organ based vs. traditional curriculum

[bruinkid]

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hello everyone!
just wondering what your thoughts are on the 2 types of curriculum. does one prepare you for the boards better?

 

[Jalby]

I donno if that research has really been done. In my opinion, Organ Based should be better (You actually left out system based) because you learn stuff over two years that is tested on the boards rather than one year in tradition.

Another thing backing up my assertation:
Harvard is organ based
This next year UCLA is going from tradition to organ
last year U mich went from traditional to organ
2 years ago USC went from traditional to system

I have yet to hear of a single school changing their curriculum to a traditional curriculum

 

[Jaded Soul]

Every answer you'll get to this question will be biased simply because there aren't any med students who have been through both types of curricula.

Being at the end of the organ-based approach, I can tell you that it sucks realizing that I've forgotten almost everything about the systems I learned in the first year.

With the traditional system, all of second year is dependent on first year, so I'd expect that would force you to recall things along the way, rather than teaching everything to you about one system and never talking about it again.

 

[Team Zissou]

anyone one esle have thoughts of their own on this subject?

 

[osli]

Both systems have their merits. Our school is systems based, and the curriculum is fantastic. I've said in the past that whatever way your school teaches, you should review for boards using the other. Being on a systems based curriculum, I've found subject based review books to be very useful in filling in gaps in my knowledge, and from speaking to friends attending other schools the opposite is often just as true.

IMO, I think doing systems based first (in the curriculum) makes the most sense, because your knowledge based is founded more on understanding clinical application, and the interplay between physiology/biochemistry/pharmacology/pathology/etc. You have a great conceptual framework, and you know how all the pieces fit together even if you are a little fuzzy on the details of some of those pieces. You can then go back and review subject oriented details, and fit that into your knowledge framework. From the other approach, I would think it is a little more difficult to know a lot of detail about a lot of pieces, and then try to (on your own, usually) piece them together into a coherent working fund of knowledge. Not that it is by any means impossible, and I'm sure the quality of the school's education will have a huge impact on that as well. I'm sure there are some subject based schools that do a fantastic job of connecting the various disciplines.

 

[QofQuimica]

hello everyone!
just wondering what your thoughts are on the 2 types of curriculum. does one prepare you for the boards better?

Pick whichever kind of curriculum you think will be more amenable to *your* learning style. No curriculum will specifically prepare you for the boards; you go to medical school to learn how to be a doctor, not to learn how to pass the boards. Regardless of where we go to school and what kind of curriculum we have, all medical students across the country have to study for several weeks (months for some) for the boards. You will have to study for them no matter where you go to med school, too. Personally, I'm a huge advocate of picking whichever school is going to leave you in the least debt when you get out, assuming you don't think you'd be absolutely miserable there. to you. 🙂

 

[Maxprime]

Does anyone have any links/info comparing the two in detail?

 

[Jolie South]

I've noticed that most traditional schools have class from 9-5. I guess you don't have to go, but that's a lot of class.

I think I would benefit from half-day classes. I will probably be a "goer", so to me organ/systems based would be best. I get to do the auditory learning in a half day as well as have the time to study independently each day with time leftover for my husband and other stuff.

 

[Maxprime]

I've noticed that most traditional schools have class from 9-5. I guess you don't have to go, but that's a lot of class.

I think I would benefit from half-day classes. I will probably be a "goer", so to me organ/systems based would be best. I get to do the auditory learning in a half day as well as have the time to study independently each day with time leftover for my husband and other stuff.

How do systems based get away with less lecture time? I assume it's because you do more work out of the classroom?

 

[Jolie South]

How do systems based get away with less lecture time? I assume it's because you do more work out of the classroom?

I can only speak about Baylor because I talked about this in depth with a student, but she mentioned that the instructor goes over high yield stuff/big points in lecture. It's up to you to get to the details on your own.

 

[diosa428]

How do systems based get away with less lecture time? I assume it's because you do more work out of the classroom?

I don't really think that one typically has more or less lecture time than the other, it's more dependent on the school. And a lot of more "progressive" schools that are currently updating their curriculum are also cutting back on lecture time and filling that time with PBL and other activities.

