Optometry or echocardiography

[Coolscreenname]

I am in a situation where I can either go become an echocardiographer (aka ultra sound tech working in a heart clinic or hospital) OR I can do any type of career. I have deeply considered Optometry.

I originally went to school for actuarial and did that for a while. I worked in the field for a couple of years, but it did not work out for me for various reasons. I have the opportunity to switch and do anything I want. I am in my late twenties and I have no family obligations. School will be 100% paid for. I am very strong in the sciences (chem, physics, bio, math).

I thought Optometry would be a good choice for me, considering I could use more higher level cognitive skills through school and on the job. Echocardiography, on the other hand, would only take me 2.5 years. The pay is 50-80k a year and finding a job isn't too difficult. Only drawback is that it is a technical career and I feel like I could get bored easily since I really don't get to use higher cognitive skills.

So, if Optometry school would not cost me a dime and I could do it, do you think it would be financially feasible and give me career happiness?

The thing I worry about would be:

1. find a job somewhere
2. not being laid off
3. making enough money to live
4. not having to be a businessman/marketer

Basically, can you make good money in the field (take loans out of the equation)? Is there good job security? Do you have to be a businessman/salesman to be successful?

Candid answers are GREATLY appreciated.

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[KHE]

I am in a situation where I can either go become an echocardiographer (aka ultra sound tech working in a heart clinic or hospital) OR I can do any type of career. I have deeply considered Optometry.

I originally went to school for actuarial and did that for a while. I worked in the field for a couple of years, but it did not work out for me for various reasons. I have the opportunity to switch and do anything I want. I am in my late twenties and I have no family obligations. School will be 100% paid for. I am very strong in the sciences (chem, physics, bio, math).

I thought Optometry would be a good choice for me, considering I could use more higher level cognitive skills through school and on the job. Echocardiography, on the other hand, would only take me 2.5 years. The pay is 50-80k a year and finding a job isn't too difficult. Only drawback is that it is a technical career and I feel like I could get bored easily since I really don't get to use higher cognitive skills.

That's like deciding between a salmon dish or a pasta dish. They are two completely different things.

So, if Optometry school would not cost me a dime and I could do it, do you think it would be financially feasible and give me career happiness?

The thing I worry about would be:

1. find a job somewhere
2. not being laid off
3. making enough money to live
4. not having to be a businessman/marketer

Basically, can you make good money in the field (take loans out of the equation)? Is there good job security? Do you have to be a businessman/salesman to be successful?

Candid answers are GREATLY appreciated.

You will always be able to find a job in optometry. Whether it's a professionally satisfying job is a whole other story.

As long as you are working for someone else, you can always be laid off. (another reason why i think working for yourself is the way to go.)

You should always be able to make enough money to live on in optometry. You will not starve. You will not eat out of a dumpster.

Depends what you define as being a "businessman or a marketer" but understand that your value to any prospective employer is going to be your ability to generate money for that employer. To the extent that that requires being a "businessman or a marketer" well then you'll need to be a businessman and a marketer.

 

[Jason K]

You will always be able to find a job in optometry. Whether it's a professionally satisfying job is a whole other story.

You should always be able to make enough money to live on in optometry. You will not starve. You will not eat out of a dumpster.

That's the selling point for optometry? .... that you won't starve and you won't eat out of a dumpster? If I were looking at careers right now, especially ones that cost as much as optometry, setting the bar at something above the level that will provide minimal risk of starvation and dumpster diving seems like asking too little.

I don't think anyone on this forum has ever claimed that optometrists will be starving in the streets and living from dumpster refuse. (Except, of course, for nethag when he's blatantly attempted to misquote me and put words in my mouth that were never spoken.)

The problem is that there aren't enough "good spots" to land, whether it's buying an office, starting one, or being employed. At 2000 new ODs each year and 35-40K in practice already, there just aren't enough slots to be filled. So, as I've said before, a few will succeed, most will not, and we'll all lose.

As for the OD vs echo tech, Jesus, it's getting worse. We used to be an MD vs OD profession, now we're a tech vs OD profession. What's next? Maybe nursing assistant vs OD?

 

[speyeder]

As for the OD vs echo tech, Jesus, it's getting worse. We used to be an MD vs OD profession, now we're a tech vs OD profession.

You do have a point here. I wonder if the proliferation of and the lowering of admissions standards by some of these new optometry schools has devalued an OD degree to some extent.

 

[KHE]

That's the selling point for optometry? .... that you won't starve and you won't eat out of a dumpster? If I were looking at careers right now, especially ones that cost as much as optometry, setting the bar at something above the level that will provide minimal risk of starvation and dumpster diving seems like asking too little.

I don't think anyone on this forum has ever claimed that optometrists will be starving in the streets and living from dumpster refuse. (Except, of course, for nethag when he's blatantly attempted to misquote me and put words in my mouth that were never spoken.)

The problem is that there aren't enough "good spots" to land, whether it's buying an office, starting one, or being employed. At 2000 new ODs each year and 35-40K in practice already, there just aren't enough slots to be filled. So, as I've said before, a few will succeed, most will not, and we'll all lose.

