Options for ex-premed?

[Dayaa]

Admission statistics at most Ivy schools only include those students that are rubber stamped by the premedical advisory committee. If you fall below their standards, they will not endorse your application, and this will not be included in their official statistics.

Nah, I don't go to those ivies then. I have never even been to a premed advisor.

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[Dayaa]

I'm sure the Yale and Columbia schools of nursing are absolutely horrid institutions that are unworthy of any Ivy league student to attend. Both offer direct entry advanced practice nursing programs specifically for people with bachelor's degrees and will not let you attend without one.

I bet 99% of people who attend them aren't from Yale or Columbia.

 

[Dayaa]

Also, I have an amazing presentation I found online from a medical school given to a low ranked school. They list several average sGPAs from nearby schools. There is a range of .4, sadly I'm not close to that number even being on the lower-needed GPA side.

 

[Mad Jack]

I bet 99% of people who attend them aren't from Yale or Columbia.

Without getting too into who I am, let's just say I know first hand that the Ivy league nursing program around here is largely composed of top 20 grads, many of them from Ivies. You would understand why this is the case if you'd ever actually worked in a hospital- the majority of high-ranking executives are nurses, not physicians. You can land a 6-figure salary right out of school and be half way up the executive ranks working the 9-5 with no weekends or holidays before a physician is done with residency. Most of the power in the hospital is, unfortunately, not wielded by physicians (certain laws require that clinical managers have nursing degrees, at least in my area), so for those looking for power and a possible C-level executive position someday (as many Ivy league grads are), nursing is the way to go.

 

[Dayaa]

Without getting too into who I am, let's just say I know first hand that the Ivy league nursing program around here is largely composed of top 20 grads, many of them from Ivies. You would understand why this is the case if you'd ever actually worked in a hospital- the majority of high-ranking executives are nurses, not physicians. You can land a 6-figure salary right out of school and be half way up the executive ranks working the 9-5 with no weekends or holidays before a physician is done with residency. Most of the power in the hospital is, unfortunately, not wielded by physicians (certain laws require that clinical managers have nursing degrees, at least in my area), so for those looking for power and a possible C-level executive position someday (as many Ivy league grads are), nursing is the way to go.

That's great, my mom's a nurse. I don't want to be. I've helped her get As in easy prereqs. She barely speaks English and got As.

 

[ciestar]

My state school's nursing program requires most of the pre-med reqs (everything but ochem II and physics). The mean GPA for those accepted is 3.9. There definitely is a very broad spectrum when it comes to nursing programs.

Mine did as well. They have a strict gpa/course policy. C's aren't acceptable (if you don't pass a class, ie get >75% in the course, you have to repeat it which puts you back a year, don't pass two courses, you're done). If you fail clinical they boot you out.

You have no place to be arrogant. I went to a state school that I've heard referred to as a public ivy. State school shouldn't imply easier.

 

[WillburCobb]

Yup, I should have taken another path. I wish I didn't care about academics so that I could go to my state school, think I am the smartest person ever because I get As there, instead of being in classes with actually smart people and doing average because they are so smart which destroyed my confidence.

I always had a hunch that I was actually pretty stupid. Thanks for the conformation.

 

[Dayaa]

I always had a hunch that I was actually pretty stupid. Thanks for the conformation.

You're not stupid. You're just clever for taking the better route. There are just lots of equally smart people that don't get in because they wanted better education.

 

[Dayaa]

Mine did as well. They have a strict gpa/course policy. C's aren't acceptable (if you don't pass a class, ie get >75% in the course, you have to repeat it which puts you back a year, don't pass two courses, you're done). If you fail clinical they boot you out.

You have no place to be arrogant. I went to a state school that I've heard referred to as a public ivy. State school shouldn't imply easier.

K, apparently everyone in real life knows this except those who go there. I've taken lots of classes at state schools and it's not that they're easier, it's just easier to get a good grade.

 

[ciestar]

I always had a hunch that I was actually pretty stupid. Thanks for the conformation.

Haha, apparently I was surrounded by idiots for 4 years as well. Me and my 3.8 sGPA from a lowly state school...means nothing.

 

[Dayaa]

Haha, apparently I was surrounded by idiots for 4 years as well. Me and my 3.8 sGPA from a lowly state school...means nothing.

I didn't even attend my classes to get a 4.0 from a great research state school.

 

[ciestar]

K, apparently everyone in real life knows this except those who go there. I've taken lots of classes at state schools and it's not that they're easier, it's just easier to get a good grade.

Well, I find that to be the farthest thing from the truth. I went to a challenging school. Courses where an A is a 95%. Yep easier to get an A.

Quit thinking you're better than everyone else.

