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I had someone in the Pre-Allo Forum tell me that they would avoid attending SIU because they teach through a pbl approach. Any responses to this? Is pbl something to avoid in medical school?
Opinions on Problem-Based Learning Please...
- Thread starter christi5784
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Nope, not at all. It might be a problem for someone who gets alot out of lecture.
Where do you learn best? At the library with a few friends or in a lecture hall with Dr. Whatever?
Where do you learn best? At the library with a few friends or in a lecture hall with Dr. Whatever?
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Definitely not something to "avoid"...
I went to a mostly-PBL school and found it to have numerous pros/cons, it all balances out either way. Realize that if you want to think like a doctor eventually, you need to conceptualize things around clinical presentations and patient problems and PBL is the best for this. Lectures fail to engage you and force you to think, research and problem solve like PBL does. PBL however, fails to instill basic science concepts that are needed to understand the patient problems and treatments well.
Ideally, look for a program that combines both didactic instruction/PBL, and ensure that the lectures you do receive are from experienced faculty who hit the important topics (ask upper levels at the school, they'd be a great resource).
I went to a mostly-PBL school and found it to have numerous pros/cons, it all balances out either way. Realize that if you want to think like a doctor eventually, you need to conceptualize things around clinical presentations and patient problems and PBL is the best for this. Lectures fail to engage you and force you to think, research and problem solve like PBL does. PBL however, fails to instill basic science concepts that are needed to understand the patient problems and treatments well.
Ideally, look for a program that combines both didactic instruction/PBL, and ensure that the lectures you do receive are from experienced faculty who hit the important topics (ask upper levels at the school, they'd be a great resource).
N
njbmd
christi5784 said:
Hi there,
If done correctly, problem-based-learning is a valuable asset to any medical school curriculum. How do you tell if your PBL is working? You need to speak with some of the students who have been participants in PBL. This can be done on your interviews and should be done if you have any questions or concerns.
In my experience, PBL mirrors the way that you will approach clinical problem solving for the rest of your career. The earlier you are exposed to evaluation of medical literature, the better. Everything in medicine is evidence-based and PBL should give you a distinct advantage with this type of evaluation.
I also believe that PBL is the ultimate intergrator of curriculums in that your learning is active and focused. Sitting in a classroom listening to a lecture is not learning but fairly clerical. You learn the lecture when you are reviewing it and assimulating it into your base-knowledge. Researching a problem in PBL involves active learning and logical thought. These are good assets for USMLE (all steps) and COMLEX.
njbmd 🙂
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Our school uses PBL sparingly, but I certainly got something out of it. Still I found it a nice supplement to lectures, I wouldn't want it as a replacement. But that's just me, I've always been able to learn in lectures, and I like the organization of a subject-based curriculum. For me, its the best way to learn the most raw material and I've never had a problem integrating that material on my own. PBL is a nice thing every once and a while to solidify what you learn in lecture though.
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PBL is something that works well in theory but sucks in practice, I've had a couple of PBL courses already and no one in my group gets anything out of them. It's pretty much the administrator talking the whole time. ie it's just another lecture.
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PBL works well in my opinion when you already have a firm grasp of the underlying information. Then you can apply what you've learned. But if you come unprepared, which I was a lot, it doesn't help that much. I prefer lectures so much more. Many of the faculty also do too because it's less of their time. Ideally you want to keep the faculty:student ratio low. My school is moving toward PBL quickly and they're reducing their lecture time to just 5 hours a week next year. 😱 At least, they're also eliminating exams too. Everyone is eager to see how this new approach is gonna work out.
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I think it's hard to find a school today that doesn't do any PBL. I don't know about it comprising an entire curriculum... you'd have to be a lot more self-sufficient.
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some PBLs are great while others are poorly organized. For example, in my biochemistry class we would have questions to discuss for our PBL that were given ahead of time and we thus needed to "prepare" by figuring out as much of the answers as possible. However, almost every one of those assignments went into details that we didn't need to know for the course. It almost seemed like busy work and just so the department could say "we use PBL". In other classes the PBLs were helpful but for the most part, seemed somewhat irrelevant to what we needed to know.
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i wouldn't go to an all-pbl school (i'm not sure if those exist) but pbl DOES help things stick better in your mind. I go to a school with a 7 week system of all PBL cases, and I remember stuff from that system a lot better than many other systems -- yet I sometimes question the quality of learning as the information you get is totally dependent on your classmates. if they tell you the wrong thing, or if they present something not thoroughly enough (or TOO thoroughly), then you're kind of screwed. that's why i like lecture better -- everything's organized, and presented on a need-to-know basis for exams.
i think exposure to pbl is great, especially since you're going to need to think clinically for the boards and on your rotations. but i would advise also getting structured lectures.
i think exposure to pbl is great, especially since you're going to need to think clinically for the boards and on your rotations. but i would advise also getting structured lectures.