As for the OD vs echo tech, Jesus, it's getting worse. We used to be an MD vs OD profession, now we're a tech vs OD profession. What's next? Maybe nursing assistant vs OD?

The OP SPECIFICALLY ASKED about "having enough money to live."

Jesus Jason, we all know you hate optometry and every day regret your career choice. We all know that you are here to save the soul of all unsuspecting sinners, I mean people considering optometry as a career. We know you love to pepper as many as threads as possible with your finger wagging negativity.

A while back, I offered you the opportunity to have an article posted with a sticky right at the top of the optometry AND the pre-optometry forums. WHy don't you just do that and be done with it?

 

[Jason K]

The OP SPECIFICALLY ASKED about "having enough money to live."

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to catchphrases originally used by blatantly lying pharmacist posters who may or may not frequent this site.

Jesus Jason, we all know you hate optometry and every day regret your career choice. We all know that you are here to save the soul of all unsuspecting sinners, I mean people considering optometry as a career. We know you love to pepper as many as threads as possible with your finger wagging negativity.

I don't hate optometry. I've never once said that and I've made several statements to the contrary. If I truly hated optometry, I'd be parroting what you're saying so the profession would sink even faster. I hate what's happened to it and what continues to happen to it. I hate that so many of my colleagues will quietly, behind closed doors, admit that the profession is sinking. I hate that no small number of my classmates have actually left the field and are doing other things. And mostly, I hate that so many students are getting screwed right now, paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a degree that will certainly, without any question, land most them in a Walmart or its equivalent. I can guarantee you that most of the preops on this site envision themselves in a PP setting, owning a big, sprawling, highly successful office. Some of them will pull it off, but most of them won't. Please don't come back with "Well they have to plan so they don't end up in Walmart..." There aren't enough spaces for even half the grads in PP. Not even a quarter of them. You've admitted it yourself. Most of them will end up in a doc-in-the-box - that's a fact and you've acknowledged it.

I may be a little blunt in saying this, but I honestly believe that you, personally, are contributing to the problem. You're telling thousands of potential ODs that they can have a successful, lucrative careers in the awesome field of optometry. You might be right for a very small percentage of them. Nearly all of them won't, and that's the part they're missing. In the process of marketing your situation, one that is highly unique, you're welcoming thousands of potentials into a profession that doesn't need them and setting them up for disappointment. In the process, the profession is getting further and further bloated with excess practitioners whom it doesn't need.

A while back, I offered you the opportunity to have an article posted with a sticky right at the top of the optometry AND the pre-optometry forums. WHy don't you just do that and be done with it?

I never said I wouldn't take you up on that offer.

 

[Coolscreenname]

Ok. I am worried about the negative sentiments reflected by the previous posters. I will revise my question.

Here is my main concern: Is Optometry very financially unrewarding GIVEN the investment in time and money? For a career that costs 100k+ in debt and 4 years of forgone income, is it really not worth it?

Can you at least make 80k a year? That's all I really ask for. I am not expecting to make 150k. If I do, then that is just gravy. Pharmacists make 100k a year after the same amount of schooling. I just want a job that is mentally challenging and pays well for the schooling.

What is wrong with working for an optical center within a Walmart?

Is this really a miserable profession? What would you have done if you could do it all over again, considering you have aptitudes in the sciences?

 

[Jason K]

What is wrong with working for an optical center within a Walmart?

I say this with complete sincerity. If you are ok working in a Walmart or something along those lines, and you're ok maxing out your income in the high 5 figures, you'll be very content with optometry as long as you don't find the work monotonous. There is nothing "wrong" with working at Walmart, but you'll likely use about 5% of your training in that environment. It's basically a glorified refracting technician gig where you provide scripts for glasses and contacts so the optical can sell, sell, sell. Services are given away for nothing so that the company can sell materials. It's not what optometry started out as, but that's quickly what it is becoming. If you don't mind that, then you'll have no problem making a living in optometry.

 

[KHE]

I don't hate optometry. I've never once said that and I've made several statements to the contrary. If I truly hated optometry, I'd be parroting what you're saying so the profession would sink even faster. I hate what's happened to it and what continues to happen to it. I hate that so many of my colleagues will quietly, behind closed doors, admit that the profession is sinking. I hate that no small number of my classmates have actually left the field and are doing other things.

Jason,

I think it would help you out a LOT if you could surround yourself with some younger ODs who are actually successful and enjoy their work. If all you're doing is slaving away in some commercial refraction mill with other ODs feeling the same as you, it's going to distort your perception.

You say you're not in Chicago. If you're anywhere in the northeast, send me a PM and maybe we can get together. If you're not, PM me anyways and let me know where you actually practice. I can assure discretion. Perhaps I can hook you up with someone who can mentor you a bit and get you back on your feet professionally.

 

[optom123]

Ok. I am worried about the negative sentiments reflected by the previous posters. I will revise my question.

Here is my main concern: Is Optometry very financially unrewarding GIVEN the investment in time and money? For a career that costs 100k+ in debt and 4 years of forgone income, is it really not worth it?

