OR Scheduling Software

[Soparklion]

I'm looking for a Excel or Google Docs program to simply make my daily OR schedule... I need to assign attendings and residents/CRNAs to by 20 anesthesia locations each day. I'd like to add rules regarding the number of ORs each attending can run (4) but not with a resident (2), etc... Anyone have a solution? I'm considering writing my own in Visual Basic, but that would require... effort.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[criticalelement]

I'm looking for a Excel or Google Docs program to simply make my daily OR schedule... I need to assign attendings and residents/CRNAs to by 20 anesthesia locations each day. I'd like to add rules regarding the number of ORs each attending can run (4) but not with a resident (2), etc... Anyone have a solution? I'm considering writing my own in Visual Basic, but that would require... effort.

why cant you do it by hand with a pencil? dont get fancy kid

 

[pjl]

why cant you do it by hand with a pencil? dont get fancy kid

We get really fancy, and scan our paper schedule of similar size into a printer that automatically emails the entire group daily.

If you make a really nice one you can probably sell it, making the extra effort worth it.
You should really aim to make it an app though that autosyncs with everyones phone or tablet, assuming you are going to put effort in. It would be nice to have a scheduler drop a case on the schedule, you to move it to a location, and add staff.
When you finish, I will pay a decent chunk for it. Or better yet, sell it to Epic and I can just have it.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

 

[pgg]

I'm considering writing my own in Visual Basic, but that would require... effort.

That's a deep rabbit hole.

If you make a really nice one you can probably sell it, making the extra effort worth it.

That one's even deeper.

I made a really nice one and gave some thought to commercializing it. The problem is that anyone who pays a non-trivial sum of money for the privilege of using it is going to expect 24/7 technical support, and unless I went all entrepreneurial about it and hired staff, it'd be me on the hook for that support. If the sum of money is trivial, then there's no point.

Basically, there's no happy medium where it's worth the time and hassle to try to make money off it.

Before I went to med school, I did independent contracting programming work. This was in the early dot com boom era when every idiot with venture capital threw money at anything on the web. I made some money. It was great, except for all the stupid customers. I quit to be a doctor.

 

[jwk]

There are tons of commercial programs that do what you want. Don't know if I'm supposed to recommend one openly, but PM me for info. Over 200 providers, 100 operating rooms scattered in about 18 locations, and we just added the capability to add students in addition to the doc and anesthetist assigned to each room. Most of these programs are easily scalable. I know small departments that use the same or similar programs. After an initial setup cost, there is an annual licensing fee, usually per user. Everyone can access their schedule 24/7 from any internet connection, works great on mobile devices, can do self-service swaps (with admin approval if desired) and a host of other statistical functions. Our program also does timekeeping, integrates with several different OR scheduling software platforms, and downloads necessary data directly to our payroll program. Many of these vendors will be at ASA in Chicago in a couple weeks. Again, if you want particulars, PM me.

 

[pgg]

After an initial setup cost, there is an annual licensing fee, usually per user

We looked at some commercial options but even the discounted government rates were too high to justify to bean counters who think "just use Excel, it's free" is a reasonable option. $5-10K to set up, then annually recurring fees around $15-20K.

Qgenda sure looked nice though.

 

[cchoukal]

We started using QGenda about a year ago and it's GREAT for making the monthly schedule. Not sure it's equipped to do the daily location assignment piece (which I think is what the OP is asking?).

 

[pgg]

We started using QGenda about a year ago and it's GREAT for making the monthly schedule. Not sure it's equipped to do the daily location assignment piece (which I think is what the OP is asking?).

When I talked to Qgenda, they claimed it could be done ... part of the custom setup which we'd be paying $10K for. They even said they could have it pull data from our surgery scheduling system (though they admitted they were unfamiliar with that software, which was itself non-commercial). The demo didn't make it clear that their system would be ideal for daily assignments, just that it could be done. I didn't look into it more carefully because even the government discounted rates per person per month were too high.

I looked at a number of physician scheduling programs and most looked fine for making monthly schedules that were fairly well defined and static. Got a clinic or a call schedule to make? All of them could do it. For daily assignments for an anesthesia department, not so much. There's just too much variability in what locations we cover each day, what kind of person needs to be put in each location each day, the last-minute nature of our daily scheduling, and the way department's needs (ORs, preop, sedation services, etc) intersect with individuals' needs (meetings, research, academics). All of that stuff on separate calendars. It seemed like all of those commercial options were made for not-anesthesia groups that just work in one clinic or ward and have simple call requirements.

