Options for ex-premed?

[Dayaa]

Hello,

As much as I want to be a doctor, I don't think the stress and anxiety it causes me is worth it. I also don't think I can even compete with a class of intelligent premeds. I do, however, want to do something healthcare related.

What are some options for someone with an ivy Biology major, low science GPA, and lots of ECs? Preferably, not nursing?

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[Mad Jack]

You might be able to get into a low tier PA program. Of the top of my head, some other health care careers outside of nursing: anesthesiologist assistant, perfusionist, psychologist, occupational therapist, audiologist, speech-language pathologist, physical therapist, respiratory therapist, dentist, podiatrist, optometrist, nuclear physicist, clinical social worker, pharmacist, x-ray tech, radiation therapist, imaging tech (CT, MRI), EMT, and paramedic.

 

[Dayaa]

You might be able to get into a low tier PA program. Of the top of my head, some other health care careers outside of nursing: anesthesiologist assistant, perfusionist, psychologist, occupational therapist, audiologist, speech-language pathologist, physical therapist, respiratory therapist, dentist, podiatrist, optometrist, nuclear physicist, clinical social worker, pharmacist, x-ray tech, radiation therapist, imaging tech (CT, MRI), EMT, and paramedic.

I was considering dentist/pharmacist, but it seems like the GPA needed is almost just as high.

 

[WillburCobb]

I was considering dentist/pharmacist, but it seems like the GPA needed is almost just as high.

What's your GPA? Post-bac work is always an option to fix it.

 

[Mad Jack]

I was considering dentist/pharmacist, but it seems like the GPA needed is almost just as high.

You could probably get into a pharmacy program if you applied broadly enough. They aren't nearly as picky as they used to be.

 

[Dayaa]

What's your GPA? Post-bac work is always an option to fix it.

2.9 in science classes with two more years left. Not looking at every getting higher than a B/B+ in upperlevel/prereq classes.

 

[Frostbite22]

I enjoy being a clinical lab scientist if you are into analyzing samples and all that jazz

 

[Dayaa]

As long as it requires college... I know many people who went to Harvard to get their PhD with a lot less lower GPAs than mine.

 

[WillburCobb]

2.9 in science classes with two more years left. Not looking at every getting higher than a B/B+ in upperlevel/prereq classes.

Two years of solid improvement could raise your GPA into the competitive range for many of the programs @Mad Jack mentioned, and even DO programs (though you'd still have to do well on admissions exams). I went from years of a C/B average to a straight 4.0 my last couple years. Its definitely do-able. Re-evaluate your study methods and approach to coursework, utilize office hours, tutoring services, and online services (e.g., Kahn Academy).

 

[Dayaa]

Two years of solid improvement could raise your GPA into the competitive range for many of the programs @Mad Jack mentioned, and even DO programs (though you'd still have to do well on admissions exams). I went from years of a C/B average to a straight 4.0 my last couple years. Its definitely do-able. Re-evaluate your study methods and approach to coursework, utilize office hours, tutoring services, and online services (e.g., Kahn Academy).

Thanks, I wish I could. But even if I know the material backwards and forwards I do average. And average in a class full of ivies is okay, but not for medical school. Maybe when I graduate, I can take some classes and it'll seem like I improved even though the competition just went down.

 

[Mad Jack]

The ultimate equalizer is the MCAT. If you take it and you are as smart as you believe yourself to be by virtue of being an Ivy league student, you'll score in the high 30s. If you have a high 30s MCAT and an Ivy GPA in the low 3.0 range, some DO school will take you.

I'm sorry, but when I hear "boo hoo I go to an Ivy, the competition is too high for me and I'd get a 4.0 anywhere else" I just can't help but be all

Transfer to an easier school if you are so certain of your abilities. GPA>>>>>>prestige

 

[Dayaa]

The ultimate equalizer is the MCAT. If you take it and you are as smart as you believe yourself to be by virtue of being an Ivy league student, you'll score in the high 30s. If you have a high 30s MCAT and an Ivy GPA in the low 3.0 range, some DO school will take you.

I'm sorry, but when I hear "boo hoo I go to an Ivy, the competition is too high for me and I'd get a 4.0 anywhere else" I just can't help but be all

Transfer to an easier school if you are so certain of your abilities. GPA>>>>>>prestige

I can't transfer and the only reason my science GPA is close to 3.0 is because of the classes I took at a state school.