Can you at least make 80k a year? That's all I really ask for. I am not expecting to make 150k. If I do, then that is just gravy. Pharmacists make 100k a year after the same amount of schooling. I just want a job that is mentally challenging and pays well for the schooling.

What is wrong with working for an optical center within a Walmart?

Is this really a miserable profession? What would you have done if you could do it all over again, considering you have aptitudes in the sciences?

Re: income; you are virtually guaranteed 80k/yr. Anything less than that would probably be for part time work.

 

[Jason K]

Jason,

I think it would help you out a LOT if you could surround yourself with some younger ODs who are actually successful and enjoy their work. If all you're doing is slaving away in some commercial refraction mill with other ODs feeling the same as you, it's going to distort your perception.

You say you're not in Chicago. If you're anywhere in the northeast, send me a PM and maybe we can get together. If you're not, PM me anyways and let me know where you actually practice. I can assure discretion. Perhaps I can hook you up with someone who can mentor you a bit and get you back on your feet professionally.

I keep in touch with over half of the ODs in my own class and probably a couple of dozen from classes ahead of me and behind me. I don't have any shortage of younger ODs to associate with. The attitudes I come across range from "Whatever, it pays the bills" to "I'd give anything to take my degree back to my OD school, take a dump on it, and leave it on the front steps of the main entrance." I don't know too many ODs who graduated recently who are thrilled with the profession - I think that says something. The ones who do like it are in oddball places like the Navy or the VA. It works for them, but most people probably wouldn't take to that setting. Are there some out there who are happy? Sure, a guy in the class ahead of me inherited a booming, 2M/yr grossing practice after working for his dad for a few years. That guy is not complaining much. Those types of situations are few and far between. If there were boat-loads of happy, young, successful, private-practice-owning ODs out there, I wouldn't be on here. Realistically, how many ODs from the first graduating class of WesternU or one of the other new schools will end up doing what you say they can do? I'd say the number will be approximately zero - they just don't know it yet.

I'm not saying an OD or anyone else who graduates with any degree is entitled to anything. You have to work your ass off in any profession to make it work, but the profession has to hold up its end of the deal, especially when it's so expensive and requires so much time, effort, and training. Optometry is unable to support its own weight these days and it's only going to get worse. New grads have to overcome not only the obstacles that everyone faces when entering a profession, but they also have to deal with the drastic shortcomings of the profession that have come about in recent years.

You say any one of these kids can succeed, and I'd say that in a theoretical world, that might be so. In reality, most of them will end up somewhere they don't want to be. When that happens, they're going to wonder where their plan went wrong. You're basically speaking to a few thousand hopeful gold miners saying "There's gold in them thar hills! All you gotta do is go on out 'are 'n git it!" You'll be right for a handful of those gold miners, but for the others, they're going to come up empty handed. As the quote below demonstrates, most of the pre-ops on this site believe they'll graduate with their OD, be able to find a respectable job, and find one that pays a "guaranteed 80K."

I appreciate the offer, but I'm just fine in my current situation and I'll be moving onto greener pastures starting in January. I'll be in a land far, far away from optometry. As bad as the situation is for MDs/DOs, there's a net loss of about 7K physicians per year in the US. Compare that to optometry, a much smaller profession, which is experiencing a net GAIN of about 1600 per year. How is that going to play out in any way other than disaster? I'm sure in 10 years when there's twice as many ODs out there as there are today, I won't regret the decision.

Re: income; you are virtually guaranteed 80k/yr. Anything less than that would probably be for part time work.

I have no idea where you are getting this idea. You are not guaranteed an income of 80K, especially if you want to work in a PP setting. You have to get a job, then you have to get one that pays 80K. In optometry, neither of those things is guaranteed for any new graduate - hell it's not even guaranteed for an experienced OD. This is exactly the attitude that sets people up for a disastrous disappointment when they graduate. If you think there's a ton of 80K/yr awesome optometry jobs out there waiting for you, you're going to be in for a cold shower, especially since you've got at least another 4-5 years before you're pumped out of an OD factory.

 

[Eyes Only]

Re: income; you are virtually guaranteed 80k/yr. Anything less than that would probably be for part time work.

Where do you get your information? You are constantly posting nonsense and calling it facts. The only way to guarantee an income is to be employed. Employed ODs make the least amount of money of all of us. I'd be surprised if the average salary for employed ODs straight out of school is $80k.

Jason has a point, its people like you who are most likely to end up disappointed with the profession, because you have all of these unrealistic ideas.

You give us average salaries of $50/hr at graduation. The day rate in my area is $300 to $350 and has been for the past 10 to 12 years. You don't want to be responsible for recruiting patients. This is one of the main functions of a successful practitioner. You probably don't want to get your hands dirty selling eyewear. It's where 2/3 of our income is generated.

Your posts continue to demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea of what is going on in this profession. I strongly recommend you spend some time with ODs in different setting before you invest 4 years and $200 grand getting an OD degree.

