Optho Away Rotations Competitiveness

[Hemichordate]

How competitive is it to do away rotations at some of the more well-known programs? I know a lot depends on how early you submit your application and (sometimes) how good your resume is, but are competitive away rotations something that you usually have a decent chance of getting into (given that you apply to a decent number of them)? Also, is there any info on actual number of away rotation applications for a particular institution?

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[Andrew_Doan]

I think the question to consider is, are these "audition rotations" a good idea? Consider this academic point of view, which is shared by many program directors. This article was published in the Journal of Academic Ophthalmology, which is sent to all the chairs and program directors in the US.

http://digitalmagazinetechnology.com/a/?KEY=JAO-volume4-01#page=19&zoom=0

 

[fourchambered]

From my experience, none were selective with who they took. The ones I applied to were on a first come, first serve basis. All it took was to apply early, turn in your material on the first possible day, and in one case, sweet talk the coordinator to "reserve" a spot for you before the applications were due. Just be as proactive as possible by making phone calls and getting all the annoying paperwork together early (e.g. immunizations titers, TB testing info, etc.).

The point on whether aways are worth doing is a whole different discussion and depends more on the type of student you are more than anything. I can give you my take on that as well, if you'd like.

 

[Slide]

From my experience, none were selective with who they took. The ones I applied to were on a first come, first serve basis. All it took was to apply early, turn in your material on the first possible day, and in one case, sweet talk the coordinator to "reserve" a spot for you before the applications were due. Just be as proactive as possible by making phone calls and getting all the annoying paperwork together early (e.g. immunizations titers, TB testing info, etc.).

The point on whether aways are worth doing is a whole different discussion and depends more on the type of student you are more than anything. I can give you my take on that as well, if you'd like.

What he said. One to note is that some programs take part in VSAS while others don't, so do your research early. It's hard to get away rotations during 4th year before September, so make sure you don't start in March like I did.

As far as audition rotations go, people's opinions differ about it. My opinion is that you should go for it unless your program has a well-known ophthalmology department. If you don't come from a school with a national reputation, you'll gain more than lose doing an away rotation. One of my regrets was that I did not do more away rotations. Some attendings may say that it does no good, or can do more harm than good, and it's true. However, keep in mind that the advice some attendings give were the same tidbits of advice they gave 6-7 years ago, and they also don't realize how much has changed since then (and how untrue some of their assertions are as well). On interviews, I had some attendings unaware that the average Step I score for ophtho applicants is in the upper 230s, and that they are so many qualified applicants these days they all run together and need some personal connection to applicants (hence: away rotation). Just my 2 cents, being on both sides of the experience.

 

[xanthomondo]

From my experience, none were selective with who they took. The ones I applied to were on a first come, first serve basis. All it took was to apply early, turn in your material on the first possible day, and in one case, sweet talk the coordinator to "reserve" a spot for you before the applications were due. Just be as proactive as possible by making phone calls and getting all the annoying paperwork together early (e.g. immunizations titers, TB testing info, etc.).

The point on whether aways are worth doing is a whole different discussion and depends more on the type of student you are more than anything. I can give you my take on that as well, if you'd like.

I agree with this.

I did a few away rotations and was very happy I did so. I got to see what other residency programs were like (which were way different from my home program) and it made the interviews a really easy, relaxed day. On top of that I learned a ton about ophthalmology from various different attendings and got to explore new cities for a month at a time that I had never been to before.

A lot of getting them scheduled is just persistence and being early with your materials. A lof of places didn't have availabilities, and some of the places I had applied to didn't accept me until a week before the rotation was due to start. So apply to a bunch and make phone calls early.

 

[tm12]

I think the question to consider is, are these "audition rotations" a good idea? Consider this academic point of view, which is shared by many program directors. This article was published in the Journal of Academic Ophthalmology, which is sent to all the chairs and program directors in the US.

http://digitalmagazinetechnology.com/a/?KEY=JAO-volume4-01#page=19&zoom=0

Many programs have an unspoken reputation of only accepting or strongly favoring students who have done an away there. Ironically, many of the current PGY-2 class at that particular program did aways there.