As for my opinion, I honestly don't really think it matters. Our school covered everything by subject, and then again by system, and I'd have to say that my only opinion is that the repetition helped. On one hand, it was helpful to address all the diseases of an organ and be able to compare and contrast them. On the other hand, you'd often get sick of that organ really quickly and a lot of the details would start to mush together because a lot of the diseases had similar presentations. I think it's far more important to look at other aspects of the curriculum (how much time is spent in lecture, PBL, other activities, labs, whether or not all these things are mandatory, etc) rather than whether it is traditional or systems based.

 

[Crixivan]

All medical schools accredited in the United States have to cover the stuff on the USMLE in one order or another, and it all basically comes down to rote memorization of a very long list of facts.

You could have a school that offers courses such as biochemistry, embryology, histology, anataomy, physiology, pharmacology, pathophysiology, etc., and you would find that within each of those topics, the major organ systems are covered in some order. If you had a school that offers blocks such as cardiovascular, respiratory, gastrointestinal, you would find that within each block all of the diciplines would be covered in some order. Six in one hand, a half dozen in the other.

I personally think that the preclinical years are best designed just the way that First Aid is written if the step exams continue to maintain the current structure. Cover the basic sciences/principles in the first year with the stuff that is low yield for step I. Then turn second year into a systems-based pathophysiology/pharmacology sequence with the oncology, immunology, and infectious processes incorporated into each system.

 

[Heimerfink]

my school is organ based in the physio class, with anatomy running simultaneously (unsynchronized), and biochemistry then cell bio taking the third slot. i like having to think about different parts of the body in anatomy, then recalling things for histology, then thinking about that same part in biochem and eventually learning it in physiology. i feel like i learn it better because the repetition is more evident. rather than learning something deep then just getting rid of it all when the section is over.

 

[Vihsadas]

I donno if that research has really been done. In my opinion, Organ Based should be better (You actually left out system based) because you learn stuff over two years that is tested on the boards rather than one year in tradition.

Another thing backing up my assertation:
Harvard is organ based
This next year UCLA is going from tradition to organ
last year U mich went from traditional to organ
2 years ago USC went from traditional to system

I have yet to hear of a single school changing their curriculum to a traditional curriculum

A lot of schools are switching. Gtown is switching to the systems based curric this coming year too.

 

[Maxprime]

A lot of schools are switching. Gtown is switching to the systems based curric this coming year too.

There's no question that the trend is towards organ based. Just like switching away from cadavers, just because the administration does it doesn't mean that it's the right call.

 

[Skymastre]

Is 'systems based' different from PBL?

 

[Gut Shot]

My school's curriculum was organ-based, and I loved it.

To do two things at once is to do neither.
—Publilius Syrus, Roman slave, first century B.C.

 

[nevercold]

My school does normal anatomy/physiology for the whole body first, then pathology for the whole body. Each section of course goes system by system or organ by organ (I refuse to think "system-" and "organ-based" are different because disease processes affecting one organ often affect others, especially within the system that organ belongs to).

No matter what you do, you're getting hit with a HUUUUGE amount of information. More than you need to know for the USMLE Step 1 exam. Definitely more than you have a chance of remembering at the end of the basic science years. Here's a hint: Make sure you'll get a good framework for the information so that when you relearn it during clinical years and during study for Step 1, it'll fit in more easily.

Also, I recommend laying hands on a copy of First Aid for the USMLE Step 1 when you start medical school. It'll be updated of course by the time you get to the real exam, but it is useful for understanding how the licensing board expects you to think about the information. And while some people will say you shouldn't just rely on First Aid, I can assure you that for Step 1, if you know *every* single detail in First Aid you can get a 250.

 

[jeffsleepy]

Is 'systems based' different from PBL?

Yes, systems based vs. traditional is how they organize the information.

Lectures vs. PBL is how they teach it to you.

 

[45408]

And while some people will say you shouldn't just rely on First Aid, I can assure you that for Step 1, if you know *every* single detail in First Aid you can get a 250.

Just to clarify though - First Aid uses a lot of jargon and abbreviations that you really need to understand by using something much more in depth beforehand/simultaneously. If that weren't the case, we could all just throw out Robbins, Guyton, Netter, etc. But I do think it's not a bad idea to start using it early on, especially if you're at a systems-based school.