I think optometry is a good profession. I like my work. I'm happy with my life. But, I'd think twice before spending $200k to get an OD degree.

 

[optom123]

Where do you get your information? You are constantly posting nonsense and calling it facts. The only way to guarantee an income is to be employed. Employed ODs make the least amount of money of all of us. I'd be surprised if the average salary for employed ODs straight out of school is $80k.

Jason has a point, its people like you who are most likely to end up disappointed with the profession, because you have all of these unrealistic ideas.

You give us average salaries of $50/hr at graduation. The day rate in my area is $300 to $350 and has been for the past 10 to 12 years. You don't want to be responsible for recruiting patients. This is one of the main functions of a successful practitioner. You probably don't want to get your hands dirty selling eyewear. It's where 2/3 of our income is generated.

Your posts continue to demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea of what is going on in this profession. I strongly recommend you spend some time with ODs in different setting before you invest 4 years and $200 grand getting an OD degree.

I think optometry is a good profession. I like my work. I'm happy with my life. But, I'd think twice before spending $200k to get an OD degree.

Where do your practice?

I'm sorry to hear that you make less than the average OD. It must be where you are located or perhaps you need to change the way you practice. In your area the day rate might be low, but that is not representative of the entire profession. In fact, I believe its probably the bottom 10% etc.

As far as data, I could point you to several online reports/surveys...but honestly, I have spoken to several ODs and the going rate is $400/day. Corporate offers much more than that, along with opticals. This is basically what the surveys/reports say also.

Nobody is spending 200k on Optometry school. It is actually 120k/4years give or take a few grand. Relatively, that's a pretty sweet deal I would say.

I never said I don't want to recruit patients. Of course you need to do this to build your practice up. This is a given. What I did say, however, was that I would not do this for another practice where I have no long-term share of profits.

Also, having a large retail component, such as selling glasses etc, in a professional practice setting, can be VERY profitable if done right. Not sure what you are implying by saying "getting my hands dirty with "eyewear", when the optician does most of the work for you.

Nice try.

 

[OpticalBlackOut]

imemily is back?

 

[KHE]

I keep in touch with over half of the ODs in my own class and probably a couple of dozen from classes ahead of me and behind me. I don't have any shortage of younger ODs to associate with. The attitudes I come across range from "Whatever, it pays the bills" to "I'd give anything to take my degree back to my OD school, take a dump on it, and leave it on the front steps of the main entrance." I don't know too many ODs who graduated recently who are thrilled with the profession - I think that says something.

The issue is not whether you have young ODs to associate with. You need young SUCCESSFUL ODs to associate with.....not a bunch of people who think "whatever pays the bills."

I appreciate the offer, but I'm just fine in my current situation and I'll be moving onto greener pastures starting in January. I'll be in a land far, far away from optometry.

Well thank God for that. Would you mind sharing what you're moving onto so others in a similar situation like yours can have a perspective?

 

[Jason K]

The issue is not whether you have young ODs to associate with. You need young SUCCESSFUL ODs to associate with.....not a bunch of people who think "whatever pays the bills."

That's just it - there aren't very many young, successful ODs out there. We both know it. Are there some? Yes, but their numbers are dwarfed by the sea of ODs who have been barfed out into the commercial bonanza. You just don't see it. I'm looking at this profession without blinders on, as best I can. You're looking at it from within one of the most successful offices in the US.

I can point to one or two people from my class who are doing very well and they're doing well because they walked into pre-arranged family owned practices. Non one who bought is kicking ass, they're "getting by." Most of them say they would not do it over again. Some say they would, with reservation.

Face it - becoming successful in optometry is a much steeper climb than it used to be, not that it was ever easy. It's to the point now that it's just not worth it. You're selling a dream that most of these applicants will never realize, I hope you realize that yourself.

Well thank God for that. Would you mind sharing what you're moving onto so others in a similar situation like yours can have a perspective?

As I've mentioned before, I'll be taking over a family-owned business which I have worked extensively in. The timing just works out well and the arrangements are very favorable in my direction. There will be many ODs following me out of the profession in the coming years, it's inevitable.

As a matter of fact, I think the most key component of the pre-optometry "plan" you speak of should be a solid exit strategy, in case their dreams of a booming private practice don't work out. After all, there simply isn't enough room for most of them so by default, most of them will need a way out. That is, unless they want to work in commercial. There will be an opening in my area in a couple of months

imemily is back?

Oh dear god! I was wondering where she went. Apparently, she's morphed into Optom123 - conveniently at the same time she hit rock bottom with her first username. EyesOnly is right, that style of ignorance is tough to conceal and it comes "right through the cloth" on that one.

 

[Eyes Only]

imemily is back?

You're right!!

It IS Emily...now I recognize the tone and style of the ignorance.

 

[KHE]

That's just it - there aren't very many young, successful ODs out there. We both know it. Are there some? Yes, but their numbers are dwarfed by the sea of ODs who have been barfed out into the commercial bonanza. You just don't see it. I'm looking at this profession without blinders on, as best I can. You're looking at it from within one of the most successful offices in the US.

