Options for Community College

[Fox800]

Howdy all. I just graduated this past May with a B.B.A. in Business Management. Working full-time as an EMT-I and attending paramedic school which finishes up this August. I've been wanting to go to medical school for some time now but it was not feasible to change my degree while in undergrad (would have lost a LOT of credit, almost a year's worth).

Now I find myself as a college graduate who needs to take quite a few science pre-requisites (2 semesters of organic chem, 2 of biology, 2 of physics, and 2 upper level biology courses...I already have gen chem 1 & 2). I've searched this forum but most community college threads pertain to freshmen or sophomores, not college graduates.

Am I shooting myself in the foot by taking the remaining science courses at a community college, or should I arrange to have them taken at my local university?

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[postbacker]

Howdy all. I'm just graduated this past May with a B.B.A. in Business Management. Working full-time as an EMT-I and attending paramedic school which finishes up this August. I've been wanting to go to medical school for some time now but it was not feasible to change my degree while in undergrad (would have lost a LOT of credit, almost a year's worth).

Now I find myself as a college graduate who needs to take quite a few science pre-requisites (2 semesters of organic chem, 2 of biology, 2 of physics, and 2 upper level biology courses...I already have gen chem 1 & 2). I've searched this forum but most community college threads pertain to freshmen or sophomores, not college graduates.

Am I shooting myself in the foot by taking the remaining science courses at a community college, or should I arrange to have them taken at my local university?

FWIW, the SDN consensus is that you should take the pre-reqs at a 4 year college, but that is not an absolute requirement based on my understanding of what I have read. All community college hours count in the med school admissions process...one aspect of the "consensus" that I agree with is that adcoms might turn their nose up at an undergrad who takes the pre-reqs at a CC during the summer and not while at their 4 year college, in a blatant attempt to game the system grades-wise...

For nontrads, the reality is that it is not always feasible to return to a 4 year college, not to mention the cost factor (CC usually much cheaper)...

I would love to hear the opinion of some actual adcoms on this one - like LizzyM?

 

[Fox800]

If I had started down the path while still in school, I would have taken all of my sciences at my university. I'm wondering how much merit AdComs would give to me for taking the sciences at a community college since I'm working full-time and already have a degree.

 

[postbacker]

If I had started down the path while still in school, I would have taken all of my sciences at my university. I'm wondering how much merit AdComs would give to me for taking the sciences at a community college since I'm working full-time and already have a degree.

The SDN adcom mentors may see this thread and respond. But you might also want to go on the "sticky threads" at the top and post in the "Mentor Forum" under the thread for "med school admissions - special circumstances" and see if you can get something more official than the rife speculation you will get from SDN posters...myself included...

If you want my opinion - I say take the pre reqs wherever you can - if you have access to a 4 year school, that is probably preferred and will carry more weight - but as a nontrad with a job, I don't think a CC will doom your chances...plus they will also look closely at your MCAT to "test" the quality of your pre req grades...in other words, make As at the CC AND score well on the MCAT (30+) and it will not be an issue at most medical schools...

 

[njbmd]

Am I shooting myself in the foot by taking the remaining science courses at a community college, or should I arrange to have them taken at my local university?

If you can take your pre-med coursework at a quality 4-year college or university then do so. If not, take your pre-med coursework at a quality community college but make sure that the courses are the type that will transfer to a 4-year college. In the end, your performance makes more of a difference than the actual location of your coursework as long as your coursework is high quality and you have done well.

The first thing that you should do is download the topic content from the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) site and make sure that your pre-med coursework (regardless of 4-year or community college), covers the topics that you need in order to do well on that very important exam.

There are plenty of medical school matriculants who took their pre-med coursework at community colleges. The MCAT is a huge equalizer thus you need to be sure that your pre-med coursework at your community college (or 4-year college) is adequate. Don't go into this test with the idea that you will take an MCAT review course that will adequately prepare you for this very important exam. You cannot review what you haven't learned in the first place.

Take your coursework where you know that you can get the best preparation and knowledge base. Community colleges (and 4-year colleges) vary widely in the depth of their coursework and quality of teaching. Make sure that you get the best no matter where you decide to take these courses. Do some investigation and get the most for your money.

 

[PTtoMD]

I can't speak for med school admissions but when i appled to PT school 9 years ago, it was at a time when the programs were extremely competetive. I was told by many not to take my pre-reqs at a CC but from a financial standpoint it was my only option. To my surprise, i did not feel this was held against me at all. I was accepted into about 90% of the programs i applied to and where i took my prereqs was not brought up in the interviews. Again, Med school is a whole other world but i wanted to share my experience. I will be applying in 2 years or so and hope this does not work against me.