 

[Dayaa]

Well, I find that to be the farthest thing from the truth. I went to a challenging school. Courses where an A is a 95%. Yep easier to get an A.

Quit thinking you're better than everyone else.

Okay? What if the questions are as easy as plug and chug? That means nothing to be honest.

 

[WillburCobb]

You're not stupid. You're just clever for taking the better route.

I think my 21-22 ACT and lack of an SAT had just a bit more to do with it than cleverness.

 

[Dayaa]

I think my 21-22 ACT and lack of an SAT had just a bit more to do with it than cleverness.

And I'm sure, I who had a 36, couldn't get good grades elsewhere or would have a challenging time in medical school.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's great, my mom's a nurse. I don't want to be. I've helped her get As in easy prereqs. She barely speaks English and got As.

There's a difference between saying "I don't think I would like to do something" and "I believe something is beneath me." You are certainly in the latter camp, which is amusing given your less than stellar performance. You clearly have a high degree of arrogance about your own abilities that will no doubt explode in your face at some point down the road. You also have no respect for the largest group of caregivers you would be sharing the wards with, so it is probably a good thing you have decided to not pursue medical school, as it is a profession in which respect for those you work with is critically important.

Anyway, I congratulate you on your self-inflicted failure all in the name of prestige. People like you open up spots for people like me, so on behalf of whomever goes to medical school in your place, I offer you their thanks. That a person of your supposed intelligence fails to see the inherent irony in the fact that you will end up in a far less prestigious field because of your desire for undergraduate prestige is mind boggling.

 

[Dayaa]

There's a difference between saying "I don't think I would like to do something" and "I believe something is beneath me." You are certainly in the latter camp, which is amusing given your less than stellar performance. You clearly have a high degree of arrogance about your own abilities that will no doubt explode in your face at some point down the road. You also have no respect for the largest group of caregivers you would be sharing the wards with, so it is probably a good thing you have decided to not pursue medical school, as it is a profession in which respect for those you work with is critically important.

Anyway, I congratulate you on your self-inflicted failure all in the name of prestige. People like you open up spots for people like me, so on behalf of whomever goes to medical school in your place, I offer you their thanks. That a person of your supposed intelligence fails to see the inherent irony in the fact that you will end up in a far less prestigious field because of your desire for undergraduate prestige is mind boggling.

I will be a doctor, I just will major in business and then do a postbacc at an institution like yours. I did take people's advice, although it was to transfer now, waiting 2 years isn't that big of a deal especially with how little I pay for an amazing school.

 

[ciestar]

Okay? What if the questions are as easy as plug and chug? That means nothing to be honest.

Comparative anatomy? I don't think so.
Don't be ignorant. You're making assumptions based on your own arrogance. But based on your grades, you have no room to be arrogant. Best of luck on your future endeavors with that presumptuous attitude.

And actually, based on the research I've done in the past, at least in many Pennsylvania post bacc nursing/PA programs (penn state, Pitt, temple, Drexel, etc) you need at least a 3.0 gpa to apply.

 

[Dayaa]

Comparative anatomy? I don't think so.
Don't be ignorant. You're making assumptions based on your own arrogance. But based on your grades, you have no room to be arrogant. Best of luck on your future endeavors with that presumptuous attitude.

And actually, based on the research I've done in the past, at least in many Pennsylvania post bacc nursing/PA programs (penn state, Pitt, temple, Drexel, etc) you need at least a 3.0 gpa to apply.

Not an informal one at local institutions. They let anyone take classes there. Again, another reason why these classes were never hard with 40 year old women in them with me.

 

[lnvictus]

Agree to disagree.

 

[justAstudent]

Good luck in life.

 

[Mad Jack]

Good luck in life.

She's gonna need it.

 

[Dayaa]

Good luck in life.

She's gonna need it.

Rude. made it this far, will make it all the way

 

[repititionition]

You need a bachelors degree to get into CRNA programs

+ actual acute care nursing experience (varies by school, often two years).

the better choice (for a number of reasons) if one wishes to be an anesthetist is to become an Anesthesia Assistant.

2 years of training, rock-solid employment outlook, good pay, and interesting work (if you are in to anesthesia, that is).

quite a shame that it's a very-little discussed (here on SDN) alternative path in clinical medicine.

 

[Mad Jack]

+ actual acute care nursing experience (varies by school, often two years).

the better choice (for a number of reasons) if one wishes to be an anesthetist is to become an Anesthesia Assistant.

2 years of training, rock-solid employment outlook, good pay, and interesting work (if you are in to anesthesia, that is).

quite a shame that it's a very-little discussed (here on SDN) alternative path in clinical medicine.