You say I'm looking at it within a successful practice and that you "don't have blinders on." You actually do. You see what you want to see, every where you turn. I on the other hand see both sides....I see the people like you but I also see plenty of young, successful ODs who are happy with their careers, making good money and who did NOT inherit dad's practice. I've attended meetings and seminars with them. There's a heck of a lot more out there than you think. You just won't allow yourself to see.

But no matter, you're onto greener pastures. The family business.

For me personally, I'm selling no dream as you claim. I stand to gain nothing by having optometrists happy.

 

[Coolscreenname]

My family is suggesting NOT to do Optometry, but echocardiography. Here are the reasons. If anyone would shine some light on this, please let me know.



A medical profession such as echocardiagraphy would be a good fit for you for the following reasons:

1) take less time to finish school
2) pays well
3) there are alot of different work environments such as hospital, MD's office, etc
4) you would be one on one with a patient and go at you own pace
5) you won't have to take your job home with you
6) very little job stress if any at all
7) it is a respectable field
8) you can work anywhere you want in USA

The only negative factor against this field is one that you mentioned on the phone - you want to achieve something at a higher level of knowledge and that it may be mundane.

You should reconsider becoming an optometrist because the negative factors in your case heavily outweigh the positive ones.

Positive:
1) respectable field

Negative:

1) takes at least 4 years to finish school, and you will use up all your savings just to live
2) you have to bring in your own patients, if not, you make no money
3) lots of stress running your own business: doing exams, inventory of products, paying bills, and a multitude of other things involved in running a business
4) you say you could work for someone else like Costco or Lenscrafters, but you have to get hired first in a competitive field. These jobs are not as easy to come by as you think.
5) It is not easy to just start your own practice and you can't just move when you want to.
6) this field does not pay as much as you think- you will have to deal with people's insurance plans, pay your staff benefits, pay overhead, etc.. When it's all said and done, that doesn't leave much for you.
7) this job will be just as mundane as being an echocardiographer, but with more stress.

 

[blazenmadison]

I am in a situation where I can either go become an echocardiographer (aka ultra sound tech working in a heart clinic or hospital) OR I can do any type of career. I have deeply considered Optometry.

Go to echocardio school.

Thread should be closed.

 

[Coolscreenname]

Go to echocardio school.

Thread should be closed.

Why?

 

[Jonbrout]

Go to echocardio school.

Thread should be closed.

I lol'd. Anywho, sometimes overly obsessed with 3eb fan checking in (swanky avatar).

 

[KHE]

Why?

You have listed eight positives for echo and only one for optometry along with seven negatives for optometry.

Why are even having this discussion? Sounds to me like your mind is made up.

 

[Coolscreenname]

You have listed eight positives for echo and only one for optometry along with seven negatives for optometry.

Why are even having this discussion? Sounds to me like your mind is made up.

I didn't list those. Family member did. I reposted them. I don't think that is the entire picture. Optometry sounds more financially and mentally rewarding, but I think the only way to know is to shadow. I am just looking for unbiased opinions. If I shadowed someone, do you really think they are going to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Doubt it. They have a vested interest to say its a great profession. I wanted to hear the positives and negatives. I agree that echocardiography is a completely different career, but I was afraid I would get bored at it.

 

[speyeder]

My family is suggesting NOT to do Optometry, but echocardiography. Here are the reasons. If anyone would shine some light on this, please let me know.



A medical profession such as echocardiagraphy would be a good fit for you for the following reasons:

1) take less time to finish school
2) pays well
3) there are alot of different work environments such as hospital, MD's office, etc
4) you would be one on one with a patient and go at you own pace
5) you won't have to take your job home with you
6) very little job stress if any at all
7) it is a respectable field
8) you can work anywhere you want in USA

The only negative factor against this field is one that you mentioned on the phone - you want to achieve something at a higher level of knowledge and that it may be mundane.

You should reconsider becoming an optometrist because the negative factors in your case heavily outweigh the positive ones.

Positive:
1) respectable field

Negative:

1) takes at least 4 years to finish school, and you will use up all your savings just to live
2) you have to bring in your own patients, if not, you make no money
3) lots of stress running your own business: doing exams, inventory of products, paying bills, and a multitude of other things involved in running a business
4) you say you could work for someone else like Costco or Lenscrafters, but you have to get hired first in a competitive field. These jobs are not as easy to come by as you think.
5) It is not easy to just start your own practice and you can't just move when you want to.
6) this field does not pay as much as you think- you will have to deal with people's insurance plans, pay your staff benefits, pay overhead, etc.. When it's all said and done, that doesn't leave much for you.
7) this job will be just as mundane as being an echocardiographer, but with more stress.

If you don't like running your own business and you don't like marketing yourself, then you should probably become an echocardiographer. If you become an optometrist and own your own practice you will have to do the above. If you don't want to do the above, then you will be limited to working for corporate optometry, where starting pay is initially higher but you will be capped as far as earning potential. Additionally, there is the possibility that salaries in corporate optometry will fall with the recent deluge of optometry students.