 

[menaniac]

I got my BA in marine biology from a pretty well known university about 15 years before I applied to med school. When I started getting ready to apply, my only option was to take classes at our local CC to fulfill the admission requirements (I needed OChem II and Physics II), and to review for the MCAT. Only once was my CC experience commented on in a negative way (by Drexel who was trying to convince me to enter their SMP so I think they had a particular reason to make me feel inadequate), and 2 interviews commented positively that they thought that students from this particular college were well prepared academically (both NJ state schools). So, I guess it can swing both ways depending on the particular adcom's experience with other applicants from the school and their own personal bias. I don't think it hurt me in the long run...I got in after all! Luck to you whatever you decide!

 

[obrn]

I was in the same position as you were, already having a bachelor's and not sure what to do about taking my remaining pre reqs. I contacted two different medical schools, and both recommended that I take my remaining classes at my local community college. Granted, the CC that is local has a very strong reputation and both of the med schools that I talked to were also local, but that's my two cents. Once I started taking classes I found several others in my classes who were in the same boat (returing to school for med school pre reqs) and the CC even has a pre med advisor for non-traditional pre med students.

If you have a specific school in mind as to where you want to attend med school, contact them and ask if they have a preference as to where pre reqs are completed. You might not get an answer, but it never hurts to ask!

Best of luck!

 

[FutureDoctorJ]

FWIW, the SDN consensus is that you should take the pre-reqs at a 4 year college, but that is not an absolute requirement based on my understanding of what I have read. All community college hours count in the med school admissions process...one aspect of the "consensus" that I agree with is that adcoms might turn their nose up at an undergrad who takes the pre-reqs at a CC during the summer and not while at their 4 year college, in a blatant attempt to game the system grades-wise...

For nontrads, the reality is that it is not always feasible to return to a 4 year college, not to mention the cost factor (CC usually much cheaper)...

I would love to hear the opinion of some actual adcoms on this one - like LizzyM?

I am doing the cc thing. Yeah you will hear alot about 4 year schools over cc's etc etc. BUt whats the alternative?? CC's give you the most flexibility with classes and if you are like me working full time you cant beat them. I know many students in med school who went back to cc's for the pre reqs..ALoha from Hawaii!!!

 

[StrengthDoc]

FWIW, the SDN consensus is that you should take the pre-reqs at a 4 year college, but that is not an absolute requirement based on my understanding of what I have read.

As you can see from the posts, I'm not sure SDN has reached a consensus on this issue. I contacted both med schools in my area and neither had any issue with CC as a post bacc. In fact, the CC I chose has a linkage to the university each school is affiliated with.

 

[ToGodALLGlory]

I used to get nervous about CC threads. Many SDNers said the credits wouldn't count or be respected; whatever you do, don't use CC for a post-bacc; and my current favorite: "They won't hurt you if you do well, but don't dream of an ivy league!" None of my interviewers mentioned the CC coursework as a hindrance. The other day I emailed Harvard and Yale out of curiosity, and Harvard directly said post-bacc work from a CC is acceptable, while Yale directed me to their website (which I had already reviewed) that does not exclude community college (only mentions that the school must be accredited). It's a pleasant little dream for a post-bacc student, even though like someone said, my state schools are familiar with my CC and have some linkages, so I'd obviously (for many reasons) have a better shot there. My advice is to just ask whichever school you are interested in if you have doubts. You can do it! Good luck!

 

[postbacker]

As you can see from the posts, I'm not sure SDN has reached a consensus on this issue. I contacted both med schools in my area and neither had any issue with CC as a post bacc. In fact, the CC I chose has a linkage to the university each school is affiliated with.

Must be a slow summer or where this thread got placed because the typical SDN response to this question in the past has been decidedly anti CC. I jumped on this thread early and often, and was pleased that njbmd weighed in with her respected authority on the matter, and I think the tone of this thread has been very positive for a change, not the usual baseless rumor mongering SDN crud...