It is far less rock solid than you might believe. CRNAs can operate independently in many states for the same pay as an AA, which makes them far more valuable to AMGs, which are the way of the future in the anesthesia world.

 

[repititionition]

It is far less rock solid than you might believe. CRNAs can operate independently in many states for the same pay as an AA, which makes them far more valuable to AMGs, which are the way of the future in the anesthesia world.

Well CRNAs can't actually operate, period (the surgeons haven't made the same mistakes as the anesthesiologists)...

Snark aside, CRNAs can work for as little or as much pay as they or the market decide. There is no $ issue of CRNA parity or disparity.

As you correctly point out though, CRNAs provide an AMG (and CAH's) additional staffing flexibility owing to their ability to bill directly, something AA's cannot do. This does mean that in some places CRNAs are hired in numbers greater than AA's.

That said, I do not know of any AA actively seeking work who is unemployed at 3 months post-graduation. As F'ed as the anesthesia ecosystem is at this point, there is a new generation of anesthesiologists, many of whom value the perceived increase in competence and decease in angina-inducing-behavior that comes from working with AA's.

 

[bambam92]

@OP if you have a 2.9 GPA and TWO years left of classes, you are giving up wayyy too early. If you crush around a 4.0 these next two years, you will finish with a 3.45. This GPA out of an ivy is fine for DO--and if you rock the MCAT possible for MD. But if you just do an extra year postbac you could get it up to 3.6 range. If you are serious about being a doctor--I say don't give up! Cause I say you definitely aren't screwed. If you want it bad enough you could make it happen. Especially if you are saying you haven't taken many pre-reqs? If thats the case you could really be in a good place, as you could just rock them if you dedicate yourself. So don't give up if you really want this.

Watch eric thomas videos for motivation--I find the guy incredible for myself.

Good luck!

 

[Boolean]

Part of being a physician is humility. I suggest you learn it.

 

[touchpause13]

My state school's nursing program requires most of the pre-med reqs (everything but ochem II and physics). The mean GPA for those accepted is 3.9. There definitely is a very broad spectrum when it comes to nursing programs.

This is why I don't get why people hate on nurses (RNs at least) , I watched many people fail to get into the nursing program with good grades. Being accepted there is a big freakin deal. Same goes for PT.

 

[chillaxbro]

Hello,

As much as I want to be a doctor, I don't think the stress and anxiety it causes me is worth it. I also don't think I can even compete with a class of intelligent premeds. I do, however, want to do something healthcare related.

What are some options for someone with an ivy Biology major, low science GPA, and lots of ECs? Preferably, not nursing?

Edit: I read through some of the comments and lost all sympathy for you. Enjoy your life as an accountant OP.

 

[Godspeedyou]

Is this picture a lie? Why does everyone here say 3.6+ if you even want to consider MD.
I'm seeing 80% for 3.2

http://www.aei-ideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/medschool2.jpg

 

[Boolean]

Is this picture a lie? Why does everyone here say 3.6+ if you even want to consider MD.
I'm seeing 80% for 3.2

http://www.aei-ideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/medschool2.jpg

2-4 years ago, and you're not factoring in all the races (where are you getting 80% from? A single race?)

 

[solitarius]

Sorry to say, but you're the latest in a long run of SDN'ers who went to a top school and got handed.

While I can imagine that being in such an environment can feed the ego and set lofty baseline expectations for the future, you need to come to grips with 1) a terrible economy, and 2) greater competition for the dwindling number of good career/jobs. Hope you get it together & figure it out.

 

[Godspeedyou]

2-4 years ago, and you're not factoring in all the races (where are you getting 80% from? A single race?)

So what's it like now? I can't imagine it's radically different over a couple years

 

[WillburCobb]

This is why I don't get why people hate on nurses (RNs at least) , I watched many people fail to get into the nursing program with good grades. Being accepted there is a big freakin deal. Same goes for PT.

I think it’s because there's such a broad spectrum in terms of education for RNs. On one end there are ivies and schools with super competitive programs that set the bar high, have very high standards, and provide you with a solid bachelor’s education and degree. On the other end there are tech and for profit schools that have ridiculously low (if any) standards – this episode of Frontline comes to mind http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/ (the section on nursing programs is ridiculous). These programs provide students with an associates or laughable bachelor’s education, yet once they pass the NCLEX (which students can take again and again until they pass) nurses from these programs are considered on par with those who came from programs on the other end of the spectrum. I’ve worked with MANY nurses and the best and most competent were always BSNs that came from programs with high, yet perfectly reasonable standards. The profession would do itself a huge a favor, both in terms of quality of nurses and respect towards it, if they cut all 2 years RN programs and held much higher accreditation standards, though this will very likely never happen.