 

[KHE]

I didn't list those. Family member did. I reposted them. I don't think that is the entire picture. Optometry sounds more financially and mentally rewarding, but I think the only way to know is to shadow. I am just looking for unbiased opinions. If I shadowed someone, do you really think they are going to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Doubt it. They have a vested interest to say its a great profession. I wanted to hear the positives and negatives. I agree that echocardiography is a completely different career, but I was afraid I would get bored at it.

Why would they have a vested interested in singing the praises of the field? If anything, they would have a vested interest in DISCOURAGING you from entering the field.

 

[KHE]

Negative:

1) takes at least 4 years to finish school, and you will use up all your savings just to live

Any professional degree will require that.

2) you have to bring in your own patients, if not, you make no money

In echocardiography, you will be relying on other people to provide you with patients. If they can't, or aren't very good at it you will be let go. Would you rather rely on yourself for patients or someone else?

3) lots of stress running your own business: doing exams, inventory of products, paying bills, and a multitude of other things involved in running a business

It's much less stressful when you're doing it for yourself instead of for someone else.

4) you say you could work for someone else like Costco or Lenscrafters, but you have to get hired first in a competitive field. These jobs are not as easy to come by as you think.

Yes they are. They are a dime a dozen. In fact, according to Jason, they're all that's out there.

5) It is not easy to just start your own practice and you can't just move when you want to.

That is true. Starting a practice is a time consuming and expensive process and if you decide you want to just up and move to Santa Fe, NM it's a bit more of a hassle unless you're content to just walk away from the practice.

6) this field does not pay as much as you think- you will have to deal with people's insurance plans, pay your staff benefits, pay overhead, etc.. When it's all said and done, that doesn't leave much for you.

I make a lot more than the average salary of ophthalmologists.

BUT YOU'RE ALREADY BOUGHT AN ESTABLISHED PRACTICE!!!! AAAIIIEEEEE!!! NEW GRADS CAN'T DO THAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!

7) this job will be just as mundane as being an echocardiographer, but with more stress.

Perhaps, but again, when it's your stress and you're reaping the rewards of it it's not nearly that stressful.

 

[Coolscreenname]

Thank you for your candid reply.

Any professional degree will require that.



In echocardiography, you will be relying on other people to provide you with patients. If they can't, or aren't very good at it you will be let go. Would you rather rely on yourself for patients or someone else?



It's much less stressful when you're doing it for yourself instead of for someone else.



Yes they are. They are a dime a dozen. In fact, according to Jason, they're all that's out there.



That is true. Starting a practice is a time consuming and expensive process and if you decide you want to just up and move to Santa Fe, NM it's a bit more of a hassle unless you're content to just walk away from the practice.



I make a lot more than the average salary of ophthalmologists.





Perhaps, but again, when it's your stress and you're reaping the rewards of it it's not nearly that stressful.

 

[Jason K]

You say I'm looking at it within a successful practice and that you "don't have blinders on." You actually do. You see what you want to see, every where you turn. I on the other hand see both sides....I see the people like you but I also see plenty of young, successful ODs who are happy with their careers, making good money and who did NOT inherit dad's practice. I've attended meetings and seminars with them. There's a heck of a lot more out there than you think. You just won't allow yourself to see.

But no matter, you're onto greener pastures. The family business.

For me personally, I'm selling no dream as you claim. I stand to gain nothing by having optometrists happy.

I'm looking at the optometry that exists in reality, not the one that exists in today's few highly successful private offices. Am I biased by my own position? Sure, we all are, but I'm making my claims and predictions based on real trends, real numbers, and real problems that no one argues against. Optometry is an ailing profession and it's one in which most new additions will never reach their goals. A few will - those are the minutia that you are speaking to. Most of them will end up in a mill against their desires. Those are the folks I'm appealing to. You're disregarding the fact that by welcoming in thousands, you're basically contributing to the further destruction of an already weak profession. Do you deny that the profession would be far more likely to recover what ever it is that is recoverable at this point, if thousands of new ODs would be stopped on the production line? I don't think many of your colleagues would agree with you if you did say that.

I've never said you were selling a dream for your own benefit. Obviously, you stand to gain nothing by welcoming in thousands of unsuspecting applicants. But your desire to see others do what you've done, something that is simply not going to be possible because of the lack of "seats," will lead to an end result in which a lot of future optometrists one day realize they followed you into this profession without understanding what lay ahead of them.

 

[Eyes Only]

Although you don't agree on the state of the profession, you are both right. And you both see the world through the bias of your own experiences, we all do.

There will always be highly successful ODs. There will also be lots of corporate drones. I think Jason is right, the trend is more negative than positive. Not every student on this forum will be successful and it is naive to think this is possible given the changes taking place. However some of them will be highly successful.

Face it, you are both right about the profession.

I think the days where every entering optometry student can fulfill the dream of successful self employment are over. Some of them will, but many will end up in corporate practice because of the heavy student debt. Our job should be to help these students get a realistic idea about what they face at graduation, which is where we don't all agree. But let the students look at the range of opinions and decide for themselves if this is the right career.