When I made the daily schedule, I wanted (on one screen) every location that needs a body, the procedures to be done at that location (and who's doing them), and a list of available people with annotations of their subspecialty qualifications (if any), their recent assignments, requests, non-clinical duties that day, call obligations, all of it.


They use Qgenda where I'm a fellow. I'm not privy to the complete daily assignment process but it sure looks like they're doing it the hard way, manually looking at Calendar A to see which ORs need people every day and picking someone from Calendar B and entering it into Calendar C. The Qgenda calendar has a list of names assigned to things like "Cardiac OR 1" and "Peds OR 1" for faculty but someone's still got to take that info and enter it into the surgery schedule for actual ORs, and add a fellow or resident (who aren't in Qgenda system at all, as far as I can tell). I just assumed that they're not using Qgenda to its full potential for some reason. Or maybe the sales rep just says "yeah it can do that" to every question ...

 

[B-Bone]

I can see why a big academic department with tons of people/locations/subspecialties might need something like this, but 20 rooms? We have more than 20 locations to cover on a daily basis and the call guy bangs out the daily assignments in like 10 minutes the night before on the EPIC OR list. There's no reason to bring "logic-based rules" and "automation" into this scenario. I just try to divy up things logically so nobody has a kid, a thoracotomy, and a total joint all starting at the same time while somebody else has two or three staggered MAC cases. Use that noodle, man!

 

[jwk]

When I talked to Qgenda, they claimed it could be done ... part of the custom setup which we'd be paying $10K for. They even said they could have it pull data from our surgery scheduling system (though they admitted they were unfamiliar with that software, which was itself non-commercial). The demo didn't make it clear that their system would be ideal for daily assignments, just that it could be done. I didn't look into it more carefully because even the government discounted rates per person per month were too high.

I looked at a number of physician scheduling programs and most looked fine for making monthly schedules that were fairly well defined and static. Got a clinic or a call schedule to make? All of them could do it. For daily assignments for an anesthesia department, not so much. There's just too much variability in what locations we cover each day, what kind of person needs to be put in each location each day, the last-minute nature of our daily scheduling, and the way department's needs (ORs, preop, sedation services, etc) intersect with individuals' needs (meetings, research, academics). All of that stuff on separate calendars. It seemed like all of those commercial options were made for not-anesthesia groups that just work in one clinic or ward and have simple call requirements.

When I made the daily schedule, I wanted (on one screen) every location that needs a body, the procedures to be done at that location (and who's doing them), and a list of available people with annotations of their subspecialty qualifications (if any), their recent assignments, requests, non-clinical duties that day, call obligations, all of it.


They use Qgenda where I'm a fellow. I'm not privy to the complete daily assignment process but it sure looks like they're doing it the hard way, manually looking at Calendar A to see which ORs need people every day and picking someone from Calendar B and entering it into Calendar C. The Qgenda calendar has a list of names assigned to things like "Cardiac OR 1" and "Peds OR 1" for faculty but someone's still got to take that info and enter it into the surgery schedule for actual ORs, and add a fellow or resident (who aren't in Qgenda system at all, as far as I can tell). I just assumed that they're not using Qgenda to its full potential for some reason. Or maybe the sales rep just says "yeah it can do that" to every question ...

We're doing what you're wanting with our program and it's not QGenda. PM me if interested.

 

[jwk]

I can see why a big academic department with tons of people/locations/subspecialties might need something like this, but 20 rooms? We have more than 20 locations to cover on a daily basis and the call guy bangs out the daily assignments in like 10 minutes the night before on the EPIC OR list. There's no reason to bring "logic-based rules" and "automation" into this scenario. I just try to divy up things logically so nobody has a kid, a thoracotomy, and a total joint all starting at the same time while somebody else has two or three staggered MAC cases. Use that noodle, man!

You have to look at it from a dollars and cents viewpoint. How much does it cost to have a board certified anesthesiologist make out the schedule each day / month?

 

[sigrhoillusion]

"You have to look at it from a dollars and cents viewpoint. How much does it cost to have a board certified anesthesiologist make out the schedule each day / month?"

Don't they have fellowships for anesthesia scheduling nowadays...?