 

[WillburCobb]

Thanks, I wish I could. But even if I know the material backwards and forwards I do average. And average in a class full of ivies is okay, but not for medical school. Maybe when I graduate, I can take some classes and it'll seem like I improved even though the competition just went down.

Like I mentioned above post-bac work is always an option and schools really won't care that you did it at a different university. I had several pre-med and pre-dent classmates who had attended either ivies or top 20s and did post-bac work at my university (state school), who were all succesful in being accepted. You seem to have a defeatist attitude about your situation as well which doesn't lend well to making improvements.

 

[Dayaa]

And I know there have been instances when I could have done better than I did, mostly freshman year, and I can't get over my past and how stupid I was to not take it more seriously.

 

[Mad Jack]

I can't transfer and the only reason my science GPA is close to 3.0 is because of the classes I took at a state school.

You can always transfer. You did it once before. If you don't, you're the one wrecking your future by playing out of your league. Go back to the easier school where you performed better, it is the best course of action you could possibly take.

 

[WillburCobb]

Transfer to an easier school if you are so certain of your abilities. GPA>>>>>>prestige

This. School reputation will do very little for you, if anything at all, in the admissions process.

 

[Dayaa]

Like I mentioned above post-bac work is always an option and schools really won't care that you did it at a different university. I had several pre-med and pre-dent classmates who had attended either ivies or top 20s and did post-bac work at my university (state school), who were all succesful in being accepted. You seem to have a defeatist attitude about your situation as well which doesn't lend well to making improvements.

Very true, but if I do that then I should change majors so I don't do more damage, that's why I'm wondering what else I can do with my major, but low GPA.

 

[asw98]

You should look into perfusion. It seems really interesting and is only two more years of school.

 

[Dayaa]

You can always transfer. You did it once before. If you don't, you're the one wrecking your future by playing out of your league. Go back to the easier school where you performed better, it is the best course of action you could possibly take.

I've been here since freshman year, but can't transfer. I want to graduate from my school.

 

[Dayaa]

It's really annoying. Professors give 10% As when they're supposed to give 25% As like most other schools. Classes full of premeds, of course the top succeed even though (almost) everyone has the ability to do well in medical school. Professors that are annoyed by your questions. I'm just so sick of it. But I think I should just switch majors if research is the only option for a Bio major.

 

[Dayaa]

This. School reputation will do very little for you, if anything at all, in the admissions process.

I know, but it's not an option, at all. Unless I want to go home to a terrible environment and pay more for a state school.

 

[Mad Jack]

I've been here since freshman year, but can't transfer. I want to graduate from my school.

Then you have sealed your own fate. You could've been a doctor, but you chose an Ivy league undergrad degree you'll never use instead. Don't you ever blame this on anything or anyone but yourself. I'm sure 3 years of awesome undergrad and a degree with that sexy Ivy logo will make up for a lifetime of not fulfilling your dreams though.

 

[masaraksh]

It's really annoying. Professors give 10% As when they're supposed to give 25% As like most other schools. Classes full of premeds, of course the top succeed even though (almost) everyone has the ability to do well in medical school. Professors that are annoyed by your questions. I'm just so sick of it. But I think I should just switch majors if research is the only option for a Bio major.

please. they're not supposed to owe you anything.

 

[WillburCobb]

Very true, but if I do that then I should change majors so I don't do more damage, that's why I'm wondering what else I can do with my major, but low GPA.

Major in something in which you are genuinely interested, and you'll likely see GPA improvements. Bio major pre-meds are a dime a dozen. Just like where you attend undergrad doesn't matter in admissions, nor does your major.

I know, but it's not an option, at all. Unless I want to go home to a terrible environment and pay more for a state school.

If you were competitive enough for an ivy I'm sure to could easily get a pretty decent scholarship at any other university. No one said going back home was your only other option, there are a ton of schools out there to choose from.

 

[Dayaa]

I think I'll just major in something I hate but has high employment rate and then take my prereqs + more at a state school.

 

[Dayaa]

Major in something in which you are genuinely interested, and you'll likely see GPA improvements. Bio major pre-meds are a dime a dozen. Just like where you attend undergrad doesn't matter in admissions, nor does your major.