None of us really benefit from having more ODs, and we don't benefit by having a bunch of sucker-punched new grads who were told everything would be fine (KHE, I know you haven't said this, but I'm sure some of the optometry school recruiters do).

KHE, the responses to your job offer post just proves that there are some truly clueless students waiting to join the ranks. These are the people most in need of a reality check which seems to be what Jason is trying to do.

 

[KHE]

Although you don't agree on the state of the profession, you are both right. And you both see the world through the bias of your own experiences, we all do.

Face it, you are both right about the profession.

Jason's position seems to be that only a scant few graduates will end up on a satisfying career path and that the vast majority will be left languishing in undesireable commercial situations.

My position is that the percentage of people who end up successful in private practice will be a lot higher than what he thinks and that it could be even a lot higher still of more students had more of a plan and began thinking about their careers sooner than "after boards." Jason hates to hear that and will simply say things like "the profession IS going down the tubes and it's a FACT because Chuck Norris said so" or whatever but I stand by the assertion that a majority of new graduates with a properly thought through plan and some willingness to think outside the box (the big corporate box) can make their career dreams come true.

KHE, the responses to your job offer post just proves that there are some truly clueless students waiting to join the ranks. These are the people most in need of a reality check which seems to be what Jason is trying to do.

That's a separate issue. One person (optom123) thinks it's not a good deal. That's their perogative. Just about every other person who's responded thinks that it is.

To me the problem isn't whether any graduate thinks that my offer is good or not.

 

[KHE]

I wanted to add one other point here.....

Jason claims that the reason that the profession is going downhill is the increase in commercial opticals and student loan debt.

I don't agree with the first part. Commercial opticals largely canibalize each other.

The issue of student loan debt is a legitimate one. But even that is not insurmountable.

To me, a bigger issue than student loan debt is the type of person who is pursuing optometry and being admitted to the program these days. And I don't just mean the fact that admission standards seem to be declining.

 

[Eyes Only]

I wanted to add one other point here.....

Jason claims that the reason that the profession is going downhill is the increase in commercial opticals and student loan debt.

I don't agree with the first part. Commercial opticals largely canibalize each other.

The issue of student loan debt is a legitimate one. But even that is not insurmountable.

To me, a bigger issue than student loan debt is the type of person who is pursuing optometry and being admitted to the program these days. And I don't just mean the fact that admission standards seem to be declining.

Agree, corporate optometry has always been with us, and this is unlikely to change. I think the student debt contributes to the problem because students have unrealistic expectations about income. I started at practice at graduation and understood the first few years would be difficult. We would all be better off if more students with entrepreneurial attitudes were recruited to the profession. Maybe the AOA could concentrate on this instead of meaningless board certification.

 

[Coolscreenname]

Agree, corporate optometry has always been with us, and this is unlikely to change. I think the student debt contributes to the problem because students have unrealistic expectations about income. I started at practice at graduation and understood the first few years would be difficult. We would all be better off if more students with entrepreneurial attitudes were recruited to the profession. Maybe the AOA could concentrate on this instead of meaningless board certification.

Can someone give me a brief history on this push to corporate optometry? How did this change take place?

When you are finished with school, will you always have a job somewhere? Do the bottom rung students end up in corporate and the top of the class end up in private practices?

Any stats on these assertions?

 

[optom123]

People people, just add JasonK to your ignore list. I guarantee you that SDN will feel much better if you do this.

Try it

 

[Jason K]

People people, just add JasonK to your ignore list. I guarantee you that SDN will feel much better if you do this.

Try it

How about if they just compile a list of all of your screen names, emily and ignore those? I welcome your ignorance. It virtually guarantees that you will enter this profession. As I usually end my posts in your direction....you're doomed, emily..........dooooooooomed.

 

[q1we3]

I wonder what will happen if Jason and Emily ever meet in person, face to face. lol

 

[ddown]

To the OP:

Don't forget that private & commercial practice are not the only games in town. I completed a residency after OD school and now work in the hospital setting. I make a 6 figure salary, great benefits, do direct patient care as well as mentor students, and am mentally challenged on a daily basis.

I also have several friends who also completed residencies and practice in large multi-specialty practices and who love their jobs.

Just some food for thought......

 

[dinkus]

To the OP:

Don't forget that private & commercial practice are not the only games in town. I completed a residency after OD school and now work in the hospital setting. I make a 6 figure salary, great benefits, do direct patient care as well as mentor students, and am mentally challenged on a daily basis.

Is that really something you want to admit?

 

[q1we3]

To the OP:

Don't forget that private & commercial practice are not the only games in town. I completed a residency after OD school and now work in the hospital setting. I make a 6 figure salary, great benefits, do direct patient care as well as mentor students, and am mentally challenged on a daily basis.

I also have several friends who also completed residencies and practice in large multi-specialty practices and who love their jobs.

Just some food for thought......

what residency did you do?

 

[Shnurek]

To me, a bigger issue than student loan debt is the type of person who is pursuing optometry and being admitted to the program these days. And I don't just mean the fact that admission standards seem to be declining.

