Original LOR

[Doowai]

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None of my LOR's are in compliance with all of ERAS rules : if they signed in blue ink its not on letterhead, if its on letterhead they signed in black ink etc. They are originals, but ddo not meet the criteria of originals set by ERAS. Even my most recent LORs: I have a LOR from the guy I did OB with,, that was done in Feb of this year - on color letterhead, but signed in black. So all will physically be stamped with COPY.

What would you do in such situation. Send a color copy since it is going to be marked COPY anyway, or send origiinals and let them be marked COPY.

 

[Femtochemistry]

bump

I am interested in a response as all my LOR were signed in BLACK ink and ERAS said it will mark them as COPY! Will this be looked down upon by PDs?


cheers

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I'm not sure that ERAS is quite as strict as they say they are. I don't remember many letters being stamped COPY last year. Since ERAS now has a return of document service, I'd send the originals and request them back. If it looks like an original except it's signed in black ink, there's a good chance they won't care. I could be totally wrong about that -- I don't work for ERAS/ECFMG.

 

[Femtochemistry]

I talked to the ERAS people...If it's signed in BLACK inked it AUTOMATICALLY gets stamped as COPY...no ifs or buts about it.


I hate having to ask people to reprint and sign them in blue ink...what a tool I look like 🙁

 

[deleted219479]

Where did you guys read about this rule? I haven't seen anything that mentions that on the Cover Sheet...

 

[5150]

Few more questions:

1) I recently gave a cover sheet to a letter writer. However, I've since modified his name on ERAS to show his middle initial, which was not present on the original cover letter i gave him. Does this matter at all?

2) Also when designating the letter writer position, do we just write "Associate Professor" or "Professor" or do we elaborate on that a bit more. For instance, one of my letter writers is the chief of FPRS at my institution, and if i write that in it leaves so space to include "professor." Which is the more important designation?

Thanks!

 

[climbingdocs]

What if I waved my rights to see the letter and I have no idea if they signed in black, blue or if they signed at all!!?

 

[subtle1epiphany]

What if I waved my rights to see the letter and I have no idea if they signed in black, blue or if they signed at all!!?

Seriously, same here. I didn't specifically mention this when requesting a letter, I'm actually considering asking my attendings about this and seeing if a reprint is possible.

 

[Law2Doc]

What if I waved my rights to see the letter and I have no idea if they signed in black, blue or if they signed at all!!?

Some schools give instructions to the LOR writers that include how they can return letters as pdf files. Plus they are presumably going to be scanned in to ERAS. So it's pretty obvious to me that ERAS isn't going to care about blue ink. From a legal point of view a true copy of a signature has the full legal impact of the original in most situations, so I'd think ERAS should be okay with that. Most business is transacted over faxes and pdfs these days anyhow.

 

[Law2Doc]

Seriously, same here. I didn't specifically mention this when requesting a letter, I'm actually considering asking my attendings about this and seeing if a reprint is possible.

I sure wouldn't.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Some schools give instructions to the LOR writers that include how they can return letters as pdf files. Plus they are presumably going to be scanned in to ERAS. So it's pretty obvious to me that ERAS isn't going to care about blue ink. From a legal point of view a true copy of a signature has the full legal impact of the original in most situations, so I'd think ERAS should be okay with that. Most business is transacted over faxes and pdfs these days anyhow.

It's not an ERAS issue. It's an ECFMG issue, and it's described here. Applicants applying from US schools using their own Dean's office for ERAS are not affected by this. I doubt PD's will care much either way, though, so I wouldn't get all upset about it. It would be a good idea to make this more clear in the cover letter, and to IMG's early in the season.

 

[euphio]

It's not an ERAS issue. It's an ECFMG issue, and it's described here. Applicants applying from US schools using their own Dean's office for ERAS are not affected by this. I doubt PD's will care much either way, though, so I wouldn't get all upset about it. It would be a good idea to make this more clear in the cover letter, and to IMG's early in the season.

Thanks for clearing that up - I was also trying to figure out where the heck that came from on the ERAS website...

 

[deleted219479]

Thanks aProgDirector, last thing I need right now is something more to stress over... 🙂

 

[rox]

I will be doing US electives soon as an international visiting student. I assume I will be asking the attendings for LOR's. According to the above discussion, I am now a bit confused about what I should ask them for. any help please?

Also, I can't seem to understand how ERAS usually receives the LOR's. Do I have to send them the original or scanned LOR's? And who does that usually, the applicant or the letter's writer?

P.S. I'm not applying to this match cycle, hopefully the one that follows...in case it makes a difference.

Thanks.

 

[Law2Doc]

Also, I can't seem to understand how ERAS usually receives the LOR's. Do I have to send them the original or scanned LOR's? And who does that usually, the applicant or the letter's writer?

Normally the student doesn't get custody of the letter, it gets forwarded directly to his Dean's office if he is a US student, and presumably directly to ERAS if he isn't.