 

[alleyez2011]

What programs do you refer to specifically?

 

[xanthomondo]

What programs do you refer to specifically?

In the program directory that is available for download from sfmatch, Albert Einstein's info says "Students who rotated with us will be given strong consideration."

 

[fourchambered]

Many programs have an unspoken reputation of only accepting or strongly favoring students who have done an away there. Ironically, many of the current PGY-2 class at that particular program did aways there.

Sadly I did a rotation at a program that does NOT favor people who did an away there. It was sort of strange/special situation at this program, but it just goes to show how important it is to do your homework before spending a boatload of money. Before going anywhere, find out if you will be mostly shadowing, working up patients, or if the team will actually be RELYING on you to get out early. I can give you examples of each if you PM me. You'll need to prepare accordingly for each type of rotation. Also, deciding whether you want to do an away at all depends how effective you can be in each of these roles.

 

[tm12]

Sadly I did a rotation at a program that does NOT favor people who did an away there. It was sort of strange/special situation at this program, but it just goes to show how important it is to do your homework before spending a boatload of money. Before going anywhere, find out if you will be mostly shadowing, working up patients, or if the team will actually be RELYING on you to get out early. I can give you examples of each if you PM me. You'll need to prepare accordingly for each type of rotation. Also, deciding whether you want to do an away at all depends how effective you can be in each of these roles.

I have experienced that as well. Many programs offer courtesy interviews (not the same as favoring applicants who've rotated), others don't. It's incredibly difficult to know how different programs do it from the outside...and there's really no good way to know how each program does it unless you've spoken to older students, residents or fellows who rotated at the program and weren't offered an interview. Your faculty mentors or home program director might not even know unless they've had students who've rotated at the away program.

I saw again the program director at program where I wasn't offered an interview and it was quite awkward.

 

[Hemichordate]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Also, when doing an away rotation, is it imperative to get to know the program director/chair, or no?

 

[200UL]

What he said. One to note is that some programs take part in VSAS while others don't, so do your research early. It's hard to get away rotations during 4th year before September, so make sure you don't start in March like I did.

As far as audition rotations go, people's opinions differ about it. My opinion is that you should go for it unless your program has a well-known ophthalmology department. If you don't come from a school with a national reputation, you'll gain more than lose doing an away rotation. One of my regrets was that I did not do more away rotations. Some attendings may say that it does no good, or can do more harm than good, and it's true. However, keep in mind that the advice some attendings give were the same tidbits of advice they gave 6-7 years ago, and they also don't realize how much has changed since then (and how untrue some of their assertions are as well). On interviews, I had some attendings unaware that the average Step I score for ophtho applicants is in the upper 230s, and that they are so many qualified applicants these days they all run together and need some personal connection to applicants (hence: away rotation). Just my 2 cents, being on both sides of the experience.

I agree with all of this. If you come from a school with a big time program they help you little (with the exception of the school you are doing the rotation at). If you come from a lesser known program, they can bring big rewards. Let me give you an example:

Some big dog doctors write many letters of recommendation in a single year. Admission committees learn to look at these letters and trust these letters. Take for example, Morton Smith from WashU (I am not sure if he retired yet). He has written hundreds of letters of recommendation over the years. They are short and to the point and he tells the reader what he thinks of the applicant. You pretty much know what you are getting based on his letter (it brings a type of standardization to a completely subjective part of the application). Therefore, an away with someone of the likes of Morton Smith can pay big dividends if you come from a program with lesser known faculty. This all assumes Dr. Smith says you are great.

As I have said before, aways work out well if you know your stuff and you are the type of person who makes great first impressions. If you do not fit this profile, stay home and impress your home faculty.

 

[tm12]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Also, when doing an away rotation, is it imperative to get to know the program director/chair, or no?

Depends on the program. Have to ask the residents there. Pissing off the program director/chair could torpedo you.