Optometry or echocardiography

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Can someone give me a brief history on this push to corporate optometry? How did this change take place?

When you are finished with school, will you always have a job somewhere? Do the bottom rung students end up in corporate and the top of the class end up in private practices?

Any stats on these assertions?

The increased number of ODs in commercial optometry involves several factors. First, corporate America realized selling eyewear can be very profitable. U.S. Shoe started Lenscrafters back in the 80s because they realized they could make a bunch of money selling "one hour" glasses.

Another important factor is the education costs in the U.S. have increased at a rate that is at least twice the rate of inflation. At the same time OD incomes are basically stagnant. Starting salaries are the same (adjusted for inflation) as they were in the mid 80s. Let's face it, it's easier to show up for work at walmart than open your own practice. Corporate jobs are relatively easy to get, although in some metro areas its getting harder with more ODs competing for the jobs.

The stigma of working commercial isn't as bad as it used to be. When I graduated you would be excluded from AOA membership if you worked retail. Today we welcome everyone with open arms because we want the dues money and we don't care where it comes from.

Having a job in retail is more a matter of attitude than ability. I'm not going to ask for BSK documentation when I hire an associate. I'm going to find someone with a great personality, confidence, some concept of patient satisfaction, and at least entry level skills. I want someone who will help grow the practice and isn't afraid to help market the business. Having entrepreneurial drive is more important in landing a good private practice position than grade point average.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I wanted to add one other point here.....

Jason claims that the reason that the profession is going downhill is the increase in commercial opticals and student loan debt.
QUOTE]

KHE,

I think it is fair to routinely inform new posters that you were, at one time, probably even more negative then Jason (and myself and others). You were VERY down on optometry for many, many years. You continued to search and search and search and move and move around and you finally found a great practice to buy in to.

I think Jason (and many of us) are simply are making the point that many--make that MOST-- ODs have to work MUCH harder than should be necessary and move MUCH further than should be necessary and wait MORE time than should be necessary and get a bit LUCKIER than should be necessary to land a great optometry job.

In other words, success in optometry in the future will be more about luck , dogged-determination and the willingness to go wherever it takes than it will be about skills, education and talent.
 
To the OP:

Don't forget that private & commercial practice are not the only games in town. I completed a residency after OD school and now work in the hospital setting. I make a 6 figure salary, great benefits, do direct patient care as well as mentor students, and am mentally challenged on a daily basis.

I also have several friends who also completed residencies and practice in large multi-specialty practices and who love their jobs.

Just some food for thought......

And there may be a total of 5 hospital jobs for optometrists in the entire known universe. Unless you are talking about a VA hospital, which is little more than a welfare old folks home with lazy people that spend 2 years in the navy and twisted their ankle and now try to fake 40% disability so they can get free eye exams, glasses and medical care for life.

How do I know? I am a combat veteran and worked briefly in a VA hospital and I know what I speak of. The only reason ODs are even there is because OMDs won't lower themselves to slum it there. The only OMDs you will see there are old, sorry ones working until they die. And then the ODs are usually subservient to the old, incompetent Ophthalmologist.

Oh yea, pay for ODs in the VA system is less than dentists, podiatrists and even psychologists. Sad, sad, sad........ SO why would the VA offer less pay to a professional that completes an equal length of training.........let me think...........let me think? Hmmm.........ANYONE? :shrug:

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PODIATRIST (Staff)

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A physician assistant (which was a bachelor's degree up till a few years ago and now a master's degree) will be making equal or more than a doctor of optometry in the VA.

A pharm (which is only recently a doctorate degree and many currently working have masters or even bachelors degrees). They are worth MUCH more than an OD.

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$68,809.00 to $111,695.00 / Per Year Open Period:
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But surely, DOCTORs of Optometry would make more than techs with a bachelors or master degree---- right. NOPE! BUT surely we are higher on the food chain than physical therapists (PTs). NOPE.

A few more current VA openings for your viewing pleasure.

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$66,248.00 to $86,120.00 / Per Year


Physical Therapist | "To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan." #150;Abraham Lincoln Tour of Duty:
Agency:
Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health Administration Location:
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$87,159.00 to $102,243.00 / Per Year Open Period:
Monday, October 24, 2011 to Monday, November 07, 2011
 
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KHE,

I think it is fair to routinely inform new posters that you were, at one time, probably even more negative then Jason (and myself and others). You were VERY down on optometry for many, many years. You continued to search and search and search and move and move around and you finally found a great practice to buy in to.

My posting history is readily available and anyone who has spent any time on here knows my convoluted history. I want to say that I was not down on optometry the profession. I was down on my own situation. In optometry I saw lots of young doctors making it and doing well. (You in particular) But when I couldn't get on medical plans it left me essentially doing routine care for routine care pay. That was no good.

The second major source of frustration was in retrospect, partly self made. I always knew I wanted to be a practice owner. As I searched for a practice to buy, I spent far too much time dealing with losers and small time thinkers. That led me to spend far too much time trying to make unworkable situations workable. I wish I would have reconginzed sooner but hey.....that's part of life.