If you were competitive enough for an ivy I'm sure to could easily get a pretty decent scholarship at any other university. No one said going back home was your only other option, there are a ton of schools out there to choose from.

But when you transfer into a school they look at your current grades and I don't think I'll get the same scholarships I did as a senior in high school.

 

[Dayaa]

please. they're not supposed to owe you anything.

Right, and they don't. Ask them how to do better than average, they say you're lucky to be average here.

 

[lnvictus]

If you were competitive enough for an ivy I'm sure to could easily get a pretty decent scholarship at any other university. No one said going back home was your only other option, there are a ton of schools out there to choose from.

Transfer students don't really get that much merit aid/scholarships though.

Also, can you change your avatar it bothers me to look at that face

 

[WillburCobb]

But when you transfer into a school they look at your current grades and I don't think I'll get the same scholarships I did as a senior in high school.

See post 22

 

[Dayaa]

God I wish I knew this two years ago.

 

[Boolean]

You're asking for advice yet batting it away in the same stroke.

Many options have been listed here. Your ivy prestige does not affect you as much as you'd like to believe. Your performance in high school is not representative of your performance in university. Do not expect grades to be given to you as readily.

The ivy league is great — if you can keep up. Thus far, you've shown you can't. You're better off salvaging your GPA at a state school than graduating well below the bottom of the bucket in an ivy.

 

[Dayaa]

You're asking for advice yet batting it away in the same stroke.

Many options have been listed here. Your ivy prestige does not affect you as much as you'd like to believe. Your performance in high school is not representative of your performance in university. Do not expect grades to be given to you as readily.

The ivy league is great — if you can keep up. Thus far, you've shown you can't. You're better off salvaging your GPA at a state school than graduating well below the bottom of the bucket in an ivy.

Thanks, I already decided to change majors and then do a post-bacc

 

[NorthernMav]

@Dayaa I got into medical school after graduating college with roughly a 2.8; although I did post-bacc work and an SMP. So do not let your current GPA sway your decision. As for the intelligent pre-meds around you, do not pay mind to them. You are likely capable of performing just as well, if not better than them once you stop letting others get into your head.

On a related topic, you should really check out this short talk by Malcolm Gladwell at Google's Zeitgeist Americas. I think it represents exactly what you are going through. Check it out:

 

[Dayaa]

@Dayaa I got into medical school after graduating college with roughly a 2.8; although I did post-bacc work and an SMP. So do not let your current GPA sway your decision. As for the intelligent pre-meds around you, do not pay mind to them. You are likely capable of performing just as well, if not better than them once you stop letting others get into your head.

On a related topic, you should really check out this short talk by Malcolm Gladwell at Google's Zeitgeist Americas. I think it represents exactly what you are going through. Check it out:

Thank you, it's just so devastating. I don't understand how my school has such a high medical acceptance rate when so little people do well in classes.

 

[Boolean]

Thank you, it's just so devastating. I don't understand how my school has such a high medical acceptance rate when so little people do well in classes.

Statistically speaking, more students from these schools tend to better at MCAT. Also, quite a few of the top schools will discourage you from applying if you don't have the stats to gather an acceptance or more. They'll recommend you do a postbacc or something similar (this happens at a few of the top twenties I've spoken to)

 

[Dayaa]

Statistically speaking, more students from these schools tend to better at MCAT. Also, quite a few of the top schools will discourage you from applying if you don't have the stats to gather an acceptance or more. They'll recommend you do a postbacc or something similar (this happens at a few of the top twenties I've spoken to)

I see, I just don't know if I should take a break now. If I keep doing this damage to my GPA, an A in a postbacc will have a lot less significance if I'm a Bio major than something with no science classes.

 

[tantacles]

Hello,

As much as I want to be a doctor, I don't think the stress and anxiety it causes me is worth it. I also don't think I can even compete with a class of intelligent premeds. I do, however, want to do something healthcare related.

What are some options for someone with an ivy Biology major, low science GPA, and lots of ECs? Preferably, not nursing?

PA is definitely an option. Keep in mind, though, that those programs require a tremendous number of clinical hours (some of them require paid clinical hours), so it could take quite a quite a while to work towards that goal.