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My undergraduate program I am in now is founded upon PBL principles..we rarely have straight up lectures anymore. I have to say I generally hate it when I am doing it...but then at the end of the semester when I compare the amount I have learned compared to my other classes for the other major...it is ridiculous. You find yourself analyzing stuff so much better, working in teams, relating things to each other...it isn't just here's this learn it..then the next class is something else. Our program gives you the basic info, and then you are left to discover the rest on your own with guidance from someone. With proper execution it is one of the morst valuable teaching techniques that can be used. Some form of PBL integrated with multimedia and other stuff is starting to show up in nearly every level of education..so there is generally a reason why...So anyway..I wouldn't skip over a program because of it..because it really is a good way to learn..it is just so different than what we are used to that it is difficult to see why sometimes.
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I am a 2nd year student at Sydney University (Australia), which from 1997 radically changed its course into an integrative medical program with heavy reliance on PBL during the first 2 years.
Many people think that PBL-only schools replace lectures with PBL sessions, and that if you go to a PBL-only school, you'll be learning from fellow students instead of professors.
They couldn't be more wrong.
The way it is run in my school is that every week, we get a new clinical problem, which is grouped into 'blocks'. For example, we are currently doing an endocrinology/gastrointestinal block (11 weeks duration), and the problem of the week is a depressed, obese teenage girl who has been taking oral steroids for the last few years to control her asthma (it turns out she has Cushing's syndrome from chronic corticosteroid use).
We meet 3 times during the week to discuss first of all the initial hypotheses (1st session), then take a history (by asking the tutor who has the patient data sheet) and discuss how to do the physical exam and decide on the labs to order (2nd session). In the final session, we make a diagnosis and draw up a disease mechanism flowchart, then discuss management.
Throughout the week, we have lectures on endocrinology, pharmacology, biochem etc. For example this week, we had lectures on adrenal steroids, function of glucocorticoids, steroid biosynthesis etc. We also had anatomy sessions to study the endocrine glands, and a biochem session to learn about enzyme immunoassays (for corticosteroids).
In short, the PBL approach is a program that teaches medicine on a 'need to know basis'.
We don't learn about corticosteroids just because it is there and it's important. We learn about them because we need to know them to understand the week's problem. Of course we also expand our learning, so that even if the problem of the week is specifically about glucocorticoids, we also learn about other adrenal hormones and feedback control, their pharmacology etc. There are many overlaps between the PBL cases of the week, so that important ideas are emphasised over and over again.
After 2 years and 9 blocks later (cardiovascular, respiratory, haematology, neurology etc etc), we have covered everything that would have been covered in a lecture-based course. The difference is that we have learnt them in context of patient care.
I certainly enjoy the PBL approach used in my course, and can't think of any better way to study medicine.
Many people think that PBL-only schools replace lectures with PBL sessions, and that if you go to a PBL-only school, you'll be learning from fellow students instead of professors.
They couldn't be more wrong.
The way it is run in my school is that every week, we get a new clinical problem, which is grouped into 'blocks'. For example, we are currently doing an endocrinology/gastrointestinal block (11 weeks duration), and the problem of the week is a depressed, obese teenage girl who has been taking oral steroids for the last few years to control her asthma (it turns out she has Cushing's syndrome from chronic corticosteroid use).
We meet 3 times during the week to discuss first of all the initial hypotheses (1st session), then take a history (by asking the tutor who has the patient data sheet) and discuss how to do the physical exam and decide on the labs to order (2nd session). In the final session, we make a diagnosis and draw up a disease mechanism flowchart, then discuss management.
Throughout the week, we have lectures on endocrinology, pharmacology, biochem etc. For example this week, we had lectures on adrenal steroids, function of glucocorticoids, steroid biosynthesis etc. We also had anatomy sessions to study the endocrine glands, and a biochem session to learn about enzyme immunoassays (for corticosteroids).
In short, the PBL approach is a program that teaches medicine on a 'need to know basis'.
We don't learn about corticosteroids just because it is there and it's important. We learn about them because we need to know them to understand the week's problem. Of course we also expand our learning, so that even if the problem of the week is specifically about glucocorticoids, we also learn about other adrenal hormones and feedback control, their pharmacology etc. There are many overlaps between the PBL cases of the week, so that important ideas are emphasised over and over again.
After 2 years and 9 blocks later (cardiovascular, respiratory, haematology, neurology etc etc), we have covered everything that would have been covered in a lecture-based course. The difference is that we have learnt them in context of patient care.
I certainly enjoy the PBL approach used in my course, and can't think of any better way to study medicine.
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christi5784 said:
I can only assume that you are talking about me, in which case I would like to clarify my opinion on PBL as an educational tool:
well implemented PBL > or = traditional lectures >>> poorly implemented PBL
The key for you will be getting honest opinions from current SIU students on how well their system works. Personally, I was happy to head to the library with the course syllabi, and step foot on campus only for small groups and exams.