I think Jason (and many of us) are simply are making the point that many--make that MOST-- ODs have to work MUCH harder than should be necessary and move MUCH further than should be necessary and wait MORE time than should be necessary and get a bit LUCKIER than should be necessary to land a great optometry job.

I've never said anything to the contrary. I agree with just about all of that. It IS harder than it probably should be.

In other words, success in optometry in the future will be more about luck , dogged-determination and the willingness to go wherever it takes than it will be about skills, education and talent.
[/quote]

Well, I think it's been that way for more than 40 years. The only thing I don't agree on is a willingness to go "wherever it takes." I think you can make it in most places as long as you can get on medical plans. I've always felt that and my position on that remains the same.
 
Tippytoe's string of salary quotes perfectly demonstrates how optometry has succeeded in driving the value of it's own services into the abyss. The VA system is not a global representation of salaries for the listed professions and yes, ODs have a higher earning potential than clinical psychologists or PAs. But his examples very nicely demonstrate an "apples to apples" comparison of how a large institution values each of those professions' services. Sad? Absolutely, and we've allowed the devaluation to happen by way of:

1) ignoring the constant flooding of excess ODs into the system
2) the ever-tightening choke-hold by vision plans
3) the sheepish attitude of the AOA when it comes to pushing the real issues
4) the cancerous expansion of commercial presence in optometry (see #1)

All of those factors, and certainly some others, have led to a state in which our basic unit of service, the "comprehensive eye exam," is now something that is considered a "free add on" to a pair of glasses.

The slope of the "uphill" battle that is facing grads of OD programs these days is only getting steeper and steeper with each new class of graduates. Access to medical panels is certainly something that optometry needs more of, but it's not going to fix anything. The underlying problem is here and it's here to stay.

Also, emily, if you're embarrassed about being called out on your recent "liily-pad hop" over to optom123, please don't try to drag down the rest of us. You're one of the few on this forum who would stoop to that level of lameness. Next you'll be telling me I'm Tippytoe. :laugh:
 
Why do you even care? You already said you're doing well (i find this hard to believe). Also, you are wrong lmao. Plenty of jobs offering better pay.

These potential jobs are useless since nobody would consider working in a VA full-time when there are better opportunities in coroprate/pp.

Head on over to NOVA's placement service and you'll find practices offering six figures+...why don't you talk about those jobs?





But surely, DOCTORs of Optometry would make more than techs with a bachelors or master degree---- right. NOPE! BUT surely we are higher on the food chain than physical therapists (PTs). NOPE.

A few more current VA openings for your viewing pleasure.

___________________________

MEDICAL TECHNOLOGIST "To care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan" #150; by serving and honoring the men and women who are America's Veterans.

Agency:
Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health Administration Location:
Anchorage, AK United States Salary:
$66,248.00 to $86,120.00 / Per Year


Physical Therapist | "To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan." #150;Abraham Lincoln Tour of Duty:
Agency:
Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health Administration Location:
Alameda County, California (Oakland, CA) Salary:
$87,159.00 to $102,243.00 / Per Year Open Period:
Monday, October 24, 2011 to Monday, November 07, 2011
 
Why do you even care? You already said you're doing well (i find this hard to believe). Also, you are wrong lmao. Plenty of jobs offering better pay.

These potential jobs are useless since nobody would consider working in a VA full-time when there are better opportunities in coroprate/pp.

Head on over to NOVA's placement service and you'll find practices offering six figures+...why don't you talk about those jobs?

Our resident clueless Cleopatra over here has yet again been duped by her own dimwittedness. About 3/4 of the listings on Nova's site are for NVI or something equivalent to it. Do you even know what NVI is? Tell you what - why don't you go work for them and let us know how it works out. Please, keep the brilliance flowing. :laugh:

Hey look at that, "opticalboutique.com" is offering a 6 figure income - not a salary, but "potential." God, sounds like an AWESOME opportunity to make a ton of money for someone else. Go for it!
 
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I think you have mistaken me for Jason K/eyes only/judgement dragon. The emoticon above would ideally apply to those posters.

I suppose you have no purpose of posting deflated salary data , other than to deter students from becoming Optometrists.

After all, why would a practicing optician/optometrist come on SDN and post salary data which undermines the earning potential of an average OD?
 
I suppose you have no purpose of posting deflated salary data , other than to deter students from becoming Optometrists.

After all, why would a practicing optician/optometrist come on SDN and post salary data which undermines the earning potential of an average OD?

Oh, this is just getting too good. :corny:

I love it...."deflated?" Honeybuns, those numbers aren't deflated! :laugh:
 
Oh, this is just getting too good. :corny:

I love it...."deflated?" Honeybuns, those numbers aren't deflated! :laugh:

I'm gonna take you off my ignore list because I don't think you will be posting here again.

you ready? You asked for it!
 
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