Organic Dairying

[breenie]

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So, I know some of you are interested in dairy/LA, and I know most of you have strong opinions on many things (😉), so I'd like to pose a topic for discussion.

What are your thoughts on organic dairy (and I suppose any other sort of animal ag-- beef, eggs, pork, etc)? I work at a farm that follows organic procedures and sells exclusively organic products (specifically cheese and eggs). I also work in a lab that does a lot of mastitis/milk quality research, and most of our staff are very wary of organic practices on dairy farms.

I see both sides. I usually withhold my own opinion, but I'm always interested to hear what other people think about it. Most veterinarians I've met find larger scale organic dairies a little troublesome and frustrating, but I don't have a huge sample size, so I'm not trying to imply what the veterinary profession thinks.

What are your thoughts?

 

[sumstorm]

We do an annual dairy/beef production trip each year. It generally includes at least one organic farm.

The one thing I can say definitivly is that organic does not equal humane. That is still driven by the producer and consumer. I do think individuals who have chosen to farm organic because of a 'personal value' (improve the environment, improve the quality of foods in the community, be green, etc) are more likely to treat their animals humanely than those who are doing it to make more $ or sell more product. I also think that rules out animals that aren't owned by an individual or small group of individuals. IE factory farming, or contract farming (such as poultry in general.)

We saw, on our last trip, an organic dairy that was very nice and very small, a huge organic dairy where most of the cows were lame (large production holsteins) and a 'conventional' farm where I would have wanted to live if I was the cow (family owned with 2 vets in the family, their own bottling plant, ice cream/cheese production, etc.)

I have heard vets gripe about organic...but the ones who work with private/family owners often say they have learned a massive amount of information, and are comfortable with the good/bad of treating organic animals. Those with a strong bent toward conventional medicine/production, are going to have issues and criticisms. I guess my philosophy, as a vet student, is that as a vet, I shouldn't knock it till I have tried it (and learned what I can about it.) The reality is that many of the conventional gripes are justified, BUT that is partly because there really isn't that much evidence to base medicine on.

 

[sunshinevet]

What are your thoughts on organic dairy (and I suppose any other sort of animal ag-- beef, eggs, pork, etc)?

I guess my biggest concern, is that just because its organic, doesnt mean its any less profit driven, and therefore just as heavily production driven. So i'd be really interested to know how they control acidosis and laminitis without use of virginamycin. (Obviously, there are nutritional changes you can make etc, but in a conventional dairy its usually used in conjunction with virginamycin to maximise use of energy dense foods and therefore increase milk output).

I mainly thought of this due to sumstorms comment about seeing one where pretty much all the cows were lame. I wonder if they are more likely to be lame and acidotic in an organic dairy?

 

[sumstorm]

I guess my biggest concern, is that just because its organic, doesnt mean its any less profit driven, and therefore just as heavily production driven. So i'd be really interested to know how they control acidosis and laminitis without use of virginamycin. (Obviously, there are nutritional changes you can make etc, but in a conventional dairy its usually used in conjunction with virginamycin to maximise use of energy dense foods and therefore increase milk output).

I mainly thought of this due to sumstorms comment about seeing one where pretty much all the cows were lame. I wonder if they are more likely to be lame and acidotic in an organic dairy?

the lameness was due to the housing. Inappropriate floors, and lack of bedding Also, in organic dairying, the production isn't as high as conventional. That is partly why jerseys are more common in organic and holsteins rare. I didn't meet any organic producers dealing w/acidosis (but they also fed less energy dense feeds.) also, there are still 'holistic' treatments that can be done.

 

[breenie]

Thanks for the replies. 🙂

Thoughts on mastitis? Organic farmers here (I know it's different in Europe) can't use antibiotics on their animals ever. At my lab job, my coworkers have commented that a common organic farm attitude is, "Well I can't treat those diseases anyway so I'm just going to ignore their existence and my animals don't have them la la la la la la la can't hear you!"

That's certainly not the attitude at the farm I work at, and mastitis cases aren't treated lightly because of the lack of treatment options. That's what frustrated the vet who comes out the to this farm-- he can't treat the way he would like to treat when things like that come up.

 

[laurafinn]

Thoughts on mastitis?

The rate of clinical and subclinical mastitis on a farm can be reduced through good management. Drugs are an important part of that on conventional farms, but even without drugs, you can address many causes of mastitis. You can ensure that milking machines are well-maintained -- excess vacuum pressure, incorrect pulsation rates, and bad liners can all cause problems. You can make sure that teat disinfection occurs after each milking -- this is huge -- usually you spray all 4 teats with a mixture of glycine and iodine. You can make sure that milkers aren't spreading infection from cow to cow by improving . You can make sure that cows are well-fed so that their immune system is functioning and they can maintain udder defense systems.

The same can be said of lameness in the herd. Good facilities and good management can reduce lameness. Drugs can be important, but prevention is number one. Cows affected by lameness can often be treated by paring their claws and putting a block on the good claw to keep the bad claw from bearing weight.

 

[aspiringDVM]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question: is vaccination of animals acceptable in organic farming?

 

[breenie]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question: is vaccination of animals acceptable in organic farming?

Yes. 🙂

 

[NStarz]

I thought 'organic' meant the non-use of antiobiotics, pesticides, herbicides, or fungicides in farming. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please 🙂

 

[breenie]

I thought 'organic' meant the non-use of antiobiotics, pesticides, herbicides, or fungicides in farming. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please 🙂

Yes... I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying, but I will reply to what I think you're saying? You can have organically "farmed" animals and animal food products as well. Organic beef, milk, cheese, yogurt, etc. are produced by feeding animals organic feeds and not using antibiotics and other things like that.

 

[NStarz]

Yes... I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying, but I will reply to what I think you're saying? You can have organically "farmed" animals and animal food products as well. Organic beef, milk, cheese, yogurt, etc. are produced by feeding animals organic feeds and not using antibiotics and other things like that.

That's basically what I meant, sorry for being so vague, I was on my phone 😉

Thanks for clarifying!