar is just too low. I would rather be non-competitive (and be rejected) than get accepted without feeling like I really accomplished something. The more I have browsed the pre-osteo forums the more I have come to the realization that nearly anyone with a pulse can get accepted to a DO school somewhere. And to me, that cheapens the degree.
 
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COMedic2Doc

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Well even without the grade replacement I would still be competitive. But my point was that the bar is just too low. I would rather be rejected/non-competitive than get accepted without feeling like I really accomplished something. The more I have browsed the pre-osteo forums the more I have come to the realization that nearly anyone with a pulse can get accepted to a DO school somewhere. And to me, that cheapens the degree.
Then don't apply DO. Plain and simple. I definitely disagree with you and have multiple years of experience in the healthcare field to know that a DO is a physician nothing less and yes they are in almost every field in medicine now. Good luck with MD but don't hate on DO without having some realistic, strong evidence to back up your arguments.
 

Temperature101

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Well even without the grade replacement I would still be competitive. But my point was that the bar is just too low. I would rather be rejected/non-competitive than get accepted without feeling like I really accomplished something. The more I have browsed the pre-osteo forums the more I have come to the realization that nearly anyone with a pulse can get accepted to a DO school somewhere. And to me, that cheapens the degree.
Wow...
 

Iliketoytles

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The thing that bothers me doesn't really relate to grades or the DO degree... it's the mentality and attitude of just doing what you need to do to get into medschool. All the research, leadership, tutoring, service, etc I did throughout undergrad was always because I enjoyed doing it... but like I said before... I can't help but be slightly "irked" that people who do bare minimum still manage to get into medschool. I don't regret doing anything I did in undergrad... I just wish it wasn't so easy for applicants. It makes me feel like medschools don't really care about my experiences and the amount of time, passion, and hard work it took to accomplish all of those things. And so when I see some people on here applying with hardly any ECs and a bunch of retakes because they partied too much first 2 years and then decided to take an extra year for GPA-repair, it seems like there are some enormous holes in the applicant filter.

HOWEVER, I also know there are tons of people who have legitimate reasons for retaking classes or having less ECs. I've tutored tons of incredibly hard working students who study so hard for so long, but they just can't do well on the exams. Clearly, there's a difference between these people and students who retake because they were drunk on test day. Yet both their retakes look the same on paper.

All ECs are different. Being married and having kids as an incredible "EC" that deservingly makes up for having less leadership experience or community service, since there's only so much time in a day. Working 2-3 jobs also makes up for a lot of lacking ECs. This makes sense. But for someone who is like me, with no extraordinary circumstances.... if I managed to do as much as I did throughout undergrad, what's their excuse? It doesn't bother me as much as it probably sounds like... it's just interesting to think about. Perhaps I'm just being uptight... as I've never really been a party-animal, and I actually enjoy being at school and doing things around campus. But whatever. :cool:
 

Temperature101

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The thing that bothers me doesn't really relate to grades or the DO degree... it's the mentality and attitude of just doing what you need to do to get into medschool. All the research, leadership, tutoring, service, etc I did throughout undergrad was always because I enjoyed doing it... but like I said before... I can't help but be slightly "irked" that people who do bare minimum still manage to get into medschool. I don't regret doing anything I did in undergrad... I just wish it wasn't so easy for applicants. It makes me feel like medschools don't really care about my experiences and the amount of time, passion, and hard work it took to accomplish all of those things. And so when I see some people on here applying with hardly any ECs and a bunch of retakes because they partied too much first 2 years and then decided to take an extra year for GPA-repair, it seems like there are some enormous holes in the applicant filter.

HOWEVER, I also know there are tons of people who have legitimate reasons for retaking classes or having less ECs. I've tutored tons of incredibly hard working students who study so hard for so long, but they just can't do well on the exams. Clearly, there's a difference between these people and students who retake because they were drunk on test day. Yet both their retakes look the same on paper.

All ECs are different. Being married and having kids as an incredible "EC" that deservingly makes up for having less leadership experience or community service, since there's only so much time in a day. Working 2-3 jobs also makes up for a lot of lacking ECs. This makes sense. But for someone who is like me, with no extraordinary circumstances.... if I managed to do as much as I did throughout undergrad, what's their excuse? It doesn't bother me as much as it probably sounds like... it's just interesting to think about. Perhaps I'm just being uptight... as I've never really been a party-animal, and I actually enjoy being at school and doing things around campus. But whatever. :cool:
I completely agree with you...People circumstances should be taken into account for the admission process.
 

Mehd School

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nearly anyone with a pulse can get accepted to a DO school somewhere. And to me, that cheapens the degree.
Get out of here, buddy.

Where do you go to medical school, UCLA? I don't know why you're spewing all this hot air in this thread. :rolleyes:
 

emtthink

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Get out of here, buddy.

Where do you go to medical school, UCLA? I don't know why you're spewing all this hot air in this thread. :rolleyes:
Naw, this guy is still in high school...if you want a laugh you should read all the threads s/he's started:laugh:
 

user3

7+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2010
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Get out of here, buddy.

Where do you go to medical school, UCLA? I don't know why you're spewing all this hot air in this thread. :rolleyes:
Well I didn't mean literally anyone with a pulse. I was just saying that the minimum threshold for competitiveness is a lot lower than people realize, to the point that it almost feels like such. And you are a fool if you can't admit that this expansion is going to lower the bar even further, and progressively cheapen the degree more and more, similar to the JD and more recently the PharmD. What is wrong with saying that?
 

Iliketoytles

5+ Year Member
Aug 23, 2011
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Well I didn't mean literally anyone with a pulse. I was just saying that the minimum threshold for competitiveness is a lot lower than people realize, to the point that it almost feels like such. And you are a fool if you can't admit that this expansion is going to lower the bar even further, and progressively cheapen the degree more and more, similar to the JD and more recently the PharmD. What is wrong with saying that?
Just for clarification so I don't seem like a douche... The point I was making earlier in this thread had nothing to do with the DO degree, and everything to do with the attitude and mentalities of the premed students.

User, you seem like an SDN sheep. Admission stats are getting more competitive as the years progress (for both MD and DO). :rolleyes: I think the OP got his answer like a week ago... so end this.

 

Drrrrrr. Celty

Osteo Dullahan
7+ Year Member
Nov 10, 2009
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Well I didn't mean literally anyone with a pulse. I was just saying that the minimum threshold for competitiveness is a lot lower than people realize, to the point that it almost feels like such. And you are a fool if you can't admit that this expansion is going to lower the bar even further, and progressively cheapen the degree more and more, similar to the JD and more recently the PharmD. What is wrong with saying that?
Admittedly there is a sliver of truth in this statement, however the requirements are above the average surviving premed, so saying anyone with a pulse would be too much. Lower to the point that someone with uncompetitive stats for MD can get in (3.5/26 < above the average gpa and mcat score of all premed who take ye mcat) , but hardly just a pulse.
The biggest thing harming the DO profession is the AOA, a lack of connections to established research centers, and a more community based graduate and rotation education as oppose to more university based and academic such as with MDs.