 

[zed350]

I used to get nervous about CC threads. Many SDNers said the credits wouldn't count or be respected; whatever you do, don't use CC for a post-bacc; and my current favorite: "They won't hurt you if you do well, but don't dream of an ivy league!" None of my interviewers mentioned the CC coursework as a hindrance. The other day I emailed Harvard and Yale out of curiosity, and Harvard directly said post-bacc work from a CC is acceptable, while Yale directed me to their website (which I had already reviewed) that does not exclude community college (only mentions that the school must be accredited). It's a pleasant little dream for a post-bacc student, even though like someone said, my state schools are familiar with my CC and have some linkages, so I'd obviously (for many reasons) have a better shot there. My advice is to just ask whichever school you are interested in if you have doubts. You can do it! Good luck!

I am taking my Pre-reqs at a local CC too.

However,the situation is not as simple as you mentioned, though Majority of Schools say that they accept CC credits but they "Prefer" courses to be completed at a 4-yr institution, which for me makes this whole deal of taking Pre-reqs a grey area. I mean who knows what happens behind those close doors of ad-com's, I am sure as hell that a guy breaking even with me in terms of GPA/MCAT score would be preferred over me if he took his Pre-reqs in a 4-yr college.

I have also read in the forums here on SDN that adcoms add about 0.1 to the GPA,in their heads, if the undergraduate institution you attended is very well known and very competitive lets say MIT for an example.But i have never heard of such a thing when it comes to comparing a CC and a 4-yr college GPA, maybe someone can enlighten us all on this as this would be really helpful to know how much GPA should one shoot for if they are taking classes at a CC.

However, my advice to you would be that if you have money and time to take classes at a 4-yr college..do that, as it makes the whole situation of taking-preqs much less subjective. However, if you are in situation like myself and you do not have money or time for 4-yr college courses, CC might be your only option.Just make sure your GPA is as close to 4.0 as possible.

Best of Luck !!

 

[Scottish Chap]

I was missing two prerequisite classes after I took the MCAT and the only place offering the missing classes was a CC in the evening. I was working around 60 hours per week in a very demanding career so taking classes during the day was not an option for me. The class itself was taught by an experienced prof. with a Ph.D. from Ann Arbor and a postdoc. at Hopkins, and I felt it was rigorous enough for the end goal. I think if your MCAT is presentable, then a few CC classes - especially as a nontraditional applicant - should not matter. However, that's just my opinion. As someone mentioned already, the most important point to consider is whether the CC classes cover all the material on the MCAT. You don't want to short-change yourself.

If I were interviewing an applicant who had taken some classes at a CC, I wouldn't care. Medical schools might not care either, but I think they'll expect an A in those classes if you go that route. In my opinion, the whole CC thing is often over-dramatized. My own medical school's policy is that CC credits are not preferred, but I know several people in my class who took some (if not all) of their prerequisites at a CC. Medical schools want the best applicants possible, so it makes sense that they suggest that all classes are taken in a rigorous environment, that's all. Good luck!

 

[Mjefferson80]

I'm a huge proponent of my local CC, for both cost and quality reasons.

At the local public four-year, you've got two 1.5 hour lectures a week by a monotone professor in front of 100 kids. Then there's a 1.5 hour discussion section about the lecture led by a TA who may or may not speak English or know what's going on in the class or have any idea what teaching is. Then there's the three-hour lab, which also requires an hour discussion that's largely waste of time. That's four components (plus lecture x2) to be scheduled for one course during which I'll be working 40 hrs/wk and taking another lab science course. A very inefficient learning experience for about $1200, and that's subsidized! Grading will be difficult and somewhat arbitrary.

At the local big four-year private, you've got two 1.5 hour lectures a week and a three-hour lab to schedule. Better instruction, smaller classes, less waste. But it's around $3500/class. Both the public and private schools are tier two, but getting an A is significantly easier at the private.

At the local CC, it's 1.5 hours of lecture followed by 1.5 hours of lab twice a week. Classes of 30 or less. Teachers have M.A.'s in their subject and want to teach. My CC has consistently won some kind of national award for its science classes, and the course quality has been excellent. And the grading is harder than at the local private four-year. For $150/class.

That being said, most US med schools say they don't want pre-reqs primarily from CCs, although many people have gotten in with them.

 

[proudmom]

How are the CC prereqs considered for some one with non-US univ Bachelors degree( about 15 years back) and MS from a US univ. All the advisors that I talked to obviously do not recommend CC for science prereqs. Also since I need to take some non-science courses (a total of 16 courses along with scince prereqs), is it advisable to get in to some kind of degree program or just take courses as a non-degree seeking student. I really appreciate any input.