 

[guillanbarre]

As an FMG, you would send your LORs or have them sent in by your referee to ECFMG-ERAS support services. They would then upload them to your account and make them available to the ERAS post office

 

[NotAProgDirector]

1. You ask the letter writer to write you a nice letter.
2. Make sure they put it on letterhead.
3. Make sure they sign it in non-black ink.
4. Theoretically, ECFMG wants the letter stamped with a seal. Personally, I think that's pretty ridiculous, and it's clear from their instructions that #1-3 is enough.
5. Check the rules next year, who knows what they'll have changed!

 

[rox]

Thanks for the useful input.

I found this form "IMG - Request for Letter of Recommendation/Cover Sheet" on http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/resources/downloads/2009lorcoverimg.pdf .

They say this form should be attached to the LOR with a paper clip. Anyway, I can't seem to understand so far what I should ask for as an international student from US attandings.

Ask them to write me LOR's(letterhead, non-black...etc) and forward it themselves to ERAS?

Again, my electives are in Nov-Dec 2008 and I'm not applying this cycle, so I won't have an ERAS account by the time of my electives. Do you suggest I sign up now, have them send the LOR's in Nov-Dec 2008 and then use them for 2009/2010 match?

Can't I get a hard copy anyways?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks for the useful input.

I found this form "IMG - Request for Letter of Recommendation/Cover Sheet" on http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/resources/downloads/2009lorcoverimg.pdf .

They say this form should be attached to the LOR with a paper clip. Anyway, I can't seem to understand so far what I should ask for as an international student from US attandings.

Ask them to write me LOR's(letterhead, non-black...etc) and forward it themselves to ERAS?

You ask for the letters to be sent to your "Dean's Office", which in the case of an IMG/FMG is ECFMG. ECFMG is supposed to be forwarding all of this stuff to ERAS along with your scores, etc.

Again, my electives are in Nov-Dec 2008 and I'm not applying this cycle, so I won't have an ERAS account by the time of my electives. Do you suggest I sign up now, have them send the LOR's in Nov-Dec 2008 and then use them for 2009/2010 match?

No. If you have your writers send them and you are not enrolled in ERAS, they will be discarded. I'm not sure what happens if you have them sent to ECFMG this early.

You can always explain to your letter writers that you are not applying this year and ask if they wouldn't mind writing a letter now while you are still fresh in their memory, and then having you contact them next year, so that a new date could be put on it and submitted at the proper time.

Can't I get a hard copy anyways?

You could, but presumably you will have signed the waiver to view your letters. If the copy comes from you rather than the letter writer it will be stamped COPY as noted above. What effect that has on your application is unknown.

 

[rox]

Thanks WS, big time.

You can always explain to your letter writers that you are not applying this year and ask if they wouldn't mind writing a letter now while you are still fresh in their memory, and then having you contact them next year, so that a new date could be put on it and submitted at the proper time.

Alright, now I know this will my best bet.

You could, but presumably you will have signed the waiver to view your letters. If the copy comes from you rather than the letter writer it will be stamped COPY as noted above. What effect that has on your application is unknown.

On what basis should I choose to sign it or not? Should I ask the letter writer about his/her preference? What's the idea behind it anyways?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

On what basis should I choose to sign it or not? Should I ask the letter writer about his/her preference? What's the idea behind it anyways?

The idea is that if you waive your right, then the letter writer will be "more free" to speak the truth. Honestly, I expect your letter will be the same either way. Given your timeline, I'd suggest getting the letters now mailed to you, and hence do not waive your right to see them. Imagine the disaster if your letter writers move, or become ill, or something else happens to them a year from now and you can't get your letter. Or, they could simply put off writing the letter, and then next year not really remember you and write a bland letter. Safest thing to do is get your letters now, and hold onto them until next year.

 

[rox]

Given your timeline, I'd suggest getting the letters now mailed to you, and hence do not waive your right to see them. Imagine the disaster if your letter writers move, or become ill, or something else happens to them a year from now and you can't get your letter. Or, they could simply put off writing the letter, and then next year not really remember you and write a bland letter. Safest thing to do is get your letters now, and hold onto them until next year.

I have also though of that risky situation and I'm glad you pointed it out.

So now I'm thinking to do the following: explain the situation, ask them to mail the letters and try to keep a copy. I will then contact then next year and see if they can send a new copy to ECFMG. In case they have forgot me/lost the copy they have(which is possible), I will scan and e-mail them the copy they gave me so that they can write a similar one. Not such a comfortable plan, but at least safe.

Thanks.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

...or simply send your original to ECFMG yourself, which is fine.

 

[rox]

...or simply send your original to ECFMG yourself, which is fine.

Oh really? I thought the letter writer should send it. So I guess I will ask for the letters to be mailed to me, then I will send them to ECFMG myself next year. Thanks everybody.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Oh really? I thought the letter writer should send it. So I guess I will ask for the letters to be mailed to me, then I will send them to ECFMG myself next year. Thanks everybody.

You can't waive your right to read the letter if you do this, but at least you have control of it.

 

[rox]

Among the available options, this seams to be the most appropriate one. Thanks.