 

[pgg]

I can see why a big academic department with tons of people/locations/subspecialties might need something like this, but 20 rooms? We have more than 20 locations to cover on a daily basis and the call guy bangs out the daily assignments in like 10 minutes the night before on the EPIC OR list. There's no reason to bring "logic-based rules" and "automation" into this scenario. I just try to divy up things logically so nobody has a kid, a thoracotomy, and a total joint all starting at the same time while somebody else has two or three staggered MAC cases. Use that noodle, man!

I don't know where the tipping point is, but it's somewhere between the 4-person dept I was part of 5 years ago and the 70+ person dept I was part of a year ago (with high staff turnover and med students/interns/non-anes residents rotating through weekly).

 

[pgg]

We're doing what you're wanting with our program and it's not QGenda. PM me if interested.

If it's a commercial program, you can post it here. I'd be curious to see it. I ended building a custom system that does all that for us, so the problem is solved for us.

You have to look at it from a dollars and cents viewpoint. How much does it cost to have a board certified anesthesiologist make out the schedule each day / month?

Also, errors. It wasn't so much the 30-60 min it took every day to bang out the schedule, as the morning-of hassles when someone had a meeting that got overlooked, or a resident rotated off service and wasn't there to set up a room while the attending drank coffee, or we'd agreed (5 weeks prior) to run an extra cath lab but the email/post-it/whatever didn't make it to the list, etc. Too many moving and changing parts to not screw things up.

 

[jwk]

If it's a commercial program, you can post it here. I'd be curious to see it. I ended building a custom system that does all that for us, so the problem is solved for us.



Also, errors. It wasn't so much the 30-60 min it took every day to bang out the schedule, as the morning-of hassles when someone had a meeting that got overlooked, or a resident rotated off service and wasn't there to set up a room while the attending drank coffee, or we'd agreed (5 weeks prior) to run an extra cath lab but the email/post-it/whatever didn't make it to the list, etc. Too many moving and changing parts to not screw things up.

The program we use is Open Tempo. It's our fourth and last program. It's far better than anything else we've come across.

Even for smaller practices - these programs will keep track of things you want to know or use in scheduling. Want to make sure nobody gets stuck in OB more than once a week, or to make sure everyone does their fair share of OB without relying on someone's memory? This does that. Want to make sure one of your complaining physicians was actually only stuck at the late outpatient center once last year instead of "every Friday" like he is claiming? This does that. Want to make sure call is shared equally, or divvied up by whatever amount you think is reasonable over a year? This does that. You can assign values to a shift and make sure the total value of shifts someone works is comparable to someone else at that same level. We were using it for "the big picture" and monthly scheduling, but we are now using it for daily OR assignments as well. It makes it a snap when one place has a room or two closed and the other place wants to open a room or two. Drop the names into the appropriate slot, press publish, and everyone automatically gets an email with the schedule and their own assignments for the next day.

 

[Hotsei]

There are tons of commercial programs that do what you want. Don't know if I'm supposed to recommend one openly, but PM me for info. Over 200 providers, 100 operating rooms scattered in about 18 locations, and we just added the capability to add students in addition to the doc and anesthetist assigned to each room. Most of these programs are easily scalable. I know small departments that use the same or similar programs. After an initial setup cost, there is an annual licensing fee, usually per user. Everyone can access their schedule 24/7 from any internet connection, works great on mobile devices, can do self-service swaps (with admin approval if desired) and a host of other statistical functions. Our program also does timekeeping, integrates with several different OR scheduling software platforms, and downloads necessary data directly to our payroll program. Many of these vendors will be at ASA in Chicago in a couple weeks. Again, if you want particulars, PM me.

What system is this?

 

[Hotsei]

I'm looking for a Excel or Google Docs program to simply make my daily OR schedule... I need to assign attendings and residents/CRNAs to by 20 anesthesia locations each day. I'd like to add rules regarding the number of ORs each attending can run (4) but not with a resident (2), etc... Anyone have a solution? I'm considering writing my own in Visual Basic, but that would require... effort.

Maybe take a look at Lightning Bolt? It may fit your needs and save you the hassle of making your own system...

 

[deleted126335]

The doc who has made the schedule for more than 10 years swears by QGENDA. Expensive though.

 

[pgg]

The doc who has made the schedule for more than 10 years swears by QGENDA. Expensive though.

Obscenely expensive

My fellowship institution used Qgenda for call assignmentns. But they still did monthly scheduling with Excel. And daily assignments in the EMR. It wasn't clear to me why they operated that way, but I was just there to do what I was told.