 

[zed350]

How are the CC prereqs considered for some one with non-US univ Bachelors degree( about 15 years back) and MS from a US univ. All the advisors that I talked to obviously do not recommend CC for science prereqs. Also since I need to take some non-science courses (a total of 16 courses along with scince prereqs), is it advisable to get in to some kind of degree program or just take courses as a non-degree seeking student. I really appreciate any input.

I am in a same situation and I am taking classes at a CC. Just make sure you are as close to 4.0 as possible if you choose to go CC route.

 

[proudmom]

Thanks ZED350. Are you taking these courses as a degree seeking or
a non-degree seeking student. Thanks for sharing the information

 

[menaniac]

Thanks ZED350. Are you taking these courses as a degree seeking or
a non-degree seeking student. Thanks for sharing the information

I took mine as a non-degree seeking student, and had no problems with it. I already had a degree in biology, even though it was a bit old (>10 yrs). I htink it might have looked strange getting another AA degree on top of a BS degree. Then again, if you need to be full-time or enrolled as degree seeking for financial aid reasons, that would probably be Ok too. I really don't think it matters much. Just do really well in your classes!

 

[proudmom]

Thanks Menaniac.

 

[zed350]

Thanks ZED350. Are you taking these courses as a degree seeking or
a non-degree seeking student. Thanks for sharing the information

As a non-degree seeking student. Also, make sure you plan to complete 90 undergraduate units before you plan to matriculate.

 

[rales]

I had to retake many of my prereqs because the original grades were ancient. I took these classes at three different schools (two four-year schools and a community college) in three semesters, simply because I had to accomodate my work schedule. I explained this strange pattern with a sentence in my personal statement. None of the medical schools objected to this at all.

Good luck.

 

[proudmom]

Thank you all for your advise

 

[Fox800]

You all have been extremely helpful. I'm working full-time as a paramedic and supporting myself so if I can save money by taking classes at the CC (at 800-900 for two classes) vs. $2,500 at the 4-year, that would be awesome. You guys have alleviated a lot of my fears. I'm leaning towards CC and I'll make sure to do my best to make A's

 

[126990]

I'm in a post-bac program, love it, but took an online Stats I course, of all things, then put in a phone call to UCLA-Geffen, asked if they considered it legit, and the lady told me that all they care about is that it's the right course and that I took it for a grade. It was and I did.
Better schools frequently have better teachers, but as a non-trad, you'll be looked at slightly differently, from what I've heard from admissions officers.
I think you should just do the best you can wherever you can. If you have the option of non-CC, then go with that. If not, get A's and you're golden.

 

[gotmeds?]

Howdy all. I just graduated this past May with a B.B.A. in Business Management. Working full-time as an EMT-I and attending paramedic school which finishes up this August. I've been wanting to go to medical school for some time now but it was not feasible to change my degree while in undergrad (would have lost a LOT of credit, almost a year's worth).

Now I find myself as a college graduate who needs to take quite a few science pre-requisites (2 semesters of organic chem, 2 of biology, 2 of physics, and 2 upper level biology courses...I already have gen chem 1 & 2). I've searched this forum but most community college threads pertain to freshmen or sophomores, not college graduates.

Am I shooting myself in the foot by taking the remaining science courses at a community college, or should I arrange to have them taken at my local university?

Be really careful about the advice you're getting here. A lot of people are saying that they took some CC classes and did just fine. I've never heard of anyone who did all of their pre-med pre-reqs at a CC and got in. I was in a very similar situation as you are now (although I had already been working as a medic for a while). I think that your best bet is univeristy extension classes, if they're offered in your area. You get to take classes at a 4-year university (usually only a couple of nights a week) and it's a much cheaper option than a formal post-bac program.

 

[Pixelthecat]

I also took some prereqs at the local community college: orgo, biology, biochemistry. I got accepted to a few places, including one MD/PhD program.

However - I did electrical engineering as an undergrad, and also have a MS in EE and did rather well on the MCAT. Community college prereqs won't keep you out, but you do have to prove to the admissions committee that you're 'academically qualified'.

I also agree with a previous poster about the quality that community colleges can get - I had some science (and obviously lots of engineering) classes at a big, well known and regarded (BWKR) university, but I feel that the quality of teaching for my CC was generally better (biochem was eh, but the other two classes were good). This was partially due to smaller class size, and partially due to the teachers actually being there to teach. The impression I got at the BWKR university from many professors was that teaching undergrads was a distraction from their research, and thus a waste of their time.

Take all this with a grain of salt - I only did three courses at the CC (n = 3), so this isn't a particularly large sample size..