I agree, a lot of people taking up seats in school have no real desire to run their own practice. They just want to work part time ~3 days or so and have a family to take care of on the side. I mean that's great and I feel this is a more laid-back profession but we also need stand up people that will lead our profession and fix its image problem.

 

[Shnurek]

People people, just add JasonK to your ignore list. I guarantee you that SDN will feel much better if you do this.

Try it

Lol I stopped reading JasonK's posts a LONG time ago. Its like those ads that you see on the side of the webpage. You train your brain to filter them out.

 

[Jason K]

Lol I stopped reading JasonK's posts a LONG time ago. Its like those ads that you see on the side of the webpage. You train your brain to filter them out.

Funny - I tend not to do that with yours as I find the naive optimism far too entertaining. In the case of imemily/optom123, it's more like watching a violent train wreck. You don't want to look, but you just can't help yourself.

You both will be in the trenches soon. I hope you have some better "weapons" than delusions of moving to some moose town or as emily puts it "just go to work in a corporate office for a low stress, high-paying job." Ha! I love it

 

[optom123]

I wonder who this is in this picture....any one know!?

 

[Shnurek]

You both will be in the trenches soon. I hope you have some better "weapons" than delusions of moving to some moose town or as emily puts it "just go to work in a corporate office for a low stress, high-paying job." Ha! I love it

I have no problem relocating. In fact, I desire to relocate and that is part of the reason I chose optometry. I have no familial obligations and no it is not just my delusion Also, I speak a foreign language fluently so I can move to areas that have a high percentage of such people and Spanish is my third language which I am slightly proficient in.

 

[Jason K]

I wonder who this is in this picture....any one know!?

Is it you??.....after you graduate from optometry school and realize that there was a very good reason virtually every poster on this site has at some point called you out on your absolute blistering lack of knowledge, ridiculous assumptions, and unbelievably naive view of the profession that you believe you understand?

I had no idea you were such a burley gal - hey, nothin' wrong with that. It's a good janitor build...gotta be able to really swing that mop around with some authority. I'm sure when you graduate and realize the inevitable has happened, that you really were completely unaware of what was ahead of you, there will be all sorts of delightful jobs for you in the janitorial arts. Shnurek has a future picture of himself on another thread, sporting a nice blue jumpsuit - maybe you guys could link up and create your own janitorial / maid service company.

For the love of Mary, though, if you're going to try to be all cute and sly with your posts, could you at least have the courtesy to use proper English? "Any one" used in that context, is one word....as in "anyone." You really need to work on your grammar or your referral letters are going to get you laughed at more than your posts on this forum.

Also, I speak a foreign language fluently so I can move to areas that have a high percentage of such people and Spanish is my third language which I am slightly proficient in.

Good luck with that. Since you seem to be the resident linguistics expert, can you please help your janitor lady-friend with her grasp of the English language? She seems to struggle with it both in terms of concepts and the written word.

 

[KHE]

For the love of Mary, though, if you're going to try to be all cute and sly with your posts, could you at least have the courtesy to use proper English? "Any one" used in that context, is one word....as in "anyone." You really need to work on your grammar or your referral letters are going to get you laughed at more than your posts on this forum.
.

Of all the flames on the internet, spelling and grammar flames are by far the lamest and always serve to make the flamer look like a pompous jerk. Don't give in to the temptation.

 

[mjl]

To the OP:

Don't forget that private & commercial practice are not the only games in town. I completed a residency after OD school and now work in the hospital setting. I make a 6 figure salary, great benefits, do direct patient care as well as mentor students, and am mentally challenged on a daily basis.

I also have several friends who also completed residencies and practice in large multi-specialty practices and who love their jobs.

Just some food for thought......

ddown, I was just wondering if you could talk a little more about your position in the hospital (ie how competative are these types of positions to obtain, do you answer to an OMD, what types of cases do you primarily get, etc) This is definately a side to the profession that i feel, at least on this forum, does not receive the same attention that the standard pp/corporate duo gets.

Thanks!

 

[Jason K]

Of all the flames on the internet, spelling and grammar flames are by far the lamest and always serve to make the flamer look like a pompous jerk. Don't give in to the temptation.

I only give into temptation when they're committed by pompous jerks. When someone makes a personal attack on a public forum, idiotic grammatical errors (that are clearly not typos) are open season. We all make typos. Only *****s make mistakes like that. Optometry doesn't need any more additions, let alone ones who can't write a referral letter without sounding like they left school in the 5th grade. She may need to go back and take English 101 again before applying.

Wen peeple dont rite so good, it makes them look stoopid. I cant stand wen peeple are dum and cant rite with propor english. (see how annoying that is?)

 

[Eyes Only]

ddown, I was just wondering if you could talk a little more about your position in the hospital (ie how competative are these types of positions to obtain, do you answer to an OMD, what types of cases do you primarily get, etc) This is definately a side to the profession that i feel, at least on this forum, does not receive the same attention that the standard pp/corporate duo gets.

Thanks!

It doesn't get the same attention because these positions, while very good, are very rare. I know a lot of ODs and I only know one in a hospital setting.