Podiatrists (specialists of the lower extremity) typically have lower GPAs and MCATs than physicians, and they have very similar jobs and very similar training, so that might be a field to consider. Clinical podiatrists work with a lot of patients who have diabetes, and surgical podiatrists can be involved in orthopedics and sports medicine.

 

[Dayaa]

Thanks guys, I think I unofficially decided to change my major, officially later this week.

 

[mizzu]

CRNA makes a lot - 100-150k

What do you have against nursing?

PA, AA, specialized PA, EMT, technicians of different sorts

 

[Dayaa]

CRNA makes a lot - 100-150k

What do you have against nursing?

PA, AA, specialized PA, EMT, technicians of different sorts

Because I could have gone to community college and not even had a bachelors. I'm switching majors, Buisnesswoman until I take my prereqs at a state school.

 

[WillburCobb]

Because I could have gone to community college and not even had a bachelors.

You need a bachelors degree to get into CRNA programs

 

[Dayaa]

You need a bachelors degree to get into CRNA programs

I meant other nursing..

 

[Plecopotamus]

Because I could have gone to community college and not even had a bachelors. I'm switching majors, Buisnesswoman until I take my prereqs at a state school.

There are multiple types of nursing degrees, and most are not available through community college. I have friends who went to Yale, Harvard, and Penn who are amazing nurses of various types doing well in their fields and really enjoying the role they play in their patients' care. Going to an ivy league school does not put you above nursing.

 

[Dayaa]

There are multiple types of nursing degrees, and most are not available through community college. I have friends who went to Yale, Harvard, and Penn who are amazing nurses of various types doing well in their fields and really enjoying the role they play in their patients' care. Going to an ivy league school does not put you above this field.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Goro]

Clinical lab tech

Hello,

As much as I want to be a doctor, I don't think the stress and anxiety it causes me is worth it. I also don't think I can even compete with a class of intelligent premeds. I do, however, want to do something healthcare related.

What are some options for someone with an ivy Biology major, low science GPA, and lots of ECs? Preferably, not nursing?

 

[Mad Jack]

Thank you, it's just so devastating. I don't understand how my school has such a high medical acceptance rate when so little people do well in classes.

Admission statistics at most Ivy schools only include those students that are rubber stamped by the premedical advisory committee. If you fall below their standards, they will not endorse your application, and this will not be included in their official statistics.

 

[Mad Jack]

Agree to disagree.

I'm sure the Yale and Columbia schools of nursing are absolutely horrid institutions that are unworthy of any Ivy league student to attend. Both offer direct entry advanced practice nursing programs specifically for people with bachelor's degrees and will not let you attend without one.

 

[Plecopotamus]

Agree to disagree.

You are awfully arrogant for someone who came seeking advice because of poor academic performance. As someone who holds degrees from multiple ivies, there is no agree to disagree here--that you were lucky enough to get into one of these schools does NOT put you above anything or entitle you to anything. The one surefire way to start shutting doors opened by your degree (and let's be honest, if you keep doing this poorly in school, those doors are few regardless of the school on your CV) is to have this attitude that you're above people who took other life paths . . . plenty of whom are going to be smarter, more motivated, and more impressive than you.

 

[Dayaa]

You are awfully arrogant for someone who came seeking advice because of poor academic performance. As someone who holds degrees from multiple ivies, there is no agree to disagree here--that you were lucky enough to get into one of these schools does NOT put you above anything or entitle you to anything. The one surefire way to start shutting doors opened by your degree (and let's be honest, if you keep doing this poorly in school, those doors are few regardless of the school on your CV) is to have this attitude that you're above people who took other life paths . . . plenty of whom are going to be smarter, more motivated, and more impressive than you.

Yup, I should have taken another path. I wish I didn't care about academics so that I could go to my state school, think I am the smartest person ever because I get As there, instead of being in classes with actually smart people and doing average because they are so smart which destroyed my confidence.

 

[WillburCobb]

I'm sure the Yale and Columbia schools of nursing are absolutely horrid institutions that are unworthy of any Ivy league student to attend. Both offer direct entry advanced practice nursing programs specifically for people with bachelor's degrees and will not let you attend without one.

My state school's nursing program requires most of the pre-med reqs (everything but ochem II and physics). The mean GPA for those accepted is 3.9. There definitely is a very broad spectrum when it comes to nursing programs.